The Ten Commandments are the Covenant, did you know?

[pinebeach]

Look at Saul in the OT.

He choose to disobey God. He choose to sin.

1Sa 28:6 And when Saul enquired of the LORD, the LORD answered him not, neither by dreams, nor by Urim, nor by prophets.

Sin, his chooses, seperated him from God.

When we sin we are seperated from God

God does not leave us or forsake us. We leave God, we forsake Him by sinning.

He will often seek us out and if we repent He will restore peace in us.

Can we have Guilt and peace at the same time? No
We can't have sin and the presence of God at the same time.

Isa 59:2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.

1Jn 1:9 KJV If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Isa 48:22 There is no peace, saith the LORD, unto the wicked.
Isa 57:21 There is no peace, saith my God, to the wicked.

Peace comes from God and iniquity drives God away.

He wants to be near us but our sin seperates us.

Repent and turn from your sins.

I'm sure you have felt the Holy Spirit talk to your Heart.
If you keep ignoring God and harden your heart you can not hear Him anymore.

Using Saul, once a king of Israel and not Saul who became Paul, is a very poor example. Do you use a prophet for direction or do you understand that we are no longer under the long shadow of the law and having to sacrifice animals because we sin.

Ephesians 1:7 - In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace,

1 John 1:9 - If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

*Sigh*

Miss the point much?

When it comes to criticizing Christians for worshiping on Sunday, you have no argument.

Even if we were under the Law (which we are not), we are not violating the fourth commandment by worshiping on Sunday.

Its a misunderstanding what under the law means- it doesn't mean people who profess Christ can vain His name or break any of God's commandments. Sunday worship is not a sin, we should worship God every day, but Jesus related worship to obedience to the commandments of God which includes the 4th commandment. Man says forget God said Remember- it goes back to which voice governs us.

 

[Dino246]

Its a misunderstanding what under the law means- it doesn't mean people who profess Christ can vain His name or break any of God's commandments. Sunday worship is not a sin, we should worship God every day, but Jesus related worship to obedience to the commandments of God which includes the 4th commandment. Man says forget God said Remember- it goes back to which voice governs us.

Again, you have no argument. You have no biblical basis on which to criticize worshiping God on Sunday.

 

[Rob7]

This is tiresome. You keep corrupting words in a ridiculous effort to refute my position.

Obedience IS NOT MENTIONED in the definition of faith. Does that imply IN ANY WAY that disobedience somehow is? Don't be dense!

Dino ! You and I have already discussed the relationship of Faith to Obedience ( therefore "disobedience") did you not realize anything?
.... or are you as King Ahab ...a "troubler of Israel ?" 1 Kings 18:17 (literally)
But then ... 1 Corinthians 2:14, states:

"The natural man does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God. For they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned." ( "natural man" = without H.S. inspiration :: therefore disobedient ) ... yup ! Tis YOU

 

[Rob7]

You have your knickers in a twist over nothing.

Tell that to God ! He finds it a matter of Salvation .. Life or Death !
Revelation 14:12
Fear God and give Him Glory !
Come out of Babylon,
to NOT take the MOTB.. and BURN

 

[Dino246]

Dino ! You and I have already discussed the relationship of Faith to Obedience ( therefore "disobedience") did you not realize anything?
.... or are you as King Ahab ...a "troubler of Israel ?" 1 Kings 18:17 (literally)
But then ... 1 Corinthians 2:14, states:

While you manage to avoid slandering me this time, you have failed to acknowledge that obedience and faith are not the same thing.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

Again, you have no argument. You have no biblical basis on which to criticize worshiping God on Sunday.

Did you read what was said:

Sunday worship is not a sin, we should worship God every day, but Jesus related worship to obedience to the commandments of God which includes the 4th commandment. Man says forget God said Remember- it goes back to which voice governs us.

What is a sin according to God is breaking His commandments 1John3:4 James2:10-12 Mat5:19-30

Its less about the day and more about loyalty and the voice one is submitting themselves to, since God said all days are for work and labors Exo20:9 except one and asked us to keep the seventh day, the Sabbath day holy Exo20:8-11

 

[Dino246]

Did you read what was said:



What is a sin according to God is breaking His commandments 1John3:4 James2:10-12 Mat5:19-30

Its less about the day and more about loyalty and the voice one is submitting themselves to, since God said all days are for work and labors Exo20:9 except one and asked us to keep the seventh day, the Sabbath day holy Exo20:8-11

You're still missing the point.

If it's "less about a day" then stop arguing anything about a day.

If it's "more about loyalty" then address the issue of loyalty, and explain how you think worshiping God (differently than you apparently do) is disloyal.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

You're still missing the point.

If it's "less about a day" then stop arguing anything about a day.

If it's "more about loyalty" then address the issue of loyalty, and explain how you think worshiping God (differently than you apparently do) is disloyal.

Because its about loyalty to God because He made it about the day, The seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD Exo20:10 The Sabbath is the Holy day of the LORD Isa58:13 meaning there is no other. There is no commandment to keep the first day holy, but there is to keep the Sabbath day holy, written by God Himself- God will never lead us down the wrong path- trust Him.

So its a matter of loyalty and who we are serving. Isa56:6. The Bible teaches whoever we obey is who we serve. Rom6:16 The Catholic church says if you keep Sunday you are obeying a commandment of the Catholic church (over God's) the change from Sabbath to Sunday is a mark of their authority (over God's). Why one can't find any Scripture to support Sunday as a day of rest or weekly worship in the entire Bible because its a man-made commandment changed just as it was predicted Dan7:25. So if one feels the CC can save them keep Sunday, if our loyalty it to God and we want to serve Him Isa56:6 keep the Sabbath.

I guess we shall will find out soon enough in God's time at His soon return.

 

[Rob7]

While you manage to avoid slandering me this time, you have failed to acknowledge that obedience and faith are not the same thing.

Obedience leads to Faith, & Faith leads to obedience.. it's a Love relationship between man & God.
( which is why you don't understand it )

Faith is the Root of Obedience ...​

Obedience is Evidence of Faith ...​

Relationally, obedience and faith are the same thing because both express love, trust, and dependence on God. Faith without obedience is incomplete, and obedience without faith is empty ritual. Together, they reflect a living, trusting relationship with God, where the heart is aligned with His will, empowered by the Holy Spirit.

 

[Dino246]

Because its about loyalty to God because He made it about the day, The seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD Exo20:10 The Sabbath is the Holy day of the LORD Isa58:13 meaning there is no other. There is no commandment to keep the first day holy, but there is to keep the Sabbath day holy, written by God Himself- God will never lead us down the wrong path- trust Him.

So its a matter of loyalty and who we are serving. Isa56:6. The Bible teaches whoever we obey is who we serve. Rom6:16 The Catholic church says if you keep Sunday you are obeying a commandment of the Catholic church (over God's) the change from Sabbath to Sunday is a mark of their authority (over God's). Why one can't find any Scripture to support Sunday as a day of rest or weekly worship in the entire Bible because its a man-made commandment changed just as it was predicted Dan7:25. So if one feels the CC can save them keep Sunday, if our loyalty it to God and we want to serve Him Isa56:6 keep the Sabbath.

I guess we shall will find out soon enough in God's time at His soon return.

Still missing the point.

Where does God say that worshiping on the first day of the week is disloyal? Oh... He doesn't.

What you (and most Sabbatarians) fails to understand is that worshiping on the first day of the week is not a problem according to God. Do you have a problem with people who attend their local church on Wednesday evening? Probably not.

You rail about Sunday worship, but rarely if ever ask if anyone against whom you rail "remember(s) the Sabbath, and keeps it holy" which is the actual commandment. There is nothing in the text about worshiping on a particular day.

 

[Dino246]

Obedience leads to Faith, & Faith leads to obedience.. it's a Love relationship between man & God.
( which is why you don't understand it )

Faith is the Root of Obedience ...​

Obedience is Evidence of Faith ...​

Relationally, obedience and faith are the same thing because both express love, trust, and dependence on God. Faith without obedience is incomplete, and obedience without faith is empty ritual. Together, they reflect a living, trusting relationship with God, where the heart is aligned with His will, empowered by the Holy Spirit.

The first part of your post is sound, and I was almost about to post a "Like"... then I read "Relationally...". That's where you went off the rails.

They simply are not the same thing. We are saved by faith, not by obedience. Obedience is indeed evidence for faith, just as a dead body is evidence for a murder, but a dead body is not a murder, and a murder is not a dead body. They are related; if we don't stop right there, we fall into error.

 

[Rob7]

You might even sing songs about it all the time.

We absolutely do sing songs, worshiping God ! They are songs of LOVE !

 

[JimiSurvivor]

There is no circumcision in the Ten Commandments, the commandments of God. The Ten Commandments are all about how God Himself tells us how to love Him Exo20:6 John14:15 and worship Him Mat15:3-14 Mark7:7-13 Rev14:7 Exo20:11

The covenant God made with Abraham preceded the Mosaic covenant and, formed the BASIS of the covenant with God.
Moses understood this. It was He who took the time to write down this history in the Torah:
9 God also said to Abraham, “You must keep My covenant—you and your descendants in the generations after you.
(Genesis 17:9)
The physical sign or SEAL of this covenant with God was CIRCUMCISION which God had commanded that every decedent of Abraham must receive. Instead of facing this squarely you refer once again to the Decalogue which does not mention what Abraham had done. However, practically speaking, the entire history of Israel and God could not be contained in just two stone tablets which is why the Torah was given.

Here are the words God spoke to Abraham about the covenant He had made with him:
10 This IS My covenant with you and your descendants after you, WHICH YOU ARE TO KEEP: Every male among you must be circumcised. 11You are to circumcise the flesh of your foreskin, and this will be a SIGN of between Me and you.
"GENERATION after GENERATION, every male must be circumcised when he is eight days old, including those born in your household and those purchased from a foreigner—even those who are not your offspring. Whether they are born in your household or purchased, they must be circumcised. My covenant in your flesh will be an everlasting covenant. But if any male is not circumcised, he will be cut off from his people; HE HAS BROKEN MY COVENANT.”
(Genesis 17:10-14)

Moses (the very same Moses who received the 10 commandments) had also received the command of circumcision which had been passed down to Him from Abraham. Do you think laws that are written on stone are somehow MORE true and authoritative than those God had personally spoken or those which have been written down by inspiration? Where is this principle in scripture? Moses himself almost lost his life for failing to circumcise his son Gershom. This shows how serious God was when He gave this command to Israel (Exodus 4:25)

After taking the position that all God's commands are eternal and immutable, when faced with the COMMAND of CIRCUMCISION, you suddenly pivot, calling God's commands "nothing" This leads me to doubt whether you really believe that "Keeping God's commandments is all that matters." Apparently, the command to take a day off every week matters but ancient rites and practices which reveal a person's commitment to keep covenant with God do not.

The law of Moses which contained circumcision was because of sin for breaking the law of God, the Ten Commandments why it was outside the ark of God, the Ten Commandments was inside and the blood covered the sins from the broken law of the Ten Commandments why this law is under His mercy seat -in heaven Heb8:1-5 Heb9:23-24 Rev11:19 because final atonement has not happened.
Why Paul said:

No, circumcision was not given as a punishment for breaking the Law. It was given long before the law was given to Moses and was a sign of the bond they had with God

Ten Commandments was inside and the blood covered the sins from the broken law of the Ten Commandments why this law is under His mercy seat -in heaven Heb8:1-5 Heb9:23-24 Rev11:19 because final atonement has not happened.

Here you go with your idiosyncratic idea that ONLY what was contained in the ark is eternal.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

The covenant God made with Abraham preceded the Mosaic covenant and, formed the BASIS of the covenant with God.
Moses understood this. It was He who took the time to write down this history in the Torah:
9 God also said to Abraham, “You must keep My covenant—you and your descendants in the generations after you.
(Genesis 17:9)
The physical sign or SEAL of this covenant with God was CIRCUMCISION which God had commanded that every decedent of Abraham must receive. Instead of facing this squarely you refer once again to the Decalogue which does not mention what Abraham had done. However, practically speaking, the entire history of Israel and God could not be contained in just two stone tablets which is why the Torah was given.

Here are the words God spoke to Abraham about the covenant He had made with him:
10 This IS My covenant with you and your descendants after you, WHICH YOU ARE TO KEEP: Every male among you must be circumcised. 11You are to circumcise the flesh of your foreskin, and this will be a SIGN of between Me and you.
"GENERATION after GENERATION, every male must be circumcised when he is eight days old, including those born in your household and those purchased from a foreigner—even those who are not your offspring. Whether they are born in your household or purchased, they must be circumcised. My covenant in your flesh will be an everlasting covenant. But if any male is not circumcised, he will be cut off from his people; HE HAS BROKEN MY COVENANT.”
(Genesis 17:10-14)

Moses (the very same Moses who received the 10 commandments) had also received the command of circumcision which had been passed down to Him from Abraham. Do you think laws that are written on stone are somehow MORE true and authoritative than those God had personally spoken or those which have been written down by inspiration? Where is this principle in scripture? Moses himself almost lost his life for failing to circumcise his son Gershom. This shows how serious God was when He gave this command to Israel (Exodus 4:25)

After taking the position that all God's commands are eternal and immutable, when faced with the COMMAND of CIRCUMCISION, you suddenly pivot, calling God's commands "nothing" This leads me to doubt whether you really believe that "Keeping God's commandments is all that matters." Apparently, the command to take a day off every week matters but ancient rites and practices which reveal a person's commitment to keep covenant with God do not.


No, circumcision was not given as a punishment for breaking the Law. It was given long before the law was given to Moses and was a sign of the bond they had with God

Here you go with your idiosyncratic idea that ONLY what was contained in the ark is eternal.

I beleive you are getting the word "covenant" or agreement confused with the law of God.

The Sabbath predates, Moses, predates the covenant or agreement with Israel, predates Jew, when God made everything according to His perfect plan which included the Sabbath.

This is the LORD both writing and speaking:

Exo 20:11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

The Sabbath is the only day the LORD named, everything else was called day 1, day 2 etc. The seventh day God named it the Sabbath from Creation, and used it interchangeable with the seventh day. Sabbath = the seventh day thus saith the LORD Exo20:11 Exo20:10 - He blessed the Sabbath and sanctified the Sabbath from Creation. What God blesses is forever 1Chro17:27 what God does is forever- no one can take from it or add to it Ecc3:14

We would never had circumcision and all that followed within that agreement had it not been for sin. It was added because of sin. The Sabbath was not, it was always part of God's perfect plan, why we see Sabbath-keeping Exo16 before God codified it in His Ten Commandments. God never codified circumcision in the Ten Commandments, it was part of the law of Moses added because of sin placed besides the ark of God, which is in heaven Rev11:19.

All you have provided in your post is that God made a covenant/agreement with Abraham with circumcision - everything about circumcision and the law of Moses was to teach one about the Ten Commandments- had the Ten Commandments, the law of God had never been broken, no such other law would have been needed. Jesus with His death put an end to the wall of separation over circumcision, because one needed to be circumcised to gain access to the cure for sin for temple services with animal sacrifices that required circumcision.



Eph 2:11 Therefore remember that you, once Gentiles in the flesh—who are called Uncircumcision by what is called the Circumcision made in the flesh by hands—12 that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14 For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, 15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, 16 and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity. 17 And He came and preached peace to you who were afar off and to those who were near. 18 For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father.


So in the NC instead of going to an earthy priest with an animal sacrifice and having to be circumcised- everyone can go directly to God when we sin- God is ministering on our behalf in His heavenly Temple Heb8:1-5 Heb 9:23-24 Rev11:19 Sin in the NC is still the same as the OC- breaking the law of God 1John3:4 James2:10-12 Mat5:19-30 because God shows no partiality Rom2:11 and God's righteousness Psa 119:172 Isa56:1-2 is forever Psa 119:142 its the foundation of His throne Psa 89:14

Why Sabbath-keeping continued on decades and decades after the Cross kept faithfully by all the apostles and His followers because it is a commandment of God. And continues on thus saith the LORD for worship in the New Heaven and New Earth Isa66:22-23 While circumcision or no circumcision may not matter- keeping the commandments of God is what matters 1Cor7:19 its the whole duty of man Ecc12:13-14 Rev14:12

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

You want to talk about cherry-picking? You are counting a word while ignoring what every single story in that chapter actually shows. Let's step back from Hebrews entirely and let God and Jesus speak for themselves.

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God's own words to Abraham — Genesis 22:16-18: "Because you have obeyed my voice... in your offspring shall all the nations of the earth be blessed."

This is the SAME Abraham in Hebrews 11. God himself called it obedience. The word is right there in the original account.

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God to Isaac — Genesis 26:5: "Because Abraham obeyed my voice and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws."

God's definition of Abraham's faith was obedience. Not feelings. Not mental agreement.

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Jesus — Matthew 7:21: "Not everyone who says to me Lord, Lord will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who DOES the will of my Father."

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Jesus — Luke 6:46: "Why do you call me Lord, Lord and do NOT do what I tell you?"

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Jesus — John 14:15: "If you love me, keep my commandments."

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1 Samuel 15:22: "To obey is better than sacrifice."

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The absence of a word does not erase the concept. Every person in Hebrews 11 moved when God spoke. That is obedience, whether you accept the word or not.

How are you doing with you format problem? I was able to read your first PDF article (The Letter without the Spirit), but now I can't find it?


🕊

 

[Mem]

You keep using your words and not Scripture, but

You understanding of scripture is veiled so there really is no point in bringing it up.

Jesus is LORD of the Sabbath day, it means someone else is lording the first day that we have chosen to serve Rom6:16 Dan7:25

These citations you've brought up offer cases in point.

Satan is not the lord of Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, or Friday. He is the lord of dust.

We need to be careful which voice we are serving and abiding to.

It appears that you've crowned Satan the lord of 6 days and Jesus only Lord of one day.

 

[vassal]

Again... let's take a look. Does the text in Hebrews 11 tell us in each case that the person "moved when God spoke"? Does the original story from the OT tell us that the person (or people) "moved when God spoke"?

Verse 3: All of us; nothing about obedience there;
V. 4 Abel: no;
V. 5 Enoch: no;
V. 11 Abraham: no;
V. 20 Isaac: no;
V. 21 Jacob: no;
V. 22 Joseph: no;
V. 23 Moses' parents: no;
V. 24 Moses: no;
V. 27 Moses: no;
V. 31 Rahab: no.

Go and read each story and you will see that in MOST of the cases cited, obedience to God's command was not a component of the action cited as evidence of faith in Hebrews 11.

Do your homework!

Let's open the actual stories.

Enoch — Genesis 5:22-24: "Enoch WALKED WITH GOD." Amos 3:3 asks: "Can two walk together unless they are agreed?" Walking with God is not passive. It is daily alignment with His will. That IS obedience.

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Abel — Genesis 4:3-7: God CORRECTED Cain for not doing what was RIGHT, telling him: "If you do well, will you not be accepted?" Abel did well. Cain did not. Doing well before God has always meant following His instructions. That IS obedience.

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Moses — Exodus 3-4: God spoke. Moses went. Simple.

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Rahab — Joshua 2:8-11: She declared: "The LORD your God, He is God in heaven above and on earth beneath." Then she acted on it immediately by protecting the spies at personal risk. James 2:25 would use her as a proof of works but since you prefer the OT — Joshua 6:25 confirms she was saved because of what she did.

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Jesus settles this entire argument — Matthew 7:24-27: "Everyone who HEARS these words of mine and DOES them is like a wise man who built his house on the rock."

Hearing without doing is the foolish man's way. Jesus himself demands the combination.

 

[vassal]

How are you doing with you format problem? I was able to read your first PDF article (The Letter without the Spirit), but now I can't find it?


🕊

ita a long document about 25 pages......i cannot post them all at once, only 10000 characters per post, i need to cut or pdf it. also not certain what to start with, chronological or historical or......did they remove the pdf? im starting to think i need to go to another forum.....

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

ita a long document about 25 pages......i cannot post them all at once, only 10000 characters per post, i need to cut or pdf it. also not certain what to start with, chronological or historical or......did they remove the pdf? im starting to think i need to go to another forum.....

I'm not sure.

I wanted to read it over for a thread that only talked about obeying just for rewards. That sounded really off to me. I posted that I thought as much, that the reason should be love for God, but posters to the thread kind of shouted me down saying that obeying for rewards is acceptable.

Your article counters that selfish attitude. The Pharisees put no love in obeying God and their man-made ones too so rhat Jesus was displeased
Their obedience for rewards also distorted how they obeyed so that things weren't even done God’s way.

I do hope you stay though. Your articles really do edify!


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