Ponder the Parallel...

[Wansvic]

There are striking parallels related to natural birth and the spiritual rebirth. And one is specifically related to vision. In both cases, the baby leaves darkness and enters into light upon exiting the water of the womb. (John 3:3) A newborn babies' eye sight is limited upon entering its new world of existence. Vision develops gradually over time. It takes newborns several months to begin to see clearly. The same principle holds true for born again believers. The ability to SEE/comprehend and apply God's principles is an ungoing journey. (John 15:5, 16:13)

"Birth to 1 Month: Newborns can see blurry shapes and distinguish between light and dark. They can focus on objects about 8-12 inches away.
2-3 Months: Babies can start to see more detail and recognize bright colors. Their focus improves, and they can track objects more easily.
4-6 Months: Most babies can see clearly by this age. They have developed depth perception and can distinguish between fine shades of color.
12 Months and Beyond: By their first birthday, most babies' vision is similar to an adult's. Their eyes continue to develop and refine throughout childhood." (Internet info)

 

[Ouch]

There are striking parallels related to natural birth and the spiritual rebirth. And one is specifically related to vision. In both cases, the baby leaves darkness and enters into light upon exiting the water of the womb. (John 3:3) A newborn babies' eye sight is limited upon entering its new world of existence. Vision develops gradually over time. It takes newborns several months to begin to see clearly. The same principle holds true for born again believers. The ability to SEE/comprehend and apply God's principles is an ungoing journey. (John 15:5, 16:13)

"Birth to 1 Month: Newborns can see blurry shapes and distinguish between light and dark. They can focus on objects about 8-12 inches away.
2-3 Months: Babies can start to see more detail and recognize bright colors. Their focus improves, and they can track objects more easily.
4-6 Months: Most babies can see clearly by this age. They have developed depth perception and can distinguish between fine shades of color.
12 Months and Beyond: By their first birthday, most babies' vision is similar to an adult's. Their eyes continue to develop and refine throughout childhood." (Internet info)

Key thing to seeing is BEING REBORN.

Believe, repent, get baptized in JESUS name for remission of sins and when JESUS fills you with HIS spirit like he did HIS disciples in Acts 2:4 it will open your eyes like it did theirs.

Thank you for sharing.

 

[TruthDefender]

There are striking parallels related to natural birth and the spiritual rebirth. And one is specifically related to vision. In both cases, the baby leaves darkness and enters into light upon exiting the water of the womb. (John 3:3) A newborn babies' eye sight is limited upon entering its new world of existence. Vision develops gradually over time. It takes newborns several months to begin to see clearly. The same principle holds true for born again believers. The ability to SEE/comprehend and apply God's principles is an ungoing journey. (John 15:5, 16:13)

"Birth to 1 Month: Newborns can see blurry shapes and distinguish between light and dark. They can focus on objects about 8-12 inches away.
2-3 Months: Babies can start to see more detail and recognize bright colors. Their focus improves, and they can track objects more easily.
4-6 Months: Most babies can see clearly by this age. They have developed depth perception and can distinguish between fine shades of color.
12 Months and Beyond: By their first birthday, most babies' vision is similar to an adult's. Their eyes continue to develop and refine throughout childhood." (Internet info)

Good analogy. [(“ongoing”) journey]

-“For everyone who partakes only of milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, for he is a babe.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭5‬:‭13‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

 

[PaulThomson]

“For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8‬:‭6‬-‭10‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

You don’t have to read into anything (whatever that means).
It’s pretty basic and simple to understand, unless you’re trying to twist it into something else.(?)

Romans 8:6 says
Rom 8:6
For to be carnally minded is death (τὸ γὰρ φρόνημα τῆς σαρκὸς θάνατος, the mind of the flesh is death; or the fleshly mind is death) ; but to be spiritually minded (the mind of the spirit; or the spiritual mind) is life and peace.
8:6 τὸ γὰρ φρόνημα τῆς σαρκὸς θάνατος τὸ δὲ φρόνημα τοῦ πνεύματος ζωὴ καὶ εἰρήνη·
Romans 8:13 says
Rom 8:13
For if ye live ( ζῆτε , present active indicative, you are presently in the process of living) after the flesh, ye shall (μέλλετε , present active indicative, you are going) die: (present active infinitive , to keep on dying); but if ye through the Spirit do mortify (θανατοῦτε , present active indicative, (you keep on putting to death, or you are presently putting to death) the deeds of the body, ye shall live (ζήσεσθε, future middle deponent indicative, you shall be living) .
8:13 εἰ γὰρ κατὰ σάρκα ζῆτε μέλλετε ἀποθνῄσκειν· εἰ δὲ πνεύματι τὰς πράξεις τοῦ σώματος θανατοῦτε ζήσεσθε

Rom. 8:6 says the carnal mind is death.
Rom. 8:13 says that if you are presently living according to what characterises flesh, you are going to keep on dying. So, "you are going to keep on dying" here means the same thing as "the body is dead" meant in verse 8:10. And it also says that if we enlst the Holy Spirit's power to override the things the body wants to do, we will be truly living now, and we will be living without a physical body even after our bodies die, and we will be living in redeemed physical bodies at the resurrection.

So, I do not see this passage as affirming anything regarding the concepts of "spiritual death" and "spiritually dead".
It seems clear that the expression "the fleshly mind is death", and the expression "if you are living according to the flesh you are going to die" both mean the same thing. They both refer to physical death. Telling a live man "You are a dead man" means you are certainly going to die, if you carry on the way you are going. There is no need to insert some idea of "spiritual death" into Romans 8.

 

[TruthDefender]

Romans 8:6 says
Rom 8:6
For to be carnally minded is death (τὸ γὰρ φρόνημα τῆς σαρκὸς θάνατος, the mind of the flesh is death; or the fleshly mind is death) ; but to be spiritually minded (the mind of the spirit; or the spiritual mind) is life and peace.
8:6 τὸ γὰρ φρόνημα τῆς σαρκὸς θάνατος τὸ δὲ φρόνημα τοῦ πνεύματος ζωὴ καὶ εἰρήνη·
Romans 8:13 says
Rom 8:13
For if ye live ( ζῆτε , present active indicative, you are presently in the process of living) after the flesh, ye shall (μέλλετε , present active indicative, you are going) die: (present active infinitive , to keep on dying); but if ye through the Spirit do mortify (θανατοῦτε , present active indicative, (you keep on putting to death, or you are presently putting to death) the deeds of the body, ye shall live (ζήσεσθε, future middle deponent indicative, you shall be living) .
8:13 εἰ γὰρ κατὰ σάρκα ζῆτε μέλλετε ἀποθνῄσκειν· εἰ δὲ πνεύματι τὰς πράξεις τοῦ σώματος θανατοῦτε ζήσεσθε

Rom. 8:6 says the carnal mind is death.
Rom. 8:13 says that if you are presently living according to what characterises flesh, you are going to keep on dying. So, "you are going to keep on dying" here means the same thing as "the body is dead" meant in verse 8:10. And it also says that if we enlst the Holy Spirit's power to override the things the body wants to do, we will be truly living now, and we will be living without a physical body even after our bodies die, and we will be living in redeemed physical bodies at the resurrection.

So, I do not see this passage as affirming anything regarding the concepts of "spiritual death" and "spiritually dead".
It seems clear that the expression "the fleshly mind is death", and the expression "if you are living according to the flesh you are going to die" both mean the same thing. They both refer to physical death. Telling a live man "You are a dead man" means you are certainly going to die, if you carry on the way you are going. There is no need to insert some idea of "spiritual death" into Romans 8.

I believe you’re missing the meaning of the verses. Yes, it means spiritual death.

If you profess to follow Christ but are living in sin, then you are spiritually dead.
You have separated yourself from Christ; you’re being worldly. Simple concept!

 

[PaulThomson]

I believe you’re missing the meaning of the verses. Yes, it means spiritual death.

If you profess to follow Christ but are living in sin, then you are spiritually dead.
You have separated yourself from Christ; you’re being worldly. Simple concept!

But Paul says in Romans 8:10 -

Rom 8:10
And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
8:10 εἰ δὲ Χριστὸς ἐν ὑμῖν τὸ μὲν σῶμα νεκρὸν δι᾽ ἁμαρτίαν τὸ δὲ πνεῦμα ζωὴ διὰ δικαιοσύνην.

According to v, 10, the body of a Christian is physically dead (sentenced to the first death) because of what characterises sin: that is, the body of a Christian is liable to an imminent physical death because of the consequences of Adam's sin. And according to v. 13, if you are living according to what characterises flesh (κατὰ σάρκα), you are going to die. that is, if you are living in union with Adam, you are liable to an imminent death, because of the consequences of Adam's sin. But if you are enlisting the Holy Spirit, who is present in your spirit, to subdue your bodily instincts, you will do righteousness in the present by faith in Him working in you, and you will reap glory, honour and immortality at the resurrection.

Rom 8:13
For if ye live ( ζῆτε , present active indicative, you are presently in the process of living) after the flesh, ye shall die: ( μέλλετε ἀποθνῄσκειν, present active indicative + present active infinitive , you are going to keep on dying); but if ye through the Spirit do mortify (θανατοῦτε , present active indicative, (you keep on putting to death, or you are presently putting to death) the deeds of the body, ye shall live (ζήσεσθε , future middle deponent indicative, you shall be living)
8:13 εἰ γὰρ κατὰ σάρκα ζῆτε μέλλετε ἀποθνῄσκειν· εἰ δὲ πνεύματι τὰς πράξεις τοῦ σώματος θανατοῦτε ζήσεσθε.

If you want to understand Paul as meaning "spiritual death of the body", in verse 10, that's fine by me. But that is not the only possible sense of verse 10. Paul could mean physical death of the body, referring to it as inevitable .death of the Christian's body. Why mandate an extra-biblical term (spiritually dead) when the Bible speaks of death as a physical reality, and "physical death" makes at least as much sense as "spiritual death" where "death" is mentioned?

 

[TruthDefender]

Romans 8:6 says
Rom 8:6
For to be carnally minded is death (τὸ γὰρ φρόνημα τῆς σαρκὸς θάνατος, the mind of the flesh is death; or the fleshly mind is death) ; but to be spiritually minded (the mind of the spirit; or the spiritual mind) is life and peace.
8:6 τὸ γὰρ φρόνημα τῆς σαρκὸς θάνατος τὸ δὲ φρόνημα τοῦ πνεύματος ζωὴ καὶ εἰρήνη·
Romans 8:13 says
Rom 8:13
For if ye live ( ζῆτε , present active indicative, you are presently in the process of living) after the flesh, ye shall (μέλλετε , present active indicative, you are going) die: (present active infinitive , to keep on dying); but if ye through the Spirit do mortify (θανατοῦτε , present active indicative, (you keep on putting to death, or you are presently putting to death) the deeds of the body, ye shall live (ζήσεσθε, future middle deponent indicative, you shall be living) .
8:13 εἰ γὰρ κατὰ σάρκα ζῆτε μέλλετε ἀποθνῄσκειν· εἰ δὲ πνεύματι τὰς πράξεις τοῦ σώματος θανατοῦτε ζήσεσθε

Rom. 8:6 says the carnal mind is death.
Rom. 8:13 says that if you are presently living according to what characterises flesh, you are going to keep on dying. So, "you are going to keep on dying" here means the same thing as "the body is dead" meant in verse 8:10. And it also says that if we enlst the Holy Spirit's power to override the things the body wants to do, we will be truly living now, and we will be living without a physical body even after our bodies die, and we will be living in redeemed physical bodies at the resurrection.

So, I do not see this passage as affirming anything regarding the concepts of "spiritual death" and "spiritually dead".
It seems clear that the expression "the fleshly mind is death", and the expression "if you are living according to the flesh you are going to die" both mean the same thing. They both refer to physical death. Telling a live man "You are a dead man" means you are certainly going to die, if you carry on the way you are going. There is no need to insert some idea of "spiritual death" into Romans 8.

It means worldly mindedness is death vs spiritual mindedness in Christ.

You can’t have 2 masters, it never works.