Do protestants have a reasonable non-Roman-Catholic explanation for John 20:22-23?

[PaulThomson]

But I have documents showing Bishop of Rome did act as boss.
#337

Your and the pope's fixation with which servant is boss in the church is contrary to the teachings of Jesus.

Mat 23:8
But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.
Mat 23:9
And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
Mat 23:10
Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.
Mat 23:11
But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.
Mat 23:12
And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.

Mar 10:42
But Jesus called them to him, and saith unto them, Ye know that they which are accounted to rule over the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and their great ones exercise authority upon them.
Mar 10:43
But so shall it not be among you: but whosoever will be great among you, shall be your minister:
Mar 10:44
And whosoever of you will be the chiefest, shall be servant of all.
Mar 10:45
For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

 

[Magenta]

from Matthew 20 verses 25-28 (Mark 10 verses 43-45, Luke 22 verses 26-27) ~ Jesus said, “You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their superiors exercise authority over them. It shall not be this way among you. Instead, whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant, and whoever wants to be first among you must be your slave- just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life as a ransom for many.”

 

[beechan]

Your and the pope's fixation with which servant is boss in the church is contrary to the teachings of Jesus.

Mat 23:8
But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.
Mat 23:9
And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
Mat 23:10
Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.
Mat 23:11
But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.
Mat 23:12
And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.

Mar 10:42
But Jesus called them to him, and saith unto them, Ye know that they which are accounted to rule over the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and their great ones exercise authority upon them.
Mar 10:43
But so shall it not be among you: but whosoever will be great among you, shall be your minister:
Mar 10:44
And whosoever of you will be the chiefest, shall be servant of all.
Mar 10:45
For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

Rabbi in Hebrew means ' my teacher' or 'master'.
Explain to us why Jesus had no objection when disciples addressed him 'rabbi'
John 1:38; 4:31, 6:25, 9:2
Matthew 26:25
Mark 9:5; 11:21

 

[Aaron56]

It is you who say "all churches do it", particularly the Catholic Church.

The reality is bad apples are all around.
Let the figures tell the picture:
View attachment 281660
Clergy is not the higher category among sex offenders. Watch out for teachers, tutors!

You better look around to see how the real world is like, not living in your imagined world!

So institutional cover-up of child sexual abuse is common too? It’s not just a characteristic of the RCC?

 

[beechan]

Scripture says what scripture says. It does not say she remained a virgin. Nor does it say she had sex with Joseph after Jesus birth. What any commentator thinks was the case is mere speculation, surely.

Are you saying Luther, Calvin and Zwingli were not guided by Holy Spirit when they interpreted the scriptures?
Or your Holy Spirte is better then theirs?

 

[Aaron56]

Scripture says what scripture says. It does not say she remained a virgin. Nor does it say she had sex with Joseph after Jesus birth. What any commentator thinks was the case is mere speculation, surely.

Except the plain meaning of “brother” and “sister” implies she had other children.
Oh, and the plain meaning of “until”.
The RCC has to make up their own version of scripture to keep Mary celibate.

 

[Aaron56]

Are you saying Luther, Calvin and Zwingli were not guided by Holy Spirit when they interpreted the scriptures?
Or your Holy Spirte is better then theirs?

The Roman church hasn’t been guided by the Holy Spirit since it agreed to be the state Church of Rome around 380AD. That was their decision: to support the state and to say Caesar’s word was law.

 

[beechan]

PaulThomson said:
Scripture says what scripture says. It does not say she remained a virgin. Nor does it say she had sex with Joseph after Jesus birth. What any commentator thinks was the case is mere speculation, surely.

It happened to me that those ( Luther, Calvin and Zwingli ) put up the dogma of 'sola scripture' did not follow the scriptures by saying Mary is perpetual virgin in their teaching.

 

[beechan]

The Roman church hasn’t been guided by the Holy Spirit since it agreed to be the state Church of Rome around 380AD. That was their decision: to support the state and to say Caesar’s word was law.

Show me real historical facts, no just your imaginated history.

 

[beechan]

The Roman church hasn’t been guided by the Holy Spirit since it agreed to be the state Church of Rome around 380AD. That was their decision: to support the state and to say Caesar’s word was law.

Then were Jesus and the HOLY SPIRIT on leave or on vacation from 380AD until 1517?
wow...what a long vacation!

 

[beechan]

The Roman church hasn’t been guided by the Holy Spirit since it agreed to be the state Church of Rome around 380AD. That was their decision: to support the state and to say Caesar’s word was law.

You talked about history but you know nothing history!


390AD
Theodosius I (the same emperor who made Christianity the state religion) ordered a massacre of about 7,000 civilians in Thessalonica after a riot. St. Ambrose, Bishop of Milan, publicly rebuked Theodosius for this crime and refused him Communion until he repented.

 

[beechan]

Protestants left the RCC because they wanted to follow the bible only
.

Nope.....the doctrine 'sola scriptura' came long after Martin Luther had left the church, not the reason he left RCC.

 

[Aaron56]

Show me real historical facts, no just your imaginated history.

That’s what happens when you leave your original calling, representing Christ in the earth, and choose to represent the government of Rome.

Rome organized the church like their government: bishops were like governors of towns, cardinals (a station not found in scripture) like senators, and the “Holy Father” (a name reserved for God alone) was like Caesar.

 

[Aaron56]

Guys, the RCC is hemorrhaging pew sitters so they’ve taken to social media as an attempt to shore up members. They’re also hemorrhaging cash due to the restitution payouts for child sexual abuse.
Why do you think they elected a pope from the US? As an attempt to leverage US influence and resources.
They are a business. And they make decisions based on what preserves themselves and what makes money.

 

[beechan]

Rome organized the church like their government: bishops were like governors of towns, cardinals (a station not found in scripture) like senators, and the “Holy Father” (a name reserved for God alone) was like Caesar.

All human organisations display hierarchical management structure. Find me one that is not like that.

 

[Aaron56]

You talked about history but you know nothing history!


390AD
Theodosius I (the same emperor who made Christianity the state religion) ordered a massacre of about 7,000 civilians in Thessalonica after a riot. St. Ambrose, Bishop of Milan, publicly rebuked Theodosius for this crime and refused him Communion until he repented.

Oh, so a criminal mass murderer is sentenced to (checks notes) “not getting a sip of wine and a cracker”. That tracks for RCC judgement.

 

[Aaron56]

All human organisations display hierarchical management structure. Find me one that is not like that.

Bingo!

 

[Dino246]

All human organisations display hierarchical management structure. Find me one that is not like that.

Thanks for admitting that the Roman Catholic “church” is a human organization.

 

[Follower777]

Matthew 20:21‑23 (KJV)

21 And he said unto them, “Receive ye the power of the Holy Ghost; and whosoever shall sin, they shall be forgiven them.”​

22 And when he had said these things, he breathed on them, and saith, “Receive the Holy Ghost.”​

23 “Whose soever sins you remit, they are remitted to them; and whose soever sins you retain, they are retained.”​

1. The Promise of the Holy Spirit
Jesus tells the disciples that they will receive “the power of the Holy Ghost.” This promise fulfills the earlier prophecy in John 14:26 (“the Comforter…shall teach you all things”) and signals the transition from Jesus’ earthly ministry to the Spirit‑led work of the Church.

2. The Act of Breathing – Symbolic Transfer
Jesus “breathed on them,” a gesture reminiscent of God breathing life into Adam (Genesis 2:7). It underscores that the Holy Spirit is not an abstract force but a personal presence imparted through intimate contact.

3. Authority to Forgive Sins
Matt 20: 23 grants the disciples the authority to “remit” (forgive) or “retain” (withhold) sins. This authority is rooted in the apostolic commission: they act as representatives of Christ, exercising His judgment on earth.

4. Practical Implications for Believers Today;

1. Reliance on the Holy Spirit – Just as the first disciples were empowered, modern believers are called to depend on the Spirit for guidance, conviction, and boldness in sharing the gospel.
2. Responsibility of Ministry – The authority to forgive is exercised through preaching the good news and administering the sacraments (e.g., communion, baptism) that symbolize Christ’s atoning work.
3. Judgment Remains Divine – While we can proclaim forgiveness, the ultimate judgment belongs to God. Our role is to point people to Christ, who alone can remit sins.

5. Summary

• Jesus’ words in Matthew 20:21‑23 , announce the coming of the Holy Spirit, granting the apostles both power and authority. highlighting the Spirit’s role as Teacher and Sanctifier, the symbolic significance of Jesus’ breath, and the delegated nature of the apostles’ forgiving authority.
• For today’s Christians, the passage reminds us to seek the Spirit’s empowerment, to responsibly proclaim forgiveness, and to recognize that final judgment rests with the Father.

• ****************** ΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣ *****************

I came across a video lately by so fellow who left protestantism because he claimed no protestant commentaries had anything to say about John 20:22-23, but Roman Catholic scholars did, claiming that it gives special authority to ordained priests to forgive the sins of others in the Roman Catholic sacrament of confession. So, I thought this might be a good text to discuss here.

The disciples at this time received the gracious nature of the Holy Spirit from Jesus, since they had believed in their hearts He was risen from the dead and had confessed with their lips that Jesus is Lord. This grace enabled them to forgive one another and come into harmony and unity ready for Pentecost (Act 2:1), when the Holy Spirit would be released upon all flesh (Act 2:17) the Lord working through Him with the disciples, confirming the word of God with signs and wonders (Mar 16:20).

What “all flesh” means

1. Universal availability – The Spirit will be offered to every human being (“all flesh”) in the “last days.”
2. Conditional reception – The Spirit is received by those who respond in faith. The promise is fulfilled when individuals turn to Christ, repent, and are baptized (cf. Acts 2:38‑41; Romans 10:9‑10).
3. Empowerment for service – Those who receive the Spirit become gifted for ministry (prophecy, tongues, healing, etc.), just as the early believers did at Pentecost.

So, here in John 20, Jesus is giving the disciples the grace to let go of their grudges and resentment against one another. He is telling them that once you let go of someone's mark-missing, you can be assured that God has also forgiven that same mark-missing. But if you are holding on to your brother's or sister's shortcomings and not releasing them, you have taken upon yourself ownership of those same shortcomings in your own life, and you will be judged by God for them.

So, it is not about the apostles receiving a special apostolic declarative power to break sins off people, but it is about the Holy Spirit's grace at work in every believer, and every believer's responsibility to freely give the forgiveness they have freely received, in order to continue to freely receive forgiveness.

Friend ! It seems to me, that you are misapplying the concept of "grace" to replace the "authority" given the Disciples, corporately as the Church Body, ( by 2 or 3 witnesses ) a matter is determined (Duet 19:15) AND when 2 or 3 are gathered in the Name of Jesus,( Matt 18:20) ... the Church body, THEN being in one accord, (Acts 2:1), will have the authority, to forgive sin, per John 20:23-24 ... Where Jesus gave the apostles the authority ( power ) of Christ's Spirit, because of HIS Righteousness, (His right-doing, in relation to the Fathers Will,) = The Faith OF Jesus = His Holiness !! Praise His Holy Character ! = Name ! ( ref. Rev 14:12 KJV. not the NIV)

By two or three witnesses a matter is established, that by Faith, SIN is forgiven by the Spirit of Christ, presented by the Church, to the repentant sinner.

Rather than just "missing the mark", we NEED to call sin by it's correct name, SIN is the transgression of God's LAW ~ 1 John 3:4 ... SIN = is anti-Love ~ Matt 22:37 ... Sin = Not Loving Christ ~ John 15:14

& ~>John 16:7-9 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send him to you. And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: Of sin, because they believe not on me;

 

[PaulThomson]

Are you saying Luther, Calvin and Zwingli were not guided by Holy Spirit when they interpreted the scriptures?
Or your Holy Spirte is better then theirs?

The Holy Spirit wants to guide all who read scripture. But we do not all listen to Him all the time. The one and the same shepherd may have different sheep who ignore and wander away from the sound of His voice at times and think they are thinking clever thoughts about scripture which are their own imaginations.

Jas 3:1
Dear brothers and sisters, not many of you should become teachers in the church, for we who teach will be judged more strictly.
Jas 3:2
Indeed, we all make many mistakes. For if we could control our tongues, we would be perfect and could also control ourselves in every other way.