1 John 2:19

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Hello ChristRoseFromTheDead, for clarity's sake, please explain what you mean a little more thoroughly, especially why you believe that salvation is something that we receive as a reward for our endurance, and how both of these can be true.

"not because salvation is the reward of endurance, but because endurance is the hallmark of the saved. "

It's specious reasoning because it takes two aspects of the same thing and claims that one aspect is not true in order to present the other aspect as the only truth. But in reality both aspects are true.

The reward for our endurance is the possession of our souls.

In your endurance you acquire your soul. Luke 21:19​

​

And the hallmark of those who are saved is endurance. So both of these aspects are true, but the above reasoning presents the idea that endurance is not necessary, whereas Jesus clearly said that it is.

So I hate and despise this kind of Christian reasoning that tries to hide and distort the truth through clever syntax

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Does that verse mean that all people who leave the faith were not believers?

John is writing to them because there were a lot of false teachers by this point trying to pull them away from Christs doctrine. It’s about false teachers purporting to be of the church and of God but weren’t they were teaching other things

It’s much clearer reading the entire chapter a few notes


“Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭2:18-19‬ ‭KJV‬‬
“These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭2:26‬ ‭

The apostles were constantly guarding the doctrine because there were so many false teachers

johns writings mention it again here

“For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: for he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.”
‭‭2 John‬ ‭1:7, 9-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Peter also writes about it

“But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭2:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

also paul

“For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; and they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭4:3-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

John is addressing bad doctrine that came to them and those who carry it

 

[GWH]

It’s very sad that you don’t know with certainty that you are saved… where is your faith?

The Holy Spirit will bear witness to your spirit if you are saved and reveal what God has prepared for those that love Him.

Just go ask God, in humility with all your heart seek Him and He will answer you and establish you in your faith in Him and all His promises.

No, it is very sad that you are not happy to walk by faith but instead pretend that you have infallible certainty about ultimate reality,
but where is your proof?
The HS does not bear witness in contradiction to GW.
Just go ask God in humility with all your heart to establish you in your faith so you will not be part of the wicked denomination that demands miraculous signs or believes they are a pope.
I would provide Scripture for these comments, but you will deny them as out of context, so why bother.

 

[Lafftur]

No, it is very sad that you are not happy to walk by faith but instead pretend that you have infallible certainty about ultimate reality,
but where is your proof?
The HS does not bear witness in contradiction to GW.
Just go ask God in humility with all your heart to establish you in your faith so you will not be part of the wicked denomination that demands miraculous signs or believes they are a pope.
I would provide Scripture for these comments, but you will deny them as out of context, so why bother.

So, what does it mean to walk by faith and not by sight?

 

[GWH]

So, what does it mean to walk by faith and not by sight?

Per Romans 8:23-39 it means to persevere in hoping that we will be redeemed or glorified or resurrected to heaven because of faith in Jesus and conviction that nothing will separate us from the love of God.

 

[Lafftur]

So, what does it mean to walk by faith and not by sight?

Per Romans 8:23-39 it means to persevere in hoping that we will be redeemed or glorified or resurrected to heaven because of faith in Jesus and conviction that nothing will separate us from the love of God.

Per the scripture 2 Corinthians 5:1-8, we can be absolutely certain that we are saved and will receive eternal life in Jesus Christ:

For we know that if our earthly house, this tent, is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed with our habitation which is from heaven, if indeed, having been clothed, we shall not be found naked.

For we who are in this tent groan, being burdened, not because we want to be unclothed, but further clothed, that mortality may be swallowed up by life.

Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee.

So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord.

For we walk by faith, not by sight. We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passag...r.5.5,2Cor.5.6,2Cor.5.7,2Cor.5.8&version=NKJV

We walk by faith, not by sight because we KNOW what God has promised, He will do. We’re not “hoping” God will do it, we KNOW He will do it.

I am absolutely certain that I am saved and will inherit eternal life with an immortal body and forever be present in God’s presence, never parted from Him again.

This is God’s Work in me and it is marvelous!!! Hallelujah!!! Praise to Jesus Christ alone!!

 

[Edify]

The HS does not bear witness in contradiction to GW.

Can you prove this? How did she contradict GW?

Romans 8:16 The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God,

 

[GWH]

Per the scripture 2 Corinthians 5:1-8, we can be absolutely certain that we are saved and will receive eternal life in Jesus Christ:

For we know that if our earthly house, this tent, is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed with our habitation which is from heaven, if indeed, having been clothed, we shall not be found naked.

For we who are in this tent groan, being burdened, not because we want to be unclothed, but further clothed, that mortality may be swallowed up by life.

Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee.

So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord.

For we walk by faith, not by sight. We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passag...r.5.5,2Cor.5.6,2Cor.5.7,2Cor.5.8&version=NKJV

We walk by faith, not by sight because we KNOW what God has promised, He will do. We’re not “hoping” God will do it, we KNOW He will do it.

I am absolutely certain that I am saved and will inherit eternal life with an immortal body and forever be present in God’s presence, never parted from Him again.

This is God’s Work in me and it is marvelous!!! Hallelujah!!! Praise to Jesus Christ alone!!

Re "We know that while we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord, 7 for we walk by faith, not by sight": It is obvious that "know" here means being "certain that while we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord".

Re "So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord.
For we walk by faith, not by sight. We are confident, yes": Yes, confident; no, not absolutely certain. Just as I said in #31. Glad we finally agree.

 

[GWH]

Can you prove this? How did she contradict GW?

Romans 8:16 The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God,

Please read enough of the conversation to be able to post intelligently, because if you had done so
you would have seen that she obviously contradicted 2Cor. 5:7. Thanks.

 

[Blade]

Does that verse mean that all people who leave the faith were not believers?

They.. not talking about believers. One could use this about some that walk away never to come back. They were never one of us.. they tasted ..we drink as Christ said drink of Me.. living water.

 

[Lafftur]

Re "We know that while we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord, 7 for we walk by faith, not by sight": It is obvious that "know" here means being "certain that while we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord".

Re "So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord.
For we walk by faith, not by sight. We are confident, yes": Yes, confident; no, not absolutely certain. Just as I said in #31. Glad we finally agree.

I do NOT agree with you.

I am absolutely unshakably steadfastly certain I am saved and…

so thankful and filled with love for God - the Father, Son and Holy Spirit! How beautiful His Love is for me! WOW!

 

[Lafftur]

Hey everyone-

Just because someone is quoting scripture at you doesn’t mean they’re right…

remember, Satan used scripture when he tried to tempt Jesus Christ in the desert. Satan twisted scripture trying to convince Jesus to doubt He is the Son of God.

Do NOT doubt your salvation in Jesus Christ. Hold fast to your faith, knowing you are saved!

The Holy Spirit will bear witness to your spirit that you are saved.

 

[GWH]

I do NOT agree with you.

I am absolutely unshakably steadfastly certain I am saved and…

so thankful and filled with love for God - the Father, Son and Holy Spirit! How beautiful His Love is for me! WOW!

Oh crud!
So you have infallible certainty--another pope on CC.
Too bad you do not have faith!

 

[NightTwister]

Hey everyone-

Just because someone is quoting scripture at you doesn’t mean they’re right…

remember, Satan used scripture when he tried to tempt Jesus Christ in the desert. Satan twisted scripture trying to convince Jesus to doubt He is the Son of God.

Do NOT doubt your salvation in Jesus Christ. Hold fast to your faith, knowing you are saved!

The Holy Spirit will bear witness to your spirit that you are saved.

I'd rather know than hope. Thankfully, scripture says I can.

 

[Edify]

Oh crud!
So you have infallible certainty--another pope on CC.
Too bad you do not have faith!

1 John 5:13 English Standard Version
I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.

 

[GWH]

1 John 5:13 English Standard Version
I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.

Learn and be edified: "know" in the NT (harmonizing 1John 5:13 with 2Cor. 5:7) means "have reasonable confidence",
NOT "have infallible certainty"!

It should be noted that Paul had absolute certainty because of the miracle on the Damascus road,
but he realized that this was a rare and probably unique experience, so he wrote 2Cor. 5:7, which means
that claiming a Christian must have absolute certainty is a negative or wrong witness for Christ.

 

[Edify]

Learn and be edified: "know" in the NT (harmonizing 1John 5:13 with 2Cor. 5:7) means "have reasonable confidence",
NOT "have infallible certainty"!

It should be noted that Paul had absolute certainty because of the miracle on the Damascus road,
but he realized that this was a rare and probably unique experience, so he wrote 2Cor. 5:7, which means
that claiming a Christian must have absolute certainty is a negative or wrong witness for Christ.

1 John 5:13 English Standard Version
I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.

You simply don't understand, or don't care, that your straining at a gnat leaves you swallowing camels. Your pursuit is futile, useless. That make's you on the wrong side. It doesn't edify, it tears down.

 

[GWH]

You simply don't understand, or don't care, that your straining at a gnat leaves you swallowing camels. Your pursuit is futile, useless. That make's you on the wrong side. It doesn't edify, it tears down.

I bet you are wrong.

 

[Edify]

Since you continue to prove who/what you are, we will have no more conversation ... at all.

 

[GWH]

Since you continue to prove who/what you are, we will have no more conversation ... at all.

So Yesterday!