2 Timothy 3:16-17 "All scripture is given by inspiration from God..."

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Aaron56

Aaron56

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Jul 12, 2021
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Here is the scripture in total:

2 Timothy 3:16-17 "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works."

Some quote this verse without understanding; making the scriptures the actor for doctrine, reproof, correction, and instruction in righteousness. To do so ignores the pattern seen in the scriptures: the spiritually mature guide the immature. Even the passage above is from the mature, Paul, to the immature, Timothy. Timothy is Paul's "son in the Lord". That obligates Paul to raise Timothy up in the Lord: showing him the father as he instructs.

Christ Jesus said to His disciples: "As the Father has sent Me, so I am sending you..."

The way in which Christ Jesus was sent by the Father is the manner in which He sent the disciples out from Himself. And what do we see by His actions?: careful, intentional, intimate, close, and personal instruction. He related to them as an elder brother would relate brothers, as a father would relate with sons. So when Christ Jesus said:

"Make disciples..." The disciples knew how to make disciples... with careful, intentional, intimate, close, and personal instruction.

It was a one to one understanding: the disciples are to lead the people as Christ led the people. The flow of grace was from those who had been given a greater measure to those who had less. The intent was that the immature may grow in grace by the doctrine, reproof, correction, and instruction from the mature.

For example, Paul would say to the believers in Rome; "For I long to see you, that I may impart to you some spiritual gift, so that you may be established— that is, that I may be encouraged together with you by the mutual faith both of you and me."

Paul would often refer to "my gospel" and encourage believers to "imitate me". This confuses some because it is known that there is God's gospel and no others. Paul was establishing the authority in which he was sent NOT saying his gospel was something other than the Lord's. Indeed, he notes that he "imitates Christ" so Paul's example to others had a foundation in the life and mysteries of Christ.

If we remove the interconnection of the members of Christ's Body to each other we are left with something other than what God intended. Fractures, divisions, orphan-mindsets come out of such errors. Without a place for the mature to lead the immature the immature will determine the direction of the church. The immature extol the character; the celebrity. He wishes always to be entertained or distracted. Nothing much is asked of the immature because he cannot handle responsibility.

Sickness and weakness come out of a church organized on broad strokes that appeal to many vs the depth of relationship modeled by the Lord and His disciples.

Grace and Peace.
 
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a worthy posting. a detailed explanation. this is 1 of my memorized verses. i use this when teaching people that men did not write the Bible on their own. a lot of catholics & others tell me men wrote the Bible & that's why they don't believe in God. so i say to them: "you're 2/3's right, men wrote the Bible". they say, "what"? & i say, "1/3 is they had the writing utensil, 2/3's, they had the paper & most importantly, God, Jesus & the Holy Spirit AUTHORED the Bible"! just as you mention 2nd Timothy 3:16 & 17, i also tell them 2nd Peter 1:20 & 21 which correlates with Timothy perfectly.
 
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Aaron56 said:
Here is the scripture in total:

2 Timothy 3:16-17 "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works."

Some quote this verse without understanding; making the scriptures the actor for doctrine, reproof, correction, and instruction in righteousness. To do so ignores the pattern seen in the scriptures: the spiritually mature guide the immature. Even the passage above is from the mature, Paul, to the immature, Timothy. Timothy is Paul's "son in the Lord". That obligates Paul to raise Timothy up in the Lord: showing him the father as he instructs.

Christ Jesus said to His disciples: "As the Father has sent Me, so I am sending you..."

The way in which Christ Jesus was sent by the Father is the manner in which He sent the disciples out from Himself. And what do we see by His actions?: careful, intentional, intimate, close, and personal instruction. He related to them as an elder brother would relate brothers, as a father would relate with sons. So when Christ Jesus said:

"Make disciples..." The disciples knew how to make disciples... with careful, intentional, intimate, close, and personal instruction.

It was a one to one understanding: the disciples are to lead the people as Christ led the people. The flow of grace was from those who had been given a greater measure to those who had less. The intent was that the immature may grow in grace by the doctrine, reproof, correction, and instruction from the mature.

For example, Paul would say to the believers in Rome; "For I long to see you, that I may impart to you some spiritual gift, so that you may be established— that is, that I may be encouraged together with you by the mutual faith both of you and me."

Paul would often refer to "my gospel" and encourage believers to "imitate me". This confuses some because it is known that there is God's gospel and no others. Paul was establishing the authority in which he was sent NOT saying his gospel was something other than the Lord's. Indeed, he notes that he "imitates Christ" so Paul's example to others had a foundation in the life and mysteries of Christ.

If we remove the interconnection of the members of Christ's Body to each other we are left with something other than what God intended. Fractures, divisions, orphan-mindsets come out of such errors. Without a place for the mature to lead the immature the immature will determine the direction of the church. The immature extol the character; the celebrity. He wishes always to be entertained or distracted. Nothing much is asked of the immature because he cannot handle responsibility.

Sickness and weakness come out of a church organized on broad strokes that appeal to many vs the depth of relationship modeled by the Lord and His disciples.

Grace and Peace.
Click to expand...

Yes, and the Scripture Paul had in mind must have been the Torah and Prophets.
Not sure whether he was aware that he and the gospel writers were writing NT Scripture.
 
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"Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end..."

This is a prophesy about Christ in Isaiah 9. This passage is usually shared around Christmas time because it begins with "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given..." The language of God's government is familiar: it is His family.

We get the word "economy" from such understanding. In the Greek, οἰκονομία phonetically is 'oikonomia". It's derived of two words: Oikos which is family or household and nomia which is order or structure. In English, we often see it as "dispensation" or "administration" in the New Testament. There is an understanding of someone or a source, giving something out to others... dispensing something for their benefit.

Paul would write it this way "Surely you have heard about the administration of God’s grace that was given to me for you." or if you like in the KJV "If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward". Paul understood that what he had been given was to be dispensed to others. In the case above Paul is dispensing grace. By this, the receivers of the grace are enriched. And thus we have the increase of Christ's government: from one to another.

If you can envision this: see Christ with His disciples and see a flow from Christ to His disciples. When Christ imparts grace to the disciples, the disciples increase in grace. And, since the object of the Lord's love is people, when the people receive grace more of their life is available to Him. If one should "grow in grace" they would necessarily increase their ability to carry grace. And, since the source of grace is the Lord, whenever the grace is dispensed to another, the rulership of the Lord is expanded into that person's life: "Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end..."

This economy is secured by the Lord of the House: Christ Jesus. And the dispensation of this economy was modeled by the Lord to His disciples: and they grew in grace.

Now imagine Him sending out the disciples in the same manner that the Lord's Father, our Father, sent Him. We would see a flow from the disciples to those whom the Lord gave them! Peter would write to his own "children" in the Lord. Paul would tell the Corinthians that, in the economy of Christ, he became their father...

"I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel"

And that THIS was the ultimately gospel: men, called by God, would now be included in the economy, the ruling house, of the Living God. Not just as appreciative servants but as sons, adopted as co-heirs with The Son: Christ Jesus.

Back to the flow examples: one can see how those economy would multiply exponentially: Jesus had 12 disciples, one was lost, so the 11 went out AND THEY TOO dispensed the grace given by the Lord to the next generation and so on and so on. All of them tied back to the One whose NAME IS ON THE HOUSE! This is why His name is above all names: Christ Jesus secured the means by which man would be reconciled (God's original intent) back to God as God's children.

If we do it another way; say we dispense a gospel message, and call for converts to come to an alter, we lose over 90% of those who made a profession of faith (this is well documented) because, most importantly, a profession of faith is not followed by a relationship with an elder in the pattern that Jesus Christ showed us.

Young ones need the care of someone who watches over their souls: the mature watching over the immature.
 
Aaron56 said:
Here is the scripture in total:

2 Timothy 3:16-17 "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works."

Some quote this verse without understanding; making the scriptures the actor for doctrine, reproof, correction, and instruction in righteousness. To do so ignores the pattern seen in the scriptures: the spiritually mature guide the immature. Even the passage above is from the mature, Paul, to the immature, Timothy. Timothy is Paul's "son in the Lord". That obligates Paul to raise Timothy up in the Lord: showing him the father as he instructs.

Christ Jesus said to His disciples: "As the Father has sent Me, so I am sending you..."

The way in which Christ Jesus was sent by the Father is the manner in which He sent the disciples out from Himself. And what do we see by His actions?: careful, intentional, intimate, close, and personal instruction. He related to them as an elder brother would relate brothers, as a father would relate with sons. So when Christ Jesus said:

"Make disciples..." The disciples knew how to make disciples... with careful, intentional, intimate, close, and personal instruction.

It was a one to one understanding: the disciples are to lead the people as Christ led the people. The flow of grace was from those who had been given a greater measure to those who had less. The intent was that the immature may grow in grace by the doctrine, reproof, correction, and instruction from the mature.

For example, Paul would say to the believers in Rome; "For I long to see you, that I may impart to you some spiritual gift, so that you may be established— that is, that I may be encouraged together with you by the mutual faith both of you and me."

Paul would often refer to "my gospel" and encourage believers to "imitate me". This confuses some because it is known that there is God's gospel and no others. Paul was establishing the authority in which he was sent NOT saying his gospel was something other than the Lord's. Indeed, he notes that he "imitates Christ" so Paul's example to others had a foundation in the life and mysteries of Christ.

If we remove the interconnection of the members of Christ's Body to each other we are left with something other than what God intended. Fractures, divisions, orphan-mindsets come out of such errors. Without a place for the mature to lead the immature the immature will determine the direction of the church. The immature extol the character; the celebrity. He wishes always to be entertained or distracted. Nothing much is asked of the immature because he cannot handle responsibility.

Sickness and weakness come out of a church organized on broad strokes that appeal to many vs the depth of relationship modeled by the Lord and His disciples.

Grace and Peace.
Click to expand...
I get what you're saying but it causes a check in me. The Sacred Writings (2Tim3:15) and all the Writing/Scripture in these verses are the primary 'actor' as you put it. They are what make wise for salvation and what is benefical for the listed things to produce the stated result.

The pattern we see is that God does indeed gift teachers and I think spiritual mentorship by the mature is severely lacking in our time. In fact I think spiritual mentors are severely lacking in our time and there is substantial immaturity. In fact, I think our whole concept of assembly has become largely perverted.

But men are secondary to the Word and the Spirit.
 
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studier said:
I get what you're saying but it causes a check in me. The Sacred Writings (2Tim3:15) and all the Writing/Scripture in these verses are the primary 'actor' as you put it. They are what make wise for salvation and what is benefical for the listed things to produce the stated result.

The pattern we see is that God does indeed gift teachers and I think spiritual mentorship by the mature is severely lacking in our time. In fact I think spiritual mentors are severely lacking in our time and there is substantial immaturity. In fact, I think our whole concept of assembly has become largely perverted.

But men are secondary to the Word and the Spirit.
Click to expand...
That’s not what we see in the scriptures though, do we? The gospel or message is always brought by someone and delivered to another. Unlike the Mormons and other cults, unearthed writings did not bring the message of God’s kingdom to the world. God sent His Son. And He still sends sons. Indeed, unless someone is sent, the word cannot be preached and the message cannot be believed.

And the scriptures actually claim that someone has all authority in heaven and on earth. Unlike the written record, the One who has all authority cannot be corrupted or manipulated. Sure, we must be studies of the Word but that is not about long nights of memorization. That’s about letting the Word be alive in us to change us from the inside out. Approval, then, does not come from degrees or licenses but by demonstrations, a life lived, of the grace of God in us.

First the natural, then the spiritual, so an example of God’s spiritual kingdom must have a natural antecedent: that’s the family. The monk or the orphan cannot experience the kingdom of God nor can they distribute a grace they do not have. Interdependence, one to another, is an elementary principle of God’s House. We must have those who understand they are carriers of grace and those who understand that they need grace.
 
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Aaron56 said:
That’s not what we see in the scriptures though, do we? The gospel or message is always brought by someone and delivered to another. Unlike the Mormons and other cults, unearthed writings did not bring the message of God’s kingdom to the world. God sent His Son. And He still sends sons. Indeed, unless someone is sent, the word cannot be preached and the message cannot be believed.
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Yes, what I said is seen in the Scriptures.

Yes, the message was proclaimed by men and still is. No, in this day and age of print and other resources, men physically proclaiming is not the only means of communicating the message.

I understand your point and know that Timothy was taught by his mother and grandmother and then by Paul. I also understand how human relationship in the Body is important.

Simply put, you changed what's stated in 2Tim3:16-17 and didn't include 15. The "Sacred Writings" and the "Writing/Scripture" are the subject of the sentences.
 
Aaron56 said:
Here is the scripture in total:

2 Timothy 3:16-17 "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works."

Some quote this verse without understanding; making the scriptures the actor for doctrine, reproof, correction, and instruction in righteousness. To do so ignores the pattern seen in the scriptures: the spiritually mature guide the immature. Even the passage above is from the mature, Paul, to the immature, Timothy. Timothy is Paul's "son in the Lord". That obligates Paul to raise Timothy up in the Lord: showing him the father as he instructs.

Christ Jesus said to His disciples: "As the Father has sent Me, so I am sending you..."

The way in which Christ Jesus was sent by the Father is the manner in which He sent the disciples out from Himself. And what do we see by His actions?: careful, intentional, intimate, close, and personal instruction. He related to them as an elder brother would relate brothers, as a father would relate with sons. So when Christ Jesus said:

"Make disciples..." The disciples knew how to make disciples... with careful, intentional, intimate, close, and personal instruction.

It was a one to one understanding: the disciples are to lead the people as Christ led the people. The flow of grace was from those who had been given a greater measure to those who had less. The intent was that the immature may grow in grace by the doctrine, reproof, correction, and instruction from the mature.

For example, Paul would say to the believers in Rome; "For I long to see you, that I may impart to you some spiritual gift, so that you may be established— that is, that I may be encouraged together with you by the mutual faith both of you and me."

Paul would often refer to "my gospel" and encourage believers to "imitate me". This confuses some because it is known that there is God's gospel and no others. Paul was establishing the authority in which he was sent NOT saying his gospel was something other than the Lord's. Indeed, he notes that he "imitates Christ" so Paul's example to others had a foundation in the life and mysteries of Christ.

If we remove the interconnection of the members of Christ's Body to each other we are left with something other than what God intended. Fractures, divisions, orphan-mindsets come out of such errors. Without a place for the mature to lead the immature the immature will determine the direction of the church. The immature extol the character; the celebrity. He wishes always to be entertained or distracted. Nothing much is asked of the immature because he cannot handle responsibility.

Sickness and weakness come out of a church organized on broad strokes that appeal to many vs the depth of relationship modeled by the Lord and His disciples.

Grace and Peace.
Click to expand...
This is the most quoted passage by people claiming a biblical basis for sola scriptura even though it doesn't say that. I like too that it says good works which also blows sola fide out of the water.
 
studier said:
Yes, what I said is seen in the Scriptures.

Yes, the message was proclaimed by men and still is. No, in this day and age of print and other resources, men physically proclaiming is not the only means of communicating the message.

I understand your point and know that Timothy was taught by his mother and grandmother and then by Paul. I also understand how human relationship in the Body is important.

Simply put, you changed what's stated in 2Tim3:16-17 and didn't include 15. The "Sacred Writings" and the "Writing/Scripture" are the subject of the sentences.
Click to expand...
You seem committed to your current level of understanding.

I didn’t change anything. But if you wish, you can go back further in the passage where Paul tells Timothy:

“You, however, have followed my teaching, my conduct, my aim in life, my faith, my patience, my love, my steadfastness, 11 my persecutions and sufferings that happened to me at Antioch, at Iconium, and at Lystra…”

There is no Timothy without Paul… as designed by the Lord.
 
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Nedsk said:
This is the most quoted passage by people claiming a biblical basis for sola scriptura even though it doesn't say that. I like too that it says good works which also blows sola fide out of the water.
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There are many other passages that support the idea of sola scriptura. There are many passages that together teach the trinitarian nature of God, but the word "trinity" doesn't appear in any of them.

You misrepresent sola fide as well. Perhaps you've been reading ATG's tripe too much.

Don't waste your time on weak, easily-refuted arguments.
 
GRACE_ambassador said:
Then Why are There So Many Differences Between God's Two Distinct gospels
Within God's Two Different Dispensations, eh?:
Click to expand...

There's not two different gospels.

There's only one Gospel and that's the Gospel of the Kingdom, aka the Doctrine of Christ.

The old testament was not the gospel but a placeholder until God's Word would come in the flesh
 
Dino246 said:
There are many other passages that support the idea of sola scriptura. There are many passages that together teach the trinitarian nature of God, but the word "trinity" doesn't appear in any of them.

You misrepresent sola fide as well. Perhaps you've been reading ATG's tripe too much.

Don't waste your time on weak, easily-refuted arguments.
Click to expand...
Show me just one passage that says "faith alone" saves us. Not faith, faith alone.

Fetch
 
Guys, please take your other arguments to the vast number of threads dealing with them: trinity, faith vs works, etc. Please don't make this another one of those threads.
 
Dino246 said:
I’m not interested in your games.
Click to expand...
The host of this thread asked you to stop arguing. If you weren't interested though you wouldn't have replied. Start a new thread and you i will explain your error to you
 
"Father and son" is common language in the New Testament:

Paul: "For though you might have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet you do not have many fathers; for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel."
Paul: "For this reason I have sent Timothy to you, who is my beloved and faithful son in the Lord..."
Paul: "Therefore I urge you, imitate me."
Paul: "I do not write these things to shame you, but as my beloved children I warn you."
Paul: "My little children, for whom I labor in birth again until Christ is formed in you..."
Paul: "..as you know how we exhorted, and comforted, and charged every one of you, as a father does his own children..."
Paul: "To Titus, a true son in our common faith..."
Paul: "I appeal to you for my son Onesimus, whom I have begotten while in my chains..."
Peter: "She who is in Babylon, elect together with you, greets you; and so does Mark my son."
John: "My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous."
John: "My little children, let us not love in word or in tongue, but in deed and in truth."
John: "I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth."
And many others...

Why is it so uncommon to hear this in non-Roman Catholic churches?

And, if you are not familiar with me, I am far from a proponent of the Roman Catholic church.

"Father" is not an office or a title. It is a distinction of maturity; a son of God who has been given the responsibility of watching over the souls of less mature believers. He is known for his faithfulness to the Lord and to the people of God. He does not attain this status by cloistered study, he is foremost a servant to God and to the saints, doing the work of a shepherd among the sheep.

But he is not content to let the sheep remain in their current level of understanding. He seeks to raise them up to be able to shoulder the greater responsibilities of the House. Like raising children, the older eventually know how to set the table, cook the food, and care for the young... this is the natural antecedent of God's spiritual House. Eventually, all who have eaten at the table of the father can properly look after their own family and household. Since a father in the Lord is of a long line of fathers who fear the Lord - as the beginning of wisdom - the mature children should carry on the pattern of such a life in the houses they've been given.

John probably captured the need to build generationally better than any other writer. He addressed the babes, the children, the young men, and the fathers of his spiritual household. As a faithful steward of men's souls, he connects them all back to our One Father, the Lord Jesus Christ.
 
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