Does Jesus and Paul contradict each other?

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Nufan said:
God using a "lying spirit" to deceive King Ahab and claiming to have deceived prophets in verses like Ezekiel 14:9. These instances are often interpreted as God using deception as a judgment or a means to accomplish his purposes, especially against those who have rejected him.
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What makes you think that it couldn't be you?
 
The holy spirit doesn't let a clean man be convicted, or leave him confused about God.
 
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Jordon said:
Is he well they don't read it that way most of the time.

They read it as they can use it against others
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I love this thank you. So many people against me I just jump the gun somtimes. In case you're interested the Jewish view of the afterlife, when tying it to gahenna has to do with the purification process of repentance, and so they have one year after the time they die to repent of all the wrongs and offenses that they have committed against God. If they do , then they will be restored with a new body and allowed to live in the garden of eden , as it was before the fall. This is where new jerusalem cones in. If they refuse to repent for everything then they're unsure of what happens, they speculated on the transmigration of the soul, which is reincarnation, or that one would die because it doesn't have a body to live in, which they believe a body is necessary for the soul to live. They don't believe in an eternal torment and punishment, and we can get into what the actual word for eternal means in the Bible. The word they use means eternal aeon. So if you break this down properly, then essentially it's eternal unspecified amount of time. And if you look into the Eastern orthodox, which is the tradition that was followed before roman cathalism, they also don't have any understanding of what would happen to the soul if it refuses to repent after death, they believe that wherever God is is paradise. Because that's where eternal life and God's love is, and that even in hell god is there. So, therefore, that means that if they hate God and don't want to accept his love.Then it will be a hell for them no matter where they go, but there is no distinction within their faith that there is an eternal separation from God.Or an eternal torment. Actually if you want to look into when they started believing in this eternal separation and torment you can look into Spinoza.He basically dials in when this belife entered the catholic church and that it's actually a heresy and not based on truth. The Catholic Church essentially was saying that we have the truth. And we are the authentic church and we come from apostolic succession. And it's only through our guidance and our interpretation of the scripture and our sacraments that you can be saved. Therefore, if you refuse, then you will spend eternity and hell. This was a fear tactic to blackmail people into the faith. This is not rooted in love.
 
Me_Clay said:
Why did you say that?


Why did you say that?
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Well didn't you know that Yahweh is a Canaanite god. Yah thats right so is El Elyon. The Jews and Canaanites were fighting over land and who had the superior God of the same pantheon.
 
From reform Judaism

  1. There is an afterlife: Texts from every era in Jewish life identify a world where people go when they die. In the Bible it’s an underworld called Sheol. In the rabbinic tradition it’s known by a number of names, including the yeshiva shel mallah, the school on high. The Hebrew word for skies, shamayim, also came to refer to heaven.
  2. Heaven has open door policy: Heaven is not a gated community. The righteous of any people and any faith have a place in it. Our actions, not our specific beliefs, determine our fate. No concept of Hell exists in Judaism. The closest we get is the fate of apostate (a person who renounces God, faith and morality in this world), who is said to be “cut off from his kin.”
  3. The afterlife can take many forms: Professor A.J. Levine expresses this truth most eloquently: “Jewish beliefs in the afterlife are as diverse as Judaism itself, from the traditional view expecting the unity of flesh and spirit in a resurrected body, to the idea that we live on in our children and grandchildren, to a sense of heaven (perhaps with lox and bagels rather than harps and haloes).”
  4. The afterlife is here on earth: One strand of Jewish thought sees heaven as a transitory place where souls reside after death. They reside there until they reunite with their physical bodies at the time when the Messiah comes. This approach differs from reincarnation since the return to life happens only in the messianic era, not as a regular occurrence, as in Hinduism.
  5. We live on through others: The Reform Jewish prayerbook expresses this idea through the metaphor of a leaf and a tree. A leaf drops to the ground, but it nourishes the soil so more plants and trees spring up. The same is true in our lives. We nourish the future through the influence we have on those who follow us. It can happen in unimaginable ways.
 
Ceph said:
If it all wasn't written by the same Holy Spirit, then there isn't a bible that's made by the Holy Spirit.
Either billions of Christians have put their faith in a lie, or there's someone in this thread who's making up a lie.
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The precise meaning of "written by" needs to be explained very carefully.
 
Nufan said:
From reform Judaism

  1. There is an afterlife: Texts from every era in Jewish life identify a world where people go when they die. In the Bible it’s an underworld called Sheol. In the rabbinic tradition it’s known by a number of names, including the yeshiva shel mallah, the school on high. The Hebrew word for skies, shamayim, also came to refer to heaven.
  2. Heaven has open door policy: Heaven is not a gated community. The righteous of any people and any faith have a place in it. Our actions, not our specific beliefs, determine our fate. No concept of Hell exists in Judaism. The closest we get is the fate of apostate (a person who renounces God, faith and morality in this world), who is said to be “cut off from his kin.”
  3. The afterlife can take many forms: Professor A.J. Levine expresses this truth most eloquently: “Jewish beliefs in the afterlife are as diverse as Judaism itself, from the traditional view expecting the unity of flesh and spirit in a resurrected body, to the idea that we live on in our children and grandchildren, to a sense of heaven (perhaps with lox and bagels rather than harps and haloes).”
  4. The afterlife is here on earth: One strand of Jewish thought sees heaven as a transitory place where souls reside after death. They reside there until they reunite with their physical bodies at the time when the Messiah comes. This approach differs from reincarnation since the return to life happens only in the messianic era, not as a regular occurrence, as in Hinduism.
  5. We live on through others: The Reform Jewish prayerbook expresses this idea through the metaphor of a leaf and a tree. A leaf drops to the ground, but it nourishes the soil so more plants and trees spring up. The same is true in our lives. We nourish the future through the influence we have on those who follow us. It can happen in unimaginable ways.
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Basically. What I'm saying ISIS your believing in something that the Jews had no concept during the time of Jesus and they still do not have a concept.
 
Nufan said:
I love this thank you. So many people against me I just jump the gun somtimes. In case you're interested the Jewish view of the afterlife, when tying it to gahenna has to do with the purification process of repentance, and so they have one year after the time they die to repent of all the wrongs and offenses that they have committed against God. If they do , then they will be restored with a new body and allowed to live in the garden of eden , as it was before the fall. This is where new jerusalem cones in. If they refuse to repent for everything then they're unsure of what happens, they speculated on the transmigration of the soul, which is reincarnation, or that one would die because it doesn't have a body to live in, which they believe a body is necessary for the soul to live. They don't believe in an eternal torment and punishment, and we can get into what the actual word for eternal means in the Bible. The word they use means eternal aeon. So if you break this down properly, then essentially it's eternal unspecified amount of time. And if you look into the Eastern orthodox, which is the tradition that was followed before roman cathalism, they also don't have any understanding of what would happen to the soul if it refuses to repent after death, they believe that wherever God is is paradise. Because that's where eternal life and God's love is, and that even in hell god is there. So, therefore, that means that if they hate God and don't want to accept his love.Then it will be a hell for them no matter where they go, but there is no distinction within their faith that there is an eternal separation from God.Or an eternal torment. Actually if you want to look into when they started believing in this eternal separation and torment you can look into Spinoza.He basically dials in when this belife entered the catholic church and that it's actually a heresy and not based on truth. The Catholic Church essentially was saying that we have the truth. And we are the authentic church and we come from apostolic succession. And it's only through our guidance and our interpretation of the scripture and our sacraments that you can be saved. Therefore, if you refuse, then you will spend eternity and hell. This was a fear tactic to blackmail people into the faith. This is not rooted in love.
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this couldn't be something I could accept.

People need to get right with God before they die.
It may be something that's related to people in Jewish tradition waiting for the Messiah to come and believing in the 1000 year punishment for sins long ago before Jesus Messiah came

I know about that one.

But it's something that could be something that brought them peace whilst certain sects of Jews where waiting for the Messiah to return long before he did.

But i don't see the peace there to be honest I feel better having peace in my heart now than waiting to find out if I'll have separation after I pass away.

This brings me more peace.

I don't care about how the catholics where enforcing there word.

Every Christian knows Gods grace is a personal relationship not forced but enabled with Godly compassion in the heart
 
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