No living faith without works
- Thread starter ATG
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Prior to my conversion several years ago while still attending the Roman Catholic church, I had spent plenty of years on that roller coaster ride of fear and bandage to IN-security and was miserable! Those who fear loss of salvation are typically trusting in themselves/their performance to keep it. No assurance there. I have more faith in God's preservation (Psalm 37:28; Jude 1:1) than I do in self preservation.
Exactly. It's their pseudo disclaimer of 'licensing' sin. On the one hand, they want to be justified by their faith-alone without works, but on the other they also want to preach good works. Some even say that good works are necessary to prove their faith-alone is 'real' saving faith.
If so, then 'faith-alone' without works can never be 'real' saving faith, since faith with works can never be faith-alone. And if only faith-alone without works justifies, then anyone having faith with works cannot be justified, since they have no faith-alone without works.
Else, as Paul would say, Alone is no more alone.
Exactly. Scripture says alone is only without works. Therefore, Scripturally, faith-alone can never be with works. So, anyone preaching good works after having faith-alone, then Scripturally their faith-alone is no more alone, being with works.
James{2:14}
Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
And so, Scripturally, faith being with works is not alone.
But they say saving faith-alone without works, remains saving faith-alone with works. Therefore, their faith-alone is not Scriptural faith alone, being only without works, but their own find of faith-alone is both without and with works.
Their faith-alone therefore is not a practical statement, that neither Scripture nor grammar can agree with, but only ideological. As some call it, their faith-alone perspective, not Scriptural and practical truth.
In their own idealized kingdom, their saving faith-alone without works, remains their saving faith-alone with works. Faith with works does not justify anyone, but only their faith-alone with works can justify themselves, but not with God.
The thing is, that faith-alone Christians expose the ideological impracticality of their faith-alone justification, only because they also preach good works with their faith-alone. Some even as necessity to prove their own faith-alone is 'real' and 'genuine' to save.
Well, if their faith-alone must have works to prove itself true to save, then it's not possible to be saved and justified by that faith-alone without works. Except that salvation be by an unproven lie.
Not all faith-alone Christians box themselves into their own idealized dissociative corner. The honest and consistent faith-alone Christians, never bother preaching any works with their faith-alone at all. Their faith-alone truly stands all alone on it's own to save and justify. They faith-alone is neither without works, nor with works. Especially not with any works to 'prove' their faith-alone is 'real'. That's a complete non-sequitur to them, because having their faith-alone is itself it's own necessary proof.
For them, works are only a natural consequence of life in this world, like that of the animals. It's not naturally possible to be without works at all, and so the only difference between people and animals, is not the nature of the works, but only having faith-alone or not. For them, anyone preach a 'faith-alone' with works following, added, or accompanying, is naturally self-repetitious, since all people do things in life, which includes the animals, and so has nothing to do with people having faith-alone.
Their faith-alone is always spirit-only, having nothing to do with the natural works of the flesh on earth. They don't bother with preaching any works, since people will naturally do works of their own. Neither do they preach good or bad works, since all works are only natural in the flesh. And they especially don't play-preach any 'good' works, as being necessary to having faith-alone.
Therefore, they do not preach themselves into the hypocrisy of having faith-alone justification, while doing 'bad' works. Nor do they need to idealize their faith-alone, as being with and without works. Their faith-alone is truly forever all alone, and no works have anything to do with having faith-alone. They simply exhort having and keeping faith-alone, without any preaching any works at all.
For the truly consistent faith-alone Christian, preaching works is like telling people to make sure they breathe, eat, drink, sleep, while having and keeping faith-alone. Of course, their salvation and justification by faith-alone is simply being a person, and not just another natural brute beast of the field.
That's why all true faith-alone Christians are all unitarian: Having faith-alone is all that matters, no matter in whose name, or even without a name.
Act 17:23
For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD.
This seem to be the point where you go off the rails!
If we [Christians] do not obey, it means that we are human! It means that we are fallen creatures! It means that sin clings to us!
It is a VERY SAD reminder of why we need a savior! It causes us to get on bended knee, repent and ask to be strengthened.
2 Cor 12:7
And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.
We each need strength when attacked by Satan, and it is supplied by grace. . .
I have addressed your points, mentioned verses and written paragraphs on them. You not agreeing on parts of my answers doesn't mean I haven't done so.
Actually, we've agreed on a fair few of our points, just not everything. We will absolutely live a different life once being saved as we live for God and not the self.... Praise to Jesus for making it possible by digging us out of the hole through His sacrifice, asking we believe to receive such astonishing grace.
I've enjoyed the back and forth on here and wish you well, may God bless us all with truth, wisdom and growth in Jesus' name, amen...!
Won't do any good.
We're buried deep in our theological beliefs.
Even those that are not found in scripture.
I read also your post just above this one and, although it sounds convoluted, I have to agree.
The reason it sounds convoluted is because faith alone belief is a convoluted system that is not biblical.
Incorrect theology creates many problems, when, in fact, the NT is rather easy to understand - at least the thology that leads to salvation and beyond.
Yes.
Difficult for you to explain away all those verses.
Funny, because I've done it with yours.
We should not be posting a belief system that we cannot confirm to be true.
We should be careful with what we speak about the NT.
As far as I'm concered,,,there has been no back and forth.
There has been YOU posting scripture that you do not quite understand....
and me explaining it to you.
And then you post scripture back that you do not understand...
etc
etc
That is not a back and forth.
See you around.
Fear and bondage? Why would you be afraid if you were doing what you know you're supposed to do? It never cease to amaze me just how much people can actually ignore.
Folks who are "religious, but not right with God," only end up going through the motions of doing what they are supposed to do. Wihout faith, it's impossible to please God, as many people end up finding out the hard way. (Matthew 7:22-23)
Other than you believe it, how do you know some folks are "religious but not right with God" but you are?
Its not just some folks but many folks who are "religious, but not right with God." Prior to placing my faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation (Romans 3:24-26; 4:5,6; 5:1; Ephesians 2:8,9; Philippians 3:9) I was one of the many.
You completely ignored what I wrote but I'm suppose to think you have an authoritative understanding of Scripture?
We wouldn’t know since you deceptively evade telling us what your name was here before you were banned or left for some other reason.