GOD'S WORD vs. man's opinion like GWHs.

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Again Mr Groovy, here is a question for you:

Why do you ask for proof you said tongues are just babbling and then totally ignore my response to your request when I give you undeniable proof you do say that and did say that, by quoting your post in which you do say that. Frankly, I don't even know how this thread got to the subject of 'tongues' but you had to comment on them anyway.

crickets.gif

Are you SIT? I see no Q.
It sounds like you should read the thread, so you can ask a coherent Q.
You're trolling me, right?
 
I praise God and credit His Spirit for everything I have learned during my 75 years and now believe,
and I must obey my heavenly Father rather than you regarding sharing what He has taught me.
(Acts 5:29, 1Tim. 1:3-7&17)

What command is it you think I gave you to obey? Are you feeling ok?
 
Here's a question. Why do you ask for proof you said tongues are just babbling and then totally ignore my response to your request when I give you undeniable proof you do say that and did say that, by quoting your post in which you do say that. Frankly, I don't even know how this thread got to the subject of 'tongues' but you had to comment on them anyway.

It's at least 3 possibly 4 times I have asked the same question. I am positive that God did not teach you to pretend no question was asked.

Here is another question: Why do you act like other people are lying to you when everyone can read what is said? You are helping yourself.

Oh and another one. Do you deny saying tongues are babbling?
 
And by the way, regarding truthseeking, a reason I am confident and bet my belief is better than some others is because I amend my belief as soon as I encounter new truth, and I have amended our website numerous times as the result of discussions on CC.
For example, as a result of discussions with tulipists I added this to the second paragraph in Lesson 2 on The Christian Creed:

"or how to satisfy God’s condition for forgiveness of sins that is indicated in Scripture by the word “IF” (e.g., Rom. 10:9), which is the fulcrum of faith, implying the ability either to cooperate with God or not (e.g., Deut. 30:19, Matt. 23:37) or MFW. Note that the choice is binary: God’s Way to heaven or the highway to hell."

I also added Lesson 11 on Systematic Scripture Study to the website with a section on election, because I travel in Baptist, Independent Bible and Conservative Methodist churches and had never had extensive interaction with tulipists before joining CC. Currently In Lesson 11 I am in the process of doing a study of the Didache and also of Ephesians.

Also before CC I had never encountered folks who believed WB was essential for salvation, because the denominations I cited view it as symbolic. Similarly, I had little interaction with those who believe SIT is the sign of salvation, although I had read about them. My encounters of this kind led me to add this to Part VI of Lesson 2:

Paul warned Christians to beware of Judaizers, who revert to teaching justification by observing the law (Gal. 4:8-5:12). In Phil. 3:1-9 Paul said, “Finally, my brothers, rejoice in the Lord!… Watch out for those… mutilators of the flesh. For it is we who are the circumcision [cf. Rom. 2:29]… If anyone else thinks he has reasons to put confidence in the flesh, I have more:… in regard to the law, a Pharisee… as for legalistic righteousness, faultless. But whatever was to my profit I now consider loss for the sake of Christ… I consider them rubbish, that I may gain Christ and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ–that comes from God and is by faith.”

Jesus taught that his righteousness (Matt. 5:10&20) surpassed and superseded that of those who obeyed and taught the law (cf. Matt. 12:5-12, 19:3-9, Heb. 7:18-10:1). The law is represented by John the Baptist in Matt. 3:11a, “I baptize you with water [WB] for repentance” [forgiveness of sins indicated in the Torah, cf. Rom. 7:4-8:17], and Spirit baptism (SB) is indicated in Matt. 3:11b, “but after me will come one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not fit to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.”

However, some people (“Actsers”) focus on events in Acts such as WB and glossolalia rather than on teachings in the epistles about faith/SB being what is essential (“Faithers”). The book of Acts does not teach foundational Christian doctrine but merely records what occurred during the early days of the church era as the revelation of GRFS transitioned from OT beliefs to the NT doctrine that is taught in the epistles, which never command WB or tongues as signs of SB or as essential for salvation.

By the last of Paul’s epistles, WB came to be understood as a good but non-essential work or rite, like physical circumcision, and the basis for believing folks are filled with the HS is reflecting God’s love for everyone (Matt. 22:37-40, 1John 4:7-21, John 13:35, Rom. 5:5, Gal. 5:6 & 22, etc.). Then, like now, the rite is performed as an apt way of portraying saving faith in the atonement of Christ, even though the work is not required, just as physical circumcision was not required for salvation either per Paul in Romans 3:21-5:1.

Regarding speaking in tongues, the original occurrence at Pentecost (in Acts 2:4-11) and for awhile longer was earthly languages given as a sign that fulfilled Joel 2:28-32 (cf. Isa. 28:11-12 cited in 1Cor.14:21), which reversed Babel and evangelized 3,000 people, thereby ensuring the planting of the first Christian church, but by the time of its occurrence in the church at Corinth it had morphed into a faux gift of mere babbling, which Paul tried to quash tactfully (1Cor. 14:19, possibly because pagan religions practiced it), writing that the gift would cease (1Cor. 13:8-13), so one should not be myopic and focus only on a problematic proof-text (1Cor. 14:18), ignoring the absence of affirming tongues in other Pauline epistles.

Needless to say, in the circles I travelled I had never been hated or persecuted by supposed fellow Christians as I am now on CC by those who vilify me and demean my beliefs, which is why I have been adding 1Cor. 4:2-5 and Matt. 5:10-12 to some posts. Quite an eye opener and education I have received at this late stage of my life!

The ability to alter the way you understand the N.T. is a necessary attribute in the Christian life.

And by the way, regarding truthseeking, a reason I am confident and bet my belief is better than some others is because I amend my belief as soon as I encounter new truth, and I have amended our website numerous times as the result of discussions on CC.
Well done.

The only way to be saved is as you stated Romans 10:9.

But wait there's more.

Ephesians 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God.

Always by GRACE first and that grace is channeled through faith in Jesus.

Your understanding of the fulfillment of John's water baptism with the spiritual baptism by Jesus.
Is also correct and the book of Acts is not a place in the scripture to develop doctrine on baptism.

Your incorrect on the gifts of the Holy Spirit and the gifts are themselves the Lord's commandment.

1 Corinthians 14:37
If anyone thinks he is a prophet or spiritual, let him recognize that the things which I write to you
are the Lord’s commandment
.

Do not reach the end of your life in disobedience to the Lord's commandment.
 
Those who gaslight others, have a desire to control others. Gaslighting is a form of psychological manipulation (and even abuse in close relationships) . It seems Mr Groovy is attempting to convince us that I did not ask him a question and becoming self righteous about it by saying he praises God for everything he has learned.

Excuse me, but gaslighting is not good from anyone and certainly not from someone who believes he needs to teach everyone here what he views as God's truth. I don't find any of that funny as claiming to be a teacher actually puts a person at greater judgement from God.

I guess we can all do what we will with his responses and lack of ability to be honest about a discussion or the many questions that have been asked of him that he denies he has seen. This is a forum and he can represent himself any way he wants; but that does not mean we have to deny what is true just because he keeps pulling the same tired rabbit out of a hat
 
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Here's a question. Why do you ask for proof you said tongues are just babbling and then totally ignore my response to your request when I give you undeniable proof you do say that and did say that, by quoting your post in which you do say that. Frankly, I don't even know how this thread got to the subject of 'tongues' but you had to comment on them anyway.

It's at least 3 possibly 4 times I have asked the same question. I am positive that God did not teach you to pretend no question was asked.

Here is another question: Why do you act like other people are lying to you when everyone can read what is said? You are helping yourself.

Oh and another one. Do you deny saying tongues are babbling?

If you asked a coherent question, I missed it.
I do not act like people are lying; you have me confused with Ouch.
I say pagans babble, so I am unimpressed by the claim such is genuine SIT, which was earthly languages in Acts 2.

As I told Blain today on another thread: I agree that the gift of discernment is key for not being deceived by false claims
regarding the gift of healing. Forewarned (Matthew 24:4-24) is forearmed.
 
For the umpteenth time, no matter how long you persist in kicking against the goad, the problem is your Pope complex that refuses to acknowledge the fact that most Christians disagree with your opinion.

Most Christians?

Christians ageee with someone who just shares HIS word.

So called Christins don't.

I HAVE NEVER SHARED MY OPPINON.

So who is Pope like? Yep the one calling others Pope like.

YOUR THE ONE WHO CHANGE HIS WORD, YOU THE ONE WHO IS DOING THE BLASPHEMY.
 
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If you asked a coherent question, I missed it.
I do not act like people are lying; you have me confused with Ouch.
I say pagans babble, so I am unimpressed by the claim such is genuine SIT, which was earthly languages in Acts 2.

As I told Blain today on another thread: I agree that the gift of discernment is key for not being deceived by false claims
regarding the gift of healing. Forewarned (Matthew 24:4-24) is forearmed.

FYI, I called you a liar because your a liar.

It's not an act, you do it on purpose.
 
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Most Christians?

Christians ageee with someone who just shares HIS word.

So called Christins don't.

I HAVE NEVER SHARED MY OPPINON.

So who is Pope like? Yep the one calling others Pope like.

YOUR THE ONE WHO CHANGE HIS WORD, YOU THE ONE WHO IS DOING THE BLASPHEMY.

This entire post #288 (& 289) is your opinion!
IMO you R nutso!
 
If you asked a coherent question, I missed it.
I do not act like people are lying; you have me confused with Ouch.
I say pagans babble, so I am unimpressed by the claim such is genuine SIT, which was earthly languages in Acts 2.

As I told Blain today on another thread: I agree that the gift of discernment is key for not being deceived by false claims
regarding the gift of healing. Forewarned (Matthew 24:4-24) is forearmed.

I understand you are 75 as you said. That becomes a problem for some people. I don't know you in person, but with the responses you give and the denial, I would say you could possibly be experiencing some kind of geriatric confusion. I don't know that for a fact of course, but your responses do indicate a problem of some sort. I am sure you could not possibly be lying as much as it appears you are lying, but you might want to get things checked out. As you say you are a Christian, you might want to understand why you giving such strange answers
 
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I understand you are 75 as you said. That becomes a problem for some people. I don't know you in person, but with the responses you give and the denial, I would say you could possibly be experiencing some kind of geriatric confusion. I don't know that for a fact of course, but your responses do indicate a problem of some sort. I am sure you could not possibly be lying as much as it appears you are lying, but you might want to get things checked out. As you say you are a Christian, you might want to understand why you giving such strange answers

I am quite confident that the majority of Christians think YOUR views are problematic,
but I wrote most of my views when I was much younger and less senile.
 
That is exactly the question/issue!

I guess the difference it sometimes pagans do and sometimes Christians do it, but it is the same thing.

It is recognized as "ecstatic utterances."

It is a learned behaviour.
 
So far I have share my understanding of GW regarding witnessing to atheists, God's requirement for salvation, the teachings of Jesus and Paul, key OT teachings, the history of beliefs, and the controversial issue of abortion. Now I will introduce the didache, which are doctrines that build on the essential Gospel. Hebrews 6:1-3 indicates that Christians should not only learn the Gospel or God’s requirement for salvation (which may be signified by the Greek word for preaching, kerygma) but also go on to learning teachings that will lead to moral maturity (which may be distinguished by use of the Greek word for teaching, didache), and “God permitting”, this study will discuss didachaic doctrines that will build on the kerygmatic foundation–being careful how we build (1Cor. 3:10-11)–and lead believers to become blameless in practice as well as because of forgiveness in Christ (Eph. 1:4-7).

Perhaps we should note that although the didache is not most important or necessary to know/believe in order to be saved, it is very important and requisite for becoming spiritually mature, The distinction between kerygma/saving faith and didache/sanctifying faith was made by Jesus when He commissioned His disciples (Matt. 28:19-20). The kerygma is indicated by verse 19, “Therefore go and make disciples of all nations”, and the didache is implicit in verse 20, “teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you.” It is the “all truth” that is taught by the Spirit referred to in John 16:13. The distinction is made also in 2Tim. 3:15-17 and 1 Cor. 3:10-15.

As the didache is studied with the aim of achieving moral maturity, one should not think that it will be perfectly attained during this earthly sojourn, because Paul said (in Phil. 3:12-14), “Not that I have already… been made perfect, but I press on… toward the goal… for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus”. Paul went on to condemn those who “live as enemies of the cross of Christ… whose destiny is destruction” (Phil. 18b-19a). Thus, he connected saving faith (Eph. 2:8-9) with sanctifying good works (Eph. 2:10), which is the likely meaning of Rom. 1:17: “In the gospel a righteousness from God is revealed… that is by faith from first to last” (cf. Hab. 2:4).

If we truly believe in Jesus as Lord, we will want to please Him by cooperating with His will (Matt. 7:21, Eph. 5:8-10), but remaining faithful is as easy as an act of our will, even though Jesus referred to His yoke as a cross (Matt. 11:29-30, 16:24), and Peter acknowledged that a believer’s joy may sometimes be despite suffering (1Pet. 1:6-9). Paul explained that the reason Christ called some to be pastor-teachers is “to prepare God’s people for works of service… until we all reach unity in the faith… and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ” (Eph. 4:11b-13), which fullness is indicated by having the power to love (Eph. 3:16-19), which is why Paul said “In Christ Jesus… the only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love” (Gal. 5:6, cf. v. 22-23).

Paul urged believers to renew their minds by learning God’s perfect will (Rom. 12:2), which is conveyed via inspired Scripture and “is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work” (2Tim. 2:17). This is why Jesus said, “Man does not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God” (Matt. 4:4). Learning the manifold teachings regarding God’s moral will takes a lifetime, so let us continue to persevere from “what we have already attained” or learned (Phil. 3:16, 2Tim. 3:14), “making every effort to add to our faith goodness… godliness… and love” (2Pet. 1:5-7).

Fullness is indicated by having the power to love (Eph. 3:16-19), which is why Paul said “In Christ Jesus… the only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love” (Gal. 5:6, cf. v. 22-23). The didache teaches God’s will regarding how saints or those who have been saved should live in order to be a good witness for Christ, which involves learning more of God’s Word throughout one’s lifetime (Col. 2:6-7).

Building on the kerygma is important, but because believers are fallible, they may disagree about how to interpret secondary doctrines regarding relatively minor issues. May we receive God’s blessing as peacemakers, who draw inclusive circles around fellow Christians based on the kerygma rather than denominational lines between them due to didachaic differences. Jesus prayed for spiritual unity (cf. John 17:20-23, “May they be one…”), because unity regarding the Gospel is more important than accuracy regarding doctrinal details, so may we feel free to speak honestly and disagree friendly without becoming unduly upset.

An obvious hint from Scripture about building on saving faith is the list of additions in 2 Peter 1:5-7: “faith, goodness, knowledge, self-control, perseverance, godliness, kindness, love” because these qualities will make our knowledge of the Gospel productive and give reasons for confidence in our election (v. 8-11). Paul was confident that God, “who began a good work you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus” (Phil. 1:6), meaning the Second Coming or Judgment Day.

Other than saving faith being first, it does not appear that Peter’s list is in a particular order, and it may be compared with Paul’s list of fruit produced by the Holy Spirit in Galatians 5:22-23: “love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control”. We can note that qualities cited in both lists include: faith, love, goodness, kindness, and self-control, with godliness being akin to goodness, and perseverance being akin to faithfulness.

Also, we know that several places in Scripture “love” is employed as the summary term that includes the rest of godly attributes (as in Matt. 22:37-40, John 13:35, Gal. 5:6 and James 2:8). Paul prayed that “love may abound more and more in knowledge and depth of insight, so that you may be able to discern what is best and may be pure and blameless” (Phil. 1:9). This prayer is echoed (in Col. 1:9-12a) by Paul’s request that believers would be filled “with the knowledge of God’s will through all spiritual wisdom and understanding… in order that they may life a life worthy of the Lord and may please him in every way: bearing fruit in every good work… being strengthened with all power… so that they may have great endurance and patience, joyfully giving thanks.”

Ephesians chapter four seems to begin explaining the meaning of Ephesians 2:10, so perhaps it would be edifying to collect a list of didachaic doctrines based on what Paul says there. Verse 1 instructs believers to live a life worthy of the calling they have received, which Paul describes as including the following: Live worthy of the calling to be a Christian (v.1); Be humble, gentle and patient (v.2);
Maintain the unity of the Spirit (v.3); Speak the truth in love (v.15&25).
The preacher last Sunday described three kinds of people who enter through the narrow gate by believing in Jesus but stop growing. The first is those who believe in Jesus. The second has received Him and is religious but has added so much religious baggage that MUST be believe and done besides trusting Jesus and listening to Him, that it becomes hard to move forward and grow in grace and knowledge, because growing in grace and knowledge means accepting where we have picked up false ideas and dispensible practices and dropping those obsolete ideas and practices. The third gets distracted completely off the straight and narrow way into an ungodly lifestyle.

You might like to consider whether you are in the second group. You may be very religious and have collected and systematised "bible knowledge" into such a rigid and meticulously contrived form and, having invested so much time into doing so, you may be unwilling to remove pieces and whole chunks, and be only willing to add more to your system, one you have committed your life to assembling.
 
You might like to consider whether you are in the second group. You may be very religious and have collected and systematised "bible knowledge" into such a rigid and meticulously contrived form and, having invested so much time into doing so, you may be unwilling to remove pieces and whole chunks, and be only willing to add more to your system, one you have committed your life to assembling.

(y)(y)(y)
 
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The preacher last Sunday described three kinds of people who enter through the narrow gate by believing in Jesus but stop growing. The first is those who believe in Jesus. The second has received Him and is religious but has added so much religious baggage that MUST be believe and done besides trusting Jesus and listening to Him, that it becomes hard to move forward and grow in grace and knowledge, because growing in grace and knowledge means accepting where we have picked up false ideas and dispensible practices and dropping those obsolete ideas and practices. The third gets distracted completely off the straight and narrow way into an ungodly lifestyle.

You might like to consider whether you are in the second group. You may be very religious and have collected and systematised "bible knowledge" into such a rigid and meticulously contrived form and, having invested so much time into doing so, you may be unwilling to remove pieces and whole chunks, and be only willing to add more to your system, one you have committed your life to assembling.

I have considered that possibility, and I minimize it by inviting reproof and amending my beliefs as soon as I realize something is wrong.
IOW, a main concern of a truthseeker is willingness to "remove pieces and whole chunks" as you put it.
Thus, I invite you to critique the website beginning with any lesson and let me know what is wrong and in need of removal.
The more appropriate thread on which to engage in that discussion is the one about Hermeneutics, so I will look for you there or else on the thread that corresponds to the lesson you chose, such as the Apologetics thread for The Best Belief lesson (1).
Thanks! :love:
 
I have considered that possibility, and I minimize it by inviting reproof and amending my beliefs as soon as I realize something is wrong.
IOW, a main concern of a truthseeker is willingness to "remove pieces and whole chunks" as you put it.
Thus, I invite you to critique the website beginning with any lesson and let me know what is wrong and in need of removal.
The more appropriate thread on which to engage in that discussion is the one about Hermeneutics, so I will look for you there or else on the thread that corresponds to the lesson you chose, such as the Apologetics thread for The Best Belief lesson (1).
Thanks! :love:

You refuse to engage anyone who is on to your total lack of candor. Engaging with you is like trying to nail jello to the wall.

There is no room on your closed circuit website for anyone but yourself. Which church has accepted your denial of much of the Bible save what Paul wrote? Your entire belief system is set up around Paul but sadly you deny much of his teaching. It is as though your desire is simply to attack anything spiritual and until a person comes to see this for themself, you sound sincere. You told me which thread of yours I should write in and why and became hostile when I started a thread without you 'permission'

Any thread anyone wishes to engage your mumblings on is the appropriate one.
 
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