No living faith without works

[Nedsk]

How many works does it take to complete faith? How do you know if you have enough to complete your faith?

Good grief. The same tired questions. Right up there with are you saved? And have you accepted Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and savior. You guys need to ask for a new handbook with new questions.

The most direct answer is you don't know which is why Paul says work out your salvation with feer and trembling. Don't waste my time with your interpretation of what you think that means. But I suspect you don't know what else to say so you will.

We also dont know which is why Paul asks us to consider how to spur one.anithrr to love and good works.? Why good works? Paul says not to neglect good works because they please God.

We also don't know which is why Paul warns that we will appear before the judgement seat of Christ and that we will each receive suitable recompense for our conduct in the body, whether good or bad.

And Paul says eternal life will be granted to those who seek honor and glory and immortality by PERSEVERING in good works

He also warns people to record themselves to good works so that they will not be fruitful

But how much faith do you need? How much faith is enough? Just mouthing the words is useless as Jesus himself said.

And finally judgement will be coming Matt 25:31-46. Notice there is no mention of how many works but people are certainly judged by what they do or don't so so your questions are meaningless at best

Get a new tactic please.

 

[Just_A__Follower]

Good grief. The same tired questions. Right up there with are you saved? And have you accepted Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and savior. You guys need to ask for a new handbook with new questions.

The most direct answer is you don't know which is why Paul says work out your salvation with feer and trembling. Don't waste my time with your interpretation of what you think that means. But I suspect you don't know what else to say so you will.

We also dont know which is why Paul asks us to consider how to spur one.anithrr to love and good works.? Why good works? Paul says not to neglect good works because they please God.

We also don't know which is why Paul warns that we will appear before the judgement seat of Christ and that we will each receive suitable recompense for our conduct in the body, whether good or bad.

And Paul says eternal life will be granted to those who seek honor and glory and immortality by PERSEVERING in good works

He also warns people to record themselves to good works so that they will not be fruitful

But how much faith do you need? How much faith is enough? Just mouthing the words is useless as Jesus himself said.

And finally judgement will be coming Matt 25:31-46. Notice there is no mention of how many works but people are certainly judged by what they do or don't so so your questions are meaningless at best

Get a new tactic please.

I don’t have a tactic. I’m genuinely trying to understand your view.

Are we saved by faith plus works, or by a genuine faith that naturally produces works?

At judgment, is God weighing our deeds like employees hoping for a year-end bonus, or receiving us like a loving parent greeting their children, pleased with hearts that persevered in love?

 

[Nedsk]

I don’t have a tactic. I’m genuinely trying to understand your view.

Are we saved by faith plus works, or by a genuine faith that naturally produces works?

At judgment, is God weighing our deeds like employees hoping for a year-end bonus, or receiving us like a loving parent greeting their children, pleased with hearts that persevered in love?

You have to show from scripture that faith causes works. If it did Paul would have had no reason to earn people as often as I just pointed out to you. If faith caused works there would be no need for judgement as everyone with faith alone would automatically be saved. You can't say faith alone but then claim faith "produces" works. That's having it both ways and is logically, intellectually and theologically inconsistent.

What we know is faith alone is not sufficient for salvation since by definition if it was it wouldn't need completion by works and there would be no need to discusse works at all.

Right persevered in works. Why would God need to weight out deeds if all thats necessary is faith. Again you can't say works dont matter then try and claim God weighs out deeds. Works have to be a choice if we will be judged by them otherwise there is nothing to judge.

 

[mailmandan]

I don’t have a tactic. I’m genuinely trying to understand your view.

Are we saved by faith plus works, or by a genuine faith that naturally produces works?

At judgment, is God weighing our deeds like employees hoping for a year-end bonus, or receiving us like a loving parent greeting their children, pleased with hearts that persevered in love?

In regard to works, I've heard some folks ask, "does God grade on a curve?" and "what is the passing grade?" Here is how I see it. Man is saved through faith and not by works (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9); yet genuine faith is (evidenced) by works. (James 2:14-24)

*Jesus Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" (Romans 3:24-26) and not based on the merits of our works. (Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9)

It is through faith "in Jesus Christ alone" (and not based on the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 4:5-6; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies does not remain alone (unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine. (James 2:14-24) *Perfect Harmony*

All genuine believers are fruitful yet not all are equally fruitful. Works will determine rewards and loss of rewards at the judgment seat of Christ. (1 Corinthians 3:11-15)

 

[Just_A__Follower]

You have to show from scripture that faith causes works. If it did Paul would have had no reason to earn people as often as I just pointed out to you. If faith caused works there would be no need for judgement as everyone with faith alone would automatically be saved. You can't say faith alone but then claim faith "produces" works. That's having it both ways and is logically, intellectually and theologically inconsistent.

What we know is faith alone is not sufficient for salvation since by definition if it was it wouldn't need completion by works and there would be no need to discusse works at all.

Right persevered in works. Why would God need to weight out deeds if all thats necessary is faith. Again you can't say works dont matter then try and claim God weighs out deeds. Works have to be a choice if we will be judged by them otherwise there is nothing to judge.

I see no need to provide scripture since I’m sure you have already read it. Genuine faith is a relationship with God, not a checklist to earn favor. The gift of salvation has already been given and you cannot pay for it. Are the good things you do your own or God’s working through you? If they are your own, you would be adding them to salvation. If they are God’s, then they are a natural product of faith and the works are the evidence of Him working in you. It is like workers building a grand cathedral under the direction of a master architect. Everyone marvels at the cathedral, but no one knows the names of the brick layers or glass installers. The work is done through their hands, but the credit belongs to the architect. Likewise, good works are God’s through us and not ours in the ultimate sense. When we do things on our own, they are just works. When God works through us, He puts the good in them and they become good works

 

[Standard]

It's not just faith though. Works don't save but they complete faith that does save as James says.

God has always wanted us to do good works, He has been very clear on that. Just that, once you sin, you're a sinner and not worthy of His kingdom... Hence Jesus took our wage of death from us so we may believe and be saved. Jesus saved us as we failed but God still wants us to do good, it's just we aren't good enough to save ourselves on our own.

 

[Nedsk]

I see no need to provide scripture since I’m sure you have already read it. Genuine faith is a relationship with God, not a checklist to earn favor. The gift of salvation has already been given and you cannot pay for it. Are the good things you do your own or God’s working through you? If they are your own, you would be adding them to salvation. If they are God’s, then they are a natural product of faith and the works are the evidence of Him working in you. It is like workers building a grand cathedral under the direction of a master architect. Everyone marvels at the cathedral, but no one knows the names of the brick layers or glass installers. The work is done through their hands, but the credit belongs to the architect. Likewise, good works are God’s through us and not ours in the ultimate sense. When we do things on our own, they are just works. When God works through us, He puts the good in them and they become good works

No need because there are none

Are the good works we do by "God working through" us a choice we can decide to do or not do?

Is faith alone sufficient for salvation?

 

[Nedsk]

God has always wanted us to do good works, He has been very clear on that. Just that, once you sin, you're a sinner and not worthy of His kingdom... Hence Jesus took our wage of death from us so we may believe and be saved. Jesus saved us as we failed but God still wants us to do good, it's just we aren't good enough to save ourselves on our own.

God wants us to do good works but does he make us do good works or is it a choice?

 

[Just_A__Follower]

No need because there are none

Are the good works we do by "God working through" us a choice we can decide to do or not do?

Is faith alone sufficient for salvation?

There are two types of Christians: those who focus on what they do, and those who focus on what God does in them. James acts as a mirror, showing that living faith naturally produces good works, which reflect God at work but do not save us. Salvation comes by faith alone. Choosing to let God work through us is a choice to surrender our way to Him. Our works are never the source of salvation, they are simply the evidence that God is alive and active in our lives.

 

[Nedsk]

There are two types of Christians: those who focus on what they do, and those who focus on what God does in them. James acts as a mirror, showing that living faith naturally produces good works, which reflect God at work but do not save us. Salvation comes by faith alone. Choosing to let God work through us is a choice to surrender our way to Him. Our works are never the source of salvation, they are simply the evidence that God is alive and active in our lives.

No one has ever claimed works save anyone. This is why it is utterly impossible to talk to you people. You're answering something that no one brought up.

If faith alone was sufficient, by definition, it wouldn't need completion and there would be no need to ever mention good works. Now you either have to think and address what I actually say, or there isn't any reason to continue talking to you even thought I'd like to. Your rote recitation of Scripture is not impressive to me. It's not rooted in what's actually written in Scripture and Ive already pointed out how you're addressing things that were never said. Thats the tell that it's all just rote memorization.

 

[Dino246]

If faith alone was sufficient, by definition, it wouldn't need completion and there would be no need to ever mention good works.

At what point is a person saved? Before they begin their first “good work”, after it is complete, or at some other point?

If “good works” are required for salvation, then a person is not saved until they have completed at least one such “work”. How can an unsaved person do a good work acceptable to the Lord?

Drill down and you will find that your position is logically untenable.

 

[Just_A__Follower]

No one has ever claimed works save anyone. This is why it is utterly impossible to talk to you people. You're answering something that no one brought up.

If faith alone was sufficient, by definition, it wouldn't need completion and there would be no need to ever mention good works. Now you either have to think and address what I actually say, or there isn't any reason to continue talking to you even thought I'd like to. Your rote recitation of Scripture is not impressive to me. It's not rooted in what's actually written in Scripture and Ive already pointed out how you're addressing things that were never said. Thats the tell that it's all just rote memorization.

Not sure who “you people” are or why you have such an attitude. Your view makes absolutely no sense.

You say faith saves us. I agree.

You say works don’t save us. I agree.

But then you say that works are required for salvation. If that’s the case then your view includes works saving us. You saying faith alone isn’t sufficient which means something must be added to it to make it sufficient. You’re saying that we are saved by works and faith. You’re saying that we must have faith then work to earn a gift that’s already been given.

 

[Nedsk]

Not sure who “you people” are or why you have such an attitude. Your view makes absolutely no sense.

You say faith saves us. I agree.

You say works don’t save us. I agree.

But then you say that works are required for salvation. If that’s the case then your view includes works saving us. You saying faith alone isn’t sufficient which means something must be added to it to make it sufficient. You’re saying that we are saved by works and faith. You’re saying that we must have faith then work to earn a gift that’s already been given.

I have an attitude because "you people" aka: those who believe like you do, don't really listen. What I would like to have you do, so I can verify your understanding, is have you tell me what I actually said about works. Can you do that?

Let me be clear that is what Scripture says not what I say. This is why I struggle to converse with you people. You just refuse to listen. You are going to try and tell me that what Scripture says isn't what Scripture means. You can post 100 passages from Scripture that say we are saved by faith but not a single one of them says "faith alone". In fact the ONLY place scripture says "faith alone" it's preceded by, "...by works and not by..." and again you will try and tell me why Scripture doesn't mean what it says. So I have a dilemma, I can use the brain God gave me and read the words or I can listen to you tell me why the words I read don't mean what they say they mean.

 

[Nedsk]

At what point is a person saved? Before they begin their first “good work”, after it is complete, or at some other point?

If “good works” are required for salvation, then a person is not saved until they have completed at least one such “work”. How can an unsaved person do a good work acceptable to the Lord?

Drill down and you will find that your position is logically untenable.

For you it might be but not for me. You're assuming salvation is an event thats why you people concocted the OSAS idea but Scripture doesn't support that.

 

[Just_A__Follower]

I have an attitude because "you people" aka: those who believe like you do, don't really listen. What I would like to have you do, so I can verify your understanding, is have you tell me what I actually said about works. Can you do that?

Let me be clear that is what Scripture says not what I say. This is why I struggle to converse with you people. You just refuse to listen. You are going to try and tell me that what Scripture says isn't what Scripture means. You can post 100 passages from Scripture that say we are saved by faith but not a single one of them says "faith alone". In fact the ONLY place scripture says "faith alone" it's preceded by, "...by works and not by..." and again you will try and tell me why Scripture doesn't mean what it says. So I have a dilemma, I can use the brain God gave me and read the words or I can listen to you tell me why the words I read don't mean what they say they mean.

I’ll keep it simple.
Do you believe:
1: we are saved by faith and works?
Or
2: we are saved by faith?

Pick one.

 

[Nedsk]

I’ll keep it simple.
Do you believe:
1: we are saved by faith and works?
Or
2: we are saved by faith?

Pick one.

Neither of those are accurate choices. This is another example of you people not listening.

I believe we are saved by faith completed by works just as a scripture says. Want me to show you where?

As to the second you don't believe that because you want to claim faith alone but then say works come as result of faith. You want it bot ways but that's you just ignoring what you don't like.

 

[Dino246]

For you it might be but not for me. You're assuming salvation is an event thats why you people concocted the OSAS idea but Scripture doesn't support that.

“You people”? “Concocted”? Your disdain couldn’t be more clear.

This has nothing whatsoever to do with “OSAS”. It has everything to do with your view of salvation.

 

[Nedsk]

“You people”? “Concocted”? Your disdain couldn’t be more clear.

This has nothing whatsoever to do with “OSAS”. It has everything to do with your view of salvation.

Not disdain but frustration that l, "you people": aka those who believe like you, try to convince me the words I read in Scripture don't mean what the words mean, that they mean what you say they mean: aka" concocted"


A view which is biblical

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

Neither of those are accurate choices. This is another example of you people not listening.

I believe we are saved by faith completed by works just as a scripture says. Want me to show you where?

As to the second you don't believe that because you want to claim faith alone but then say works come as result of faith. You want it bot ways but that's you just ignoring what you don't like.

Please don't be sad or discouraged.

These are the last days, so not everyone who claims to be Christian will obey Lord Jesus.

Just know that God knows who are His. Not everone who claims salvation has been sealed with the Holy Spirit. You can tell who has Him by their love in obedience to the Lord and the fruit of the Holy Spirit.

God looks beyond mere declarations of faith.


🕊

 

[Dino246]

A view which is biblical

Yet doesn’t account for all the relevant biblical texts.

“Circumcision is required” is “biblical” but that doesn’t mean it is a sound conclusion of all the relevant passages.