How do we distinguish false Christ & false Prophets according to Our Lord?

[Dino246]

You stated—
[Dino246 said:
None of which actually make the two one. The only contending verse is John 10:30, which in context is addressing purpose and ability, not core identity. There are many more verses that distinguish them than appear to conflate them.]

Meaning—- you were referring to the 2 examples that I gave. So you were negating both. (?)

My post #90 quotes your post #87 in which you neither said nor cited anything about husbands and wives. You introduced that concept in post #98.

 

[Dino246]

The “Wackiness” seems to fall back on you!!

Who in the world said that Jesus is God the Father, and that all Scripture is parables?? lol

Again, "Godsgood" has been pushing those ideas, though primarily in other threads.

 

[KeithAB]

How do we distinguish false prophets and teachers? I am new here but the best advice I can give is read Acts 17 and follow the example of the Christians of Berea.
Acts 17:11These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
When was the last time you listened to a Sunday School lesson or a Sunday Surman and went home and studied what the scriptures had to say about what you were being thought to make sure they were true?

 

[TruthDefender]

My post #90 quotes your post #87 in which you neither said nor cited anything about husbands and wives. You introduced that concept in post #98.

The above is what I took it from. Let it go!!

 

[Dino246]

The above is what I took it from. Let it go!!

Wow... you basically attacked me and then refuse to trace the thread to see where the issue originated. Good on you.

 

[Gideon300]

Yes the version of Luke is more dangerous because it is specified the word MANY WILL COME.

How do we distinguish them according to Our Lord Jesus.

In the mid 1990's, a deception arose called the Toronto Blessing. It was an abomination, a counterfeit of the Holy Spirit that produced signs that deceived vast numbers of believers, or at least many who claimed to be believers.

The deception was clever because it was obviously not natural. It is not new. Similar deceptions took place in the early 1900's, including the Azusa Street revival. Some of the indications that it was fake are as follows.

1. The launch of the abomination was by Rodney Howard-Browne and Kenneth Copeland. The video is available on youtube. I know something about the occult. RHB hypnotised a Pastor and had him perform ridiculous and demeaning acts. Watch it and weep.
2. There was an excessive and false emphasis on the Holy Spirit. That is an issue with Pentecostalism generally.
3. Heresy. Australia's AOG stated that the Holy Spirit had replaced the Lord Jesus. This is utterly contrary to scripture.
4. Meetings of the church turned into a circus in places that adopted the counterfeit spirit. People crowing as if they were roosters, laughing uncontrollably, calling out in the meetings, falling over and writhing like snakes - I saw it all. (1 Corinthians 14: 26-40)
5. Distorting scripture. One so-called prophet says that the Holy Spirit is now Lord. This is a lie. It's based on 2 Corinthians 3:17. And that is the danger of taking one verse, out of context, and creating a new doctrine out of it (Dutch Sheets is the guilty party here).
6. RHB went around the world promoting this abomination. He complained that people were praying in the meetings. "Do your praying at home". This is the opposite of the instruction to "test every spirit". (1 John 4:1)
7. The witness of God's people. One man I once shared a house with told me that the meetings were like the drug parties he attended before he was saved. His pastor told him it was of God, so he allowed the counterfeit into his life. I knew a Hindi pastor who was a Siddhu before he was saved. He told me what he saw was no different from the occult rituals and practices that Hindus use to gain more demonic powers.

I was much troubled by this and I asked Lord Jesus to tell me why His people were so easily deceived. He told me, "They know me as the Way. They know me as the Truth. They do not know me as the Life". I've thought about this a lot. Those who know Jesus as "The Life" have a clarity of discernment that others lack. They do not believe everything just because the speaker is famous or because everyone else approves.

We must know Jesus, because that is the definition of eternal life. (John 17:3). Countless people know about Jesus but that is as far as it goes. If someone told me that my wife was seen at a bar somewhere, I'd laugh at them. I even have to dilute the communion wine we have from time to time at home. I know her. We must also have a sound knowledge of God's word. We can match what we see and hear with what God says about it.

When I was a very new believer, I saw that there was a lot of deception and false doctrine around. I read as many books as I could, but I could see that it was not enough. So I asked God for discernment. I'm not infallible and I did fall for the prosperity deception for a while, the Lord has protected me most times and taught me the error of WOF and prosperity etc. I am only too aware of how insidious and crafty some of these errors can be. That's how even the elect can be deceived. We need to remain humble. The one who says that he cannot be deceived is already deceived.

 

[TruthDefender]

Wow... you basically attacked me and then refuse to trace the thread to see where the issue originated. Good on you.

Basically, I’m just refusing to argue with you anymore.

 

[Godsgood]

Let us go back to our topic on this thread.

In the New Testament if Jesus is the real messenger as Son of the living God then the False Prophets are the Scribes & Pharisees.

If the Scribes & Pharisees were the false prophets in the New Testament
Why the Jews did not discern them?

 

[Dino246]

If the Scribes & Pharisees were the false prophets in the New Testament
Why the Jews did not discern them?

Because the scribes and Pharisees weren’t false prophets. It’s that simple.

They were false teachers, which is different.

The scribes and Pharisees were the ones teaching the Jews how to interpret the Law, so the eyes of the regular Jews were blinded.

 

[Wansvic]

-My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand. I and My Father are one (meaning they agree as one; another scenario is husband and wife become one, even though they’re still 2 people) John 10:29–30

-Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, you are gods? If He called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken), do you say of Him whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, You are blaspheming, because I said,
I am the Son of God?
John 10:34–36; Ps. 82:6

-of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is overall, the eternally blessed
God. Amen. 9:5

-The God of our fathers raised up Jesus whom you murdered by hanging on a tree. Him God has exalted to His right hand (equal to God the Father)to be Prince and Savior, to give repentance to Israel and
forgiveness of sins. 5: 30–31

There many more verses…..

Consider the words of God: "Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Consider the Book of Revelation-It is actually the Revealing of who Jesus is...
Jesus speaking:

"I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty." Rev 1:8

"I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last." Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. Rev 22:13-14

Jesus reveals being the one who created David and also came forth from the lineage of David; proving again that Jesus was fully God and fully man.
"I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star." Rev 22:16


Consider as well who scripture says resurrected Jesus. It confirms that IN Jesus dwells the fulness of the Godhead:
"Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up." John 2:19
"But God raised him up from the dead; whereof we are witnesses". This directly states that God raised Jesus." Acts 3:15
"But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you". This verse attributes the power of the resurrection to the Spirit of God who raised Jesus." Romans 8:11


Prophecy- Isaiah 7:14 (KJV) "Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel".
Fulfillment of Prophecy- Matthew 1:23 (KJV) "Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us".



Paul stated God purchased the church with whose blood? His own blood. And since one's life is in the blood-God was in Christ reconciling the world until himself:
"Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood." Acts 20:28


"And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory." 1 Tim 3:16


Remember it was Jesus who said, those who hunger and thirst after righteousness shall be filled. Matt. 5:16

 

[TruthDefender]

If the Scribes & Pharisees were the false prophets in the New Testament
Why the Jews did not discern them?

In the mid 1990's, a deception arose called the Toronto Blessing. It was an abomination, a counterfeit of the Holy Spirit that produced signs that deceived vast numbers of believers, or at least many who claimed to be believers.

The deception was clever because it was obviously not natural. It is not new. Similar deceptions took place in the early 1900's, including the Azusa Street revival. Some of the indications that it was fake are as follows.

1. The launch of the abomination was by Rodney Howard-Browne and Kenneth Copeland. The video is available on youtube. I know something about the occult. RHB hypnotised a Pastor and had him perform ridiculous and demeaning acts. Watch it and weep.
2. There was an excessive and false emphasis on the Holy Spirit. That is an issue with Pentecostalism generally.
3. Heresy. Australia's AOG stated that the Holy Spirit had replaced the Lord Jesus. This is utterly contrary to scripture.
4. Meetings of the church turned into a circus in places that adopted the counterfeit spirit. People crowing as if they were roosters, laughing uncontrollably, calling out in the meetings, falling over and writhing like snakes - I saw it all. (1 Corinthians 14: 26-40)
5. Distorting scripture. One so-called prophet says that the Holy Spirit is now Lord. This is a lie. It's based on 2 Corinthians 3:17. And that is the danger of taking one verse, out of context, and creating a new doctrine out of it (Dutch Sheets is the guilty party here).
6. RHB went around the world promoting this abomination. He complained that people were praying in the meetings. "Do your praying at home". This is the opposite of the instruction to "test every spirit". (1 John 4:1)
7. The witness of God's people. One man I once shared a house with told me that the meetings were like the drug parties he attended before he was saved. His pastor told him it was of God, so he allowed the counterfeit into his life. I knew a Hindi pastor who was a Siddhu before he was saved. He told me what he saw was no different from the occult rituals and practices that Hindus use to gain more demonic powers.

I was much troubled by this and I asked Lord Jesus to tell me why His people were so easily deceived. He told me, "They know me as the Way. They know me as the Truth. They do not know me as the Life". I've thought about this a lot. Those who know Jesus as "The Life" have a clarity of discernment that others lack. They do not believe everything just because the speaker is famous or because everyone else approves.

We must know Jesus, because that is the definition of eternal life. (John 17:3). Countless people know about Jesus but that is as far as it goes. If someone told me that my wife was seen at a bar somewhere, I'd laugh at them. I even have to dilute the communion wine we have from time to time at home. I know her. We must also have a sound knowledge of God's word. We can match what we see and hear with what God says about it.

When I was a very new believer, I saw that there was a lot of deception and false doctrine around. I read as many books as I could, but I could see that it was not enough. So I asked God for discernment. I'm not infallible and I did fall for the prosperity deception for a while, the Lord has protected me most times and taught me the error of WOF and prosperity etc. I am only too aware of how insidious and crafty some of these errors can be. That's how even the elect can be deceived. We need to remain humble. The one who says that he cannot be deceived is already deceived.

To identify heresy is to know Scripture = God, because it is His word.

 

[TruthDefender]

Consider the words of God: "Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Consider the Book of Revelation-It is actually the Revealing of who Jesus is...
Jesus speaking:

"I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty." Rev 1:8

"I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last." Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. Rev 22:13-14

Jesus reveals being the one who created David and also came forth from the lineage of David; proving again that Jesus was fully God and fully man.
"I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star." Rev 22:16


Consider as well who scripture says resurrected Jesus. It confirms that IN Jesus dwells the fulness of the Godhead:
"Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up." John 2:19
"But God raised him up from the dead; whereof we are witnesses". This directly states that God raised Jesus." Acts 3:15
"But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you". This verse attributes the power of the resurrection to the Spirit of God who raised Jesus." Romans 8:11


Prophecy- Isaiah 7:14 (KJV) "Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel".
Fulfillment of Prophecy- Matthew 1:23 (KJV) "Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us".



Paul stated God purchased the church with whose blood? His own blood. And since one's life is in the blood-God was in Christ reconciling the world until himself:
"Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood." Acts 20:28


"And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory." 1 Tim 3:16


Remember it was Jesus who said, those who hunger and thirst after righteousness shall be filled. Matt. 5:16

So you are negating the verses that I gave you? I’m well aware of all the verses that you gave, but you should look into all the others that He wrote too…they depict different things about Him that obviously are also true (irregardless of whether or not you want to believe).

 

[Wansvic]

So you are negating the verses that I gave you? I’m well aware of all the verses that you gave, but you should look into all the others that He wrote too…they depict different things about Him that obviously are also true (irregardless of whether or not you want to believe).

I am not ignoring the verses you noted. They along with those I've shared shed light concerning the truth. There is no contradiction, Jesus was fully man and at the same time fully God.

Jesus is not a separate person of the Godhead. According to scripture the Godhead is in Jesus; "In Jesus dwells all the fulness of the Godhead bodily." Col. 2:9-12


Consider Jesus own words:
"Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also." 1 John 2:23

"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known ME, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?

Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me?: .John 14:6-10

 

[Godsgood]

If the Scribes & Pharisees were the false prophets in the New Testament
Why the Jews did not discern them?

Can we consider one factor that Scribes & Pharisees are preaching the words of God?
This is why the Jews belief they come from God.

 

[Godsgood]

Because the scribes and Pharisees weren’t false prophets. It’s that simple.

They were false teachers, which is different.

The scribes and Pharisees were the ones teaching the Jews how to interpret the Law, so the eyes of the regular Jews were blinded.

Would you consider Isaac & Jacob prophets?

 

[TruthDefender]

I am not ignoring the verses you noted. They along with those I've shared shed light concerning the truth. There is no contradiction, Jesus was fully man and at the same time fully God.

Jesus is not a separate person of the Godhead. According to scripture the Godhead is in Jesus; "In Jesus dwells all the fulness of the Godhead bodily." Col. 2:9-12


Consider Jesus own words:
"Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also." 1 John 2:23

"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known ME, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?

Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me?: .John 14:6-10

Yes, the Father and the Son agree as one.

 

[Gideon300]

To identify heresy is to know Scripture = God, because it is His word.

Actually no. Lord Jesus is God's Word. And that misunderstanding has led to much error.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (John 1:1)

How do we know it is Lord Jesus?
'The Word became flesh and made His dwelling among us. We have seen His glory, the glory of the one and only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth." (Verse 14)

The Bible is not the complete revelation of God. Our knowledge is limited (1 Corinthians 13:9). The Bible is essential because we are so easily deceived. It's good to know the Book of the Lord. It is better by far to know the Lord of the Book.

 

[TruthDefender]

I am not ignoring the verses you noted. They along with those I've shared shed light concerning the truth. There is no contradiction, Jesus was fully man and at the same time fully God.

Jesus is not a separate person of the Godhead. According to scripture the Godhead is in Jesus; "In Jesus dwells all the fulness of the Godhead bodily." Col. 2:9-12


Consider Jesus own words:
"Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also." 1 John 2:23

"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known ME, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?

Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me?: .John 14:6-10

The Trinity, 3 agreeing as one.

 

[TruthDefender]

Because the scribes and Pharisees weren’t false prophets. It’s that simple.

They were false teachers, which is different.

The scribes and Pharisees were the ones teaching the Jews how to interpret the Law, so the eyes of the regular Jews were blinded.

Jesus was considered a Prophet, but He was also a Rabbi of Rabbis. Maybe they were thinking along these thoughts….?

 

[Wansvic]

Yes, the Father and the Son agree as one.

Being IN has a far different meaning than agreeing IN one.

IN Jesus dwells the fulness of the Godhead. Col. 2:9

Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me?:
Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and YET HAST THOU NOT KNOWN ME John 14:6-10

John 12:48
He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.