Yes, We're Supposed to Strive to Be Like Jesus. But Do You Still Look to Other Human Beings for Inspiration?

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seoulsearch

OutWrite Trouble
May 23, 2009
20,085
9,844
113
Hey Everyone,

I haven't been posting due to 1. bouts of depression, as regulars know is an ongoing personal battle of mine; 2. having a cycle of needing more intake (reading, studying, listening to life stories) than writing; and 3. a deep sadness for the things I see others go through.

It's always helped me is to have people to look up to in different areas of life (faith, finance, fitness, etc.) whom I can learn from and see as a mentor.

I have recently learned that someone I saw as a mentor has been tangled up in a heartbreaking situation in which their very long-term spouse (something like 25 years) cheated on them. They are trying to work things out according to Biblical principles and church supervision.

I feel especially sorrowful because this is the 3rd time in my life someone I saw as a mentor was caught up in, or hurt by a case of gut-wrenching sexual sin. And the feelings I have aren't judgment or disappointment in the person. It's more like, these are people who eat, breathe, sleep, and (in some cases) make a living by the Word of God.

But this did not shelter them from falls, losses, or very bad choices, all while knowing better than anyone what the consequences would be.

My sorrow is NOT a matter of, "How dare they?!", but rather, "If they couldn't make it without falling/becoming a victim to such devastation... How could I ever hope to?"

And people will always say, "Well DUH!!! That's why you look to JESUS as your example, NOT another human being!" Now, I can want to be like Jesus in an area like finances -- but how many people actually achieve this without someone to teach them how, and live out examples of what responsible finance works in real life?

Of course I know we are supposed to look to Jesus above anyone else. But the thing is, we're all human, and we all look to humans to relate to. If you told your child to look to Jesus and not you as an example or inspiration, would it be enough to keep the on the right track? And so, we all look to someone as a guide for how to get through this wretched passage in a cursed world.

I was marinated in Bible study, community, and culture literally from the time my parents got me at 6 months old. And I say this not as some sort of clout or excuse, but because my whole life, the answers I've been given have always been passages, passages, and more passages. And that's not enough, because once you get those passages down, you need to study the whole Bible -- and that's just the start. After that, it's relly best to study the whole Bible in its ORIGINAL languages so you can TRULY understand what the Bible REALLY says.

So because I have heard nothing but Christian-ese all my life, I am dying to be around people who share how they personally apply it. This is why I'm not comforted by being given 50 more passages about marriage, adultery, divorce, sexual sin, and fleeing temptation, or any other life issue I'm facing or seeing others go through.

Going back to the example of finances -- how much is just hearing all the Bible passages about money really helping people with their finances? They need actual living human examples (both successful and not, to see the contrast) to know how to actually live it out.

Similarly, I want to hear the stories of the people who have faced life issues in the myriad of ways they affect people -- and how they are going on or have survived, and how they are now helping others through it. I need people I can look up to, because they've faced the very things (and not just adultery, but every area of life)that we all know that all the prayer and Bible study in this life does not fully shelter us from.

I have often asked God who I can look up. Do I look up to the people hell bent on doing nothing but correcting others by quoting every possible Bible passage that applies, in all the original languages and texts? Then arguing down to the last letter about why their perspective is the "true" interpretation? Surely these devout scholars of the Word, so insistent on correcting all the dumb sheep like myself, are the ones who, if the FBI did a sweep of their computers and electronic devices, not a speck of questionable material would be found (or deleted.) Surely their search history could be put up on the being screen at church.

And I'm not criticizing people who think like this for sinning -- rather, I am very apprehensive of anyone who sets themselves up as divine teachers/prophets/shepherds but never speak of, or admits their own sins.

Should I look for a mentor among the pious women I grew up with in church, who, while setting up for the next church function they volunteered for, spoke in hushed shock about the single mother of a little girl I attended grade school with? After all, it was whispered that this woman "had a revolving door on the side of their house for men"?

I was just a kid when I heard the ladies talking about this. We drove past this family's house every day for school, and I never once saw a revolving door. They were a rather newfangled thing at the time, as not many local places had them -- and I couldn't understand what all the fuss was about, because as a kid, I thought a literal revolving door on your house would be cool.

Whether it was true or not, I look back as an adult and feel immense sorrow over the mean-spirited things that were said about this woman, as she was the only single mother in my class.

And so, my continual search for those I can relate to, and learn from, goes on. What about you?

* Who do, or who have, you looked up to in your life? Parents, teachers, mentors, people who were there for you when no one else was?

* Have they ever done something that disappointed you or let you down, to the point where you weren't sure if you could look up to them anymore?

* Did you look for someone else to look up to, or did it ensure that you look to no one else but Jesus?

* How have you responded, or how would you respond, if/when people told you it was your own fault for looking up to a mere human being and not Jesus in the first place? (How would you convince your kids to stop looking up to you if this is to be taken literally?)

For my own self, I don't stop looking up to someone just because they've committed a "really bad sin" that gets made public. Many people sin the same way, whether in thought, word, or deed -- they just don't get caught, or have their sins publicly displayed.

Sometimes I wind up admiring them even more for the way they walk through it. I have always been drawn to people who are open about the fact that they sin in the first place rather than the ones who preach behind iron fortresses without a hint of vulnerability.

To me, that isn't human -- it's the original form of being a Robot with Artificial (appearance of) Intelligence -- and personally I need Real Humans to relate to.

But that's just me.

How about you?
 
There is nothing wrong with having human role models - people you can trust, look up to as a mentor, get advice from, etc. - just be careful to do your best to pick some good ones - who are in a good position to help you - want to help you - and, care about you enough to always deal with you honestly.
 
Hey Everyone,

I haven't been posting due to 1. bouts of depression, as regulars know is an ongoing personal battle of mine; 2. having a cycle of needing more intake (reading, studying, listening to life stories) than writing; and 3. a deep sadness for the things I see others go through.

It's always helped me is to have people to look up to in different areas of life (faith, finance, fitness, etc.) whom I can learn from and see as a mentor.

I have recently learned that someone I saw as a mentor has been tangled up in a heartbreaking situation in which their very long-term spouse (something like 25 years) cheated on them. They are trying to work things out according to Biblical principles and church supervision.

I feel especially sorrowful because this is the 3rd time in my life someone I saw as a mentor was caught up in, or hurt by a case of gut-wrenching sexual sin. And the feelings I have aren't judgment or disappointment in the person. It's more like, these are people who eat, breathe, sleep, and (in some cases) make a living by the Word of God.

But this did not shelter them from falls, losses, or very bad choices, all while knowing better than anyone what the consequences would be.

My sorrow is NOT a matter of, "How dare they?!", but rather, "If they couldn't make it without falling/becoming a victim to such devastation... How could I ever hope to?"

And people will always say, "Well DUH!!! That's why you look to JESUS as your example, NOT another human being!" Now, I can want to be like Jesus in an area like finances -- but how many people actually achieve this without someone to teach them how, and live out examples of what responsible finance works in real life?

Of course I know we are supposed to look to Jesus above anyone else. But the thing is, we're all human, and we all look to humans to relate to. If you told your child to look to Jesus and not you as an example or inspiration, would it be enough to keep the on the right track? And so, we all look to someone as a guide for how to get through this wretched passage in a cursed world.

I was marinated in Bible study, community, and culture literally from the time my parents got me at 6 months old. And I say this not as some sort of clout or excuse, but because my whole life, the answers I've been given have always been passages, passages, and more passages. And that's not enough, because once you get those passages down, you need to study the whole Bible -- and that's just the start. After that, it's relly best to study the whole Bible in its ORIGINAL languages so you can TRULY understand what the Bible REALLY says.

So because I have heard nothing but Christian-ese all my life, I am dying to be around people who share how they personally apply it. This is why I'm not comforted by being given 50 more passages about marriage, adultery, divorce, sexual sin, and fleeing temptation, or any other life issue I'm facing or seeing others go through.

Going back to the example of finances -- how much is just hearing all the Bible passages about money really helping people with their finances? They need actual living human examples (both successful and not, to see the contrast) to know how to actually live it out.

Similarly, I want to hear the stories of the people who have faced life issues in the myriad of ways they affect people -- and how they are going on or have survived, and how they are now helping others through it. I need people I can look up to, because they've faced the very things (and not just adultery, but every area of life)that we all know that all the prayer and Bible study in this life does not fully shelter us from.

I have often asked God who I can look up. Do I look up to the people hell bent on doing nothing but correcting others by quoting every possible Bible passage that applies, in all the original languages and texts? Then arguing down to the last letter about why their perspective is the "true" interpretation? Surely these devout scholars of the Word, so insistent on correcting all the dumb sheep like myself, are the ones who, if the FBI did a sweep of their computers and electronic devices, not a speck of questionable material would be found (or deleted.) Surely their search history could be put up on the being screen at church.

And I'm not criticizing people who think like this for sinning -- rather, I am very apprehensive of anyone who sets themselves up as divine teachers/prophets/shepherds but never speak of, or admits their own sins.

Should I look for a mentor among the pious women I grew up with in church, who, while setting up for the next church function they volunteered for, spoke in hushed shock about the single mother of a little girl I attended grade school with? After all, it was whispered that this woman "had a revolving door on the side of their house for men"?

I was just a kid when I heard the ladies talking about this. We drove past this family's house every day for school, and I never once saw a revolving door. They were a rather newfangled thing at the time, as not many local places had them -- and I couldn't understand what all the fuss was about, because as a kid, I thought a literal revolving door on your house would be cool.

Whether it was true or not, I look back as an adult and feel immense sorrow over the mean-spirited things that were said about this woman, as she was the only single mother in my class.

And so, my continual search for those I can relate to, and learn from, goes on. What about you?

* Who do, or who have, you looked up to in your life? Parents, teachers, mentors, people who were there for you when no one else was?

* Have they ever done something that disappointed you or let you down, to the point where you weren't sure if you could look up to them anymore?

* Did you look for someone else to look up to, or did it ensure that you look to no one else but Jesus?

* How have you responded, or how would you respond, if/when people told you it was your own fault for looking up to a mere human being and not Jesus in the first place? (How would you convince your kids to stop looking up to you if this is to be taken literally?)

For my own self, I don't stop looking up to someone just because they've committed a "really bad sin" that gets made public. Many people sin the same way, whether in thought, word, or deed -- they just don't get caught, or have their sins publicly displayed.

Sometimes I wind up admiring them even more for the way they walk through it. I have always been drawn to people who are open about the fact that they sin in the first place rather than the ones who preach behind iron fortresses without a hint of vulnerability.

To me, that isn't human -- it's the original form of being a Robot with Artificial (appearance of) Intelligence -- and personally I need Real Humans to relate to.

But that's just me.

How about you?
Oh gosh , I've never looked for a human mentor ever . I think that no human is better than me and I'm no better than anyone , I truly believe this . From a very young age I saw just how horrible people can b and I still c it all day every day . Humans suck . They / we , really do . Just look to Jesus and to God . They r the ones that love u the most and , their love for u is totally pure . U can't get better mentors than your God and your Saviour ❤️ .
 
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Oh gosh , I've never looked for a human mentor ever . I think that no human is better than me and I'm no better than anyone , I truly believe this . From a very young age I saw just how horrible people can b and I still c it all day every day . Humans suck . They / we , really do . Just look to Jesus and to God . They r the ones that love u the most and , their love for u is totally pure . U can't get better mentors than your God and your Saviour ❤️ .

Hi Suze,

I really appreciate your kind heart in all of your posts.

I do think it can be important to look for human mentors. From what I've observed growing up in the church, people aren't doing very well with just being told, "Just read the Bible and follow Jesus."

In a perfect world, that's all we would need. But in this fallen world, I have asked God what it is we're missing somewhere between "Jesus is all you need," and the vast statistics of failures due to people not actually being able to figure out how to be like Jesus.

I have to go back to the example in the original post about finances. People can be told all the verses about money, tithing, talents, good stewardship all day long. They can commit them to memory and pray 'til the cows come home.

But how many have actually been able to apply it and are in healthy financial situations? Now of course, there can be many factors to this (as in every area of life,) but I have family members whose ministry was free financial counseling for several decades. And when they realized that some people couldn't afford to pay something like $25 for the class materials, they just started producing them all on their own and handing them out for free.

Yet, this wasn't enough. My family members said that in their experience, only about 3 in every 100 people they talked to (and there were thousands over the years, all over the USA) were willing to make the changes and sacrifices needed to better their situation (learning the difference between wants vs. needs; cutting out non-essentials and learning to do things for less; prioritizing paying off debt, etc.)

And of the people who were willing to put in genuine effort, they all needed someone to teach them, step-by-step. No one had ever taught them how to budget, balance a checkbook, or pay more than just the bare minimums required. Biblical principles are the ultimate foundation, but someone has to teach a person how to construct the shelter that comes next.

Someone might know all the verses and have all the motivation in the world, but without others to give real life lessons of how to do it -- all the Bible study in the world won't make any difference.

I personally believe that's part of what's missing regarding the vast failure between knowledge vs. application of Scripture -- we need people who are doing what we want to do and are willing to show us how. I truly believe that part of looking to God is also looking for people He sends us to show us the practical means to the ends we're all striving for.

But... It could also just be me -- I've always been a slow learner, and have always needed real-life instruction. :)
 
There is nothing wrong with having human role models - people you can trust, look up to as a mentor, get advice from, etc. - just be careful to do your best to pick some good ones - who are in a good position to help you - want to help you - and, care about you enough to always deal with you honestly.


I've found (for myself at least,) that one of the hallmarks of having a strong personality is that I tend to attract others with strong personalities, too. So if we clash over something (especially about my own life,) it is going to be an epic battle. I've had some friends I told to take long walks off short piers, but for some reason, they didn't give up on me.

The people I am closest to have no qualms about picking apart my ideas if they sense I'm being too unreasonable (even more so than usual!) or if I've ventured too far over into unknown pastures.

I went through a time in my life where I was receiving a lot of criticism/"correction" and I asked God whom I should listen to, and whom I shouldn't.

I believe God told me, "If someone has shown they are willing to bleed WITH you, those are the ones you can trust." And there are times when God sends me directly to those very people -- for the purpose of correction.

But no matter what my friends tell me ("I'm not going to tell you what you want to hear, but I WILL tell you what you need to hear,") I always remember the times they stood by me, even when it felt like my world was burning down, and it always reminds me that they have given me very good reasons to listen.
 
Oh gosh , I've never looked for a human mentor ever . I think that no human is better than me and I'm no better than anyone , I truly believe this . From a very young age I saw just how horrible people can b and I still c it all day every day . Humans suck . They / we , really do . Just look to Jesus and to God . They r the ones that love u the most and , their love for u is totally pure . U can't get better mentors than your God and your Saviour ❤️ .
Some people need a mentor. I was one. A pastor I respected more than anyone prayed for me to get a mentor. I said nothing but said in myself, no way. He was right and I was wrong. Fast forward around 7 years and I was in deep trouble spiritually. God led me to a man who would become my mentor for the next 30 years. He helped me through my marriage break up and when I did not see my kids for 15 years. I did not learn exclusively from him, but for sure he was the greatest influence in my life.

Paul mentored Timothy and likely Titus (Titus chapter 2). Moses mentored Joshua. Elijah mentored Elisha.

It's not a matter of being better. It's a matter of God's calling on your life. We learn so that we can help the body of Christ. It's not a one man band.

"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of compassion and the God of all comfort, 4who comforts us in all our troubles, so that we can comfort those in any trouble with the comfort we ourselves have received from God. 5For just as the sufferings of Christ overflow to us, so also through Christ our comfort overflows." (2 Corinthians 1:3)

I was about the most independent person you could imagine. I started school at the age of four. My mother took me there the first day. The next day, i told her I knew the way so I'd go by myself. Independence is rooted in pride. God had to break my independence so that I could learn to depend on Him.

I agree that people are horrible. However, Jesus is not. He is perfect in every way and He lives in those who are born again. No, we don't trust the person. We should trust the Lord Jesus in that person.
 
Some people need a mentor. I was one. A pastor I respected more than anyone prayed for me to get a mentor. I said nothing but said in myself, no way. He was right and I was wrong. Fast forward around 7 years and I was in deep trouble spiritually. God led me to a man who would become my mentor for the next 30 years. He helped me through my marriage break up and when I did not see my kids for 15 years. I did not learn exclusively from him, but for sure he was the greatest influence in my life.

Paul mentored Timothy and likely Titus (Titus chapter 2). Moses mentored Joshua. Elijah mentored Elisha.

It's not a matter of being better. It's a matter of God's calling on your life. We learn so that we can help the body of Christ. It's not a one man band.

"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of compassion and the God of all comfort, 4who comforts us in all our troubles, so that we can comfort those in any trouble with the comfort we ourselves have received from God. 5For just as the sufferings of Christ overflow to us, so also through Christ our comfort overflows." (2 Corinthians 1:3)

I was about the most independent person you could imagine. I started school at the age of four. My mother took me there the first day. The next day, i told her I knew the way so I'd go by myself. Independence is rooted in pride. God had to break my independence so that I could learn to depend on Him.

I agree that people are horrible. However, Jesus is not. He is perfect in every way and He lives in those who are born again. No, we don't trust the person. We should trust the Lord Jesus in that person.

I understand independent people -- I claim to be one, at least most of the time.

But those I admire most are the independent people who know their weaknesses, because we all have them, and are willing to ask for help and/or, as you said here, seek a mentor. I applaud your seeing the value of mentorship.

I have not had good experiences with, nor do I trust, lone wolves, whether men or women. Some mean well, but what I've found is that they tend to think they're somehow special (in that, they understand God better than anyone else, and must correct everyone else because of this.)

They don't submit to authority, because they feel that no one else knows THE TRUTH as much as they do. They don't have anyone to reign them in when they start to go off the rails -- which I personally believe everyone does sometimes, especially when they are isolated from others, whether on purpose or not. And if you have any kind of dispute with them, you can't go to anyone else to moderate or intervene, because they will proclaim that every other "spiritual leader" is "corrupted," and therefore, has no authority over them.

It's like being stuck in an abusive relationship that cuts you off from any other source of support except them -- and they will try to spiritually manipulate and gaslight you if you try to go to anyone for help. They want to lead everyone else, but they will not accept leadership themselves.

Everyone I've ever seen as a mentor has others that they had to answer to, which is something I look for when looking up to anyone.

But, this is just my own experience, and I do realize it might be different for others.
 
Some people need a mentor. I was one. A pastor I respected more than anyone prayed for me to get a mentor. I said nothing but said in myself, no way. He was right and I was wrong. Fast forward around 7 years and I was in deep trouble spiritually. God led me to a man who would become my mentor for the next 30 years. He helped me through my marriage break up and when I did not see my kids for 15 years. I did not learn exclusively from him, but for sure he was the greatest influence in my life.

Paul mentored Timothy and likely Titus (Titus chapter 2). Moses mentored Joshua. Elijah mentored Elisha.

It's not a matter of being better. It's a matter of God's calling on your life. We learn so that we can help the body of Christ. It's not a one man band.

"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of compassion and the God of all comfort, 4who comforts us in all our troubles, so that we can comfort those in any trouble with the comfort we ourselves have received from God. 5For just as the sufferings of Christ overflow to us, so also through Christ our comfort overflows." (2 Corinthians 1:3)

I was about the most independent person you could imagine. I started school at the age of four. My mother took me there the first day. The next day, i told her I knew the way so I'd go by myself. Independence is rooted in pride. God had to break my independence so that I could learn to depend on Him.

I agree that people are horrible. However, Jesus is not. He is perfect in every way and He lives in those who are born again. No, we don't trust the person. We should trust the Lord Jesus in that person.
So , we r not talking about ordinary people then ? We r talking about fellow Christians , I get it 👍 . That's ok but , I'm nervous because I don't want to put someone on a pedestal , we r all still human and made of sinful flesh . I don't want to expect too much of someone and then b disappointed in them when they turn out to b just like me 😜 I also do not want anyone putting me on a pedestal because I know for sure that I will disappoint 😞 . Jesus will never disappoint me and , when I do disappoint him , he's very gracious ❤️ .
 
Hi Suze,

I really appreciate your kind heart in all of your posts.

I do think it can be important to look for human mentors. From what I've observed growing up in the church, people aren't doing very well with just being told, "Just read the Bible and follow Jesus."

In a perfect world, that's all we would need. But in this fallen world, I have asked God what it is we're missing somewhere between "Jesus is all you need," and the vast statistics of failures due to people not actually being able to figure out how to be like Jesus.

I have to go back to the example in the original post about finances. People can be told all the verses about money, tithing, talents, good stewardship all day long. They can commit them to memory and pray 'til the cows come home.

But how many have actually been able to apply it and are in healthy financial situations? Now of course, there can be many factors to this (as in every area of life,) but I have family members whose ministry was free financial counseling for several decades. And when they realized that some people couldn't afford to pay something like $25 for the class materials, they just started producing them all on their own and handing them out for free.

Yet, this wasn't enough. My family members said that in their experience, only about 3 in every 100 people they talked to (and there were thousands over the years, all over the USA) were willing to make the changes and sacrifices needed to better their situation (learning the difference between wants vs. needs; cutting out non-essentials and learning to do things for less; prioritizing paying off debt, etc.)

And of the people who were willing to put in genuine effort, they all needed someone to teach them, step-by-step. No one had ever taught them how to budget, balance a checkbook, or pay more than just the bare minimums required. Biblical principles are the ultimate foundation, but someone has to teach a person how to construct the shelter that comes next.

Someone might know all the verses and have all the motivation in the world, but without others to give real life lessons of how to do it -- all the Bible study in the world won't make any difference.

I personally believe that's part of what's missing regarding the vast failure between knowledge vs. application of Scripture -- we need people who are doing what we want to do and are willing to show us how. I truly believe that part of looking to God is also looking for people He sends us to show us the practical means to the ends we're all striving for.

But... It could also just be me -- I've always been a slow learner, and have always needed real-life instruction.

Hi Suze,

I really appreciate your kind heart in all of your posts.

I do think it can be important to look for human mentors. From what I've observed growing up in the church, people aren't doing very well with just being told, "Just read the Bible and follow Jesus."

In a perfect world, that's all we would need. But in this fallen world, I have asked God what it is we're missing somewhere between "Jesus is all you need," and the vast statistics of failures due to people not actually being able to figure out how to be like Jesus.

I have to go back to the example in the original post about finances. People can be told all the verses about money, tithing, talents, good stewardship all day long. They can commit them to memory and pray 'til the cows come home.

But how many have actually been able to apply it and are in healthy financial situations? Now of course, there can be many factors to this (as in every area of life,) but I have family members whose ministry was free financial counseling for several decades. And when they realized that some people couldn't afford to pay something like $25 for the class materials, they just started producing them all on their own and handing them out for free.

Yet, this wasn't enough. My family members said that in their experience, only about 3 in every 100 people they talked to (and there were thousands over the years, all over the USA) were willing to make the changes and sacrifices needed to better their situation (learning the difference between wants vs. needs; cutting out non-essentials and learning to do things for less; prioritizing paying off debt, etc.)

And of the people who were willing to put in genuine effort, they all needed someone to teach them, step-by-step. No one had ever taught them how to budget, balance a checkbook, or pay more than just the bare minimums required. Biblical principles are the ultimate foundation, but someone has to teach a person how to construct the shelter that comes next.

Someone might know all the verses and have all the motivation in the world, but without others to give real life lessons of how to do it -- all the Bible study in the world won't make any difference.

I personally believe that's part of what's missing regarding the vast failure between knowledge vs. application of Scripture -- we need people who are doing what we want to do and are willing to show us how. I truly believe that part of looking to God is also looking for people He sends us to show us the practical means to the ends we're all striving for.

But... It could also just be me -- I've always been a slow learner, and have always needed real-life instruction. :)
I do apologize , my bad , I thought u were talking about spiritual mentors not so much practical ones . I guess I'm not much good at always understanding how people feel . All my life lessons I learned in life . I have never had a human being take enough of an interest in me to give me even one piece of advise or guidance , I'm not joking or looking for sympathy . I've made some enormously drastic and stupid mistakes in my life due to having to figure everthing out on my own but , I wouldn't change a thing . A hard lesson is a lesson learned . And , I now know , that I wasn't on my own for even one second . God was with me , preserving my life . Without Him I would b dead , in jail or in an institution for sure . I'm glad of all those hard lessons , they helped me and I'm glad God let me go through them , He knows how to bring us to Him , all we have to do is trust Him ❤️ . He deals with us as individuals and we have to respect His ways in dealing with us and also , in dealing with others . I used to b a bit jealous of people who had nice parents , who were brought up with religion , who had professional careers . Not any more . They couldn't have walked my path any more than I could walk theirs . God is always with us , personally , individually and we must learn to trust Him implicitly ❤️ .
 
Everybody got a blind spot.

Some people refuse to believe their spouses are cheating on them, to the point that it has become a trope. Some people have much wisdom, but also hate this or that group of people and their wisdom flies out the window where that group of people is concerned. Everybody I know has one area where they are not exactly sane.

There's this one guy that I respect more than most. He has a lot of wisdom about many things. But it shocked me when I mentioned this one convenience store and he said he never goes there any more since the "rag-heads" bought it. He just hates Pakistanis/Indians/etc.

Hmm? What's MY blind spot? Beats me. I have to believe I have one, but of course - by definition - I have never seen any actual proof that I do have one. Of course. :cool:

Proverbs says in a MULTITUDE of conselors there is safety. It even says it twice. Not just one advisor. Eventually you'll hit a problem that sits in his blind spot. You need to know a few wise people. And don't shut any of them down when you hit their blind spot and they fail. They're still wise enough to cover for the blind spots of other wise men.
 
Everybody got a blind spot.

Some people refuse to believe their spouses are cheating on them, to the point that it has become a trope. Some people have much wisdom, but also hate this or that group of people and their wisdom flies out the window where that group of people is concerned. Everybody I know has one area where they are not exactly sane.
This. I learn different things from different people. Jesus is perfect, but its sometimes hard to envision what Jesus' response would be, or what our response should be. Different people are good at different things, and no one is perfect, so while examples might be (very!) helpful, always remember that Christ is our ultimate example for everything.

A Samson might be good for learning how to fight - maybe pick someone else, though, for modelling ideal romantic relationships.
 
A Samson might be good for learning how to fight - maybe pick someone else, though, for modelling ideal romantic relationships.
I agree with you. Further to your comments (and not as a response to them)...

...the first thing to do would be to understand the four basic 'loves' and their definition. Today's 'love' is not the love that God has for us, neither the love that we should have for God.

When our concepts of love are straightened out, the upside down world begins to make a bit more sense and we're less likely to run into its arms and use their definitions in our walk with YHWH.

This short Bible study is a good start. I can recommend it - http://www.arlev.co.uk/loveofgod.htm
 
I do apologize , my bad , I thought u were talking about spiritual mentors not so much practical ones . I guess I'm not much good at always understanding how people feel . All my life lessons I learned in life . I have never had a human being take enough of an interest in me to give me even one piece of advise or guidance , I'm not joking or looking for sympathy . I've made some enormously drastic and stupid mistakes in my life due to having to figure everthing out on my own but , I wouldn't change a thing . A hard lesson is a lesson learned . And , I now know , that I wasn't on my own for even one second . God was with me , preserving my life . Without Him I would b dead , in jail or in an institution for sure . I'm glad of all those hard lessons , they helped me and I'm glad God let me go through them , He knows how to bring us to Him , all we have to do is trust Him ❤️ . He deals with us as individuals and we have to respect His ways in dealing with us and also , in dealing with others . I used to b a bit jealous of people who had nice parents , who were brought up with religion , who had professional careers . Not any more . They couldn't have walked my path any more than I could walk theirs . God is always with us , personally , individually and we must learn to trust Him implicitly ❤️ .

Oh no Suze, no need to apologize -- you're understanding the points of this thread perfectly. :)

I understand that some people don't have the opportunity, or might not be comfortable with the idea of a mentor, and that's fine too. And when I say mentor, I don't specifically always mean people that personally took me under their wing. Some I admire and looked up to as a role model from a distance. I also agree with you regarding not putting anyone on a pedestal. I've been guilty of that several times and predictably, it did not end well.

I am genuinely sorry for the things you have suffered in your life. 🙏🏼 You seem like such a sweet and caring person, and the things you share on the site are exactly what I look for. When you talk about how you're handling things with your mum, you are teaching people like me how to live out grace, forgiveness, and unconditional love.

I often think the Christian community sabotages itself by being overly spiritual. I go back to the financial example because it's one everyone understands. Christians will tell you God wants to bless you and have peace over your finances, but then can't or won't give anyone a plausible roadmap of how to do this. And if you talk about money woes too long, they'll say you're being materialistic and not relying on God, or accuse you of building up earthly riches rather than heavenly ones.

And I see this in every area of life. I was once in a chat where a young teen was excited about a missions trip he'd just come back from, and was telling us all about it. A woman in her 40's severely chastised the poor kid, telling him he shouldn't be talking about it at all because of "When you do a good deed, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing." (Matthew 6:3)

I know what her intention was, but I am the opposite -- I want to hear about the work others are doing for the kingdom because it informs me of possibilities I might not know about and that God might be calling me to. This young man wasn't coming across as boasting at all -- he was just very passionate about what he had seen God do. I wanted to tell this teen that some of us wanted to hear his stories could all go to another chat room, but this woman had already shot him down so much that he left, and I never saw him back again.

When I speak of mentors, I think of people we look up to in order to show us how things are done. When I came to CC, I was miserable in my single life. And I knew a lot of other miserable singles as well. I didn't really know any other way. But here on CC, I met other singles who were, gasp, HAPPY and content living out their single lives, and I looked to them to teach me how to do the same. I just didn't know how to live that way until I met others who were already doing so, and willing to share their journey.

I think it's like that in most every area of life. Our spiritual beliefs are the backbone of the how to live, so I don't see a division between spiritual and practical. The spiritual guides us in how we are to live out the practical.

This is why I'm always interested in people's life stories. I've been preached at to death all my life -- I want to know how people actually live out what they're preaching.

People can give me all the passages about a certain challenge I'm puzzling over -- but unless they're also willing to give me practical examples to follow from their own lives or observations (so I know they have real experience,) it just doesn't have the full impact of Word + Actions ("Teach me how to do what you're doing.")
 
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So , we r not talking about ordinary people then ? We r talking about fellow Christians , I get it 👍 . That's ok but , I'm nervous because I don't want to put someone on a pedestal , we r all still human and made of sinful flesh . I don't want to expect too much of someone and then b disappointed in them when they turn out to b just like me 😜 I also do not want anyone putting me on a pedestal because I know for sure that I will disappoint 😞 . Jesus will never disappoint me and , when I do disappoint him , he's very gracious ❤️ .
Again, I'm saying to trust the man. Or woman for that matter. let me give you an example.

Watchman Nee was one of the most influential men in global Christianity. He was an apostle in the trues sense of the world. He founded at least 800 churches in China. His books are still widely available and they have been a great help to many, including me.

He testified as to how God taught him to rely on the body as well as his own relationship with Jesus. He had a problem in that a prayer had no been answered and he was not getting the help he needed. God told him that he should go to a brother he knew who would pray him and God would answer. Mr Nee was not happy. He considered the brother spiritually lacking and not qualified to pray for him. But Mr Nee got no help, so he gave in and asked the brother to pray for him. God answered immediately.

As I said before, independence is not a good thing. What God asks us for is to trust Him with our lives. It is much harder to trust God to help us through the brethren. Yet God wants to bless both us and the one who helps us.

How does that work? We are a body, not independent limbs. Read 1 Corinthians 12. And this is what Ephesians 4 has to say:

"And it was He who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers, to equip the saints for works of ministry and to build up the body of Christ........"

This is God's way. I did not like it either. I learned the hard way that I had to have a change of heart about the issue.

Now I am not so independent. I teach God's word, but not from a formal theological point of view. I also counsel some people. My wife has gifts that I do not. She and I are a team. One young man we know told me that a few years ago, we had saved his Christian life from ruin. He was headed in a bad direction. A week or so ago, my wife sensed he was not going so well. I did not see it. She simply asked him how his Christian life was going. He confessed that he had slacked off in prayer and study. He's back on track.

No one else in the church noticed, or if they did, they said nothing. Neither my wife nor I are officially part of the ministry team. That's irrelevant. People are getting helped, that's all that matters.

One of the last vestiges of Roman Catholic influence on the real church is the pyramid structure that remains. Too many pastors are control freaks and too many of their congregations are spectators, not participants. No one hands out prizes to spectators. It's no wonder pastors burn out. They are expected to carry a load that God does not put on them. Even Moses was advised to get some help with dealing with the Israelites.

Again, we do not put our trust in man. Some of the meanest and nastiest people I've met were pastors, mostly Pentecostal. I've also met men who devoted their lives in love and care for the brethren and the lost. If you are willing, God will lead you to someone that you can trust. And you will keep in mind that they cannot live your Christian life for you, they can only help you in your walk. You will also realise that they are not to be worshiped or treated as infallible.
 
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Hey Everyone,

I haven't been posting due to 1. bouts of depression, as regulars know is an ongoing personal battle of mine; 2. having a cycle of needing more intake (reading, studying, listening to life stories) than writing; and 3. a deep sadness for the things I see others go through.

It's always helped me is to have people to look up to in different areas of life (faith, finance, fitness, etc.) whom I can learn from and see as a mentor.

I have recently learned that someone I saw as a mentor has been tangled up in a heartbreaking situation in which their very long-term spouse (something like 25 years) cheated on them. They are trying to work things out according to Biblical principles and church supervision.

I feel especially sorrowful because this is the 3rd time in my life someone I saw as a mentor was caught up in, or hurt by a case of gut-wrenching sexual sin. And the feelings I have aren't judgment or disappointment in the person. It's more like, these are people who eat, breathe, sleep, and (in some cases) make a living by the Word of God.

But this did not shelter them from falls, losses, or very bad choices, all while knowing better than anyone what the consequences would be.

My sorrow is NOT a matter of, "How dare they?!", but rather, "If they couldn't make it without falling/becoming a victim to such devastation... How could I ever hope to?"

And people will always say, "Well DUH!!! That's why you look to JESUS as your example, NOT another human being!" Now, I can want to be like Jesus in an area like finances -- but how many people actually achieve this without someone to teach them how, and live out examples of what responsible finance works in real life?

Of course I know we are supposed to look to Jesus above anyone else. But the thing is, we're all human, and we all look to humans to relate to. If you told your child to look to Jesus and not you as an example or inspiration, would it be enough to keep the on the right track? And so, we all look to someone as a guide for how to get through this wretched passage in a cursed world.

I was marinated in Bible study, community, and culture literally from the time my parents got me at 6 months old. And I say this not as some sort of clout or excuse, but because my whole life, the answers I've been given have always been passages, passages, and more passages. And that's not enough, because once you get those passages down, you need to study the whole Bible -- and that's just the start. After that, it's relly best to study the whole Bible in its ORIGINAL languages so you can TRULY understand what the Bible REALLY says.

So because I have heard nothing but Christian-ese all my life, I am dying to be around people who share how they personally apply it. This is why I'm not comforted by being given 50 more passages about marriage, adultery, divorce, sexual sin, and fleeing temptation, or any other life issue I'm facing or seeing others go through.

Going back to the example of finances -- how much is just hearing all the Bible passages about money really helping people with their finances? They need actual living human examples (both successful and not, to see the contrast) to know how to actually live it out.

Similarly, I want to hear the stories of the people who have faced life issues in the myriad of ways they affect people -- and how they are going on or have survived, and how they are now helping others through it. I need people I can look up to, because they've faced the very things (and not just adultery, but every area of life)that we all know that all the prayer and Bible study in this life does not fully shelter us from.

I have often asked God who I can look up. Do I look up to the people hell bent on doing nothing but correcting others by quoting every possible Bible passage that applies, in all the original languages and texts? Then arguing down to the last letter about why their perspective is the "true" interpretation? Surely these devout scholars of the Word, so insistent on correcting all the dumb sheep like myself, are the ones who, if the FBI did a sweep of their computers and electronic devices, not a speck of questionable material would be found (or deleted.) Surely their search history could be put up on the being screen at church.

And I'm not criticizing people who think like this for sinning -- rather, I am very apprehensive of anyone who sets themselves up as divine teachers/prophets/shepherds but never speak of, or admits their own sins.

Should I look for a mentor among the pious women I grew up with in church, who, while setting up for the next church function they volunteered for, spoke in hushed shock about the single mother of a little girl I attended grade school with? After all, it was whispered that this woman "had a revolving door on the side of their house for men"?

I was just a kid when I heard the ladies talking about this. We drove past this family's house every day for school, and I never once saw a revolving door. They were a rather newfangled thing at the time, as not many local places had them -- and I couldn't understand what all the fuss was about, because as a kid, I thought a literal revolving door on your house would be cool.

Whether it was true or not, I look back as an adult and feel immense sorrow over the mean-spirited things that were said about this woman, as she was the only single mother in my class.

And so, my continual search for those I can relate to, and learn from, goes on. What about you?

* Who do, or who have, you looked up to in your life? Parents, teachers, mentors, people who were there for you when no one else was?

* Have they ever done something that disappointed you or let you down, to the point where you weren't sure if you could look up to them anymore?

* Did you look for someone else to look up to, or did it ensure that you look to no one else but Jesus?

* How have you responded, or how would you respond, if/when people told you it was your own fault for looking up to a mere human being and not Jesus in the first place? (How would you convince your kids to stop looking up to you if this is to be taken literally?)

For my own self, I don't stop looking up to someone just because they've committed a "really bad sin" that gets made public. Many people sin the same way, whether in thought, word, or deed -- they just don't get caught, or have their sins publicly displayed.

Sometimes I wind up admiring them even more for the way they walk through it. I have always been drawn to people who are open about the fact that they sin in the first place rather than the ones who preach behind iron fortresses without a hint of vulnerability.

To me, that isn't human -- it's the original form of being a Robot with Artificial (appearance of) Intelligence -- and personally I need Real Humans to relate to.

But that's just me.

How about you?


I got saved at 17 and God from the very beginning told me not to look to anyone but Him.

I balked at this at first for a good number of years, but i was always disappointed at my human mentors eventually.

So i started looking only to God as my mentor and I honestly was no longer disappointed.

It doesn't mean I've cut myself off from everybody though. I still enjoy sociallizing. It also means I don't feel let down by other people, because my heart is with God rather than with them.

All of us indivudually are made for God. That's our main purpose for existing. So focus on God. Let Him be your mentor. The Holy Spirit will make the Bible come alive and also set up situations in your life to illustrate what God has inspired in His word.

He will also comfort like no one else can. I've done some really terrible things and God made sure I learned not to do them again. But there are times when i remember them and I feel terrible about them all over again. That's when I feel God reminding that I've learned my lessons, that He's forgiven me and comfort me.

So I know what it feels like to get depressed. Also to testify to God being able to help me out of depression and really know His comforting and uplifting love for me.

I really want you to experience that from God because I know God loves you more than anyone else can. That means He can comfort you more than anyone else too and help you through the bouts of depression.


🕊
 
Hey Everyone,

I haven't been posting due to 1. bouts of depression, as regulars know is an ongoing personal battle of mine; 2. having a cycle of needing more intake (reading, studying, listening to life stories) than writing; and 3. a deep sadness for the things I see others go through.

It's always helped me is to have people to look up to in different areas of life (faith, finance, fitness, etc.) whom I can learn from and see as a mentor.

I have recently learned that someone I saw as a mentor has been tangled up in a heartbreaking situation in which their very long-term spouse (something like 25 years) cheated on them. They are trying to work things out according to Biblical principles and church supervision.

I feel especially sorrowful because this is the 3rd time in my life someone I saw as a mentor was caught up in, or hurt by a case of gut-wrenching sexual sin. And the feelings I have aren't judgment or disappointment in the person. It's more like, these are people who eat, breathe, sleep, and (in some cases) make a living by the Word of God.

But this did not shelter them from falls, losses, or very bad choices, all while knowing better than anyone what the consequences would be.

My sorrow is NOT a matter of, "How dare they?!", but rather, "If they couldn't make it without falling/becoming a victim to such devastation... How could I ever hope to?"

It jumped out at me in your first [paragraph. I know the answer. But can I put it into words?!

You have a cycle of needing more intake. (reading, studying, listening to Testimonies...May I suggest that you add to that list, spending more time with Jesus all alone, just you and Him. This always helps me. Not that you don't just that you need more as you said. Intimate one on one time with Jesus will give you what you need (this doesn't cancel your list but adds to it only.) You see, don't worry about how could you ever rise to meet such challenges because Jesus does not call the Equipped, He Equips those He calls.

Try wading out a little further!
 
It jumped out at me in your first [paragraph. I know the answer. But can I put it into words?!

You have a cycle of needing more intake. (reading, studying, listening to Testimonies...May I suggest that you add to that list, spending more time with Jesus all alone, just you and Him. This always helps me. Not that you don't just that you need more as you said. Intimate one on one time with Jesus will give you what you need (this doesn't cancel your list but adds to it only.) You see, don't worry about how could you ever rise to meet such challenges because Jesus does not call the Equipped, He Equips those He calls.

Try wading out a little further!

I appreciate your thoughts, Edward.

I have to say though, I'm always... slightly discouraged when other Christians suggest these things as if we haven't thought of them ourselves or aren't doing them already. I know you're trying to help though and I do appreciate it.

My "intake" time IS my alone time with God. I read, study, and listen -- and the entire time, I'm taking notes, going back and re-reading, pondering and praying, and asking God what He's wanting me to understand. When I say I need more, I mean that I need to gather more of about the world around me and what God's saying to me through it, which is why I haven't been posting polls about cheese or musing over new ways to build better man traps in the Singles Forum. :)

Along with daily devotionals, church services (these days it's been two on Sundays,) and a daily prayer time God taught me to set to a necessary part of my routine that I can't skip.

Without going into too much detail, I've been in a situation where it's just me, Jesus, and my own thoughts nearly 24/7 for a good 20 years+, so I definitely get plenty of "alone" time with Him.

95%+ of my life is spent alone with only God to hear.

The only way I can get "closer to Jesus" and "spend more alone time with Him" is if I were to die, and most days, to be honest, with everything going on in the world, that always sounds like the better option.
 
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I got saved at 17 and God from the very beginning told me not to look to anyone but Him.

I balked at this at first for a good number of years, but i was always disappointed at my human mentors eventually.

So i started looking only to God as my mentor and I honestly was no longer disappointed.

It doesn't mean I've cut myself off from everybody though. I still enjoy sociallizing. It also means I don't feel let down by other people, because my heart is with God rather than with them.

All of us indivudually are made for God. That's our main purpose for existing. So focus on God. Let Him be your mentor. The Holy Spirit will make the Bible come alive and also set up situations in your life to illustrate what God has inspired in His word.

He will also comfort like no one else can. I've done some really terrible things and God made sure I learned not to do them again. But there are times when i remember them and I feel terrible about them all over again. That's when I feel God reminding that I've learned my lessons, that He's forgiven me and comfort me.

So I know what it feels like to get depressed. Also to testify to God being able to help me out of depression and really know His comforting and uplifting love for me.

I really want you to experience that from God because I know God loves you more than anyone else can. That means He can comfort you more than anyone else too and help you through the bouts of depression.


🕊

I understand what you're saying but I guess that's why they call it a personal walk with God.

Some things that other people highly praise and promote as their part of their spiritual lives and experiences are things I just don't relate to, or have never experienced -- and I'm sure that others can't relate to many of the things I write in my posts, either.

As far as letting God alone be my mentor, I'm just built to need human examples. To me, it's like people who can learn just from books -- I can't. I need an actual living teacher or I can't absorb the information. In school, I always needed to go to class -- I couldn't just read the books, because the teacher's expressions, movements, expressions, and real-life stories helped me remember what I was learning.

I have never been able to teach myself through just books or instructions. YouTube was a game-changer for me because there were so many things I didn't understand that I could see being taught by others who had been through what they were teaching.

I can't say that I have ever really experienced God's comfort in a way that others describe it. I often feel like an alien in the Christian world because I hear people talking about a lot of things that for whatever reason, do not work for me or are not my experience. And when I try to explain this, people always try their best to "correct" me -- to make more like them. They don't understand the concept that I guess I'm built differently, so I give up even trying to explain. This has been my experience since childhood.

I always feel that God more or less tells me to to just get on with and get over whatever is bothering me and quit complaining, etc., so that's what I always try my best to do.

Writing these threads is a part of that process.
 
I appreciate your thoughts, Edward.

I have to say though, I'm always... slightly discouraged when other Christians suggest these things as if we haven't thought of them ourselves or aren't doing them already. I know you're trying to help though and I do appreciate it.

My "intake" time IS my alone time with God. I read, study, and listen -- and the entire time, I'm taking notes, going back and re-reading, pondering and praying, and asking God what He's wanting me to understand. When I say I need more, I mean that I need to gather more of about the world around me and what God's saying to me through it, which is why I haven't been posting polls about cheese or musing over new ways to build better man traps in the Singles Forum. :)

Along with daily devotionals, church services (these days it's been two on Sundays,) and a daily prayer time God taught me to set to a necessary part of my routine that I can't skip.

Without going into too much detail, I've been in a situation where it's just me, Jesus, and my own thoughts nearly 24/7 for a good 20 years+, so I definitely get plenty of "alone" time with Him.

95%+ of my life is spent alone with only God to hear.

The only way I can get "closer to Jesus" and "spend more alone time with Him" is if I were to die, and most days, to be honest, with everything going on in the world, that always sounds like the better option.

Ok. I just noticed it wasnt on the list so went from there.
 
I understand what you're saying but I guess that's why they call it a personal walk with God.

Some things that other people highly praise and promote as their part of their spiritual lives and experiences are things I just don't relate to, or have never experienced -- and I'm sure that others can't relate to many of the things I write in my posts, either.

As far as letting God alone be my mentor, I'm just built to need human examples. To me, it's like people who can learn just from books -- I can't. I need an actual living teacher or I can't absorb the information. In school, I always needed to go to class -- I couldn't just read the books, because the teacher's expressions, movements, expressions, and real-life stories helped me remember what I was learning.

I have never been able to teach myself through just books or instructions. YouTube was a game-changer for me because there were so many things I didn't understand that I could see being taught by others who had been through what they were teaching.

I can't say that I have ever really experienced God's comfort in a way that others describe it. I often feel like an alien in the Christian world because I hear people talking about a lot of things that for whatever reason, do not work for me or are not my experience. And when I try to explain this, people always try their best to "correct" me -- to make more like them. They don't understand the concept that I guess I'm built differently, so I give up even trying to explain. This has been my experience since childhood.

I always feel that God more or less tells me to to just get on with and get over whatever is bothering me and quit complaining, etc., so that's what I always try my best to do.

Writing these threads is a part of that process.


God does use human examples in my life, but now, I find that they no longer have to be my mentors. God will just put them in my life, set up His example, i learn from their example, and we all move on, everyone still friends without the disappointment.

It's s terrible that you feel God just wants you to get over stuff as if you pain doesn't matter. I'm glad you brought that up. God doesn't have that attitude AT ALL about what you go through inside your heart.

I don't know how to fix that, but from the very beginning of my walk with God, He always wanted to be first in my life, To be what matters most to me, my very best friend foever. And He wants to be that most important person to you and everyone else, to be your very best friend forever.

When i got saved. One of my godliest friends gave me this book. God had ne take notice of her godliness so I did look up to her. (Click on the title for more information about the book.)

Friendship with God

052161_43d706f2e515412481c674ce2ce6d1a7.jpg

I read it all the way through! It set my attitude about my walk with God from that time on based on His love for me and His desire to have a walk with Him that's based on friendship. ( His Lordship turns out to be important too. I learned this the hard way, unfortunately. )

I never felt God tell me to get over things. He always wanted me to share everything i went through in my heart and that we would fix things together.

This is what I believe He wants for you too. You're not to get over thing yourself! You're to bring everything to Him because He wants to help you work everything out with Him as your very best friend.

So I'll pray for you! If you would like a digital copy of the book, let me
know.


🕊
 
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