GOD'S WORD vs. man's opinion like GWHs.

[Ouch]

I notice that you did not quote me saying that I forbid anyone from speaking in genuine tongues.
Nor did you quote Paul forbidding anyone from speaking in known languages.
Believe Paul when he said we walk by faith, not by babbling.

I agree with you, I don't think you have forbid anyone from speaking in genuine tongues.

But that's because you don't even believe when a person is filled with the spirit they will speak in tongues but love only.

So you have never expericed bing filled with HIS spirit, according to HIS word.

In stead it's looks to me like all you do is blasphemy against the Holy Ghost.

Acts 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

 

[GWH]

I agree with you, I don't think you have forbid anyone from speaking in genuine tongues.

But that's because you don't even believe when a person is filled with the spirit they will speak in tongues but love only.

So you have never expericed bing filled with HIS spirit, according to HIS word.

In stead it's looks to me like all you do is blasphemy against the Holy Ghost.

Acts 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

Agreement is good!
Yes, I am skeptical that NT SIT occurs today because of GW teaching that love is the sign of SB.
Yes, I have experienced and am experiencing being filled with the HS per GW, but not perfectly.
It looks to me like you are judgmental rather than discerning.
"All men will know that you are my disciples if you love one another." (John 13:35)
"God has poured out his love into our hearts by the Holy Spirit, whom he has given us" (Romans 5:5b)

 

[Ouch]

Agreement is good!
Yes, I am skeptical that NT SIT occurs today because of GW teaching that love is the sign of SB.
Yes, I have experienced and am experiencing being filled with the HS per GW, but not perfectly.
It looks to me like you are judgmental rather than discerning.
"All men will know that you are my disciples if you love one another." (John 13:35)
"God has poured out his love into our hearts by the Holy Spirit, whom he has given us" (Romans 5:5b)

AMEN, agreement is good, but first we have to agree with HIS WORD.

Since our life depends on it.

I do agree that being filled with the Holy Ghost is ONE sign of love BUT that comes after one has been filled.

No one is ever perfect but when JESUS fills us it is perfect, as we listen and obey he just gives us more. That will be until the day we die.

We can judge a tree by it's fruits, that would be discerning. We have to observe, step back and see. We have HIS word to read, other read us.

There is nothing to discern about you, out of your own mouth it's clear that JESUS has never filled you with HIMSELF, HIS SPIRIT.

If he had you would not believe,
The earth is millions of years old.

When you are filled with HIS spirit you get filled with love.

Being filled with HIS spirit replaced being water baptism which is getting our sins removed.

Being filled with the Spirit and speaking in tongues was for that time and was perverted by some into a faux gift of mere babbling.

There are many was to be reborn.

Did I get them all?

 

[GWH]

AMEN, agreement is good, but first we have to agree with HIS WORD.
Since our life depends on it.

I do agree that being filled with the Holy Ghost is ONE sign of love BUT that comes after one has been filled.
No one is ever perfect but when JESUS fills us it is perfect, as we listen and obey he just gives us more. That will be until the day we die.

We can judge a tree by it's fruits, that would be discerning. We have to observe, step back and see. We have HIS word to read, other read us.
There is nothing to discern about you, out of your own mouth it's clear that JESUS has never filled you with HIMSELF, HIS SPIRIT.

If he had you would not believe,
The earth is millions of years old.

When you are filled with HIS spirit you get filled with love.
Being filled with HIS spirit replaced being water baptism which is getting our sins removed.
Being filled with the Spirit and speaking in tongues was for that time and was perverted by some into a faux gift of mere babbling.

There are many was to be reborn.
Did I get them all?

More exactly, first we have to agree with GW regarding GRFS aka the Gospel kerygma.
Our spiritual oneness depends on it.

Again more exactly, love signifies being filled with the HS as one is being filled.
Perfection consists in remaining Spirit-filled and thus without sin all of the time,
which even Paul did not claim and which you might have indicated by saying "until we die".

Yes, we judge correctly (IAW Matt. 7:5) by observing whether a person manifests the fruit of the HS (per Gal. 5:22-23).
You neither judge nor discern correctly or based on biblical parameters, which do NOT include knowing the age of the earth.

Yes, GW teaches that being filled with the HS is manifested by love and truth (per 1John 4:8 & 5:6).
WB replaced PC (physical circumcision) as the outward normative work done to profess saving faith/SB.

Yes, SIT was a sign for the time of planting the church, and mere babbling was practiced by pagans.

Yes, there are many ways of stating GRFS, but the normative way per Paul is "Believe in Jesus as Messiah and Lord/Son"
(per Acts 16:30-31, 2Cor. 4:5 & Col. 2:6).

 

[Ouch]

More exactly, first we have to agree with GW regarding GRFS aka the Gospel kerygma.
Our spiritual oneness depends on it.

Again more exactly, love signifies being filled with the HS as one is being filled.
Perfection consists in remaining Spirit-filled and thus without sin all of the time,
which even Paul did not claim and which you might have indicated by saying "until we die".

Yes, we judge correctly (IAW Matt. 7:5) by observing whether a person manifests the fruit of the HS (per Gal. 5:22-23).
You neither judge nor discern correctly or based on biblical parameters, which do NOT include knowing the age of the earth.

Yes, GW teaches that being filled with the HS is manifested by love and truth (per 1John 4:8 & 5:6).
WB replaced PC (physical circumcision) as the outward normative work done to profess saving faith/SB.

Yes, SIT was a sign for the time of planting the church, and mere babbling was practiced by pagans.

Yes, there are many ways of stating GRFS, but the normative way per Paul is "Believe in Jesus as Messiah and Lord/Son"
(per Acts 16:30-31, 2Cor. 4:5 & Col. 2:6).

Since you don't follow what HIS word says how to be saved why would you think we would ever agree with each other?

It is a life and death matter.

I'm really not interested in your opinion at all, that was the whole purpose of this thread and now post # 364 and still did not back up what comes out of your mouth proving it's a lie.

I often wonder why people's eyes are so closed and wonder if they will ever be opened?

Pride? or some other propose?

 

[Wansvic]

This issue is whether babbling is pagan (as in Matt. 6:9) or caused by God.
Unless the message is known, how can one be sure?
And as HeIsHere pointed out, the SIT caused by God in Acts as a sign was speaking known but unlearned languages.
Scripture attests that God communicates with believers via the Spirit of truth and love.

No matter how many times you say speaking in tongues is nothing more than pagan babbling doesn't change what the word of God says.

Again, Paul revealed born again believers pray to God with words they understand as well as ones they don't. (1 Cor. 14:14-15) So the explanation of how to pray the Lord's prayer in one way negates speaking in tongues.

The word also says, NO man understands the words spoken between a man's spirit and God's Spirit. (1 Cor. 14:2) Paul didn't say some know the language spoken. He said NO MAN understands words spoken in spirit to Spirit communication.

"For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also."

Those who refuse to accept what is, without question, found in the word of God do so to their own hurt.

 

[GWH]

Since you don't follow what HIS word says how to be saved why would you think we would ever agree with each other?

It is a life and death matter.

I'm really not interested in your opinion at all, that was the whole purpose of this thread and now post # 364 and still did not back up what comes out of your mouth proving it's a lie.

I often wonder why people's eyes are so closed and wonder if they will ever be opened?

Pride? or some other propose?

All I will say regarding this other than ditto is that I try to disagree agreeably.

 

[GWH]

No matter how many times you say speaking in tongues is nothing more than pagan babbling doesn't change what the word of God says.

Again, Paul revealed born again believers pray to God with words they understand as well as ones they don't. (1 Cor. 14:14-15) So the explanation of how to pray the Lord's prayer in one way negates speaking in tongues.

The word also says, NO man understands the words spoken between a man's spirit and God's Spirit. (1 Cor. 14:2) Paul didn't say some know the language spoken. He said NO MAN understands words spoken in spirit to Spirit communication.

"For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also."

Those who refuse to accept what is, without question, found in the word of God do so to their own hurt.

I have NEVER said SIT is pagan babbling.
What I have asked is how your babbling can be distinguished from pagan babbling?
(In obedience to 1Thes. 5:21)

 

[Ouch]

All I will say regarding this other than ditto is that I try to disagree agreeably.

I don't share my opinion, ONLY his word.

You share your opinion and scripture that you like, and totally disagree with scripture you don't like AND MAKE UP YOUR OWN.

So you are not disagreeing with me, you are disagreeing with JESUS HIMSELF.

 

[Wansvic]

You shoot yourself in the foot by failing to acknowledge that in 1Cor. 14:15-16 Paul affirms praying and singing with the Spirit AND understanding. Communicating with God in EVERY way is an act of faith (Rom. 1:17, 2Cor. 5:7).

Paul explains man communicates with God in unknown tongues, and also with understanding. This differs from your belief that the language spoken in tongues is a regular language. It is not. Paul said NO MAN understands what is being said when the spirit is communicating directly with God. That means NO MAN understands the language spoken. Period.

 

[Wansvic]

Yup, exactly what I explained, if you are not fluent in that foreign (earthly) language it is a mystery about what is being stated.

What don't you understand? Paul said NO MAN understands what is spoken. Not that the language is known by someone somewhere in the world. What is spoken and what is heard can be entirely different.

"For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries." 1 Cor. 14:2

 

[Ouch]

I have NEVER said SIT is pagan babbling.
What I have asked is how your babbling can be distinguished from pagan babbling?
(In obedience to 1Thes. 5:21)

Explain pagan babbling where is that in scripture?

Some of us know what happens when we are filled with his spirit.

One example, 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

1 Corinthians 14:2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

Since no man knows what a person is saying when the spirit is speaking how do you know?

Why would you say when I'm praying in the spirit is babbling?

How do you know what pagan babbling is?

Can you distinguished when JESUS is using a person or people like in Acts 2:4 from pagan babbling?

 

[Wansvic]

I have NEVER said SIT is pagan babbling.
What I have asked is how your babbling can be distinguished from pagan babbling?
(In obedience to 1Thes. 5:21)

I don't babble. I have been filled with the Holy Spirit. Therefore, my spirit communicates directly with God in a language unknown to man. Although you disagree, my experience is validated by the word of God. And that is proof enough since there is no higher authority.

 

[GWH]

I don't babble. I have been filled with the Holy Spirit. Therefore, my spirit communicates directly with God in a language unknown to man. Although you disagree, my experience is validated by the word of God. And that is proof enough since there is no higher authority.

Your experience is NOT validated by GW, but only by your opinion that it is genuine SIT rather than pagan babbling.

Maybe you are correct, only God knows.

 

[Ouch]

Your experience is NOT validated by GW, but only by your opinion that it is genuine SIT rather than pagan babbling.

Maybe you are correct, only God knows.

That is your way of saying something and can't back it up with HIS word.

I will add that to your growing list.

I know you.

 

[GWH]

That is your way of saying something and can't back it up with HIS word.

I will add that to your growing list.

I know you.

That is my way of saying that quarrelling is a sin (2Tim. 2:23-24), no matter how much you love to do it (1Tim. 6:3-4),
so I refuse to play ping-pong ad nauseum (Tit. 3:9-10). Everything I believe is on the website for the benefit of fellow TSers.
What you can add is another pejorative post to your list of persecutions (2Tim. 3:12-14).

 

[Ouch]

That is my way of saying that quarrelling is a sin (2Tim. 2:23-24), no matter how much you love to do it (1Tim. 6:3-4),
so I refuse to play ping-pong ad nauseum (Tit. 3:9-10). Everything I believe is on the website for the benefit of fellow TSers.
What you can add is another pejorative post to your list of persecutions (2Tim. 3:12-14).

The reasons so many back and forths is because nothing is ever resolved with you.

Post # 376 AND STILL WAITING FOR YOU TO ANSWER THOSE 3 QUESTIONS, which do to your understanding now there are more!!!

You make up your own bible then when you get questioned you don't answer, so it goes back to you to answer and still no answers.

SO WHAT you have a web sight, if it's yours's it state's lies about HIS word just like you do here leading people down the wrong path. There blood WILL be on your hands.

Great idea, I think it's too late since you blaspheme the holy ghost but try to read HIS word and obey it for the first time, it will change your life.

I"m still so confused WHY YOU CAN'T SEE.

Since you refuse to obey his word and get baptized in JESUS name to get rid of your sins and refuse to be humble and pray for JESUS to fill you with HIS spirit, I think
I see the answer, John 3:3

 

[GWH]

My reason for participating on CC is simply to share my fallible faith with others, hoping they will find what I have learned helpful for understanding ultimate truth. I am grateful to all people—famous philosophers and anonymous acquaintances—who have helped shape my beliefs.

I believe that everyone lives by faith regarding God or ultimate reality (2Cor. 5:7), and the structure of earthly reality forces souls to choose between various contradictory beliefs and to make (albeit sometimes rather subconsciously) two watershed choices: between nihilism and moralism, and between the various atheistic beliefs and the highest type of theism, NT Christianity.

I believe there are many reasons to believe NT theism is true. I think any open-minded truthseeker who compares the NT teachings of Jesus and Paul with the founding scriptures of other religions will reach the same conclusion as I have: The NT is the most credible canon or collection of writings purporting to be a communique from God. The NT hope for heaven is based on evidence in support of Jesus’ claim to be Messiah/Christ, which includes: the prophecy or foreshadowing of His life (in various OT scriptures, including IS 53 and PS 22, and by the sacrificial system), the purpose of His death (as explained in the NT, such as Heb. 7:18-10:18), and the probability or credibility of His resurrection (in history as recorded by the last chapters of the Gospels and Rom. 1:3-4).

Christianity qualified OT theism, which emphasized God’s love for some people (descendants of Abraham), with a UMI to love everyone by reflecting His love, beginning with God and continuing with one-self and one’s neighbors (whether Jew or Gentile) and even including one’s enemies (per Matt. 22:37-39 & 5:44). The best reason to hope in God is Christ. Paul calls those who have saving faith/cooperate with God’s will the spiritual or righteous children of Abraham (Rom. 3:28-30 & 4:9-16). I believe this belief is best: Let there be God!

 

[Ouch]

My reason for participating on CC is simply to share my fallible faith with others, hoping they will find what I have learned helpful for understanding ultimate truth. I am grateful to all people—famous philosophers and anonymous acquaintances—who have helped shape my beliefs.

I believe that everyone lives by faith regarding God or ultimate reality (2Cor. 5:7), and the structure of earthly reality forces souls to choose between various contradictory beliefs and to make (albeit sometimes rather subconsciously) two watershed choices: between nihilism and moralism, and between the various atheistic beliefs and the highest type of theism, NT Christianity.

I believe there are many reasons to believe NT theism is true. I think any open-minded truthseeker who compares the NT teachings of Jesus and Paul with the founding scriptures of other religions will reach the same conclusion as I have: The NT is the most credible canon or collection of writings purporting to be a communique from God. The NT hope for heaven is based on evidence in support of Jesus’ claim to be Messiah/Christ, which includes: the prophecy or foreshadowing of His life (in various OT scriptures, including IS 53 and PS 22, and by the sacrificial system), the purpose of His death (as explained in the NT, such as Heb. 7:18-10:18), and the probability or credibility of His resurrection (in history as recorded by the last chapters of the Gospels and Rom. 1:3-4).

Christianity qualified OT theism, which emphasized God’s love for some people (descendants of Abraham), with a UMI to love everyone by reflecting His love, beginning with God and continuing with one-self and one’s neighbors (whether Jew or Gentile) and even including one’s enemies (per Matt. 22:37-39 & 5:44). The best reason to hope in God is Christ. Paul calls those who have saving faith/cooperate with God’s will the spiritual or righteous children of Abraham (Rom. 3:28-30 & 4:9-16). I believe this belief is best: Let there be God!

This is my thread why do you post what you like on it, start your own thread!

Of course you can post anything you like, I don't care I was just giving you what you give to others.

The purpose was to get you to prove what comes out of your mouth lines up with HIS word.

Why are you telling people they hope they find the ultimate truth when you don't know yourself?

I'm sharing the truth why don't you?

Post $378 STILL 3 QUESTIONS.




GHW OPINION is
1. Spirit baptism REPLACED water baptism.

2. Being filled with the Holy Ghost means YOU ARE FILLED WITH LOVE.

3. Being filled with the Spirit and speaking in tongues was for that time and was perverted by some into a faux gift of mere babbling.

I asked GWH to back up his opinion on July 27th AND I"M STILL WAITING.



GWHs OPINION as he CLAIMS GOD WORD SAYS IT.

The Kerygma - God's Requirement for Salvation #821
"GW says WB was replaced with SB because they are two separate things: one is an outward work that may be imitated, while the other is the inward faith in JESUS that is salvific."

The Word: The accounts in the NT include both water baptism and speaking in tongues after receiving the infilling of the Holy Ghost as noted above.



The Kerygma - God's Requirement for Salvation #976
GWH
Just noticed this point: Yes, believers are either Spirit-filled or not, and love is the evidence of filling that justifies believing someone is filled (and the basis of spiritual unity) per John 13:35.

"And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance." Acts 2:4



The Kerygma - God's Requirement for Salvationon #1,082
Regarding speaking in tongues, the original occurrence at Pentecost (in Acts 2:4-11) was earthly languages given as a sign of reversing Babel for the purpose of evangelism, but by the time of its occurrence in the church at Corinth it had morphed into mere babble, which Paul tried to quash tactfully (1Cor. 14:19), possibly because even pagan religions practiced it. Again, the purpose of the original gift at Pentecost and for a while longer was to fulfill prophecy and ensure the planting of the first Christian church, but that gift apparently ceased after the apostolic era (1Cor. 13:8-13) and was perverted by some into a faux gift of mere babbling, so one should not be myopic and focus only on a problematic proof-text (1Cor. 14:18-20).

PROBLEMATIC PROOF-TEXT???? You do know that ALL SCRIPTURE IS GIVEN BY INSPIRATION OF GOD AND IS PROFITABLE FOR DOCTRINE, REPROOF, CORRECTION, FOR INSTRUCTION IN RIGHTEOUSNESS THAT THE MAN OF GOD MAY BE PERFECT, THOROUGHLY FURNISHED UNTO ALL GOOD WORKS. 2 Tim. 3:16-17
!!!!!!!! So to throw out scriptures one doesn't like keeps people from coming to the truth. !!!!!!!!

Paul explained there are diversities of tongues, meaning they serve different purposes of God. Such as evidence of the infilling of the Holy Ghost, edification of one's reborn spirit, and edification of church members through the spiritual gift of tongues and interpretation.
"For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries." 1 Cor. 14:2

So who is right GOD and HIS word or GWH?

GWH the ball is in your court!

 

[GWH]

This is my thread why do you post what you like on it, start your own thread!

Of course you can post anything you like, I don't care I was just giving you what you give to others.
The purpose was to get you to prove what comes out of your mouth lines up with HIS word.
Why are you telling people they hope they find the ultimate truth when you don't know yourself?
I'm sharing the truth why don't you?

Post $378 STILL 3 QUESTIONS.

GHW OPINION is
1. Spirit baptism REPLACED water baptism.

2. Being filled with the Holy Ghost means YOU ARE FILLED WITH LOVE.

3. Being filled with the Spirit and speaking in tongues was for that time and was perverted by some into a faux gift of mere babbling.

I asked GWH to back up his opinion on July 27th AND I"M STILL WAITING.

GWHs OPINION as he CLAIMS GOD WORD SAYS IT.

The Kerygma - God's Requirement for Salvation #821
"GW says WB was replaced with SB because they are two separate things: one is an outward work that may be imitated, while the other is the inward faith in JESUS that is salvific."

The Word: The accounts in the NT include both water baptism and speaking in tongues after receiving the infilling of the Holy Ghost as noted above.

The Kerygma - God's Requirement for Salvation #976
GWH
Just noticed this point: Yes, believers are either Spirit-filled or not, and love is the evidence of filling that justifies believing someone is filled (and the basis of spiritual unity) per John 13:35.

"And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance." Acts 2:4

The Kerygma - God's Requirement for Salvationon #1,082
Regarding speaking in tongues, the original occurrence at Pentecost (in Acts 2:4-11) was earthly languages given as a sign of reversing Babel for the purpose of evangelism, but by the time of its occurrence in the church at Corinth it had morphed into mere babble, which Paul tried to quash tactfully (1Cor. 14:19), possibly because even pagan religions practiced it. Again, the purpose of the original gift at Pentecost and for a while longer was to fulfill prophecy and ensure the planting of the first Christian church, but that gift apparently ceased after the apostolic era (1Cor. 13:8-13) and was perverted by some into a faux gift of mere babbling, so one should not be myopic and focus only on a problematic proof-text (1Cor. 14:18-20).

PROBLEMATIC PROOF-TEXT???? You do know that ALL SCRIPTURE IS GIVEN BY INSPIRATION OF GOD AND IS PROFITABLE FOR DOCTRINE, REPROOF, CORRECTION, FOR INSTRUCTION IN RIGHTEOUSNESS THAT THE MAN OF GOD MAY BE PERFECT, THOROUGHLY FURNISHED UNTO ALL GOOD WORKS. 2 Tim. 3:16-17
!!!!!!!! So to throw out scriptures one doesn't like keeps people from coming to the truth. !!!!!!!!

Paul explained there are diversities of tongues, meaning they serve different purposes of God. Such as evidence of the infilling of the Holy Ghost, edification of one's reborn spirit, and edification of church members through the spiritual gift of tongues and interpretation.
"For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries." 1 Cor. 14:2

So who is right GOD and HIS word or GWH?

GWH the ball is in your court!

I have started 14 threads, but the only one with my initials on it is this one, so I adopted it,
and I have answered all questions, but you refuse to learn, so I have given up and
referred you to the website I bequeath to all fellow TSers: <truthseekersfellowship.com>
excerpts from which are in post #378 so that unbiased readers can check your accusations.

I believe my understanding of GW is more right than yours,
but I will not be sucked into playing ping pong ball with the demeanor denomination,
whose members have agreed with your pejorative posts on this thread plus most tulipists.