Grace Saves, Faith Receives, Christ Secures

[Nedsk]

You're proving my point. In Matthew 7:21 Jesus IS NOT talking about people who believed His gospel & somehow ""didn't do enough works"". He's talking about people who never did the will of the Father in the 1st place.

Jesus defines the Father's will explicitly:
And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. (Jn 6:40).
(NOTE: The will of the Father is to believe in the Son, not to pile up impressive religious activity (which is exactly what the Matthew 7 crowd brags about).

As for Paul, ""apart from works of the law"" DOESN'T secretly mean ""but still by works."" He contrasts faith & works as opposite principles (Rom 4:4–5, Gal 2:16, Eph 2:8–9). He absolutely encourages works, but always as the fruit of salvation (Eph 2:10), never as the basis of it. So no, I'm not forcing Scripture to say what I want, I'm letting the salvation texts speak plainly: believe > justified > saved. Works follow, they don't contribute.

Paul makes no secret of it, he explicitly says do works. Why discuss works at all if works aren't irrelevant to salvation? It's ridiculous. You people just ignore what you don't like

 

[FlyingDove]

Paul makes no secret of it, he explicitly says do works. Why discuss works at all if works aren't irrelevant to salvation? It's ridiculous. You people just ignore what you don't like

Paul talks about works because works belong to the Christian life, not because they contribute one ounce to justification. If works played any role in salvation, Paul could never say what he actually says: ""To the one who does NOT work but believes, his faith is counted for righteousness"" (Rom 4:5). That single verse alone detonates your entire system.

Paul doesn't hide anything, he draws a hard line between faith & works as opposite principles (Rom 4:4–5, Gal 2:16, Eph 2:8–9). He teaches works as the RESULT of salvation (Eph 2:10), not the REQUIREMENT for it.

Discussing works after salvation doesn't make them part of salvation. You're the one ignoring Scripture. The salvation texts say believe > justified > saved. You're trying to rewrite them as believe + perform > maybe saved. That's not Paul, that's not Jesus & it's not the gospel.

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

Paul makes no secret of it, he explicitly says do works. Why discuss works at all if works aren't irrelevant to salvation? It's ridiculous. You people just ignore what you don't like

If they don't want to, let them do that. God doesn't want forced obedience.


🕊

 

[Ouch]

Jesus ministered to Israel under Law. The Church's doctrine begins with the risen Christs revelation to Paul. Mixing them is the root of modern doctrinal chaos.

Jesus' earthly ministry was not New Covenant Christianity content, it was the final Old Covenant ministry to Israel. He was ""born under the Law"" (Gal 4:4), lived under the Law, taught under the Law & was ""sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel""(Matt 15:24). Paul says Christ was ""a minister of the circumcision"" (Rom 15:8), meaning His mission was covenantally tied to Israel, not to Gentiles & not to the Church. And because a covenant begins only at death (Heb 9:16–17), the New Covenant does not start at Matthew 1 but at the cross, with its public inauguration in Acts 2, when the risen Christ pours out the Holy Spirit out on believing Jews ONLY.

Matt - Old Covenant: Chapters 1–27 - New Covenant era: Chapter 28 = 96% Old Covenant

Mark - Old Covenant: 1–15 - New Covenant era: Chapter 16 =  94% Old Covenant

Luke - Old Covenant: Chapters 1–23 - New Covenant era: Chapters 24 =  95% Old Covenant

John - Old Covenant: Chapters 1–19 - New Covenant era: Chapters 20–21 = = 90% Old Covenant

Matt - John - Average: 93-94% Old Covenant content.

This means nearly everything Jesus said & did before His death belongs to the Old Covenant era, addressed to Israel, operating under Mosaic Law & aimed at confirming promises to the patriarchs, not revealing Church doctrine.

Acts is a transitional book. It begins with Israel only (Acts 1–7), moves to Samaritans (Acts 8)& the universal shift happens in Acts 10, when the risen Christ personally gives the Holy Spirit to Gentiles exactly as He did to Jews in Acts 2. Peter testifies that God ""gave them the same gift"" he gave us a Pentecost (Acts 11:17), marking the 1st Gentile entry into the newly revealed Body of Christ, the one new man of Jew and Gentile together. Acts 15 then confirms that Gentiles are not under Moses. Acts is the hinge between the Old Covenant world of the Gospel of the Kingdom. The Kingdom is where the King is & the New Covenant revelation is given by the Risen Lord to Paul.

The doctrine for the Body of Christ comes after the cross, after the resurrection, after the Holy Spirit is given & is revealed through Paul, who received the gospel of grace by direct revelation of the risen Lord Jesus (Gal 1:11–12, Eph 3:2–9, Rom 16:25). That is why the Church's identity, instructions & doctrine are found in the 13 letters Paul wrote, not in Jesus' pre‑cross ministry to Israel.

Myles Coverdale captured the whole issue: ""Ask of every text: of whom is it spoken, to whom, at what time, where, to what intent, with what circumstances, considering what goes before and what follows."" Apply that to the Gospels & the covenant categories become unavoidable: Jesus speaks to Israel under Moses; Paul speaks to the Church under grace. Ignore those distinctions & you will always drag Moses into Christianity and never understand grace.

Trying to convince yourself?

Takes a lot of talking doesn't it, I call it story time.

So much simpler, just share HIS word and let HIM do the convincing!!!

 

[FlyingDove]

Acts 2:38 Parsed

The issue is what Scripture says the events meant & how God Himself changed the Holy Spirit' dispensational stewardship (Acts 2 salvation given after & Acts 10 before water)

Under the Old Covenant & during early Acts, Israel's remission framework was tied to covenant repentance & national guilt (Acts 2:36–38), but remission itself always came by blood, never by water (Lev 17:11; Heb 9:22; Matt 26:28). Water purified the flesh (Heb 9:10), but only blood removed sin. Lev 17:11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul. That is why your claim that water remits sins cannot stand.

2ndly, Acts 2 Peter is preaching to Israel alone - ""Men of Judea,"" ""all who dwell in Jerusalem,"" ""Men of Israel"" at a Jewish feast, in a Jewish city, fulfilling a Jewish prophecy, under Jewish COVENANT LAWS.

The Holy Spirit is given after repentance & water because Israel's covenant initiations were physical. Just as physical circumcision initiated the Old Covenant.

Gentiles were never under Israel's purification system, part of John's water baptism or the Mosaic covenant (Eph 2:12). Ten years after Pentecost God turns to the Gentiles in Acts 10, He does not repeat the Acts 2 order - He reverses it. The Holy Spirit/SALVATION falls on Cornelius' household while Peter is still preaching (Acts 10:44)

The Holy Spirit is Gods Gift of Eternal Life. You can't change recorded scripture:

Mark 1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.
(NOTE: He shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost. Also see Mat 3:11, Lk 3:16 & Jn 1:33)

2 Tim 1:14 Refers to the Holy Spirit as a Good Deposit.

2 Cor 5:5, Eph 1:14 & 2 Cor 1:22. Refer to the Holy Spirit as "the earnest" = Deposit or Pledge.

Eph 1:13, 2 Cor 1:22 & Eph 4:30 Refer to the Holy Spirit as a Seal.

2 Tim 1:14 The Holy Spirit who dwells within us, guard the good deposit entrusted to you
(NOTE: The Holy Spirit dwelling within us. Is God's good deposit given us until the day of redemption)

2 Cor 5:5 God, who also hath given unto us the "earnest" of the Spirit
(NOTE: God's Holy Spirit dwelling within us is the earnest. Earnest translated from the Greek word: arrabon. Also means a deposit/pledge. In modern Greek arrabona is an "engagement ring.")

2 Cor 1:22 Who hath also "sealed us" & "given the earnest" of the Holy Spirit in our hearts
(NOTE: God has placed His Holy Spirit in the believers heart. As a DEPOSIT/PLEDGE & SEAL, until the soon coming day of our final redemption)

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
(NOTE: You heard about Christ's finished sin redemptive payment & resurrection. When you believed/trusted, Christ sealed/baptized you with His Holy Spirit).

Eph1:14 Which is the "earnest" of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession
(NOTE: The Holy Spirit by which only Christ baptizes/seals & indwells us. Is God's earnest = a down payment/pledge)

Eph 4:30 grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are "sealed" unto the day of redemption
(NOTE: Believers are SEALED with God's Holy Spirit. Christ's pledge/promise that he will come for us)

GENTILES RECEIVE GODS ETERNAL LIFE GIVING HOLY SPIRIT - BEFORE WATER! - Peter explains the process:

Acts 10:
45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
(NOTE: Vs44, Gentiles RECEIVE Gods Eternal Life Gift-the Holy Spirit - BEFORE WATER!. Vs47, Gentiles HAVE received Gods Eternal Life Gift-the Holy Spirit. - BEFORE WATER!)

Acts 11: Peter says
16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.
(NOTE: Vs16, Jesus alone baptizes with/in/by His Eternal Giving Holy Spirit. Vs18, GOD GAVE the Gentiles the same Salvation SEALING-Eph 1:13-14, 4:30, 2 Cor 1:22, 5:5, 2 Tim 1:14-FOREVER INDWELLING (Jn 14:16)- REPENTANCE GRANTING Holy Spirit- SAVED-SEALED-FORGIVEN-BY FAITH ALONE-BEFORE WATER!)

That is the dispensational shift - from a Jewish, water-mediated reception of the Holy Spirit in Acts 2 to a universal, faith-based Spirit baptism in Acts 10.

This is exactly how Gentiles become the fulfillment of God's promise to Abraham that he would be the father of many nations (Gen 17:5; Gal 3:8, 14). Not through rituals, but through faith.

Peter preached Jesus death & resurrection in Acts 2 & Acts 10. Same gospel message Paul preached (1 Cor 15:1-4 & Rom 10:9-10). But God changes the Holy Spirit administration from "repent from breaking covenant & be water baptized to receive the Holy Sprit.

Gentiles were never under any Mosaic covenants (Eph 2:12) During Peters message God changes the previous Holy Spirit' administering from repent, be water baptized & receive the Holy Spirit to ""hear, believe, receive the H/S, then be water baptized.""

 

[Nedsk]

Paul talks about works because works belong to the Christian life, not because they contribute one ounce to justification. If works played any role in salvation, Paul could never say what he actually says: ""To the one who does NOT work but believes, his faith is counted for righteousness"" (Rom 4:5). That single verse alone detonates your entire system.

Paul doesn't hide anything, he draws a hard line between faith & works as opposite principles (Rom 4:4–5, Gal 2:16, Eph 2:8–9). He teaches works as the RESULT of salvation (Eph 2:10), not the REQUIREMENT for it.

Discussing works after salvation doesn't make them part of salvation. You're the one ignoring Scripture. The salvation texts say believe > justified > saved. You're trying to rewrite them as believe + perform > maybe saved. That's not Paul, that's not Jesus & it's not the gospel.

They belong to the Christian life? So they aren't necessary for salvation so their role in the Christianife is what? Oh that's right they're evidence but you can't tell me who needs the evidence.

No he makes a distinction between faith and works of the law. I love the way you just put words in and take words out as it suits you.

 

[Nedsk]

If they don't want to, let them do that. God doesn't want forced obedience.


🕊

They think he does because faith "produces" works. You have no.choice in the matter. And they say if you don't do the works you were never really saved in the first place. Mental gymnastics

 

[FlyingDove]

Salvation Is Christ's Work Alone - Rewards Are Based on Our Obedience Afterward

Saved by Faith Alone, Rewarded by Faithful Obedience

1st, Salvation is by faith alone in Christ alone.

Jesus won the war through His obedient (Rom 5:19) faithfulness unto death, even the death of the cross. (Phil 2:8). His sin‑atoning death & resurrection are the Fathers public receipt that the required wage for sin has been fully paid & accepted.

When a person calls on Jesus for sin forgiveness & places their faith in His Finished Redemptive work, a faithful Jesus who knows the heart of every person (Rev 2:23) forgives them (1 Jn 1:9) & Holy Spirit Baptizes (Matt 3:11) indwelling them (Eph 3:17) with His Forever (Jn 14:16) salvation sealing (Eph 1:13-14, 4:30, 2 Cor 1:22, 5:5) gift of eternal life. Salvation is 100% Christ's doing - not ours

After salvation what's next? Heaven is a meritocracy. The New Covenant is a reward system, not a punishment system (1 Cor 3:10–15 & Matt 19:27–30).

Matt 10:42 Even the smallest act done in His name - a cup of cold water - receives a reward.

Lk 19:
12 Jesus said; A nobleman went to a distant country to obtain for himself a kingdom, and [then] to return.
(NOTE: Jesus ascended to heaven & will soon return.)

13 So he called ten of his servants, and gave them ten minas [one apiece, each equal to about a hundred days’ wages] and said to them, ‘Do business [with this] until I return.
(NOTE: Jesus gives His Holy Spirit (by grace through faith, not works, Eph 2:8–9) so we can continue His work of revealing God's grace & plan)

15 When he returned, after receiving the kingdom, he ordered that these servants, to whom he had given the money, be called to him, that he might find out what business they had done.
(NOTE: This is the Judgment Seat of Christ (Rom 14:10 & 2 Cor 5:10), for believers only - not the Great White Throne (Rev 20:11–13).

16 The first one came before him and said, ‘Lord, your mina has made ten more minas.

17 And he said to him, ‘Well done, good servant! Because you proved yourself faithful and trustworthy in a very little thing, you shall [now] have authority over ten cities [in my kingdom].
(NOTE: The servant who multiplied his mina 10 fold is rewarded with authority over 10 cities. Faithful work > greater authority.)

18 The second one came and said, ‘Lord, your mina has made five minas.

19 And he said to him also, ‘And you shall take charge over five cities.’
(NOTE: The servant who gained 5 minas receives authority over 5 cities. Less work > less authority, but still rewarded.)

26 [Jesus explained,] I tell you that to everyone who has [because he valued his gifts from God and has used them wisely], more will be given; but from the one who does not have [because he disregarded his gifts from God], even what he has will be taken away.
(NOTE: Faithfulness increases reward, neglect decreases reward.)

Matt 19:
27 Then Peter answered Him, saying, “Look, we have given up everything and followed You [becoming Your disciples and accepting You as Teacher and Lord]; what then will there be for us?”
(NOTE: Peter asks Jesus what do I get for my work done for you?)

28 Jesus said to them, “I assure you and most solemnly say to you, in the renewal [that is, the Messianic restoration and regeneration of all things] when the Son of Man sits on His glorious throne, you [who have followed Me, becoming My disciples] will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
(NOTE: Jesus didn't scold Peter or tell his the His grace was enough. Jesus said, you gave Much & your Reward will be Great! You'll sit on a throne & judge on my behalf)

29 And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother [d]or children or farms for My name’s sake will receive many times as much, and will inherit eternal life.
(NOTE: Jesus said, I pay based on merit & my return on investment is exponential to your input).

1 Cor 3:
8 Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.
(NOTE: Each believer receives a reward according to his own labor.)

11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
(NOTE: Gold & silver = Good works done in Christ's name. Hay, wood & stubble = no works, selfish works, even bad works)

13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
(NOTE: Every work good & bad will be tested)

14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
(NOTE: Good works done in Christ's name will receive a reward)

15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
(NOTE: Hay, wood & stubble deeds will burn-up bringing, shame & loss = """OF REWARDS""" not SALVATION)

Rereading verse 15: He "Will SUFFER LOSS", though he "HIMSELF WILL BE SAVED"

Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

Matt, Lk & 1 Cor posted all teach: After salvation (100% Christ's doing) good work done receives reward, negative works could result in losing a previously given reward. The exception of your salvation will never be lost. Christ never breaks His promises/covenants (Rom 11:29).

Christ's obedience purchased our salvation, our obedience proves our gratitude & determines our reward. Saved by His work & rewarded for ours.

 

[Nedsk]

Salvation Is Christ's Work Alone - Rewards Are Based on Our Obedience Afterward

Saved by Faith Alone, Rewarded by Faithful Obedience

1st, Salvation is by faith alone in Christ alone.

Jesus won the war through His obedient (Rom 5:19) faithfulness unto death, even the death of the cross. (Phil 2:8). His sin‑atoning death & resurrection are the Fathers public receipt that the required wage for sin has been fully paid & accepted.

When a person calls on Jesus for sin forgiveness & places their faith in His Finished Redemptive work, a faithful Jesus who knows the heart of every person (Rev 2:23) forgives them (1 Jn 1:9) & Holy Spirit Baptizes (Matt 3:11) indwelling them (Eph 3:17) with His Forever (Jn 14:16) salvation sealing (Eph 1:13-14, 4:30, 2 Cor 1:22, 5:5) gift of eternal life. Salvation is 100% Christ's doing - not ours

After salvation what's next? Heaven is a meritocracy. The New Covenant is a reward system, not a punishment system (1 Cor 3:10–15 & Matt 19:27–30).

Matt 10:42 Even the smallest act done in His name - a cup of cold water - receives a reward.

Lk 19:
12 Jesus said; A nobleman went to a distant country to obtain for himself a kingdom, and [then] to return.
(NOTE: Jesus ascended to heaven & will soon return.)

13 So he called ten of his servants, and gave them ten minas [one apiece, each equal to about a hundred days’ wages] and said to them, ‘Do business [with this] until I return.
(NOTE: Jesus gives His Holy Spirit (by grace through faith, not works, Eph 2:8–9) so we can continue His work of revealing God's grace & plan)

15 When he returned, after receiving the kingdom, he ordered that these servants, to whom he had given the money, be called to him, that he might find out what business they had done.
(NOTE: This is the Judgment Seat of Christ (Rom 14:10 & 2 Cor 5:10), for believers only - not the Great White Throne (Rev 20:11–13).

16 The first one came before him and said, ‘Lord, your mina has made ten more minas.

17 And he said to him, ‘Well done, good servant! Because you proved yourself faithful and trustworthy in a very little thing, you shall [now] have authority over ten cities [in my kingdom].
(NOTE: The servant who multiplied his mina 10 fold is rewarded with authority over 10 cities. Faithful work > greater authority.)

18 The second one came and said, ‘Lord, your mina has made five minas.

19 And he said to him also, ‘And you shall take charge over five cities.’
(NOTE: The servant who gained 5 minas receives authority over 5 cities. Less work > less authority, but still rewarded.)

26 [Jesus explained,] I tell you that to everyone who has [because he valued his gifts from God and has used them wisely], more will be given; but from the one who does not have [because he disregarded his gifts from God], even what he has will be taken away.
(NOTE: Faithfulness increases reward, neglect decreases reward.)

Matt 19:
27 Then Peter answered Him, saying, “Look, we have given up everything and followed You [becoming Your disciples and accepting You as Teacher and Lord]; what then will there be for us?”
(NOTE: Peter asks Jesus what do I get for my work done for you?)

28 Jesus said to them, “I assure you and most solemnly say to you, in the renewal [that is, the Messianic restoration and regeneration of all things] when the Son of Man sits on His glorious throne, you [who have followed Me, becoming My disciples] will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
(NOTE: Jesus didn't scold Peter or tell his the His grace was enough. Jesus said, you gave Much & your Reward will be Great! You'll sit on a throne & judge on my behalf)

29 And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother [d]or children or farms for My name’s sake will receive many times as much, and will inherit eternal life.
(NOTE: Jesus said, I pay based on merit & my return on investment is exponential to your input).

1 Cor 3:
8 Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.
(NOTE: Each believer receives a reward according to his own labor.)

11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
(NOTE: Gold & silver = Good works done in Christ's name. Hay, wood & stubble = no works, selfish works, even bad works)

13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
(NOTE: Every work good & bad will be tested)

14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
(NOTE: Good works done in Christ's name will receive a reward)

15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
(NOTE: Hay, wood & stubble deeds will burn-up bringing, shame & loss = """OF REWARDS""" not SALVATION)

Rereading verse 15: He "Will SUFFER LOSS", though he "HIMSELF WILL BE SAVED"

Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

Matt, Lk & 1 Cor posted all teach: After salvation (100% Christ's doing) good work done receives reward, negative works could result in losing a previously given reward. The exception of your salvation will never be lost. Christ never breaks His promises/covenants (Rom 11:29).

Christ's obedience purchased our salvation, our obedience proves our gratitude & determines our reward. Saved by His work & rewarded for ours.

Volume does not equal correct. It never ends with you people

Rewards? Obedience? Is obedience a choice?

Can I be saved and not have to gain "rewards" for my obedience?

The thing is you folks have to bed into pretzels to explain away works.

Jesus says only the one who does (verb) the will of my heavenly Father will enter the kingdom of heaven. A hundred other messages doesn't change that

 

[FlyingDove]

Salvation Is Christ's Work Alone - Rewards Are Based on Our Obedience Afterward

Saved by Faith Alone, Rewarded by Faithful Obedience

1st, Salvation is by faith alone in Christ alone.

Jesus won the war through His obedient (Rom 5:19) faithfulness unto death, even the death of the cross. (Phil 2:8). His sin‑atoning death & resurrection are the Fathers public receipt that the required wage for sin has been fully paid & accepted.

When a person calls on Jesus for sin forgiveness & places their faith in His Finished Redemptive work, a faithful Jesus who knows the heart of every person (Rev 2:23) forgives them (1 Jn 1:9) & Holy Spirit Baptizes (Matt 3:11) indwelling them (Eph 3:17) with His Forever (Jn 14:16) salvation sealing (Eph 1:13-14, 4:30, 2 Cor 1:22, 5:5) gift of eternal life. Salvation is 100% Christ's doing - not ours

After salvation what's next? Heaven is a meritocracy. The New Covenant is a reward system, not a punishment system (1 Cor 3:10–15 & Matt 19:27–30).

Matt 10:42 Even the smallest act done in His name - a cup of cold water - receives a reward.

Lk 19:
12 Jesus said; A nobleman went to a distant country to obtain for himself a kingdom, and [then] to return.
(NOTE: Jesus ascended to heaven & will soon return.)

13 So he called ten of his servants, and gave them ten minas [one apiece, each equal to about a hundred days’ wages] and said to them, ‘Do business [with this] until I return.
(NOTE: Jesus gives His Holy Spirit (by grace through faith, not works, Eph 2:8–9) so we can continue His work of revealing God's grace & plan)

15 When he returned, after receiving the kingdom, he ordered that these servants, to whom he had given the money, be called to him, that he might find out what business they had done.
(NOTE: This is the Judgment Seat of Christ (Rom 14:10 & 2 Cor 5:10), for believers only - not the Great White Throne (Rev 20:11–13).

16 The first one came before him and said, ‘Lord, your mina has made ten more minas.

17 And he said to him, ‘Well done, good servant! Because you proved yourself faithful and trustworthy in a very little thing, you shall [now] have authority over ten cities [in my kingdom].
(NOTE: The servant who multiplied his mina 10 fold is rewarded with authority over 10 cities. Faithful work > greater authority.)

18 The second one came and said, ‘Lord, your mina has made five minas.

19 And he said to him also, ‘And you shall take charge over five cities.’
(NOTE: The servant who gained 5 minas receives authority over 5 cities. Less work > less authority, but still rewarded.)

26 [Jesus explained,] I tell you that to everyone who has [because he valued his gifts from God and has used them wisely], more will be given; but from the one who does not have [because he disregarded his gifts from God], even what he has will be taken away.
(NOTE: Faithfulness increases reward, neglect decreases reward.)

Matt 19:
27 Then Peter answered Him, saying, “Look, we have given up everything and followed You [becoming Your disciples and accepting You as Teacher and Lord]; what then will there be for us?”
(NOTE: Peter asks Jesus what do I get for my work done for you?)

28 Jesus said to them, “I assure you and most solemnly say to you, in the renewal [that is, the Messianic restoration and regeneration of all things] when the Son of Man sits on His glorious throne, you [who have followed Me, becoming My disciples] will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
(NOTE: Jesus didn't scold Peter or tell his the His grace was enough. Jesus said, you gave Much & your Reward will be Great! You'll sit on a throne & judge on my behalf)

29 And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother [d]or children or farms for My name’s sake will receive many times as much, and will inherit eternal life.
(NOTE: Jesus said, I pay based on merit & my return on investment is exponential to your input).

1 Cor 3:
8 Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.
(NOTE: Each believer receives a reward according to his own labor.)

11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
(NOTE: Gold & silver = Good works done in Christ's name. Hay, wood & stubble = no works, selfish works, even bad works)

13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
(NOTE: Every work good & bad will be tested)

14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
(NOTE: Good works done in Christ's name will receive a reward)

15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
(NOTE: Hay, wood & stubble deeds will burn-up bringing, shame & loss = """OF REWARDS""" not SALVATION)

Rereading verse 15: He "Will SUFFER LOSS", though he "HIMSELF WILL BE SAVED"

Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

Matt, Lk & 1 Cor posted all teach: After salvation (100% Christ's doing) good work done receives reward, negative works could result in losing a previously given reward. The exception of your salvation will never be lost. Christ never breaks His promises/covenants (Rom 11:29).

Christ's obedience purchased our salvation, our obedience proves our gratitude & determines our reward. Saved by His work & rewarded for ours.

 

[Ouch]

Acts 2:38 Parsed

The issue is what Scripture says the events meant & how God Himself changed the Holy Spirit' dispensational stewardship (Acts 2 salvation given after & Acts 10 before water)

Under the Old Covenant & during early Acts, Israel's remission framework was tied to covenant repentance & national guilt (Acts 2:36–38), but remission itself always came by blood, never by water (Lev 17:11; Heb 9:22; Matt 26:28). Water purified the flesh (Heb 9:10), but only blood removed sin. Lev 17:11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul. That is why your claim that water remits sins cannot stand.

2ndly, Acts 2 Peter is preaching to Israel alone - ""Men of Judea,"" ""all who dwell in Jerusalem,"" ""Men of Israel"" at a Jewish feast, in a Jewish city, fulfilling a Jewish prophecy, under Jewish COVENANT LAWS.

The Holy Spirit is given after repentance & water because Israel's covenant initiations were physical. Just as physical circumcision initiated the Old Covenant.

Gentiles were never under Israel's purification system, part of John's water baptism or the Mosaic covenant (Eph 2:12). Ten years after Pentecost God turns to the Gentiles in Acts 10, He does not repeat the Acts 2 order - He reverses it. The Holy Spirit/SALVATION falls on Cornelius' household while Peter is still preaching (Acts 10:44)

The Holy Spirit is Gods Gift of Eternal Life. You can't change recorded scripture:

Mark 1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.
(NOTE: He shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost. Also see Mat 3:11, Lk 3:16 & Jn 1:33)

2 Tim 1:14 Refers to the Holy Spirit as a Good Deposit.

2 Cor 5:5, Eph 1:14 & 2 Cor 1:22. Refer to the Holy Spirit as "the earnest" = Deposit or Pledge.

Eph 1:13, 2 Cor 1:22 & Eph 4:30 Refer to the Holy Spirit as a Seal.

2 Tim 1:14 The Holy Spirit who dwells within us, guard the good deposit entrusted to you
(NOTE: The Holy Spirit dwelling within us. Is God's good deposit given us until the day of redemption)

2 Cor 5:5 God, who also hath given unto us the "earnest" of the Spirit
(NOTE: God's Holy Spirit dwelling within us is the earnest. Earnest translated from the Greek word: arrabon. Also means a deposit/pledge. In modern Greek arrabona is an "engagement ring.")

2 Cor 1:22 Who hath also "sealed us" & "given the earnest" of the Holy Spirit in our hearts
(NOTE: God has placed His Holy Spirit in the believers heart. As a DEPOSIT/PLEDGE & SEAL, until the soon coming day of our final redemption)

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
(NOTE: You heard about Christ's finished sin redemptive payment & resurrection. When you believed/trusted, Christ sealed/baptized you with His Holy Spirit).

Eph1:14 Which is the "earnest" of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession
(NOTE: The Holy Spirit by which only Christ baptizes/seals & indwells us. Is God's earnest = a down payment/pledge)

Eph 4:30 grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are "sealed" unto the day of redemption
(NOTE: Believers are SEALED with God's Holy Spirit. Christ's pledge/promise that he will come for us)

GENTILES RECEIVE GODS ETERNAL LIFE GIVING HOLY SPIRIT - BEFORE WATER! - Peter explains the process:

Acts 10:
45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
(NOTE: Vs44, Gentiles RECEIVE Gods Eternal Life Gift-the Holy Spirit - BEFORE WATER!. Vs47, Gentiles HAVE received Gods Eternal Life Gift-the Holy Spirit. - BEFORE WATER!)

Acts 11: Peter says
16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.
(NOTE: Vs16, Jesus alone baptizes with/in/by His Eternal Giving Holy Spirit. Vs18, GOD GAVE the Gentiles the same Salvation SEALING-Eph 1:13-14, 4:30, 2 Cor 1:22, 5:5, 2 Tim 1:14-FOREVER INDWELLING (Jn 14:16)- REPENTANCE GRANTING Holy Spirit- SAVED-SEALED-FORGIVEN-BY FAITH ALONE-BEFORE WATER!)

That is the dispensational shift - from a Jewish, water-mediated reception of the Holy Spirit in Acts 2 to a universal, faith-based Spirit baptism in Acts 10.

This is exactly how Gentiles become the fulfillment of God's promise to Abraham that he would be the father of many nations (Gen 17:5; Gal 3:8, 14). Not through rituals, but through faith.

Peter preached Jesus death & resurrection in Acts 2 & Acts 10. Same gospel message Paul preached (1 Cor 15:1-4 & Rom 10:9-10). But God changes the Holy Spirit administration from "repent from breaking covenant & be water baptized to receive the Holy Sprit.

Gentiles were never under any Mosaic covenants (Eph 2:12) During Peters message God changes the previous Holy Spirit' administering from repent, be water baptized & receive the Holy Spirit to ""hear, believe, receive the H/S, then be water baptized.""

GOD didn't change anything except how we get reborn today v/s OT. NT rebirth started when JESUS ascended the second time and will stay the same way until HE returns.

 

[FlyingDove]

The Oneness Holy Grail

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
(NOTE: Israel's necessary salvation formula: Repent, be baptized, ""in the name of Jesus Christ > for the remission of sins"" & you will receive the Holy Spirit.)

They repeatedly claim this formula is the universal salvation. Even though Acts 2, is framed entirely inside Israel's covenant world. Peter's audience ""Men of Judea & all who dwell in Jerusalem"" ""Vs14, Men of Israel Vs22"" define the scope.

We have a Jewish mandatory attend feast, in a Jewish city, fulfilling a Jewish prophecy, under Jewish covenant laws. The commands Peter gives, repent, be baptized & receive the Holy Spirit, are delivered to Israel only, the chosen nation under the Mosaic covenant. NOT ONE gentile is among the 3,000 saved at Pentecost (Acts 10:45 proves it) & NOT ONE GENTILE HAS EVER been saved by this Acts 2:38 formula.

If a salvation pattern is truly universal, it must work for all people, in all places, under all conditions. Acts 2 does not!

Acts 10 salvation formula works for all people, in all places, under all under the same circumstance/UNIVERSAL!

Acts 10:44 Based on their FAITH ALONE Jesus knows the heart of man (Matt 9:4, Jn 6:64,Acts 1:24, Rev 2:23) & baptizes these gentiles with His salvation sealing (Eph 1:13-14, 4:30, 2 Cor 1:22, 5:5) Holy Spirit-without circumcision & without water. (Only Jesus Holy Spirit‑baptizes Matt 3:11; Acts 1:5).

Hear > Believe > Receive > receive the Holy Spirit formula/sequence becomes the NT UNIVERSAL-Jew & Gentile initiation into the now newly formed Body of Christ.

1 Cor 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
(NOTE: For by the Holy Spirit are we ALL baptized into one body > whether Jew or Gentile)

Col 2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision "made without hands", in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
(NOTE: The NT circumcision of Christ, "made without hands." is the inward, SPIRITUAL work of the Holy Spirit)

Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
(NOTE: A circumcision of the heart, in the spirit & NOT of the LAW)

The risen Jesus chooses Paul as His vessel to carry His name to Gentiles, kings, and Israel (Acts 9:15). Jerusalem pillars affirm that Paul will go to the Gentiles while they go to the circumcision (Gal 2:9), Paul preaches the risen Christ & justification by faith apart from the Law (Acts 13:30–31, 38–39). Paul declares that the one God justifies both Jew & Gentile by faith (Rom 3:29–30). The Risen Lord sent him to open their eyes so they may receive forgiveness of sins & be sanctified by faith in Him (Acts 26:16–18).

 

[Ouch]

The Oneness Holy Grail

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
(NOTE: Israel's necessary salvation formula: Repent, be baptized, ""in the name of Jesus Christ > for the remission of sins"" & you will receive the Holy Spirit.)

They repeatedly claim this formula is the universal salvation. Even though Acts 2, is framed entirely inside Israel's covenant world. Peter's audience ""Men of Judea & all who dwell in Jerusalem"" ""Vs14, Men of Israel Vs22"" define the scope.

We have a Jewish mandatory attend feast, in a Jewish city, fulfilling a Jewish prophecy, under Jewish covenant laws. The commands Peter gives, repent, be baptized & receive the Holy Spirit, are delivered to Israel only, the chosen nation under the Mosaic covenant. NOT ONE gentile is among the 3,000 saved at Pentecost (Acts 10:45 proves it) & NOT ONE GENTILE HAS EVER been saved by this Acts 2:38 formula.

If a salvation pattern is truly universal, it must work for all people, in all places, under all conditions. Acts 2 does not!

Acts 10 salvation formula works for all people, in all places, under all under the same circumstance/UNIVERSAL!

Acts 10:44 Based on their FAITH ALONE Jesus knows the heart of man (Matt 9:4, Jn 6:64,Acts 1:24, Rev 2:23) & baptizes these gentiles with His salvation sealing (Eph 1:13-14, 4:30, 2 Cor 1:22, 5:5) Holy Spirit-without circumcision & without water. (Only Jesus Holy Spirit‑baptizes Matt 3:11; Acts 1:5).

Hear > Believe > Receive > receive the Holy Spirit formula/sequence becomes the NT UNIVERSAL-Jew & Gentile initiation into the now newly formed Body of Christ.

1 Cor 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
(NOTE: For by the Holy Spirit are we ALL baptized into one body > whether Jew or Gentile)

Col 2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision "made without hands", in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
(NOTE: The NT circumcision of Christ, "made without hands." is the inward, SPIRITUAL work of the Holy Spirit)

Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
(NOTE: A circumcision of the heart, in the spirit & NOT of the LAW)

The risen Jesus chooses Paul as His vessel to carry His name to Gentiles, kings, and Israel (Acts 9:15). Jerusalem pillars affirm that Paul will go to the Gentiles while they go to the circumcision (Gal 2:9), Paul preaches the risen Christ & justification by faith apart from the Law (Acts 13:30–31, 38–39). Paul declares that the one God justifies both Jew & Gentile by faith (Rom 3:29–30). The Risen Lord sent him to open their eyes so they may receive forgiveness of sins & be sanctified by faith in Him (Acts 26:16–18).

Has JESUS filled you with HIS spirit?
Have you gotten rid of YOUR SINS?

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

CAN'T ENTER WITH SIN OR WITHOUT IT!!!

 

[FlyingDove]

NO WATER BAPTISM FOUND IN THE TEXT
Jn 3:
1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, ""a ruler of the Jews"":

2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou does't, except God be with him.
(NOTE: Nicodemus, a Pharisee, a ruler of the Jews, trained expert in the Law. Approaches Jesus privately, acknowledging His divine authority.)

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
(NOTE: "Born again" refers to a spiritual birth, not physical water or ritual baptism. Jesus is introducing a category Nicodemus has no understanding of.)

4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
(NOTE: Nicodemus a teacher of Israel, has no concept of spiritual rebirth. He's thinking strictly in PHYSICAL terms.)

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
(NOTE: Verse 6 defines the contrast "Water" corresponds to FLESHLY/PHYSICIAL birth & "SPIRIT" corresponds to SPIRITUAL BIRTH.)

Jesus is not introducing water baptism. Jesus is distinguishing TWO BIRTHS!

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
(NOTE - Here is the key: FLESH = PHYSICIAL BIRTH (the natural birth that begins in the womb, surrounded by amniotic fluid/WATER).

SPIRIT = SPIRITUAL BIRTH (the new birth only Jesus can give through His Holy Spirit baptism (Matt 3:11; Luke 3:16; Mark 1:8; John 1:33).

Jesus is explaining that PHYSICIAL BIRTH alone is not enough. One must be born physically & then born SPIRITUALLY.

 

[Ouch]

NO WATER BAPTISM FOUND IN THE TEXT
Jn 3:
1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, ""a ruler of the Jews"":

2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou does't, except God be with him.
(NOTE: Nicodemus, a Pharisee, a ruler of the Jews, trained expert in the Law. Approaches Jesus privately, acknowledging His divine authority.)

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
(NOTE: "Born again" refers to a spiritual birth, not physical water or ritual baptism. Jesus is introducing a category Nicodemus has no understanding of.)

4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
(NOTE: Nicodemus a teacher of Israel, has no concept of spiritual rebirth. He's thinking strictly in PHYSICAL terms.)

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
(NOTE: Verse 6 defines the contrast "Water" corresponds to FLESHLY/PHYSICIAL birth & "SPIRIT" corresponds to SPIRITUAL BIRTH.)

Jesus is not introducing water baptism. Jesus is distinguishing TWO BIRTHS!

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
(NOTE - Here is the key: FLESH = PHYSICIAL BIRTH (the natural birth that begins in the womb, surrounded by amniotic fluid/WATER).

SPIRIT = SPIRITUAL BIRTH (the new birth only Jesus can give through His Holy Spirit baptism (Matt 3:11; Luke 3:16; Mark 1:8; John 1:33).

Jesus is explaining that PHYSICIAL BIRTH alone is not enough. One must be born physically & then born SPIRITUALLY.

JESUS is refering to water baptizm since that is the only way we get rid of our sins.

You know just like in Acts 2,8,10 and 19.

Both water baptism and JESUS filled them with the Holy Ghost.

YOUR CLAIMING WHICH IS NOT TRUE!!!

That the JESUS when speaking natural birth DO YOU THINK JESUS IS STUPID??? HE KNOWS NICODUMUS HAS BEEN BORN ALREADY.

Natural birth is what gave us our sins!!

NEED BOTH TO BE REBORN!!! BOTH!!!

DID YOU NOTICE THE WORD "REBORN"?????

 

[FlyingDove]

NO WATER BAPTISM FOUND IN THE TEXT
Jn 3:
1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, ""a ruler of the Jews"":

2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou does't, except God be with him.
(NOTE: Nicodemus, a Pharisee, a ruler of the Jews, trained expert in the Law. Approaches Jesus privately, acknowledging His divine authority.)

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
(NOTE: "Born again" refers to a spiritual birth, not physical water or ritual baptism. Jesus is introducing a category Nicodemus has no understanding of.)

4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
(NOTE: Nicodemus a teacher of Israel, has no concept of spiritual rebirth. He's thinking strictly in PHYSICAL terms.)

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
(NOTE: Verse 6 defines the contrast "Water" corresponds to FLESHLY/PHYSICIAL birth & "SPIRIT" corresponds to SPIRITUAL BIRTH.)

Jesus is not introducing water baptism. Jesus is distinguishing TWO BIRTHS!

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
(NOTE - Here is the key: FLESH = PHYSICIAL BIRTH (the natural birth that begins in the womb, surrounded by amniotic fluid/WATER).

SPIRIT = SPIRITUAL BIRTH (the new birth only Jesus can give through His Holy Spirit baptism (Matt 3:11; Luke 3:16; Mark 1:8; John 1:33).

Jesus is explaining that PHYSICIAL BIRTH alone is not enough. One must be born physically & then born SPIRITUALLY.

 

[Ouch]

NO WATER BAPTISM FOUND IN THE TEXT
Jn 3:
1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, ""a ruler of the Jews"":

2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou does't, except God be with him.
(NOTE: Nicodemus, a Pharisee, a ruler of the Jews, trained expert in the Law. Approaches Jesus privately, acknowledging His divine authority.)

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
(NOTE: "Born again" refers to a spiritual birth, not physical water or ritual baptism. Jesus is introducing a category Nicodemus has no understanding of.)

4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
(NOTE: Nicodemus a teacher of Israel, has no concept of spiritual rebirth. He's thinking strictly in PHYSICAL terms.)

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
(NOTE: Verse 6 defines the contrast "Water" corresponds to FLESHLY/PHYSICIAL birth & "SPIRIT" corresponds to SPIRITUAL BIRTH.)

Jesus is not introducing water baptism. Jesus is distinguishing TWO BIRTHS!

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
(NOTE - Here is the key: FLESH = PHYSICIAL BIRTH (the natural birth that begins in the womb, surrounded by amniotic fluid/WATER).

SPIRIT = SPIRITUAL BIRTH (the new birth only Jesus can give through His Holy Spirit baptism (Matt 3:11; Luke 3:16; Mark 1:8; John 1:33).

Jesus is explaining that PHYSICIAL BIRTH alone is not enough. One must be born physically & then born SPIRITUALLY.

Did you ever notice John who introduced water baptism and his propose in life?

Sin will not enter Heaven PEROID!

Did you ever hear of JESUS talking about natural birth?

So HE did for the first and last time in John 3:5???

Why did Peter COMMAND them to be baptized in Acts 10 if they were natural born?

 

[FlyingDove]

NO WATER BAPTISM FOUND IN THE TEXT
John 3:1 (KJV): “a ruler of the Jews” Nicodemus wasn't confused about Jewish water purification rituals. He was confused about re-entering the womb (Jn 3:4).

"""""""""Jn 3:5 This it is spoken before the cross, before Pentecost, before the Church & before Christian baptism even existed."""""""

Jesus immediately defines His own terms: Verse 6, that which is ""born of the flesh is flesh"" & that which is ""born of the Spirit is spirit"" (Jn 3:6). The contrast is natural birth vs. Spirit birth, not water baptism vs. Spirit baptism. Jesus clarifies by distinguishing physical birth Vs6 (a fetus is surrounded by water/amniotic fluid) from spiritual birth (regeneration by the Holy Spirit).

Jesus is not introducing water baptism. Jesus is distinguishing TWO BIRTHS!

 

[Ouch]

NO WATER BAPTISM FOUND IN THE TEXT
John 3:1 (KJV): “a ruler of the Jews” Nicodemus wasn't confused about Jewish water purification rituals. He was confused about re-entering the womb (Jn 3:4).

"""""""""Jn 3:5 This it is spoken before the cross, before Pentecost, before the Church & before Christian baptism even existed."""""""

Jesus immediately defines His own terms: Verse 6, that which is ""born of the flesh is flesh"" & that which is ""born of the Spirit is spirit"" (Jn 3:6). The contrast is natural birth vs. Spirit birth, not water baptism vs. Spirit baptism. Jesus clarifies by distinguishing physical birth Vs6 (a fetus is surrounded by water/amniotic fluid) from spiritual birth (regeneration by the Holy Spirit).

Jesus is not introducing water baptism. Jesus is distinguishing TWO BIRTHS!

Really no reason for you to explain what HIS word says, let JESUS talk for HIMSELF.

Yes JESUS is refering two births, natural the other spiritual!!

When we are born we are born in sin!!!

JESUS is talking about being REBORN!!!

Why do you think JESUS is talking about our natural birth when HE says water?????

DO YOU THINK HE'S STUPID, IF YOUR READING HIS WORD YOU HAVE TO BE BORN NATURALY!!! HELLO!!!

He is very clear in verse 6 there is a difference between natural and spiritly rebirth.

Why would HE talk about natural IF YOU WERE NOT BORN NATURALY YOU WOULD NEVER BE ABLE TO BE ""REBORN""

Can you share scipture to prove JESUS is talking about natural birth???

PLEASE, PLEASE!!

Look at this evidence HIS word which proves it's to remove our sins!!

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

If we can get past how we get rid of our sin we can move on to the other component of being reborn, the Holy Ghost

NEED BOTH TO ENTER!!

 

[FlyingDove]

The Oneness Holy Grail

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
(NOTE: Israel's necessary salvation formula: Repent, be baptized, ""in the name of Jesus Christ > for the remission of sins"" & you will receive the Holy Spirit.)

They repeatedly claim this formula is the universal salvation. Even though Acts 2, is framed entirely inside Israel's covenant world. Peter's audience ""Men of Judea & all who dwell in Jerusalem"" ""Vs14, Men of Israel Vs22"" define the scope.

We have a Jewish mandatory attend feast, in a Jewish city, fulfilling a Jewish prophecy, under Jewish covenant laws. The commands Peter gives, repent, be baptized & receive the Holy Spirit, are delivered to Israel only, the chosen nation under the Mosaic covenant. NOT ONE gentile is among the 3,000 saved at Pentecost (Acts 10:45 proves it) & NOT ONE GENTILE HAS EVER been saved by this Acts 2:38 formula.

If a salvation pattern is truly universal, it must work for all people, in all places, under all conditions. Acts 2 does not!

Acts 10 salvation formula works for all people, in all places, under all under the same circumstance/UNIVERSAL!

Acts 10:44 Based on their FAITH ALONE Jesus knows the heart of man (Matt 9:4, Jn 6:64,Acts 1:24, Rev 2:23) & baptizes these gentiles with His salvation sealing (Eph 1:13-14, 4:30, 2 Cor 1:22, 5:5) Holy Spirit-without circumcision & without water. (Only Jesus Holy Spirit‑baptizes Matt 3:11; Acts 1:5). NO WATER NEEDED!

Hear > Believe > Receive > receive the Holy Spirit formula/sequence becomes the NT UNIVERSAL-Jew & Gentile initiation into the now newly formed Body of Christ. NO WATER NEEDED!

1 Cor 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
(NOTE: For by the Holy Spirit are we ALL baptized into one body > whether Jew or Gentile) NO WATER NEEDED!

Col 2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision "made without hands", in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
(NOTE: The NT circumcision of Christ, "made without hands." is the inward, SPIRITUAL work of the Holy Spirit) NO WATER NEEDED!

Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
(NOTE: A circumcision of the heart, in the spirit & NOT of the LAW)

The risen Jesus chooses Paul as His vessel to carry His name to Gentiles, kings, and Israel (Acts 9:15). Jerusalem pillars affirm that Paul will go to the Gentiles while they go to the circumcision (Gal 2:9), Paul preaches the risen Christ & justification by faith apart from the Law (Acts 13:30–31, 38–39). Paul declares that the one God justifies both Jew & Gentile by faith (Rom 3:29–30). The Risen Lord sent him to open their eyes so they may receive forgiveness of sins & be sanctified by faith in Him (Acts 26:16–18).