Then why mention works at all. Faith alone saves. If you have faith your saved. Period. Works are a choice. If they aren't then we arent arguing out of love.
No living faith without works
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No one claimed works make salvation happen. You just can't pay attention.
You also suggested I said works earn salvation. Youre still not listening. You see the word "works" and your brain goes into for memorization mode.
For the one millionth time works complete faith just like James said. No where does Scripture say faith alone ...oh wait it does but before that it says we are justified by works AND not.....keep ignoring it or explaining it away.
That's right...believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved.
But...we are created in Christ Jesus unto good works.
We are made a new creation, then we do the works a new creation would do.
Easy peasy.
So we have no choice. A saved person can only do good works. God saves us to makes us robots. So you arent acting out of love you're functionjng as a Christian.
You specifically said that works make faith salvific, did you not?
I didnt say that scripture did. A dead faith can't be salvific can it? And James said faith is completed by works and we agree faith is salvific therefore works make faith salvific because faith absent works is dead.
No scripture says that nowhere which you acknowledged by saying you came to that conclusion by deduction after saying you don’t interpret scripture.
Of course it does. You don't want it to. Deduction is not interpreting. Nice try though
What do you believe James 2:22 means since that’s the only verse in the bible you seem to like?
It's not the only verse in the Bible i like but if it is, then its the only verse in the Bible you dont like.
What the words tell me is faith and works are active together and that his (Abraham) faith was brought to completion by works. That's what the words mean. That's not interpretation. This is where deduction comes in again it's not interpretation. Faith was brought to completion which would tell us faith by itself can't be complete otherwise why say works brought faith to completion? How can something that is already complete be brought to completion? Why can't I take James at his word.othrr than you do like it because you believe the faith alone business.
Not what I said. We can walk in the Spirit or walk in the flesh. Being saved doesn't lessen choice; it expands it.
Think of it like this. Suppose you were born a cat. You would be able to do cat things. Now suppose someone made you into a dog in addition to being a cat. Now you could both cat and dog things.
In effect, when we become a partaker of the divine nature, we simply become able to do both human and divine things.
But you do see how gaining an additional nature would expand choice and not limit it?
You keep repeating this line. Where is it in Scripture?
You continually harp on the idea that faith alone does not save. You continually misrepresent the perspective of your opponents, implying (or perhaps directly asserting) that it is our belief that a person can come to faith, live the rest of their lives without ever doing any "works", and be saved.
That is not my belief (and I suspect nobody else holds it either) except in the case of the rare individual who is mentally or physically incapable of "works" (invalid, mentally incapacitated beyond basic belief, etc.).
You don't believe that salvation is a point-in-time event (you have stated this) but you also have not articulated your belief, so I will ask you directly:
Please describe the process of salvation as you understand it. At what point in the process is a person actually "saved" as you understand it?
If faith must be completed by works in order to be complete, when exactly does a person become saved, before that completion or only after it?
In 1 John 2:12 we are told-I am writing to you, little children, because your sins are forgiven for his name's sake.
He does not say that your sins are forgiven because of belief, faith, or anything which may be found in them. But, for his name's sake. In other words, not for anything you have done, but because of what he has done for you.
This ties back to what was said about Christ prior to his birth.
Matt 1:20-21 – But as he considered these things, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, “Joseph, son of David, do not fear to take Mary as your wife, for that which is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit. She will bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus, for he will save [his people] from their sins.”
Christ is our savior, we provide nothing!
Any works from us which are pleasing to the Lord, are but the fruit of salvation given to us, not the cause!
AI -"Jesus Christ" combines a personal name with a title, signifying
“Jesus the Anointed One" or "Jesus the Messiah." Jesus (from Hebrew Yeshua) means "Yahweh saves," while Christ (from Greek Christos) denotes the chosen redeemer prophesied in the Hebrew Bible. It is not a last name, but a title highlighting his role as the Savior.
He does not say that your sins are forgiven because of belief, faith, or anything which may be found in them. But, for his name's sake. In other words, not for anything you have done, but because of what he has done for you.
This ties back to what was said about Christ prior to his birth.
Matt 1:20-21 – But as he considered these things, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, “Joseph, son of David, do not fear to take Mary as your wife, for that which is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit. She will bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus, for he will save [his people] from their sins.”
Christ is our savior, we provide nothing!
Any works from us which are pleasing to the Lord, are but the fruit of salvation given to us, not the cause!
AI -"Jesus Christ" combines a personal name with a title, signifying
“Jesus the Anointed One" or "Jesus the Messiah." Jesus (from Hebrew Yeshua) means "Yahweh saves," while Christ (from Greek Christos) denotes the chosen redeemer prophesied in the Hebrew Bible. It is not a last name, but a title highlighting his role as the Savior.
Wow.
I've never seen such misuse of scripture !
You've actually posted verses that support the OP and NOT what you apparently believe.
Oops.
There goes one of those silly questions I was discussing with you on a different thread.
WHY are you asking HOW MANY WORKS must be done?
Are you afraid you haven't done enough?
Are you afraid you've done too many?
Too funny!
Didn't Jesus say the Holy Spirit would bring all to mind??
So why are you saying it's the opposite of being led by the Holy Spirit??
John 14:26
26“But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you.
You have a really creepy idea of what works is.
I wonder if this is blaspheming the Holy Spirit since you do seem to be making fun of the good works that Jesus said we must do or be removed from the vine.
John 15:2
2“Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He [God] takes away;