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J
Doc
I had a look at that video. Actually these type of videos prove nothing. It is easy to doctor videos to make it appear as you want them to. For example, is it not possible that the satellite was programmed to travel at exactly the same speed as Earth, to make it look still. Besides, some of the image did seem to shake slightly and also (in some places) give the impression of partial spin. As I say, could be doctored. I would also ask, is it possible for a sattellite to "hang" perfectly still over the Earth? Another thought is that if the galaxy is moving around the Earth, wouldn't the satellite move with it, even if it was hanging still? If the satellite is simply hanging but moving with a spinning galaxy, wouldn't the Earth appear to spin too?
Sorry, too many possibilities which may nullify the video's claim?
Yup the video is not absolute proof of anything. Just countering your claim that probes have proved the earths spin.
So it looks like neither of us can bring forward any video or other digital observational or statistical evidence forward as it could all have been doctored.
Best to stick to Gods word and real science yes?
The real science is handled in the thread I linked to.
I'm happy to discuss Gods word as much as you want here.
So it looks like neither of us can bring forward any video or other digital observational or statistical evidence forward as it could all have been doctored.
Best to stick to Gods word and real science yes?
The real science is handled in the thread I linked to.
I'm happy to discuss Gods word as much as you want here.
J
Hi Doc
I am no scientist, nor an expert on evolution. But I do have my God given and sanctified logic/common sense/intelligence though.
Although I am not an expert I do trust creationist sites like Answers In Genesis because their arguments make perfect sense. The way they explain things is simplified so that EVEN I can understand it, because they use OBSERVABLE visual aids that cannot be refuted. They (like Geocentrists) use Bible glasses when looking at OBSERVABLE science. The difference is that AiG USE the tools that experts have at their disposal and so use these to PROVE the accuracy of the Bible (which has NEVER been in doubt) and disprove the false THEORIES (not facts) of evolutionists.
I just thought I would make that clear before I continue. Therefore, I am not qualified enough to dispute Geocentrists claims properly. This is why I will always point you in the direction of those who can answer the claims properly.
However, having said these things, I would like to ask you something which puzzles me.
If it was true that the sun rotated round the Earth, wouldn't it have to do that every 24 hours? I mean, if the Earth remained still, then the sun would have to orbit the Earth every 24 hours to give us night and day, wouldn't it? That would mean that the sun would have to move 365 times quicker than the alleged speed of a spinning Earth which orbits the sun. Have I understood correctly? If that was true, then how do we account for the different seasons which produce one year and the way that things grow in different climates at different times of the year.
I looked at the Geocentrists sites but nothing they say makes sense to my logical mind. Certainly not in the same way that AiG does make sense. We also need to listen to the voice of the Holy Spirit. Jesus said that the Spirit of Truth would lead us into all truth. I am trusting that the Holy Spirit will give me the discernment to recognise truth from error. I get the sense within me from the Holy Spirit that Aig is far more sound.
However, please convince me with STRONG arguments that even I can understand. I have already explained how God uses a certain amount of poetry to emphasise truth. When the Bible says the sun moved, it is because (to our observation using our natural eyes) that is what it looks like if we consider that the Earth is His footstool ie His resting place with men. Genesis tells us that everything was made to centre around the Earth, meaning that God's object iof attention and love is the Earth. Nowhere does it say that the Earth DOES NOT move. Why would it? When most of the Bible was written they did not have the tools to measure the Universe. So God speaks to us in a way that we can understand it. He did this with prophetic visions. Can I ask you, do you believe that a literal beast with 7 heads and 10 horns will arise out of the sea? The Book of Revelation interprets that image for us and tells us that it was not literal. The same with other visions throughout the Bible. Then what about parables. Again Jesus showed us that the images were not literal but conveyed a message.
Having said that, I believe that the Bible IS to be taken literally on every occasion unless the passage or another passage specifically tells us it was not literal. "God is not a god of confusion but of peace" . When it comes to the Heavens, God is literally telling us what we can see with our own eyes or He has inspired the writer to use his own personality in conveying the message. That writer (in most of your examples) was a poetic writer and therefore wrote in poetic style using language that made sense to the readers. Just like we do today! Example we say "the sun will set in about one hour". "I will wake before the rising of the sun". Most of us believe that the sun does not move, but we STILL use that type of language. It is just normal standard language that everyone has used throughout history (including bible days).
I already gave you an example from scripture of this. I showed you where it says the "sun became hot". Do you take that literally to mean that the sun sometimes loses its heat and has to reheat itself? If you use the "sun moved" argument you would have to be consistent with the verse that says "the sun became hot". Context shows us that at certain times of the day the sun was hotter ON THE EARTH. The sun itself does not become hotter or colder during night and day. If you can accept that the sun does not actually vary in heat during night and day, maybe you can accept that when it says the sun moved, it actually means that this is what it looks like from the Earth's perspective.
I am no scientist, nor an expert on evolution. But I do have my God given and sanctified logic/common sense/intelligence though.
Although I am not an expert I do trust creationist sites like Answers In Genesis because their arguments make perfect sense. The way they explain things is simplified so that EVEN I can understand it, because they use OBSERVABLE visual aids that cannot be refuted. They (like Geocentrists) use Bible glasses when looking at OBSERVABLE science. The difference is that AiG USE the tools that experts have at their disposal and so use these to PROVE the accuracy of the Bible (which has NEVER been in doubt) and disprove the false THEORIES (not facts) of evolutionists.
I just thought I would make that clear before I continue. Therefore, I am not qualified enough to dispute Geocentrists claims properly. This is why I will always point you in the direction of those who can answer the claims properly.
However, having said these things, I would like to ask you something which puzzles me.
If it was true that the sun rotated round the Earth, wouldn't it have to do that every 24 hours? I mean, if the Earth remained still, then the sun would have to orbit the Earth every 24 hours to give us night and day, wouldn't it? That would mean that the sun would have to move 365 times quicker than the alleged speed of a spinning Earth which orbits the sun. Have I understood correctly? If that was true, then how do we account for the different seasons which produce one year and the way that things grow in different climates at different times of the year.
I looked at the Geocentrists sites but nothing they say makes sense to my logical mind. Certainly not in the same way that AiG does make sense. We also need to listen to the voice of the Holy Spirit. Jesus said that the Spirit of Truth would lead us into all truth. I am trusting that the Holy Spirit will give me the discernment to recognise truth from error. I get the sense within me from the Holy Spirit that Aig is far more sound.
However, please convince me with STRONG arguments that even I can understand. I have already explained how God uses a certain amount of poetry to emphasise truth. When the Bible says the sun moved, it is because (to our observation using our natural eyes) that is what it looks like if we consider that the Earth is His footstool ie His resting place with men. Genesis tells us that everything was made to centre around the Earth, meaning that God's object iof attention and love is the Earth. Nowhere does it say that the Earth DOES NOT move. Why would it? When most of the Bible was written they did not have the tools to measure the Universe. So God speaks to us in a way that we can understand it. He did this with prophetic visions. Can I ask you, do you believe that a literal beast with 7 heads and 10 horns will arise out of the sea? The Book of Revelation interprets that image for us and tells us that it was not literal. The same with other visions throughout the Bible. Then what about parables. Again Jesus showed us that the images were not literal but conveyed a message.
Having said that, I believe that the Bible IS to be taken literally on every occasion unless the passage or another passage specifically tells us it was not literal. "God is not a god of confusion but of peace" . When it comes to the Heavens, God is literally telling us what we can see with our own eyes or He has inspired the writer to use his own personality in conveying the message. That writer (in most of your examples) was a poetic writer and therefore wrote in poetic style using language that made sense to the readers. Just like we do today! Example we say "the sun will set in about one hour". "I will wake before the rising of the sun". Most of us believe that the sun does not move, but we STILL use that type of language. It is just normal standard language that everyone has used throughout history (including bible days).
I already gave you an example from scripture of this. I showed you where it says the "sun became hot". Do you take that literally to mean that the sun sometimes loses its heat and has to reheat itself? If you use the "sun moved" argument you would have to be consistent with the verse that says "the sun became hot". Context shows us that at certain times of the day the sun was hotter ON THE EARTH. The sun itself does not become hotter or colder during night and day. If you can accept that the sun does not actually vary in heat during night and day, maybe you can accept that when it says the sun moved, it actually means that this is what it looks like from the Earth's perspective.
AiG are ok but even they are capable of making mistakes do you agree?
Yes.
I dont know.
The Seasons:
Geocentric explanation - The Sun orbits our Earth yearly on a non-linear but fixed path within the rotating firmament. It spiral-orbits the Earth north-south and clockwise from the Tropic of Cancer to the Tropic of Capricorn in six months and then "alters course laterally" (carried along by the rotating firmament) to spiral-orbit south-north and continues clockwise for the next six months (total of one tropical year). Seasons result from the yearly helical oscillation of the sun's path around the un-tilted stationary Earth.
You've barely given me a chance yet?
My statement was:
Whenever there is any scripture that COULD be describing the movement/non movement of the Earth/sun.....its ALWAYS the earth thats stationary and the sun thats moving.
You didnt agree and provided a verse. I rebutted it. No word from you since on that scripture.
Do you have any more verses or can you agree with my statement?
Yes.
I dont know.
The Seasons:
Geocentric explanation - The Sun orbits our Earth yearly on a non-linear but fixed path within the rotating firmament. It spiral-orbits the Earth north-south and clockwise from the Tropic of Cancer to the Tropic of Capricorn in six months and then "alters course laterally" (carried along by the rotating firmament) to spiral-orbit south-north and continues clockwise for the next six months (total of one tropical year). Seasons result from the yearly helical oscillation of the sun's path around the un-tilted stationary Earth.
You've barely given me a chance yet?
My statement was:
Whenever there is any scripture that COULD be describing the movement/non movement of the Earth/sun.....its ALWAYS the earth thats stationary and the sun thats moving.
You didnt agree and provided a verse. I rebutted it. No word from you since on that scripture.
Do you have any more verses or can you agree with my statement?
A
well according to science the sun revolves around the universe center with the rest of our galaxy. therefore both could have happened.
mmm....
joshua 10: 12?
12 Then Joshua spoke to the LORD in the day when the LORD delivered up the Amorites before the children of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel:
“Sun, stand still over Gibeon;
And Moon, in the Valley of Aijalon.” 13 So the sun stood still,
And the moon stopped,
Till the people had revenge
Upon their enemies.
Is this not written in the Book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and did not hasten to go down for about a whole day. 14 And there has been no day like that, before it or after it, that the LORD heeded the voice of a man; for the LORD fought for Israel.
who is the sun? i think i need to do a Hebrew or Greek word study on the word sun....
Malachi 4:2
But to you who fear My name The Sun of Righteousness shall arise With healing in His wings; And you shall go out And grow fat like stall-fed calves.
2 Peter 1:19
And so we have the prophetic word confirmed, which you do well to heed as a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts;
Revelation 22:16
“I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star.”
mmm....
joshua 10: 12?
12 Then Joshua spoke to the LORD in the day when the LORD delivered up the Amorites before the children of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel:
“Sun, stand still over Gibeon;
And Moon, in the Valley of Aijalon.” 13 So the sun stood still,
And the moon stopped,
Till the people had revenge
Upon their enemies.
Is this not written in the Book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and did not hasten to go down for about a whole day. 14 And there has been no day like that, before it or after it, that the LORD heeded the voice of a man; for the LORD fought for Israel.
who is the sun? i think i need to do a Hebrew or Greek word study on the word sun....
Malachi 4:2
But to you who fear My name The Sun of Righteousness shall arise With healing in His wings; And you shall go out And grow fat like stall-fed calves.
2 Peter 1:19
And so we have the prophetic word confirmed, which you do well to heed as a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts;
Revelation 22:16
“I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star.”
A
that the Bible is not so cut and dry. Sun in the Bible does not always refer to what the WORLD calls SUN. Sometimes the shadows and foretelling involves more then Shepherd and Child imagery. gotta read and pray some more. get back to you on it.
question: Who is the Light of the WORLD? Jesus or the thing in the sky we call the sun?
question: Who is the Light of the WORLD? Jesus or the thing in the sky we call the sun?
H
You and others like you need to download John McArthurs teachings on Creation found on GTY.org.
You also need to go to Answers in Genesis and read and listen to arguments on why GENESIS from chapter 1 is history expired from God to Moses on the mountain over 40 days. There is a warning in Colossians 2:8 "Do not let yourselves be captive to hallow and deceptive philosophy based on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Jesus Christ."
Compromising Evolution with God's word and making statements that you proclaim portions of the biblical history to be only story or allegory but then accepting supernatural events as the resurrecton and virgin birth as truth has no basis in any real thinking. You make Gen 1 creation to be story or allegory because you say science is now understood. But science also shows us a resurrection and virgin birth are impossible. Because of these reasoning and compromise is why so many people are running from Christianity. 70% of Evangelical Christian youth will leave the church and the primary reason is exactly what I am discussing. Read the book, "Already Compromised" where a statistical study has been done.
Science has NEVER proven Evolution and in fact if you read Dr. Werner Gitt's book without excuse you will find scientific laws of UI Universal Information based on code that apply to life and deem evolution completely false and contradicts natural laws of science in information well defined by Gitt.
I have studied Biblical Creation vs evolution for 40 years now and have discussed with many atheists and university professors and I assure they there is NO PROOF for millions of years at all, none. There are many well told stories about an old earth but much more concreate science for a young earth. Are you will to open and investigate this? You and many others will be amazed and surprised. This information is withheld in schools and scientists who openly state their biblical creation ideas lose their jobs because powerful, evil forces, well funded, are willing to do anything for the anti-Creator religion of naturalism.
I beg you to study. If you are close to Cinnatti visit the Creation museum. You can start by visiting the Answers in Genesis and Creation Ministries Internatilon websites and search on a topic you question or find to be absolute such as the age of the earth by radiometric dating (not carbon dating because it only works on 1000's of years contrary to most opinions).
I admonish you to promote the complete truth of God's. Expired Word.
You also need to go to Answers in Genesis and read and listen to arguments on why GENESIS from chapter 1 is history expired from God to Moses on the mountain over 40 days. There is a warning in Colossians 2:8 "Do not let yourselves be captive to hallow and deceptive philosophy based on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Jesus Christ."
Compromising Evolution with God's word and making statements that you proclaim portions of the biblical history to be only story or allegory but then accepting supernatural events as the resurrecton and virgin birth as truth has no basis in any real thinking. You make Gen 1 creation to be story or allegory because you say science is now understood. But science also shows us a resurrection and virgin birth are impossible. Because of these reasoning and compromise is why so many people are running from Christianity. 70% of Evangelical Christian youth will leave the church and the primary reason is exactly what I am discussing. Read the book, "Already Compromised" where a statistical study has been done.
Science has NEVER proven Evolution and in fact if you read Dr. Werner Gitt's book without excuse you will find scientific laws of UI Universal Information based on code that apply to life and deem evolution completely false and contradicts natural laws of science in information well defined by Gitt.
I have studied Biblical Creation vs evolution for 40 years now and have discussed with many atheists and university professors and I assure they there is NO PROOF for millions of years at all, none. There are many well told stories about an old earth but much more concreate science for a young earth. Are you will to open and investigate this? You and many others will be amazed and surprised. This information is withheld in schools and scientists who openly state their biblical creation ideas lose their jobs because powerful, evil forces, well funded, are willing to do anything for the anti-Creator religion of naturalism.
I beg you to study. If you are close to Cinnatti visit the Creation museum. You can start by visiting the Answers in Genesis and Creation Ministries Internatilon websites and search on a topic you question or find to be absolute such as the age of the earth by radiometric dating (not carbon dating because it only works on 1000's of years contrary to most opinions).
I admonish you to promote the complete truth of God's. Expired Word.
I believe the Bible is the literal truth.
Simply because we are called to this.
Just as we no longer are of flesh, but alive in Jesus.
For there is the truth that the world believes and lives by.
We in Jesus live the truth that is eternal, not of the world.
When one has set aside the flesh, the world for Jesus.
One sees the bible as all truth given through faith.
God bless.
pickles
Simply because we are called to this.
Just as we no longer are of flesh, but alive in Jesus.
For there is the truth that the world believes and lives by.
We in Jesus live the truth that is eternal, not of the world.
When one has set aside the flesh, the world for Jesus.
One sees the bible as all truth given through faith.
God bless.
pickles