The Error is Baptism in Jesus name only for salvation

[DJT_47]

No, no, Cameron, the baby made a decision through it's own reasoning power and free will;
they chose their birth time, just as they chose to be conceived in the first place! .

The thief was forgiven by Christ as he forgave others while alive, under the OT! Baptism wasn't a requirement of salvation until Christ died, at which poitgd NT began. Read Hebrews 9:16-17

16For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. 17For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

It's a false argument trying to relate the thief on the cross with baptism.

 

[DavidLamb]

The thief was forgiven by Christ as he forgave others while alive, under the OT! Baptism wasn't a requirement of salvation until Christ died, at which poitgd NT began. Read Hebrews 9:16-17

16For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. 17For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

It's a false argument trying to relate the thief on the cross with baptism.

Baptism has never been a requirement to be fulfilled in order to be saved. Think of the number of times we read in the New Testament that belief came before baptism. The Ethiopian asked Philip for baptism, and Philip replied that if he believed with all his heart he could be baptised, The Ethiopian replied, "I believe that Jesus is the Son of God. Then he was baptised. So baptism isn't a requirement for salvation. Salvation is a requirement for baptism.

 

[Magenta]

The thief was forgiven by Christ as he forgave others while alive, under the OT! Baptism wasn't a requirement of salvation until Christ died, at which poitgd NT began. Read Hebrews 9:16-17

16For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. 17For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

It's a false argument trying to relate the thief on the cross with baptism.

Eh? None of that has anything to do with what I said.

Good thing I don't try to relate the thief on the cross with baptism.

In fact I am one of the FEW here who say we do not know whether he was baptized or not, and we do
not know because Scripture does not say, one way or the other. People make assumptions all over
the place and hang a lot more than their hats on them. That now appears to include you, as well.

 

[Lamar]

Baptism has never been a requirement to be fulfilled in order to be saved. Think of the number of times we read in the New Testament that belief came before baptism. The Ethiopian asked Philip for baptism, and Philip replied that if he believed with all his heart he could be baptised, The Ethiopian replied, "I believe that Jesus is the Son of God. Then he was baptised. So baptism isn't a requirement for salvation. Salvation is a requirement for baptism.

Of course belief comes before baptism. Who is suggesting the opposite?

Of course the Ethiopian was baptized after he believed. What are you attempting to prove?

Why would you baptize someone who already has the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit???

Acts 2:38

Peter answered them, “All of you must turn to God and change the way you think and act, and each of you must be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ so that your sins will be forgiven. Then you will receive the Holy Spirit as a gift.

 

[DJT_47]

Baptism has never been a requirement to be fulfilled in order to be saved. Think of the number of times we read in the New Testament that belief came before baptism. The Ethiopian asked Philip for baptism, and Philip replied that if he believed with all his heart he could be baptised, The Ethiopian replied, "I believe that Jesus is the Son of God. Then he was baptised. So baptism isn't a requirement for salvation. Salvation is a requirement for baptism.

Baptism is as much of a requirement of salvation as belief and repentance. Belief obviously is first, but that doesn't negate other requirements such as Baptism, repentance, or confession of your belief as also the Ethiopian did. 1 Peter 3:21 says baptism DOES save us.

 

[Believer08]

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Same Apostle below

Acts 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.

Repent/Repent and be baptized/converted for the remission of sins/that your sins may be blotted out, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost/times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.

Begotten/born again...through the resurrection of Jesus (I Pet.1:3)

Same Apostle below

baptism now saves you...through the resurrection of Jesus (I Pet.3:21)

1 Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead

1 Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ

Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. (Jn. 3:3)

Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. (Jn. 3:5)

One does not enter into the kingdom/body of Christ before they repent and are baptized (Acts 2:38, 41, 47; Jn. 3:5; 1 Cor. 12:13). It is only after one obeys the gospel that they are then added to the body.

The word of God speaks for itself (Heb. 4:12), and honest seekers will see the truth of this subject (Lk. 8:15; Acts 17:11).

 

[DeanM]

And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. John 10:28

 

[DavidLamb]

Of course belief comes before baptism. Who is suggesting the opposite?

Because I was replying to a post which said: "The thief was forgiven by Christ as he forgave others while alive, under the OT! Baptism wasn't a requirement of salvation until Christ died...." Saying that Baptism wasn't a requirement until Christ died surely means that the poster believes that it became a requirement for salvation after the crucifixion.

Of course the Ethiopian was baptized after he believed. What are you attempting to prove?

It was merely an example from the bible of baptism coming after belief.

Why would you baptize someone who already has the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit???

Acts 2:38

Peter answered them, “All of you must turn to God and change the way you think and act, and each of you must be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ so that your sins will be forgiven. Then you will receive the Holy Spirit as a gift.

Now you've confused me. You started your post: "f course belief comes before baptism." Now you ask: " Why would you baptize someone who already has the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit???" But surely it is those who believe on the Lord Jesus Christ who have remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit.

 

[DJT_47]

Because I was replying to a post which said: "The thief was forgiven by Christ as he forgave others while alive, under the OT! Baptism wasn't a requirement of salvation until Christ died...." Saying that Baptism wasn't a requirement until Christ died surely means that the poster believes that it became a requirement for salvation after the crucifixion.


It was merely an example from the bible of baptism coming after belief.



Now you've confused me. You started your post: "f course belief comes before baptism." Now you ask: " Why would you baptize someone who already has the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit???" But surely it is those who believe on the Lord Jesus Christ who have remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Yes, I, the poster you mentioned above, do absolutely mean what you cited; that baptism as part of salvation, didn't come into play until after the death of Christ, consistent with the Hebrews passage i quoted, and for very obvious reasons, i.e., you couldn't be baptized into Christ, his death, nor have his blood cleanse you until he was dead and his blood was shed. The scriptures speak for themselves, simply recited them for those who aren't aware or lack understanding.

 

[Believer08]

Yes, I, the poster you mentioned above, do absolutely mean what you cited; that baptism as part of salvation, didn't come into play until after the death of Christ, consistent with the Hebrews passage i quoted, and for very obvious reasons, i.e., you couldn't be baptized into Christ, his death, nor have his blood cleanse you until he was dead and his blood was shed. The scriptures speak for themselves, simply recited them for those who aren't aware or lack understanding.

Amen.

 

[Believer08]

The error is saying you do not have to be baptized for the remission of sins.

 

[Beckworth]

And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. John 10:28

Of course He gives eternal life to His sheep; they are the “saved.” In that passage He talks about “thieves” and “robbers” stealing the sheep and reassures us that no one ( person, thief, robber, any man) can take them away from Him. However, Luke 15 is another illustration about Jesus and his sheep, and this time one of His sheep leaves of his own free will. Thus proving the fact that a saved person can of their own free will leave the “fold” of Christ and wander away. Christ does not hold any power over them to keep them from leaving if they so choose.

God does not want “slaves” or “robots” to serve Him. He wants those who want to serve Him willingly because they love Him.

 

[mailmandan]

The thief was forgiven by Christ as he forgave others while alive, under the OT! Baptism wasn't a requirement of salvation until Christ died, at which poitgd NT began. Read Hebrews 9:16-17

16For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. 17For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

It's a false argument trying to relate the thief on the cross with baptism.

That's one of the arguments made in an attempt to "get around" the fact that the thief on the cross was saved through faith with no opportunity to be baptized afterwards. The other argument is, "how do we know the thief was not previously baptized?" Now certain folks may try to argue that the thief on the cross may have been converted, was water baptized, yet the fruit of that is being crucified as a thief? - (highly unlikely)

In Matthew 27:39-44, we see that those who passed by, along with the chief priests' scribes and elders blasphemed, mocked and shook their heads at Jesus and EVEN THE ROBBERS WHO WERE CRUCIFIED WITH HIM REVILED HIM WITH THE SAME THING. More fruit? I certainly don't see being crucified as a thief, blaspheming, mocking and shaking your head at Jesus as being the fruit of repentance/faith. Do you? (highly unlikely) Yet, moments later, we see that one of the thieves had a "change of mind" (repentance) placed his faith in Jesus Christ for salvation and was saved. (Luke 23:40-43) Of course, he died while still hanging on the cross before having the opportunity to be water baptized afterwards. That settles it for me.

In regard to Hebrews 9:16-17, the thief on the cross was still alive when Jesus died. Now prior to Jesus' death, we read that John the Baptist preached a "baptism of repentance for the remission of sins." (Mark 1:4; Luke 3:3) Now was this baptism for "in order to obtain" the remission of sins or was it for "in regard to/on the basis of the remission of sins" received upon repentance? Be careful. This is still OT, right? Also, in Matthew 3:11, we read - I baptize you with water for repentance.. Now if translated "in order to obtain" the verse does not make sense. I baptize you with water for "in order to obtain" repentance? OR I baptize you with water for "in regards to/on the basis of" repentance? Obviously, the latter. Baptism is in regard to/on the basis of the remission of sins received upon repentance. (Luke 24:47; Acts 3:19; 5:31)

Before AND after Jesus died on the cross, salvation is through belief/faith "apart from water baptism." (Genesis 15:6; Luke 7:50; 8:12; John 1:12; 3:15,16,18,36; 6:40,47; 11:25,26; Acts 10:43-47; 11:17-18; 13:38-39; 16:31; 26:18; Romans 1:16; 3:22-28; 4:2-6; 5:1; 10:4; 1 Corinthians 1:21; Galatians 2:16; 3:26; Ephesians 2:8,9; Philippians 3:9; 2 Timothy 3:15; 1 John 5:13 etc..).

 

[mailmandan]

The error is saying you do not have to be baptized for the remission of sins.

In Acts 2:38, "for the remission of sins" does not refer back to both clauses, "you all repent" and "each one of you be baptized," but refers only to the first. Peter is saying "repent unto the remission of your sins," the same as in Acts 3:19. The clause "each one of you be baptized" is parenthetical. This is exactly what Acts 3:19 teaches except that Peter omits the parenthesis.

*Also compare the fact that these Gentiles in Acts 10:45 received the gift of the Holy Spirit (compare with Acts 2:38 - the gift of the Holy Spirit) and this was BEFORE water baptism. (Acts 10:47)

In Acts 10:43 we read ..whoever believes in Him receives remission of sins. Again, these Gentiles received the gift of the Holy Spirit -Acts 10:45 - when they believed on the Lord Jesus Christ - Acts 11:17 - (compare with Acts 16:31 - Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved) BEFORE water baptism - Acts 10:47. This is referred to as repentance unto life - Acts 11:18.

Luke 24:47 - and that repentance for the forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem. *What happened to baptism?

Acts 3:19 - Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord. *What happened to baptism?

Acts 5:31 - Him God has exalted to His right hand to be Prince and Savior, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins. *What happened to baptism?

Acts 10:43 - Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins. *What happened to baptism?

Acts 11:17 - If therefore God gave them the same gift (Holy Spirit) as He gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could withstand God?” 18 When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God, saying, “Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance unto life.” *What happened to baptism?

Acts 13:38 - Therefore, let it be known to you, brethren, that through this Man is preached to you the forgiveness of sins; 39 and by Him everyone who believes is justified from all things from which you could not be justified by the law of Moses. *What happened to baptism?

Acts 15:7 - And when there had been much dispute, Peter rose up and said to them: “Men and brethren, you know that a good while ago God chose among us, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe. 8 So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us, 9 and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. *What happened to baptism?

Acts 16:30 - And he brought them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.” *What happened to baptism?

Acts 26:18 - to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me. *What happened to baptism? *Hermeneutics.

*So, the only logical conclusion when properly harmonizing scripture with scripture is that faith in Jesus Christ "implied in genuine repentance" (rather than water baptism) brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit. (Luke 24:47; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 13:38-39; 15:7-9; 16:31; 26:18) *Perfect Harmony*

 

[DJT_47]

That's one of the arguments made in an attempt to "get around" the fact that the thief on the cross was saved through faith with no opportunity to be baptized afterwards. The other argument is, "how do we know the thief was not previously baptized?" Now certain folks may try to argue that the thief on the cross may have been converted, was water baptized, yet the fruit of that is being crucified as a thief? - (highly unlikely)

In Matthew 27:39-44, we see that those who passed by, along with the chief priests' scribes and elders blasphemed, mocked and shook their heads at Jesus and EVEN THE ROBBERS WHO WERE CRUCIFIED WITH HIM REVILED HIM WITH THE SAME THING. More fruit? I certainly don't see being crucified as a thief, blaspheming, mocking and shaking your head at Jesus as being the fruit of repentance/faith. Do you? (highly unlikely) Yet, moments later, we see that one of the thieves had a "change of mind" (repentance) placed his faith in Jesus Christ for salvation and was saved. (Luke 23:40-43) Of course, he died while still hanging on the cross before having the opportunity to be water baptized afterwards. That settles it for me.

In regard to Hebrews 9:16-17, the thief on the cross was still alive when Jesus died. Now prior to Jesus' death, we read that John the Baptist preached a "baptism of repentance for the remission of sins." (Mark 1:4; Luke 3:3) Now was this baptism for "in order to obtain" the remission of sins or was it for "in regard to/on the basis of the remission of sins" received upon repentance? Be careful. This is still OT, right? Also, in Matthew 3:11, we read - I baptize you with water for repentance.. Now if translated "in order to obtain" the verse does not make sense. I baptize you with water for "in order to obtain" repentance? OR I baptize you with water for "in regards to/on the basis of" repentance? Obviously, the latter. Baptism is in regard to/on the basis of the remission of sins received upon repentance. (Luke 24:47; Acts 3:19; 5:31)

Before AND after Jesus died on the cross, salvation is through belief/faith "apart from water baptism." (Genesis 15:6; Luke 7:50; 8:12; John 1:12; 3:15,16,18,36; 6:40,47; 11:25,26; Acts 10:43-47; 11:17-18; 13:38-39; 16:31; 26:18; Romans 1:16; 3:22-28; 4:2-6; 5:1; 10:4; 1 Corinthians 1:21; Galatians 2:16; 3:26; Ephesians 2:8,9; Philippians 3:9; 2 Timothy 3:15; 1 John 5:13 etc..).

You obviously don't understand the difference in OT abd NT as explained by Hebrews 9. And you can try yo explain away the clear words of scripture by citing all your nonsense based upon other nonsense, but it ain't gonna work.

 

[mailmandan]

You obviously don't understand the difference in OT abd NT as explained by Hebrews 9. And you can try yo explain away the clear words of scripture by citing all your nonsense based upon other nonsense, but it ain't gonna work.

I see that you did not answer my questions.

 

[DJT_47]

I see that you did not answer my questions.

They are too dumb to waste time on

 

[mailmandan]

They are too dumb to waste time on

Too dumb are too telling?

 

[mailmandan]

They are too dumb to waste time on

Let's try it one more time. Was John's baptism of repentance for the remission of sins." (Mark 1:4; Luke 3:3) "in order to obtain" the remission of sins or was it for "in regard to/on the basis of the remission of sins" received upon repentance? Again, be careful. This is still OT, right?

Also, in Matthew 3:11, we read - I baptize you with water for repentance.. Now waa this baptism for "in order to obtain" repentance? OR for "in regards to/on the basis of" repentance?

Obviously, the latter. My answer: Baptism is in regard to/on the basis of the remission of sins received upon repentance. (Luke 24:47; Acts 3:19; 5:31) Whats your answer?

 

[mailmandan]

Let's try it one more time. Was John's baptism of repentance for the remission of sins." (Mark 1:4; Luke 3:3) "in order to obtain" the remission of sins or was it for "in regard to/on the basis of the remission of sins" received upon repentance? Again, be careful. This is still OT, right?

Also, in Matthew 3:11, we read - I baptize you with water for repentance.. Now waa this baptism for "in order to obtain" repentance? OR for "in regards to/on the basis of" repentance?

Obviously, the latter. My answer: Baptism is in regard to/on the basis of the remission of sins received upon repentance. (Luke 24:47; Acts 3:19; 5:31)

What is your answer?