The Way of Salvation and Eternal Life

[vassal]

I follow the words of Christ. Isn't that what you say to do?

As for scripture, well, if you consider twisting scripture and taking it out of context and doing mashups of unrealted scripture as proof of your being correct, then be aware most people here do not think you are correct when it comes to the commandments or how they play a part in salvation, according to you.

Once again, Jesus is the creator of the New Covenant according to the will of God whose is just and merciful. The commandments, while valid, are not the structure whereby a person becomes a Christian or believer in God's plan of salvation.

Are you a Christian?

So you do follow the Ten Commandments , this is What Jesus asked us to do. You do well to do as he Jesus, the Messiah, one with God who was given ALL authority in Heaven and on Earth asked. then why do we agree, we believe the same things.

God did say the ten Commandments are the Covenant, I know it ""shocked " a few and I myself was surprised I had overlooked this fact but it is very Important to know this. FIve times in the O,T, God words called the Ten commandments the Covenant. Do not close your heart to scripture please. and Yes the ten commandments are essential to salvation. they keep us from SIN and help us to REMEMBER and Love God above all else, also that GOD provides for His people ( Jews and Geniles) who do His Will.

..“Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”
(Matthew 19:17)

​

Blessings

 

[Nedsk]

Unfortunately, SDAs are not the only ones doing it. It seems to be a very popular approach in these last days. Is Vassal SDA? I looked up his icon and it is an artist's rendering of what the new Jerusalem will look like. AI said it could be associated with LDS churches. My personal interractions with higher-up members of that group indicates faith + works is one of their core beliefs.

Regardless of lds or sda, Scripture is clear faith without works is dead.

 

[vassal]

But the obedience is a free choice of the will otherwise it's not done out of love. AGAIN James says works complete faith which by definition means solar fida is an error

Remember what God said to us in scrioture;

Note: the following verse is not to accuse anyone just to quote the verse about choice God places before us;

Deuteronomy 30:15–21. In the Old Testament, God gives the people a choice between life and death, blessing and curse, and urges them to choose life. Here it is in the New King James Version (NKJV):

*“15 See, I have set before you today life and good, death and evil, 16 in that I command you today to love the Lord your God, to walk in His ways, and to keep His commandments, His statutes, and His judgments, that you may live and multiply; and the Lord your God will bless you in the land which you go to possess.

17 But if your heart turns away so that you do not hear, and are drawn away, and worship other gods and serve them, 18 I announce to you today that you shall surely perish; you shall not prolong your days in the land which you cross over the Jordan to go in and possess.

19 I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life, that both you and your descendants may live; 20 that you may love the Lord your God, that you may obey His voice, and that you may cling to Him, for He is your life and the length of your days; and that you may dwell in the land which the Lord swore to your fathers, to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, to give them.

21 For the Lord will again rejoice over you for good as He rejoiced over your fathers, 22 if you obey the voice of the Lord your God, to keep His commandments and His statutes which are written in this Book of the Law, and if you turn to the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul.”*


Yes we do have free will it is certain.

Blessings,

 

[NewLifeInChrist]

James simply says that people should be doers of the words of Christ, and.by good deeds prove your faith, it does not say works or deeds will save you. first you have to believe then obey Christ commands.

Do you follow the TEN commandments?

stop lying here about everything I say this is not appropriate. All I say in my posts is accompanied by scripture in the proper context. and anyone can easily prove that what I write is correct.

3 For we ourselves were also once foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving various lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful and hating one another. 4 But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, 5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.​

8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I want you to affirm constantly, that those who have believed in God should be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable to men.​

[The New King James Version (Tt 3:3–8). (1982). Thomas Nelson.]​

It is clear that our works do not contribute to our salvation. It was by His kindness, love, mercy, and grace that He saved us, washed us, regenerated us, poured out His spirit on us, and made us heirs. Saying that keeping it is dependent on our works of righteousness certainly undoes everything for everyone and makes it null and void. That is why it is said that we do not have righteousness because of our obedience to the law, but by faith in Christ Jesus...

8 Yet indeed I also count all things loss for the excellence of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them as rubbish, that I may gain Christ 9 and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith (Php 3:8–9).​

It is clear in this passage that Paul's sure hope is that after having lived a full life as a servant of God that he has been found righteous, not because of his obedience to the law, but because of His reliance on Christ. So, the concept that salvation starts with faith and is maintained by obedience is false doctrine.

 

[mailmandan]

LMBO did some "pastor" give you that one?! for the one millionth time no one says works save but faith without works is dead. Explain how a dead faith is salvific

Although I have learned form pastors over the years (iron sharpens iron) my beliefs mainly come from reading scripture in context then properly harmonizing scripture with scripture before reaching my conclusion on doctrine (and not simply from some pastor).

Now there are plenty of people who teach salvation by faith and works and use James 2:14-26 to support their argument. We are saved by faith that trusts in Jesus Christ "alone" for salvation. (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9) This faith goes on to produce good works because it's alive in Christ. (Ephesians 2:5-10)

*Not to be confused with an empty profession of faith/dead faith that remains "alone" barren of works. (James 2:14)

 

[NewLifeInChrist]

Regardless of lds or sda, Scripture is clear faith without works is dead.

Yes, James makes it clear that in order to be saved you must offer up your firstborn son as a burnt offering to God (Ja 2:21) or you must lie to the authorities concerning the whereabouts of people they are looking for (Ja 2:25) or you must meet the needs of the hungry (Ja 2:15-16). Or have you not noticed that none of those examples are about salvation?

What are they about? They demonstrate that your actions speak louder than your words. If you say you believe in Jesus for the salvation of your soul, but you are working hard to secure your salvation through obedience to the law, then you have not rested from your works (Heb 4:10) and your faith looks like it's dead.

 

[Nedsk]

Yes, James makes it clear that in order to be saved you must offer up your firstborn son as a burnt offering to God (Ja 2:21) or you must lie to the authorities concerning the whereabouts of people they are looking for (Ja 2:25) or you must meet the needs of the hungry (Ja 2:15-16). Or have you not noticed that none of those examples are about salvation?

What are they about? They demonstrate that your actions speak louder than your words. If you say you believe in Jesus for the salvation of your soul, but you are working hard to secure your salvation through obedience to the law, then you have not rested from your works (Heb 4:10) and your faith looks like it's dead.

So as I have said, faith alone in not sufficient for salvation.

 

[pinebeach]

So you do follow the Ten Commandments , this is What Jesus asked us to do. You do well to do as he Jesus, the Messiah, one with God who was given ALL authority in Heaven and on Earth asked. then why do we agree, we believe the same things.

God did say the ten Commandments are the Covenant, I know it ""shocked " a few and I myself was surprised I had overlooked this fact but it is very Important to know this. FIve times in the O,T, God words called the Ten commandments the Covenant. Do not close your heart to scripture please. and Yes the ten commandments are essential to salvation. they keep us from SIN and help us to REMEMBER and Love God above all else, also that GOD provides for His people ( Jews and Geniles) who do His Will.

..“Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”
(Matthew 19:17)

​

I know you are trying very hard, but you just keep altering what scripture states and as ridiculous as it seems to me, you are now trying to create the impression I agree with you. That is false.

20 And likewise the cup after they had eaten, saying, "This cup that is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood. Luke 22:20

 

[pinebeach]

Unfortunately, SDAs are not the only ones doing it. It seems to be a very popular approach in these last days. Is Vassal SDA? I looked up his icon and it is an artist's rendering of what the new Jerusalem will look like. AI said it could be associated with LDS churches. My personal interractions with higher-up members of that group indicates faith + works is one of their core beliefs.

Vassal says he is not SDA BUT he also says he is not a Christian. Don't be fooled by him. He clearly states the commandments are the CURRENT covenant we have with God. He has a whole thread about that and his beliefs are not about the sacrifice of Jesus. He will say he believes in Jesus but always refers to the 10 commandments as THE covenant and will not address any scripture that states otherwise.

It's concerning that he continuing with this duplicity.

 

[NewLifeInChrist]

So as I have said, faith alone in not sufficient for salvation.

You are right. That's what I said too. But we apply the Scripture differently. How does a person who trusts that he is right with God on the basis of Christ's sacrifice for his sins change the object of his faith to something else? It happens (see Galatians 1:6-7). But like Paul, I am puzzeled when I see it occur. The only logincal answer is that bad doctrine spreads like yeast in a lump of dough (Ga 5:9).

 

[Gideon300]

Regardless of lds or sda, Scripture is clear faith without works is dead.

The problem is when believers or pseudo believers convince themselves that it is faith plus works. Of course, they do not know what "works" means. I advise all such to go back to the source. His name is Jesus.

'Then they inquired, “What must we do to perform the works of God?” Jesus replied, “The work of God is this: to believe in the One He has sent."' (John 6:28 & 29)

The problem with works focus is that it gets the order wrong. If you have faith, then works will result. You won't need to try to do good works to validate faith. It will be the result of faith. This also means that good works are not necessarily a sign of faith. Many people try to work their way into heaven. Jesus will tell them, "I never knew you." (Matthew 7: 21 & 22)

 

[pinebeach]

So as I have said, faith alone in not sufficient for salvation.

Faith plus works is not salvation.

Now, the Holy Spirit within a saved person, will begin the work of sanctification within that person. Of course those who are following Christ will want to play a part in the lives of others.

There are many works done in the flesh; you do not have to be a beliver in Jesus to try to do good works or be a good person, but these are not in any way a part of salvation and frankly, even a believer can do works that are not approved by God which is why we should be led by the Holy Spirit and not those who try to add works to salvation.

 

[NewLifeInChrist]

Vassal says he is not SDA BUT he also says he is not a Christian. Don't be fooled by him. He clearly states the commandments are the CURRENT covenant we have with God. He has a whole thread about that and his beliefs are not about the sacrifice of Jesus. He will say he believes in Jesus but always refers to the 10 commandments as THE covenant and will not address any scripture that states otherwise.

It's concerning that he continuing with this duplicity.

Thanks for the head's up. Can you link a post where he says he's not a Christian?

 

[pinebeach]

The problem is when believers or pseudo believers convince themselves that it is faith plus works. Of course, they do not know what "works" means. I advise all such to go back to the source. His name is Jesus.

'Then they inquired, “What must we do to perform the works of God?” Jesus replied, “The work of God is this: to believe in the One He has sent."' (John 6:28 & 29)

The problem with works focus is that it gets the order wrong. If you have faith, then works will result. You won't need to try to do good works to validate faith. It will be the result of faith. This also means that good works are not necessarily a sign of faith. Many people try to work their way into heaven. Jesus will tell them, "I never knew you." (Matthew 7: 21 & 22)

When you get to know what these people really believe, it turns out it's all about the 'works'.

If you have faith, then works will result.

That is the exact thing they consistently get wrong and no matter how many times or how much they are shown this in scriture, they just go right back to works plus Jesus which is not salvation.

 

[pinebeach]

Thanks for the head's up. Can you link a post where he says he's not a Christian?

I know it's 'out there' somewhere, but it would take alot of looking to find it. However, just ask him if he is a Christian. He will never answer that question because in order to do so, he will have to say 'no' which means he is posting a false gospel...which he is anyway.

Here's a line to his thread The Ten Commandments are the Covenant, did you know?

You can learn what he really thinks in that thread and yes, he believes the commandments are the current covenant with believers.

He has told people, including myself, that we are not saved, we are going to hell, we do not belong to God and of course there is also the standard 'if you do not observe the Sabbath' you are going to the lake of fire.

 

[Gideon300]

When you get to know what these people really believe, it turns out it's all about the 'works'.




That is the exact thing they consistently get wrong and no matter how many times or how much they are shown this in scriture, they just go right back to works plus Jesus which is not salvation.

They will get a rude shock when they find themselves shut out of God's Kingdom.

 

[pinebeach]

They will get a rude shock when they find themselves shut out of God's Kingdom.

We really live in an age of deception. I mean it was always around, but as we continue, it has gotten worse and will get worse. The internet has been a great tool for false prophets, teachers etc to spread their evil around.

 

[Nedsk]

You are right. That's what I said too. But we apply the Scripture differently. How does a person who trusts that he is right with God on the basis of Christ's sacrifice for his sins change the object of his faith to something else? It happens (see Galatians 1:6-7). But like Paul, I am puzzeled when I see it occur. The only logincal answer is that bad doctrine spreads like yeast in a lump of dough (Ga 5:9).

You are right. That's what I said too. But we apply the Scripture differently. How does a person who trusts that he is right with God on the basis of Christ's sacrifice for his sins change the object of his faith to something else? It happens (see Galatians 1:6-7). But like Paul, I am puzzeled when I see it occur. The only logincal answer is that bad doctrine spreads like yeast in a lump of dough (Ga 5:9).

We apply it differently? How so?

 

[vassal]

3 For we ourselves were also once foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving various lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful and hating one another. 4 But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, 5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.​

8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I want you to affirm constantly, that those who have believed in God should be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable to men.​

[The New King James Version (Tt 3:3–8). (1982). Thomas Nelson.]​

It is clear that our works do not contribute to our salvation. It was by His kindness, love, mercy, and grace that He saved us, washed us, regenerated us, poured out His spirit on us, and made us heirs. Saying that keeping it is dependent on our works of righteousness certainly undoes everything for everyone and makes it null and void. That is why it is said that we do not have righteousness because of our obedience to the law, but by faith in Christ Jesus...

8 Yet indeed I also count all things loss for the excellence of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them as rubbish, that I may gain Christ 9 and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith (Php 3:8–9).​

It is clear in this passage that Paul's sure hope is that after having lived a full life as a servant of God that he has been found righteous, not because of his obedience to the law, but because of His reliance on Christ. So, the concept that salvation starts with faith and is maintained by obedience is false doctrine.

I understand your point that salvation is a gift from God, given through His mercy and the work of Jesus. That is indeed beautiful and true—no one can earn salvation by their own effort. But Jesus Himself taught that following Him involves more than just faith in words; it also includes living in a way that reflects His love and obedience to God’s commands.
In the Gospels, Jesus says, “If you love Me, keep My commandments” (John 14:15). He never separated faith in Him from obedience—He invited people to trust Him and follow Him, not as a way to earn salvation, but as the natural fruit of being His disciple. The disciples also encouraged believers to live in a way that is pleasing to God, showing love, kindness, and purity of heart.
Faith is the starting point, and grace brings us into God’s family, but our actions—our obedience—are the visible proof that our hearts have been changed. Titus 3:8 supports this, reminding us to “be careful to maintain good works” because they are beneficial. It doesn’t contradict salvation by grace; it flows naturally from it. Obedience is not about earning salvation, but about living as God’s children under the guidance of the Spirit.
Following Jesus is a journey of both trusting Him fully and letting His Spirit shape our hearts so that love and obedience naturally follow. It’s a path of joy, not burden, because it shows that His work in us is real.

 

[vassal]

I know you are trying very hard, but you just keep altering what scripture states and as ridiculous as it seems to me, you are now trying to create the impression I agree with you. That is false.

20 And likewise the cup after they had eaten, saying, "This cup that is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood. Luke 22:20

Why blood? Do you know that this has a deep meaning? Jesus Himself said, “This is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins” (Matthew 26:28). The blood of Jesus—the Lamb of God—started the New Covenant. When He died on the cross, His blood, which is life, paid the full price for our sins.

It’s important to understand that the blood itself is not the covenant. The New Covenant is God putting His commandments into our hearts, writing them on our minds, so that we naturally follow Him (Jeremiah 31:33, Hebrews 8:10). When Jesus died, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom (Matthew 27:51). Do you understand what this means? It shows that Jesus Himself became our intercessor before God. We no longer need the sacrifices of the Levitical law for sin atonement.

Now, because of Jesus, we have full access to God. Anyone can come to Him and pray directly, and Jesus promised, “If you ask anything in My name, I will do it” (John 14:14). The New Covenant is about a transformed heart, access to God, and living according to His will, all made possible through Jesus’ sacrifice.



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