ARE THERE ANY FULL GOSPEL BELIEVERS IN THE HYPERPAULINE MOVEMENT?

[Psalm1]

Why do those who claim they speak in tongues call themselves full gospel implying that the rest of us do not preach the full gospel?
Seems very misleading to me.

If I had not the opportunity to get saved in a full gospel church , then I would most likely agree.

The disciples saw what they saw.
I have seen what I have seen.

Miracles, tongues, prophecy, that I not only saw, but EXPERIECED supernaturally.

Once a believer receives the Baptism in the Holy Spirit, the walk becomes an adventure.

 

[Psalm1]

I am hyperGW, I named my son after Paul, I believe creation is the primary supernatural miracle or sign (Rom. 1:20),
I believe the true gift of tongues in Acts was not mere babbling, I believe Paul wrote in 1 Cor. 13 that tongues would cease
while love (the primary sign of Spirit-fullness = the full Gospel per Paul's prayer in Eph. 3) would continue, and
I have never known someone who spoke an earthly language they had not learned.

Thus, it is correct to believe that no one has the gift of performing miracles,
although God does so per what the Bible teaches.

It is "babbling" according to Paul.

Why did they need an interpreter?
Why did Paul say "my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful"?

Why did Paul say " when in an assembly I would rather pray 3 words in the understanding than 100 words in tongues, because the assembly will not understand"

Why does Chinese language sound like gibberish?
Maybe Chinese is fake.

 

[homwardbound]

From those responding, and my own experience, it does seem like most hyperpaulines are cessationist.

Labels, labels, labels
For, each person learns or does not learn in their own ways.
And God knows best for each, once I turned to God to learn from God personally, everything changed in and through me, and has been ever since, what an amazing love from God to us all, thanks

 

[Cameron143]

Why do those who claim they speak in tongues call themselves full gospel implying that the rest of us do not preach the full gospel?
Seems very misleading to me.

The term "full gospel" just means they believe all the gifts of the Spirit are operational in the church today.

 

[Psalm1]

Labels, labels, labels
For, each person learns or does not learn in their own ways.
And God knows best for each, once I turned to God to learn from God personally, everything changed in and through me, and has been ever since, what an amazing love from God to us all, thanks

Yep.
Experience mostly comes before Revelation or knowledge.
It can happen in reverse.

But my experience, if from God, will always be AUTHENTICATED in the word.

Thank God for his hands on approach to us.

Otherwise it is abstract, theory, and labels.

 

[presidente]

Over the last 3 or 4 years, i have noticed this hyperpauline movement is taking hold, in ministries and believers.
I have also noticed that season Saints readily see the error of it, and point out those errors to no avail.

So far, in the ones that I have encountered every single one of them is a cessationist.
They incorrectly believe that all miracles, signs, and wonders, in spite of what the Bible says, have ceased.
And God has a "gone fishing" sign on that particular window.

Are there any hyperpaulines that are also full gospel in their position?

HyperPauline? I call it hyperdispensatoinalism if it's what I'm thinking about.

They'll say that Paul had a different Gospel from the 12, that Jesus and the 12 apostles taught a works based Gospel and Paul's was the gospel of grace. Some oppose water baptism.

Pentecostals tend not to be once-saved-always-saved. Charismatics can go either way. Their theology tends to align with once-saved-always-saved in that their emphasis on grace the way they emphasize it may not fit with the idea of obedience as a necessary characteristic of a saved believer.

They may also have their own 'strong culture' with a narrow set of beliefs.

 

[Inquisitor]

The term "full gospel" just means they believe all the gifts of the Spirit are operational in the church today.

Which is what the N.T. tells us.

 

[kqr_anointed]

Demons love to watch

 

[Inquisitor]

HyperPauline? I call it hyperdispensatoinalism if it's what I'm thinking about.

They'll say that Paul had a different Gospel from the 12, that Jesus and the 12 apostles taught a works based Gospel and Paul's was the gospel of grace. Some oppose water baptism.

Pentecostals tend not to be once-saved-always-saved. Charismatics can go either way. Their theology tends to align with once-saved-always-saved in that their emphasis on grace the way they emphasize it may not fit with the idea of obedience as a necessary characteristic of a saved believer.

They may also have their own 'strong culture' with a narrow set of beliefs.

Go to an independent church there is no label for these churches.

Paul simply listed the doctrines of the church which the other authors did not.

On baptism.

John the Baptist repeatedly stated that he baptized with water, but the one who was coming after him would
"baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire" (Matthew 3:11; Mark 1:8; Luke 3:16; John 1:33).

I can see the tension that exists between so many church organizations regarding baptism.

There is even a church named after the ritual of baptism.

Jesus never baptized because that duty would be left to the Holy Spirit.

1 Corinthians 14:1-2
Pursue love, yet desire earnestly spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy.
For one who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God; for no one understands,
but in his spirit he speaks mysteries.

That is called babbling by some.

That is how you speak to Jesus.

Tongues occur when your in prayer to Jesus and that is called praying in the Spirit.

 

[Psalm1]

HyperPauline? I call it hyperdispensatoinalism if it's what I'm thinking about.

They'll say that Paul had a different Gospel from the 12, that Jesus and the 12 apostles taught a works based Gospel and Paul's was the gospel of grace. Some oppose water baptism.

Pentecostals tend not to be once-saved-always-saved. Charismatics can go either way. Their theology tends to align with once-saved-always-saved in that their emphasis on grace the way they emphasize it may not fit with the idea of obedience as a necessary characteristic of a saved believer.

They may also have their own 'strong culture' with a narrow set of beliefs.

None of them taught a works based gospel
None of them

 

[Cameron143]

Which is what the N.T. tells us.

No argument here. I was simply explaining the meaning of the term.

 

[TabinRivCA]

I am hyperGW, I named my son after Paul, I believe creation is the primary supernatural miracle or sign (Rom. 1:20),
I believe the true gift of tongues in Acts was not mere babbling, I believe Paul wrote in 1 Cor. 13 that tongues would cease
while love (the primary sign of Spirit-fullness = the full Gospel per Paul's prayer in Eph. 3) would continue, and
I have never known someone who spoke an earthly language they had not learned.

Thus, it is correct to believe that no one has the gift of performing miracles,
although God does so per what the Bible teaches.

John 14:12. In this verse, Jesus states, "Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father". This promise is extended to all who believe in him, not just the apostles
Acts 19:6
6 When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied.
Mark 16:17
17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues;
1 Corinthians 14:2
2 For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to people but to God. Indeed, no one understands them; they utter mysteries by the Spirit.

 

[Inquisitor]

None of them taught a works based gospel
None of them

To this day I have never heard any Christian proposing a works based gospel.

Where I experience difficulty is after Ephesians 2:8-9. We have to walk in the Spirit.

Which means we must produce the fruit of the Holy Spirit!

How love and faith are entwined in Paul's letters is interesting.

I asked AI to quote some verses on this relationship.

Paul uses a clause, "faith and love", a lot across his letters. Can you print each occurrence? Please note, the clause is not the exact clause in every letter. Sometimes Paul leaves out faith for example but still states faith and love. It is interesting that Paul places so much stress on that love. Paul knows if a church is becoming stronger if faith and love are growing.

AI said:

That’s a very insightful observation. You’re right—Paul often pairs faith and love (sometimes with hope included, sometimes just the two), and it is one of his key markers for genuine Christian life and maturity. He rarely ever praises a church for knowledge, miracles, or organization—but repeatedly for their faith and love.
Here are the main occurrences across Paul’s letters (using N.T. only, and I’ll include where he uses the pair directly or closely):
Direct Pairings of “Faith and Love”

• 1 Thessalonians 3:6 – “Timothy has just now come to us from you and has brought good news about your faith and love.”
• Ephesians 1:15 – “Ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all God’s people.”
• Colossians 1:4 – “…because we have heard of your faith in Christ Jesus and of the love you have for all God’s people.”
• 1 Timothy 1:14 – “The grace of our Lord was poured out on me abundantly, along with the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus.”
• 1 Timothy 1:5 – “The goal of this command is love, which comes from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith.”
• 1 Timothy 6:11 – “…pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, endurance and gentleness.”
• 2 Timothy 1:13 – “What you heard from me, keep as the pattern of sound teaching, with faith and love in Christ Jesus.”
• 2 Timothy 2:22 – “…pursue righteousness, faith, love and peace, along with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart.”
• Titus 2:2 – “Teach the older men to be temperate, worthy of respect, self-controlled, and sound in faith, in love and in endurance.”

Faith, Love, and Hope (the Trio)

• 1 Thessalonians 1:3 – “We remember before our God and Father your work produced by faith, your labor prompted by love, and your endurance inspired by hope in our Lord Jesus Christ.”
• Colossians 1:4–5 – “…we have heard of your faith in Christ Jesus and the love you have for all God’s people—because of the hope stored up for you in heaven…”
• 1 Corinthians 13:13 – “And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.”
• Galatians 5:5–6 – “For through the Spirit we eagerly await by faith the righteousness for which we hope. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.”

Faith or Love Highlighted Separately but Linked

• Galatians 5:22 – “But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness…”
• Ephesians 3:17 – “…so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith. And I pray that you, being rooted and established in love…”
• 1 Thessalonians 5:8 – “But since we belong to the day, let us be sober, putting on faith and love as a breastplate, and the hope of salvation as a helmet.”

Summary:
Paul really does measure the vitality of churches by faith and love. These are his “thermometers” for spiritual life. Knowledge can puff up, gifts can divide, but faith and love build up (cf. Gal. 5:6). And as you noted, love is the crown—even above faith and hope.

 

[GWH]

John 14:12. In this verse, Jesus states, "Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father". This promise is extended to all who believe in him, not just the apostles
Acts 19:6
6 When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied.
Mark 16:17
17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues;
1 Corinthians 14:2
2 For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to people but to God. Indeed, no one understands them; they utter mysteries by the Spirit.

Jesus taught that his righteousness (Matt. 5:10&20) surpassed and superseded that of those who obeyed and taught the law
(cf. Matt. 12:5-12, 19:3-9, Heb. 7:18-10:1). The law is represented by John the Baptist in Matt. 3:11a, “I baptize you with water [WB] for repentance” [forgiveness of sins indicated in the Torah, cf. Rom. 7:4-8:17], and Spirit baptism (SB) is indicated in Matt. 3:11b, “but after me will come one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not fit to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.”

However, some people (“Actsers”) focus on events in Acts such as WB and glossolalia rather than on teachings in the epistles about faith/SB being what is essential (“Faithers”). The book of Acts does not teach foundational Christian doctrine but merely records what occurred during the early days of the church era as the revelation of GRFS transitioned from OT beliefs to the NT doctrine that is taught in the epistles, which never command WB or tongues as signs of SB or as essential for salvation.

By the last of Paul’s epistles, WB came to be understood as a good but non-essential work or rite, like physical circumcision, and the basis for believing folks are filled with the HS is reflecting God’s love for everyone (Matt. 22:37-40, 1John 4:7-21, John 13:35, Rom. 5:5, Gal. 5:6 & 22, etc.). Then, like now, the rite is performed as an apt way of portraying saving faith in the atonement of Christ, even though the work is not required, just as physical circumcision was not required for salvation either per Paul in Romans 3:21-5:1.

Regarding speaking in tongues, the original occurrence at Pentecost (in Acts 2:4-11) and for awhile longer was earthly languages given as a sign that fulfilled Joel 2:28-32 (cf. Isa. 28:11-12 cited in 1Cor.14:21), which reversed Babel and evangelized 3,000 people, thereby ensuring the planting of the first Christian church, but by the time of its occurrence in the church at Corinth it had morphed into a faux gift of mere babbling, which Paul tried to quash tactfully (1Cor. 14:19, possibly because pagan religions practiced it), writing that the gift would cease (1Cor. 13:8-13), so one should not be myopic and focus only on a problematic proof-text (1Cor. 14:18), ignoring the absence of affirming tongues in other Pauline epistles.

 

[Psalm1]

Jesus taught that his righteousness (Matt. 5:10&20) surpassed and superseded that of those who obeyed and taught the law
(cf. Matt. 12:5-12, 19:3-9, Heb. 7:18-10:1). The law is represented by John the Baptist in Matt. 3:11a, “I baptize you with water [WB] for repentance” [forgiveness of sins indicated in the Torah, cf. Rom. 7:4-8:17], and Spirit baptism (SB) is indicated in Matt. 3:11b, “but after me will come one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not fit to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.”

However, some people (“Actsers”) focus on events in Acts such as WB and glossolalia rather than on teachings in the epistles about faith/SB being what is essential (“Faithers”). The book of Acts does not teach foundational Christian doctrine but merely records what occurred during the early days of the church era as the revelation of GRFS transitioned from OT beliefs to the NT doctrine that is taught in the epistles, which never command WB or tongues as signs of SB or as essential for salvation.

By the last of Paul’s epistles, WB came to be understood as a good but non-essential work or rite, like physical circumcision, and the basis for believing folks are filled with the HS is reflecting God’s love for everyone (Matt. 22:37-40, 1John 4:7-21, John 13:35, Rom. 5:5, Gal. 5:6 & 22, etc.). Then, like now, the rite is performed as an apt way of portraying saving faith in the atonement of Christ, even though the work is not required, just as physical circumcision was not required for salvation either per Paul in Romans 3:21-5:1.

Regarding speaking in tongues, the original occurrence at Pentecost (in Acts 2:4-11) and for awhile longer was earthly languages given as a sign that fulfilled Joel 2:28-32 (cf. Isa. 28:11-12 cited in 1Cor.14:21), which reversed Babel and evangelized 3,000 people, thereby ensuring the planting of the first Christian church, but by the time of its occurrence in the church at Corinth it had morphed into a faux gift of mere babbling, which Paul tried to quash tactfully (1Cor. 14:19, possibly because pagan religions practiced it), writing that the gift would cease (1Cor. 13:8-13), so one should not be myopic and focus only on a problematic proof-text (1Cor. 14:18), ignoring the absence of affirming tongues in other Pauline epistles.

To the rest of the world Chinese sounds like babble.
To baptists, speaking in tongues sounds like babble.
Therefore Chinese is not a valid language.


Your problem is your tiny box you have crammed God into.

Your limited experience has God As limited.

Us baptists never ever raise the dead.
Therefore God is not allowed to operate in miracles around our church.

Really sad to put that straight jacket on God.

 

[Psalm1]

The cessationist says that the actual tongues spoken of by Paul and we read in the book of acts, is actually known languages that they were able supernaturally to speak for evangelism purposes
That's what those people will tell us.
So let's play that out.
Some evangelist Goes to Russia.
He is given, by the Spirit, the ability to evangelize in the Russian language.( he does not know a word of the Russian language)
So far, so good, the cessationist is believed..
Their preconceived notion is standing strong.
And their doctrine limiting God, that tongues is just the ability to know another language sounds totally plausible, even though they are just guessing at it.
But then we read the Bible.
And we have a problem.
because it says there must be a interpreter present.
So now the whole deal completely falls apart.
Because I'm speaking Russian supernaturally to a bunch of Russians.
But I need an interpreter?
Paul forbids tongues in the assembly absent an interpreter.
Oooooops......That pesky doctrine destroying bible!!!!!
Ahem....Russians being preached to in Russian language, DO NOT NEED AN INTERPRETER.
So this is the problem with guessing and "logical mental believers", taking their limited experience, and "straightening out the bible".. Because the Holy Spirit is way ahead of you modifiers.

 

[NightTwister]

I always wonder, what will the cessationist do when they need a miracle.
They dump faith by declaring GOD powerless.
Then when they need a miracle they have that starting place with God as the Pharisees had.
No faith.

Just sad.

Cessationists don't believe God is powerless and can't perform miracles. They just believe God normally works through ordinary means now.

 

[Psalm1]

Jesus taught that his righteousness (Matt. 5:10&20) surpassed and superseded that of those who obeyed and taught the law
(cf. Matt. 12:5-12, 19:3-9, Heb. 7:18-10:1). The law is represented by John the Baptist in Matt. 3:11a, “I baptize you with water [WB] for repentance” [forgiveness of sins indicated in the Torah, cf. Rom. 7:4-8:17], and Spirit baptism (SB) is indicated in Matt. 3:11b, “but after me will come one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not fit to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.”

However, some people (“Actsers”) focus on events in Acts such as WB and glossolalia rather than on teachings in the epistles about faith/SB being what is essential (“Faithers”). The book of Acts does not teach foundational Christian doctrine but merely records what occurred during the early days of the church era as the revelation of GRFS transitioned from OT beliefs to the NT doctrine that is taught in the epistles, which never command WB or tongues as signs of SB or as essential for salvation.

By the last of Paul’s epistles, WB came to be understood as a good but non-essential work or rite, like physical circumcision, and the basis for believing folks are filled with the HS is reflecting God’s love for everyone (Matt. 22:37-40, 1John 4:7-21, John 13:35, Rom. 5:5, Gal. 5:6 & 22, etc.). Then, like now, the rite is performed as an apt way of portraying saving faith in the atonement of Christ, even though the work is not required, just as physical circumcision was not required for salvation either per Paul in Romans 3:21-5:1.

Regarding speaking in tongues, the original occurrence at Pentecost (in Acts 2:4-11) and for awhile longer was earthly languages given as a sign that fulfilled Joel 2:28-32 (cf. Isa. 28:11-12 cited in 1Cor.14:21), which reversed Babel and evangelized 3,000 people, thereby ensuring the planting of the first Christian church, but by the time of its occurrence in the church at Corinth it had morphed into a faux gift of mere babbling, which Paul tried to quash tactfully (1Cor. 14:19, possibly because pagan religions practiced it), writing that the gift would cease (1Cor. 13:8-13), so one should not be myopic and focus only on a problematic proof-text (1Cor. 14:18), ignoring the absence of affirming tongues in other Pauline epistles.

QUOTE
"" speaking in tongues, the original occurrence at Pentecost (in Acts 2:4-11) and for awhile longer was earthly languages given as a sign that fulfilled Joel 2:28-32 (cf. Isa. 28:11-12 cited in 1Cor.14:21), which reversed Babel and evangelized 3,000 people, thereby ensuring the planting of the first Christian church, but by the time of its occurrence in the church at Corinth it had morphed into a faux gift of mere babbling, which Paul tried to quash tactfully (1Cor. 14:19, possibly because pagan religions practiced it), writing that the gift would cease (1Cor. 13:8-13), so one should not be myopic and focus only on a problematic proof-text (1Cor. 14:18), ignoring the absence of affirming tongues in other Pauline epistles.""

Do a study on it.
You are way way off.
Paul, who spoke in tongues "More than any of you" wrote 2/3 of tge epistles.
Paul said " when I speak in tongues my SPIRIT PRAYS, BUT MY MIND IS UNFRUITFUL."
" HE THAT SPEAKS in an unknown tongue edifies himself"

Paul said he prayed " with groaning too deep to utter"

Paul said " I will pray with the understanding and with the spirit"
Paul said : "I will sing in the spirit and sing in the understanding also".

ALL GODS POWER IS HERE TODAY!!!!!!
JESUS IS ALIVE AND WELL.

God is still on the throne.
Backslidden men say God quit, and the entire deal is mental and logic.( No power)

They told David that.
He went on to show them God's miracle working power that they had no idea about.
Natural fearful mental men vs Those that get the power available.

Jettison that powerless mess and get with those believers that operate in the power.

 

[Psalm1]

Cessationists don't believe God is powerless and can't perform miracles. They just believe God normally works through ordinary means now.

Yes ordinary men living now in the same power as the early church of acts.

Look up David Hogan.
Hundreds raised from the dead.

Ordinary modern men, anointed as were the ordinary men in the book of acts.

 

[lrs68]

Demons love to watch

Are they being entertained by your version of the Bible?