Jesus told the 40,000 kinds of “Christian” churches, doing all those wonderful works, “I never knew you”. which of the 40,000?

[memberofthebride]

I believe that the "Lord Lord" people whom Jesus was addressing were false prophets because He had just finished talking about them; namely that they are ravenous wolves in sheep's clothing (and that they can be known by their fruits).

Also, when Jesus spoke about how only those who do His Father's will shall enter heaven, it's important to keep in mind what John wrote in his Gospel. The will of the Father is to believe on the One whom He has sent (John 6:29).

In short, we can't enter heaven by our works; we enter by Christ's work (cf. Romans 4).

comment;

where does it say "shall enter heaven" I have search for that scripture for 60 years and have not yet found it,
many scriptures say --Doing God's will gets you the "gift" of eternal life.

keep in mind -- Christ uses the word ---"Many", that can mean the majority, no, Christ is point to those claiming to be Christians.

 

[Soyeong]

comment:

Paul is difficult to understand, which I believe Peter attested to. Paul was highly educated in the Torah. and many think he teaches the Torah is not to be obeyed when he is actually saying yes it must be obeyed.

In 2 Peter 3:15-18, it says that Paul is difficult to understand, that those who are ignorant and unstable twist his words to their own destruction, and to be careful not to be carried off by the error of lawless men, but to grow in grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. So we can be confident that when Paul is correctly understood that he did not teach against obeying the Torah. In Psalm 119:29-30, he wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey the Torah, and he chose the way of faith by setting it before him, so this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith, and I made the case in post #8 that the way to know Jesus is by walking in God's way in obedience to the Torah, so that is the way to grow in grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

not sure I understand your question as written, If you are asking if Paul was teaching against obedience to the Torah , no

I was asking that question to the other poster who was saying that Paul was opposing false teachings in Colossians while also interpreting Colossians as speaking against following Christ's example of obedience to what God has commanded.

 

[tourist]

Define, lawless?

Breaking the law. The question that I have is what exactly is the law that is being broken. I believe that I read somewhere in the bible that states that the law kills because everyone has broken it.

 

[Gideon300]

What say you -------[/QUOTE]
You make a false assumption that a person's identity before God depends on their denomination. God makes no such distinction. The prerequisite for salvation is to be born again. That's it. If you are a born again Roman Catholic, you are acceptable in the Beloved. I detest Catholicism. But I've met Roman Catholics who put tongues talking, hand raising, Hallelujah shouting Pentecostals to shame.

The church consists of all who are born again. Your premise is therefore baseless. If Jesus rejects people, it shows that they were never the church in the first place. What particular denomination they attend is irrelevant.

When I was first saved, I was in the navy. I traveled to many different countries and I met Christians from different cultures and denominations. I noted two things. One, there was very little difference in their beliefs. I also discovered that people were quite happy to switch denominations if they became dissatisfied. I'm not saying that this is necessarily a good thing. I am saying that denominations are not all that important to believers.

 

[Gideon300]

Comment

I disagree.

Many, if not most of the 40,000 Churches do not keep the 7th day Sabbath, God put a man to death for working on the Sabbath, If this is in the category of "Lawlessness" today, which I believe it is, then every single one in the non-Sabbath keeping churches, Christ has never known. They, as a body or as individuals will not be in the Kingdom unless they repent.

So it matters to each individual which of the 40,000 kinds they belong to.

IF keeping sunday is Lawlessness, and 39,500 of the 40,000 keep sunday, then 39,500 are out.

Humans all want to be part of a group, a group of their kind.

I do not see it's possible for an individual to be known by Christ all the while attending with a church that is teaching lawlessness.

You have no idea what the gospel is, you do not know the purpose of the law and you do not know what grace is. If I would you, I would be worried that the basis of my faith is false and I will be one of those you so readily condemn.

 

[memberofthebride]

What say you -------

You make a false assumption that a person's identity before God depends on their denomination. God makes no such distinction. The prerequisite for salvation is to be born again. That's it. If you are a born again Roman Catholic, you are acceptable in the Beloved. I detest Catholicism. But I've met Roman Catholics who put tongues talking, hand raising, Hallelujah shouting Pentecostals to shame.

The church consists of all who are born again. Your premise is therefore baseless. If Jesus rejects people, it shows that they were never the church in the first place. What particular denomination they attend is irrelevant.

When I was first saved, I was in the navy. I traveled to many different countries and I met Christians from different cultures and denominations. I noted two things. One, there was very little difference in their beliefs. I also discovered that people were quite happy to switch denominations if they became dissatisfied. I'm not saying that this is necessarily a good thing. I am saying that denominations are not all that important to believers.[/QUOTE]


comment;

"You make a false assumption that a person's identity before God depends on their denomination."

God's Church is God's Church, it is ONE, not 40,000. God is not divided into one believing this and another believing that.
Yes there was God's Church at this or that city but it was God's church, and The Church of God has never been divided into denominations and never will.

Do you not understand there if ONE faith. ONE spirit, ONE body -15 And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful.

One Way, one hope, One LORD, one Father.

God is not the author of confusion and denominations are just that -- confusion.

We are told we must be of ONE mind, of ONE accord ----- not 40,000 separate bodies opposing each other.

Remember when Paul corrected those saying; I am of Peter or I am of Paul -- Christ is not divided.

understand the Church of God is to marry Christ at His return, one bride, not 40,000

No sir,, The term is; The 40,000 flavors of confusion. If they all believed the same they would not be separated

5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

many denominations using MY Name shall deceive many.

 

[memberofthebride]

You have no idea what the gospel is, you do not know the purpose of the law and you do not know what grace is. If I would you, I would be worried that the basis of my faith is false and I will be one of those you so readily condemn.

Comment:

Ah yes, "Grace".

While I was a full on sinner, God the Father sent HIS only Son to die for me, for me a sinner

ME, a man that loved sin, The Father had HIS Son half beaten to death and then hung on a stake and bleed out all His Blood on to the ground -- Why? so my sins could be paid for by His SON's Death -- while I had not repented, while I was loving sin! He died for me.

that is God's Kindness, THAT is the Grace of God!

 

[memberofthebride]

Breaking the law. The question that I have is what exactly is the law that is being broken. I believe that I read somewhere in the bible that states that the law kills because everyone has broken it.

the Torah, which is the first Five Books of the Old Testament. Not all every law carries the penalty of death, some are punished physically.

Do you remember the statement. "we are healed by HIS stripes"? that means our physical illnesses are paid for by the beating Christ took on His body. thus we can be healed of our physical illnesses. Christ paid our physical penalty for our physical sins.

Our spiritual sins require our death, Christ pay that penalty by His death

 

[Gideon300]

You make a false assumption that a person's identity before God depends on their denomination. God makes no such distinction. The prerequisite for salvation is to be born again. That's it. If you are a born again Roman Catholic, you are acceptable in the Beloved. I detest Catholicism. But I've met Roman Catholics who put tongues talking, hand raising, Hallelujah shouting Pentecostals to shame.

The church consists of all who are born again. Your premise is therefore baseless. If Jesus rejects people, it shows that they were never the church in the first place. What particular denomination they attend is irrelevant.

When I was first saved, I was in the navy. I traveled to many different countries and I met Christians from different cultures and denominations. I noted two things. One, there was very little difference in their beliefs. I also discovered that people were quite happy to switch denominations if they became dissatisfied. I'm not saying that this is necessarily a good thing. I am saying that denominations are not all that important to believers.

comment;

"You make a false assumption that a person's identity before God depends on their denomination."

God's Church is God's Church, it is ONE, not 40,000. God is not divided into one believing this and another believing that.
Yes there was God's Church at this or that city but it was God's church, and The Church of God has never been divided into denominations and never will.

Do you not understand there if ONE faith. ONE spirit, ONE body -15 And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful.

One Way, one hope, One LORD, one Father.

God is not the author of confusion and denominations are just that -- confusion.

We are told we must be of ONE mind, of ONE accord ----- not 40,000 separate bodies opposing each other.

Remember when Paul corrected those saying; I am of Peter or I am of Paul -- Christ is not divided.

understand the Church of God is to marry Christ at His return, one bride, not 40,000

No sir,, The term is; The 40,000 flavors of confusion. If they all believed the same they would not be separated

5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

many denominations using MY Name shall deceive many. [/QUOTE]
Denominations are not of God. Adventists are as much a denomination as Catholicism or any of the 40,000 denominations. Denominations are dross that God will cleanse in due time. There is not one denomination that is perfect. There is one church and one expression of that church in each locality. You still do not see that there are believers in each denomination (OK, some may be totally devoid of real believers). If there are no believers, it's not a church.

 

[memberofthebride]

comment;

"You make a false assumption that a person's identity before God depends on their denomination."

God's Church is God's Church, it is ONE, not 40,000. God is not divided into one believing this and another believing that.
Yes there was God's Church at this or that city but it was God's church, and The Church of God has never been divided into denominations and never will.

Do you not understand there if ONE faith. ONE spirit, ONE body -15 And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful.

One Way, one hope, One LORD, one Father.

God is not the author of confusion and denominations are just that -- confusion.

We are told we must be of ONE mind, of ONE accord ----- not 40,000 separate bodies opposing each other.

Remember when Paul corrected those saying; I am of Peter or I am of Paul -- Christ is not divided.

understand the Church of God is to marry Christ at His return, one bride, not 40,000

No sir,, The term is; The 40,000 flavors of confusion. If they all believed the same they would not be separated

5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

many denominations using MY Name shall deceive many.

Denominations are not of God. Adventists are as much a denomination as Catholicism or any of the 40,000 denominations. Denominations are dross that God will cleanse in due time. There is not one denomination that is perfect. There is one church and one expression of that church in each locality. You still do not see that there are believers in each denomination (OK, some may be totally devoid of real believers). If there are no believers, it's not a church.[/QUOTE]


I trust the words of Jesus Christ,, He says His are the FEW, there are around 2 billion calling themselves Christians today.

that 25% of the earth's population -- I would say that is a little bit too many.

 

[Gideon300]

Denominations are not of God. Adventists are as much a denomination as Catholicism or any of the 40,000 denominations. Denominations are dross that God will cleanse in due time. There is not one denomination that is perfect. There is one church and one expression of that church in each locality. You still do not see that there are believers in each denomination (OK, some may be totally devoid of real believers). If there are no believers, it's not a church.

I trust the words of Jesus Christ,, He says His are the FEW, there are around 2 billion calling themselves Christians today.

that 25% of the earth's population -- I would say that is a little bit too many.[/QUOTE]
Sure, but it is NOT your place to judge. How many of those 2 billion do you know personally? How do you know if they are saved or not? You do not know. Don't pretend that you do.

 

[soulprobe]

If it is not important then why was the man put to death by Moses?

All 10 of the 10 Commandments carry the penalty of death.

Sorry you have no excuse.

Finally... an honest Sabbath observer who comes out and says that the billions of people who ever lived since Adam, Christian or otherwise, are going to be thrown into the lake of fire ("put to death") for not resting from Friday sunset to Saturday sunset. I asked this question before and got no straight answer. You, on the other hand, have had the courage to proclaim these diabolical beliefs of the SDA by dedicating a whole thread to the burning of billions of non-Sabbath keepers.

 

[Soyeong]

Finally... an honest Sabbath observer who comes out and says that the billions of people who ever lived since Adam, Christian or otherwise, are going to be thrown into the lake of fire ("put to death") for not resting from Friday sunset to Saturday sunset. I asked this question before and got no straight answer. You, on the other hand, have had the courage to proclaim these diabolical beliefs of the SDA by dedicating a whole thread to the burning of billions of non-Sabbath keepers.

Saying that a command carries the death penalty is not the same as saying that everyone who breaks that command will be thown into the lake of fire. Moreover, regardless of what penalty for break the Sabbath is, it is God who decreed it, not the SDA.

 

[Wansvic]

I believe that the "Lord Lord" people whom Jesus was addressing were false prophets because He had just finished talking about them; namely that they are ravenous wolves in sheep's clothing (and that they can be known by their fruits).

Also, when Jesus spoke about how only those who do His Father's will shall enter heaven, it's important to keep in mind what John wrote in his Gospel. The will of the Father is to believe on the One whom He has sent (John 6:29).

In short, we can't enter heaven by our works; we enter by Christ's work (cf. Romans 4).

After telling individuals He never knew them Jesus went on to explain why. And what He revealed involved the need to do what He says:

"Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it." Matt. 7:24-27


Also, as recorded in Hebrews 5:9, Jesus is the author of eternal salvation unto all them who OBEY Him.

 

[memberofthebride]

I trust the words of Jesus Christ,, He says His are the FEW, there are around 2 billion calling themselves Christians today.

that 25% of the earth's population -- I would say that is a little bit too many.

Sure, but it is NOT your place to judge. How many of those 2 billion do you know personally? How do you know if they are saved or not? You do not know. Don't pretend that you do.[/QUOTE]


Comment:

I am not condemning Sabbath keepers or the 40,000 that number in the billions; I am simply pointing out Christ has stated HIS flock, His Called out ones --- are the FEW, not the many.

Which would or could lead one to believe few of the billions are followers of Jesus Christ.

God will condemn, Christ is the perfect Judge

And remember Christ put a man to death while Israel was in the wilderness, for working on the Sabbath.
If Christ changes His mind, that would mean He is not the same day or tomorrow, that He changes, which He stated He does not.

therefore; all churches keeping sunday -- have a big problem, which most do

 

[soulprobe]

Saying that a command carries the death penalty is not the same as saying that everyone who breaks that command will be thown into the lake of fire. Moreover, regardless of what penalty for break the Sabbath is, it is God who decreed it, not the SDA.

It seems to be what he's implying... death penalty here means death penalty there... you seem to be in disagreement with that.... you may want to take that up with the OP.
And God decreed out of Jerusalem that Gentiles were not required to keep the law of Moses, which includes the Sabbath.... I already discussed this in detail and no one could effectively refute it. But I understand that the SDA ad campaign needs to be continue regardless.

 

[tourist]

the Torah, which is the first Five Books of the Old Testament. Not all every law carries the penalty of death, some are punished physically.

Do you remember the statement. "we are healed by HIS stripes"? that means our physical illnesses are paid for by the beating Christ took on His body. thus we can be healed of our physical illnesses. Christ paid our physical penalty for our physical sins.

Our spiritual sins require our death, Christ pay that penalty by His death

I agree with your estimation.

 

[Gideon300]

Sure, but it is NOT your place to judge. How many of those 2 billion do you know personally? How do you know if they are saved or not? You do not know. Don't pretend that you do.

Comment:

I am not condemning Sabbath keepers or the 40,000 that number in the billions; I am simply pointing out Christ has stated HIS flock, His Called out ones --- are the FEW, not the many.

Which would or could lead one to believe few of the billions are followers of Jesus Christ.

God will condemn, Christ is the perfect Judge

And remember Christ put a man to death while Israel was in the wilderness, for working on the Sabbath.
If Christ changes His mind, that would mean He is not the same day or tomorrow, that He changes, which He stated He does not.

therefore; all churches keeping sunday -- have a big problem, which most do[/QUOTE]
Rubbish. The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. You ignore the many scriptures that contradict your false doctrine. Jesus is the way to eternal life, not sabbath keeping. Jesus is the Door, not a set of rules that no one can keep.

There is nothing "simple" about your "pointing out." You are promoting a patently false teaching. Sabbath keeping saves no one. God also commanded adulterers to be stoned to death. Yet He spared King David. God requires mercy, not sacrifice. Grace and truth came through Christ. You are deceived and you are intent on deceiving others. No doubt you mean well, but the end result is the same.

 

[memberofthebride]

Comment:

I am not condemning Sabbath keepers or the 40,000 that number in the billions; I am simply pointing out Christ has stated HIS flock, His Called out ones --- are the FEW, not the many.

Which would or could lead one to believe few of the billions are followers of Jesus Christ.

God will condemn, Christ is the perfect Judge

And remember Christ put a man to death while Israel was in the wilderness, for working on the Sabbath.
If Christ changes His mind, that would mean He is not the same day or tomorrow, that He changes, which He stated He does not.

therefore; all churches keeping sunday -- have a big problem, which most do

Rubbish. The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. You ignore the many scriptures that contradict your false doctrine. Jesus is the way to eternal life, not sabbath keeping. Jesus is the Door, not a set of rules that no one can keep.

There is nothing "simple" about your "pointing out." You are promoting a patently false teaching. Sabbath keeping saves no one. God also commanded adulterers to be stoned to death. Yet He spared King David. God requires mercy, not sacrifice. Grace and truth came through Christ. You are deceived and you are intent on deceiving others. No doubt you mean well, but the end result is the same.[/QUOTE]


Fact:

obeying the Torah or the Commandments never offered eternal life, NEVER.

the Old Covenant NEVER offered eternal life, the Old Covenant was obey or die. and they could never obey

Please explain why the 7th Day Sabbath was made by Jesus Christ at the very beginning? Day 7

The Sabbath did not come from the Covenant or the 10 Commandments, it existed from the very beginning -- thus is a very special day the the maker, Jesus Christ is LORD of.

Will keeping the Sabbath save you == NO!

If you like there are scriptures showing when Christ is on earth ruling, the Sabbath will be worldwide and the 7 Feasts of God as well, and the Torah will be the Law for the world.

Show me one scripture changing the 7th day to the 1st day. there is none.

Christ said 'follow ME" Christ never taught or kept sunday, easter, or xmas. so why do the 40,000 keep these 3?

Christ and His 13 Apostles all kept the Feasts of God and the 7th Day Sabbath, I will follow them.

If it is blasphemy to follow the exact example of Jesus Christ, then so be it.

 

[Gideon300]

Rubbish. The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. You ignore the many scriptures that contradict your false doctrine. Jesus is the way to eternal life, not sabbath keeping. Jesus is the Door, not a set of rules that no one can keep.

There is nothing "simple" about your "pointing out." You are promoting a patently false teaching. Sabbath keeping saves no one. God also commanded adulterers to be stoned to death. Yet He spared King David. God requires mercy, not sacrifice. Grace and truth came through Christ. You are deceived and you are intent on deceiving others. No doubt you mean well, but the end result is the same.

Fact:

obeying the Torah or the Commandments never offered eternal life, NEVER.

the Old Covenant NEVER offered eternal life, the Old Covenant was obey or die. and they could never obey

Please explain why the 7th Day Sabbath was made by Jesus Christ at the very beginning? Day 7

The Sabbath did not come from the Covenant or the 10 Commandments, it existed from the very beginning -- thus is a very special day the the maker, Jesus Christ is LORD of.

Will keeping the Sabbath save you == NO!

If you like there are scriptures showing when Christ is on earth ruling, the Sabbath will be worldwide and the 7 Feasts of God as well, and the Torah will be the Law for the world.

Show me one scripture changing the 7th day to the 1st day. there is none.

Christ said 'follow ME" Christ never taught or kept sunday, easter, or xmas. so why do the 40,000 keep these 3?

Christ and His 13 Apostles all kept the Feasts of God and the 7th Day Sabbath, I will follow them.

If it is blasphemy to follow the exact example of Jesus Christ, then so be it.[/QUOTE]
Show me one verse that says gentile believers are required to keep the law of Moses. I'll show you plenty that say that you are wrong. I'm not a Jew. If you are a Jew, by all means observe the 7th sabbath. My Bible says that God said, "Hear O Israel" then gave the law. I'm not an Israelite.

The drum you keep banging is out of tune with NT scripture. Have you not read that the old covenant is a shadow and is becoming obsolete? You can live in the shadows if you wish. Lord Jesus took me out of darkness and into His glorious light.

If you want to live by the law, there are 613 commandments. Not all apply to men and some are reserved for levites and priests. Good luck following all those commandments.

I'm no fan of Christmas or Easter. Jesus was almost certainly born in September and before what we now call 0 AD and much tradition is wrong. However, it is also a time when at least some songs thanking God and praising Jesus are played in public. If nothing else, it is a reminder that God put on human form and came to live with us.