The Ten Commandments are the Covenant, did you know?
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You keep saying, "I guess we will know soon enough" and things of this sort. Who are you trying to convince?
Because we do not decide God’s standard of righteousness (right-doing) He does. It’s all according to God and we each will have to stand before Him based on our own works 2Cor5:10 so He will have the final say. He knows the wheat from the tares. I believe He makes Himself clear in His word what is His righteousness, but at the end the only opinion that really matters is His. All I am trying to do is point us back to what He says by His own mouth, written by His own finger that a very wise man said doing this is mans all. Ecc12:13-14
You are definitely in the running for the Teacher's Pet crown, if that is of any consolation.
Once again you drag in the grossly overused false dichotomy of either following the law or being a profligate sinner.
You clearly don't understand that the Christian is not under the law AND ALSO is not sinning constantly.
You clearly don't understand that for the Christian, the sinful flesh is put to death and the inclination to sin is diminished and fading.
Do you believe that the judgment noted in 2 Corinthians 5:10 is for salvation? That is to say, does salvation depend on our works?
Romans 2:1 You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things.
You replied but you didn’t answer my question. Now you’re asking me to prove Paul told Gentiles not to keep the Sabbath, but the apostles never commanded Gentile believers to keep it in the first place. Why would Paul tell them to stop doing something they were never instructed to do?
If Christians must keep the Sabbath because it’s one of the commandments, then shouldn’t we also keep the rest of the Sabbath law that goes with it, like the sacrifices in Numbers 28:9–10 or the penalties in Exodus 31:14–17? The apostles addressed what Gentile believers must keep in Acts 15 and never required Sabbath observance.
Paul also wrote that believers should not be judged regarding Sabbaths.
“Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ.”
Colossians 2:16-17 ESV
He also taught that observing particular days is a matter of personal conviction, not a requirement.
“One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.”
Romans 14:5 ESV
Didn’t answer my question.
Exodus 20:6 — Israelites
Isaiah 56:6 — foreigners joining Israel’s covenant
John 14:15 — Jewish disciples before the New Covenant
John 15:10 — Jewish disciples before the cross
1 John 2:6 — Christians, but referring to Christlike living, not Mosaic law observance
Wow, you must believe God wants only Jewish people to love Him and follow Him none of these verses have your "added" commentary and I would consider what the Scripture warns about adding to the word of God Pro30:5-6
Taken out of context, Paul does not have the authority to countermand Christ nor would he. He is a professed servant of God, not His corrector.
Col 2:8 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ.
Paul's standard was Christ- Jesus is LORD of the Sabbath who said the Sabbath was made for man, that is according to Christ, Christ who is God spoke His Testimony written by Him personally Exo31:18 said Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy, the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD Exo20:10 the holy day of the LORD Isa58:13 that Jesus in His own words said the Sabbath would not end at the Cross Mat24:20 or ever, so either Paul is a rebel against Christ or man is twisting what Paul is saying as we are warned that sadly does not end well. The issue is not believing Christ and not doing what is according to Him, Paul did not have this same issue, he faithfully kept every Sabbath with both Jews and Gentiles Acts 13:42 Acts 13:44 Acts 15:21 Acts 18:4 just and God commanded because he taught keeping the commandments of God is what matters 1Cor7:19
2 Peter 3:15 and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation—as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, 16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.
So pray tell when did Christ teach one person to not keep the 4th commandment. You are following what you are hearing in your church instead of prayerfully and diligently studying the Bible for yourself, because if one would, they would never come to the conclusion that the people of God do not have to keep the commandments of God which would include the 4th commandment. Rev14:12 If you are really interested in Col2:16 which the context was left out and same with Romans 14, I can show you by Scripture what he is referring to. If your mind is made up, well I wish you well.
According to God, we are judged by our works
2 Cor 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.
Ecc 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter:
Fear God and keep His commandments,
For this is man’s all.
14 For God will bring every work into judgment,
Including every secret thing,
Whether good or evil.
James 2:10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty. From the "He who said" God from His own Testimony Exo31:18 the Ten Commandments.
John 12:48 He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him—the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day.
For all the people who think the words Jesus spoke is "just for Jews" is going to be sadly mistaken.
Why God is calling us back to worship Him, we are in the final days because whoever we obey is who we serve (worship)
Rev 14:6 Then I saw another angel flying in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach to those who dwell on the earth—to every nation, tribe, tongue, and people—7 saying with a loud voice, “Fear God and give glory to Him, for the hour of His judgment has come; and worship Him who made heaven and earth, the sea and springs of water.” quoting Exo20:11
Those who have good works or fruits, we are known by our fruits
Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.
We have to get through judgement first where God decides who is a wheat and who is a tare. After we stand before Christ on judgement day those who He chooses to give the gift of eternal life will be by grace through faith, because we have all sinned and fallen short of God's Glory. But Jesus came to save us from our sins Mat1:21 not in sin Heb10:26-30 if we are not walking a new life in Christ abiding in Him keeping His commandments John15:4-10 though love and faith and faith does not void the law, it does the opposite, it establishes the law Rom3:31 not everyone who says LORD LORD will make it God said He is looking for doers of His word, not just well I thought that was for Jews. Mat7:21-23 Luke6:46-48
They were Jews they all kept it there is scripture proving this. But before we look at the specific verses you quoted let us establish the most important principle of this entire discussion. When Jesus Himself spoke about the commandments and the Sabbath specifically He left absolutely no room for ambiguity:
Think not that I am come to destroy the law or the prophets. I am not come to destroy but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you till heaven and earth pass away one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law till all be fulfilled. (Matthew 5:17-18)
And He declared Himself Lord of the Sabbath. Not abolisher of it. Not replacer of it. Lord of it:
And he said unto them the sabbath was made for man and not man for the sabbath. Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath. (Mark 2:27-28)
You cannot be Lord of something that no longer exists. That is the foundation everything else must be measured against.
Now let us address your specific points honestly.
On Acts 15 and the Jerusalem Council
You say the apostles never required Sabbath observance for Gentiles in Acts 15. That is true. But let us read what Acts 15 was actually about. The specific question before the council was whether Gentiles needed to be circumcised and follow the Mosaic ceremonial law for salvation. That was the debate. The council gave four specific requirements to avoid immediate stumbling blocks for new Gentile believers coming out of paganism. It was never intended to be an exhaustive list of every commandment a believer should keep for the rest of their lives. To argue that because the Sabbath was not mentioned in Acts 15 it is therefore abolished is like saying because Acts 15 did not mention murder it is now acceptable to murder.
Furthermore immediately after giving those four requirements James quoted the prophet Amos and then added something remarkable that is almost always overlooked:
For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him being read in the synagogues every sabbath day. (Acts 15:21)
James was saying the Gentile believers would hear Moses read every Sabbath in the synagogues and learn from there. The assumption built into Acts 15 itself is that Gentile believers would be in the synagogue on the Sabbath learning God's ways. That is the exact opposite of Sabbath abolishment.
On Colossians 2:16-17
This is perhaps the most commonly used verse to argue against Sabbath observance and it deserves very careful attention. Let us read it in the KJV:
Let no man therefore judge you in meat or in drink or in respect of an holyday or of the new moon or of the sabbath days which are a shadow of things to come but the body is of Christ. (Colossians 2:16-17)
There are two critically important things to understand about this verse.
First the context. Paul is writing to believers in Colossae who were being pressured and judged by people pushing a specific false religious system involving asceticism, angel worship and man made regulations. (Colossians 2:18-23). He is telling them not to let these people judge them regarding their practice. He is not telling them to stop observing the Sabbath. He is telling them not to be condemned by legalistic outsiders regarding how they observe it.
Second and most importantly the phrase shadow of things to come refers specifically to the ceremonial sabbaths of the Mosaic calendar, the new moons, the annual feast sabbaths like Passover and the Day of Atonement, not the weekly seventh day Sabbath which was established at creation before any shadow or type existed. The weekly Sabbath was never a shadow pointing to Christ. It was established at creation as a permanent gift to humanity before sin ever entered the world. (Genesis 2:2-3).
The Sabbath that is a shadow in Colossians 2 refers to the ceremonial sabbaths of the annual feasts. The creation Sabbath stands in an entirely different category.
On Romans 14:5
One man esteemeth one day above another another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. (Romans 14:5)
Read the full context of Romans 14 carefully. Paul is addressing a specific dispute in the Roman church between Jewish believers who observed special fast days and dietary restrictions and Gentile believers who did not. The entire chapter is about not judging one another over personal convictions regarding food and special observance days within that specific cultural context. It is a pastoral letter addressing a local church conflict. It is not a doctrinal statement abolishing the fourth commandment.
Furthermore if Romans 14:5 truly means any day is as good as any other for worship then it equally abolishes Sunday worship since Sunday is also just one day among others by that same logic. Nobody argues that. Which reveals that this verse is not actually about abolishing any particular day of worship at all.
On the Sabbath sacrifices in Numbers 28:9-10
You ask whether we should also keep the Sabbath sacrifices if we keep the Sabbath commandment. This is a fair question and the answer lies in the distinction we have already established. The animal sacrifices were part of the ceremonial and Mosaic system that pointed forward to Christ and were completely fulfilled in His perfect and final sacrifice. They belong to the category of things that were shadows pointing to Him. The weekly Sabbath rest established at creation belongs to the category of the eternal moral law embedded in creation itself. These are two entirely different categories and conflating them creates unnecessary confusion.
The most important point of all
You began by saying the apostles never commanded Gentile believers to keep the Sabbath in the first place. But you are looking in the wrong place for the command. The command did not originate with the apostles. It originated with God at creation and was confirmed by Jesus Himself as Lord of the Sabbath. The question is not what the apostles commanded. The question is what God commanded and what Jesus confirmed.
And Jesus confirmed it with complete clarity:
The sabbath was made for man. (Mark 2:27)
Made for man. Not made for Jews. Not made for Israel. Made for man. At creation. Before any nation, any covenant or any apostolic letter ever existed.
And there is not a single verse in the entire New Testament where Jesus Himself says the Sabbath is abolished, moved to another day or made optional. Not one. The silence of Jesus on abolishing the Sabbath while speaking so clearly about its purpose and declaring Himself its Lord is itself one of the most powerful confirmations that it still stands exactly where God placed it from the very beginning.
That is a carefully set trap and I can see exactly where it is heading. If I say yes works matter at judgment then the conclusion being prepared is that I am teaching salvation by works. If I say no works do not matter at judgment then the conclusion being prepared is that the commandments are irrelevant. It is a false choice designed to corner rather than to genuinely seek truth.
So let go directly to Jesus Himself rather than getting caught in the either or trap being laid.
Nobody here has ever said salvation comes from keeping the commandments.you know this well as usual you just want to cause trouble. Salvation comes from Christ alone. That is not in question and never has been. Jesus Himself made the way of salvation clear:
For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life. (John 3:16)
That is the gift of salvation freely given through Christ. No argument there whatsoever.
But here is what Jesus also said and this is where the trap falls apart completely. He never presented salvation by grace and obedience to His commandments as contradictory. He tied them together as one inseparable reality:
If ye love me keep my commandments. (John 14:15)
And He was equally clear that genuine faith produces genuine obedience. You cannot separate the two without doing violence to everything He taught. He said:
Not every one that saith unto me Lord Lord shall enter into the kingdom of heaven but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. (Matthew 7:21)
And in the parable of the sheep and goats He described the judgment of Matthew 25 not as a salvation by works scenario but as a revelation of what genuine faith actually looks like in a person's life. The sheep did not earn their salvation by feeding the hungry and clothing the naked. Their acts of love revealed that their faith was genuine and alive. The goats did not lose salvation because of lack of works. Their lack of works revealed that their faith was never real to begin with.
Jesus described judgment with complete clarity:
And he shall set the sheep on his right hand but the goats on the left. (Matthew 25:33)
The separation at judgment reveals what was already true on the inside. Works do not produce salvation. But genuine salvation always produces works because a truly transformed heart naturally loves God and naturally desires to walk in His ways including His commandments.
So the complete and honest answer to the question is this. Salvation does not depend on works. It depends entirely on Christ. But genuine salvation inevitably produces a life that loves God and keeps His commandments not to earn anything but because that is what a heart transformed by the Holy Spirit naturally desires to do. As Jesus said:
He that hath my commandments and keepeth them he it is that loveth me. (John 14:21)
Keeping the commandments is not how you get saved. It is the evidence that you are. That is not a trap. That is just what Jesus said.
John 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him
Heb 5:9 And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him
This idea that what God asks of us is for "Jews only" is sadly a very deceitful doctrine.
We are saved by grace through faith.
This is what real faith looks like:
Heb 11:8 By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place which he would receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going.
James 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
The faith part is what saves us, the obedience part is what shows if our faith is genuine one not.
To be honest I am not sure I understand the argument. If we love God why would we not want to do what He asks?
Mat 7:21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’
Sadly someone said this was just for Jews, but its really just one deceiving themselves.
1 John2:3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.
Heb 5:9 And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him
This idea that what God asks of us is for "Jews only" is sadly a very deceitful doctrine.
We are saved by grace through faith.
This is what real faith looks like:
Heb 11:8 By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place which he would receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going.
James 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
The faith part is what saves us, the obedience part is what shows if our faith is genuine one not.
To be honest I am not sure I understand the argument. If we love God why would we not want to do what He asks?
Mat 7:21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’
Sadly someone said this was just for Jews, but its really just one deceiving themselves.
1 John2:3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.
yes, thanks for mentioning this was their likely the next target to attack scripture, ""the law including the commandments are for Jews only."" I hate using the term Attack but this is what some people do they don't seem to realize they go against scripture.