Free will verses permissive will

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StanDupp said:
In John 10:10 Jesus said the devil comes to steal, kill, and to destroy.

So when Cain killed Able this was obviously the devil's will that Cain was fulfilling.

If someone claimed it was God's will for Able to be killed by Cain then this would be claiming Jesus lied.
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well it could have been the same as devils will.

But I can't see that it was the active will of the devil inside of him.

The active will of the power of death was in him

The reason why I don't see it was the active will of the devil inside of him.

In my book there is absolutely no way God would say to the devil you can rule over sin
 
StanDupp said:
You said "in my book"

So you did not actually write a book?
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Yep it a saying for how I read the bible m,

And it can't be further from the truth

Would God say to say to devil sin is crouching at your door and it desires to have you and you can rule over it ?

Can't see it sir, can you

Seeing as the devil has already been judged and is now a totally lost cause
 
Permissive will verses the will of the flesh ( known as free will )

Since God can set you free from the power of death that means that the active will of the power of death is God's

Satan holds the power of death because he can have power in those who are under the active will of death.

The wages for sin declared God is death.

Which means Gods active will

Gods permissive will is

Only he can set a Person free from his active will of death inside a person
 
StanDupp said:
So you didn't author any books at all ???

You said "in your book" which leads others to believe you wrote a book.
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sir do you have anything to add if not, have you finished ?

Or would you like to discuss ?

Your choice sir but carrying on with this is silliness is pointless. Either you can' accept it's a saying or you just trolling.

Upto you sir

Either way wise up, it's up to you , you can continue to shine your ignorance further. Or you can mark your own cards the right way with me

I won't give you a third chance
 
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Good day again folks just thought I would request another attempt

Today's food is a good question

We know that Jesus often taught in parables and there was always a message that often gets missed.

I wonder in my search for soul searching could I find a soul that could answer a souls searching question I was asked a long time again.

Here's the question


Jesus said in reply, “O unbelieving and perverse generation, how much longer shall I remain with you? How much longer must I put up with you? Bring the boy here to me.” 18 Then Jesus rebuked the demon, and it came out of the boy, and he was cured from that very moment.

19 Then the disciples came to Jesus and asked him privately, “Why were we not able to cast it out?” 20 He answered, “Because you have such little faith. Amen, I say to you, if you have faith as tiny as a mustard seed, you will be able to say to this mountain: ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you. [


The question is,

in scripture the passage before the lords faith has no problem casting the bad spirit out.
But yet the people with very little faith could not.

Then Jesus said if you have faith the size of a mustard seed you will be able to tell things to move, is he saying and they will obey ? Must be surely

My thoughts are well Jesus is saying if you have my faith living in you, because obviously a seed is a gift given internally when expressed by Jesus. Is he saying the demon would of obeyed.

But is he also saying if you have my faith you would also obey me ?

Because obviously the demon obeyed Jesus, so who's faith did they have at that stage ? When the demon didn't obey
 
Jordon said:
I wonder in my search for soul searching could I find a soul that could answer a souls searching question I was asked a long time again.
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Have you checked in with the Holy Ghost asking Him to lead you to where the answer can be found in God's Word?

Asking people in most cases leads to confusion and false doctrine.

Ask the Holy Ghost for the answer found in God's Word for the win!
 
StanDupp said:
In John 10:10 Jesus said the devil comes to steal, kill, and to destroy.

So when Cain killed Able this was obviously the devil's will that Cain was fulfilling.

If someone claimed it was God's will for Able to be killed by Cain then this would be claiming Jesus lied.
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No, it wouldn’t.

Jesus did not say, “The only entity capable of committing murder is the devil” but that’s what you are asserting.

Did you overlook the fact that Cain had his own will? His actions may have been consistent with the devil’s will, but that doesn’t mean “the devil made him do it”.
 
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Jordon said:
The question is,

in scripture the passage before the lords faith has no problem casting the bad spirit out.
But yet the people with very little faith could not.

Then Jesus said if you have faith the size of a mustard seed you will be able to tell things to move, is he saying and they will obey ? Must be surely

My thoughts are well Jesus is saying if you have my faith living in you, because obviously a seed is a gift given internally when expressed by Jesus. Is he saying the demon would of obeyed.

But is he also saying if you have my faith you would also obey me ?

Because obviously the demon obeyed Jesus, so who's faith did they have at that stage ? When the demon didn't obey
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Obviously their faith had not grown yet which is why Jesus said "oh you of little faith"

Jesus said the Kingdom of God is like a man that has seed and casts it in to the ground in Mark 4:26

If you'll read Mark 4:13-20 Jesus explains this in more detail including things that choke God's Word out of a person if these things are allowed to enter in which is why His disciples were unable to cast the devil out.
 
Dino246 said:
Did you overlook the fact that Cain had his own will?
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I never said the devil "made" him do it, but none the less Cain was being influenced by the devil to not only think of murdering Able but to actually carry those thoughts out and commit the murder

Yes mankind has free will and the devil's game is seeking to influence man to exercise his free will to disobey the Lord.

When man disobeys the Lord then at that point man is doing the will of the devil

So, what Jesus said in John 10:10 remains true regardless of whether anybody wants to believe what the Lord said or not.

Those that do not believe what Jesus said in John 10:10 are being influenced by the devil to consider what Jesus says to be a lie.

This is how the devil operates as we saw in the garden of eden in that he seeks to influence people to not believe what the Lord says.
 
StanDupp said:
I never said the devil "made" him do it, but none the less Cain was being influenced by the devil to not only think of murdering Able but to actually carry those thoughts out and commit the murder
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Where is that in Scripture?

StanDupp said:
So, what Jesus said in John 10:10 remains true regardless of whether anybody wants to believe what the Lord said or not.

Those that do not believe what Jesus said in John 10:10 are being influenced by the devil to consider what Jesus says to be a lie.
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This is not about not believing what Jesus said, as you imply, but rather accepting at face value what the text says instead of injecting things from other places.

Just because someone disagrees with your interpretation of Scripture doesn’t mean they think Jesus is lying. That’s a ridiculous and arrogant claim.

StanDupp said:
This is how the devil operates as we saw in the garden of eden in that he seeks to influence people to not believe what the Lord says.
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He does, but again, humans are wicked on their own and don’t need the active influence of the devil to disobey the Lord or reject His word.
 
StanDupp said:
Obviously their faith had not grown yet which is why Jesus said "oh you of little faith"

Jesus said the Kingdom of God is like a man that has seed and casts it in to the ground in Mark 4:26

If you'll read Mark 4:13-20 Jesus explains this in more detail including things that choke God's Word out of a person if these things are allowed to enter in which is why His disciples were unable to cast the devil out.
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Was it there faith they had or the lords faith

Firstly Jesus addresses them as having little faith

Then Jesus said if you had faith the size of a mustard seed

So look at two classifications

He saying there little faith they have is different to the faith they can have.

Then look at the classifications again

So do they have the faith of his mustard seed yet ?
 
Truly, truly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the earth and dies, it remains alone; but if it dies, it bears much fruit
 
Dino246 said:
humans are wicked on their own and don’t need the active influence of the devil to disobey the Lord or reject His word.
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They are wicked because they reject the Lord, and as such they are being influenced by the devil daily to continually reject the Lord.

In 2 Corinthians 4:4 the Word of the Lord tells us the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them

This Truth applies to Cain as he rejected the Lord not being in faith which lead to his own blindness and apparently some have issues believing the devil works to continually keep people from turning to the Lord as we see taught in 2 Corinthians 4:4

Ya gotta get in toe the New Testament to get enough revelation to understand some of what went on in the old testament.




Jordon said:
Was it there faith they had or the lords faith
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It was the Lord's faith but since according to Jesus God's Kingdom works on seedtime harvest principle, the faith they had was still small and needed to grow



Jordon said:
Firstly Jesus addresses them as having little faith

Then Jesus said if you had faith the size of a mustard seed

So look at two classifications
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No, Jesus was explaining HOW to use faith

Just like a seed, faith in God's Word must be planted and must grow up in order to bare fruit.

Read Mark 4:13-20
 
StanDupp said:
They are wicked because they reject the Lord, and as such they are being influenced by the devil daily to continually reject the Lord.

In 2 Corinthians 4:4 the Word of the Lord tells us the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them

This Truth applies to Cain as he rejected the Lord not being in faith which lead to his own blindness and apparently some have issues believing the devil works to continually keep people from turning to the Lord as we see taught in 2 Corinthians 4:4

Ya gotta get in toe the New Testament to get enough revelation to understand some of what went on in the old testament.






It was the Lord's faith but since according to Jesus God's Kingdom works on seedtime harvest principle, the faith they had was still small and needed to grow





No, Jesus was explaining HOW to use faith

Just like a seed, faith in God's Word must be planted and must grow up in order to bare fruit.

Read Mark 4:13-20
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so the faith the demon wouldn't obey was the lords faith ?

Are you sure


He told them another parable: “The kingdom of heaven is like a mustard seed, which a man took and planted in his field. 32 Though it is the smallest of all seeds, yet when it grows, it is the largest of garden plants and becomes a tree, so that the birds come and perch in its branches.”
 
Jordon said:
Truly, truly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the earth and dies, it remains alone; but if it dies, it bears much fruit
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Yep, that's part of Jesus' teaching on how to use they faith the Lord gives us when we get saved.

Faith comes by hearing and hearing comes by the Word of God - Romans 10:17

And then faith is planted by acing, speaking, thinking, believing that what God says is TRUE and we must resist the things Jesus tells us in Mark 4:13-20 that will choke God's Word
 
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