No living faith without works

[Inquisitor]

Once again. No single example of unconditional love nor grace in Scripture.


Mark{1:15}

The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Acts{3:19}
Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:

Cor {7:10}
For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of:

Jesus only forgives them that repent for His grace and faith, not any one that repents not, whether with or without having faith-alone.

I am not forgiven by Jesus Christ nor justified with Him, if I am sinning against Him with the world.

How about you? Are you forgiven and justified with your Christ, while you are sinning with the world?

You quoted the Truth.

Mark{1:15}
The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Turn and believe the gospel for forgiveness and reception of the Holy Spirit.

Our salvation is a free gift given to us unconditionally.

Our perfect righteousness is also a free gift and we have the righteousness of Christ.

Peter in Acts 15, said we are saved by grace.

Salvation must be fool proof, unconditional, and cannot rely on our behavior.

We cannot be saved in any other way.

Jesus came for the unrighteous.

 

[ATG]

Unfortunately, that applies to everyone even you.Theology is embedded in the understanding of Christianity right across the spectrum.

Correct. Fortunately it does apply to me. We are justified by works, and not by faith alone.

You embedded justification by faith-alone is not anywhere in me. I keep it as far away from my heart and life with Jesus as possible.

Especially the more I see sinners trying to be justified by their faith-alone, while also sinning against Jesus.

Are you justified by your faith-alone, while committing a sinful deed against God?

 

[ATG]

You quoted the Truth.

Yes, thank you.

Mark{1:15}
The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Turn and believe the gospel for forgiveness and reception of the Holy Spirit.

Our salvation is a free gift given to us unconditionally.

You started quoting the truth, until you ended it with your own unconditional contradiction of conditional repentance.

Our perfect righteousness is also a free gift and we have the righteousness of Christ.

So, you are doing righteousness at all times?

Psa 106:3
Blessed are they that keep judgment, and he that is doing righteousness at all times.


1 John{3:7}
Little children, let no man deceive you: he that is doing righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

Jesus came for the unrighteous.

Another half-lie. He comes for the unrighteous to repent.

He does not come for them that repent not, but are righteous by faith-alone.

Are you righteous by your faith-alone, while doing an unrighteous deed?

 

[Inquisitor]

Correct. Fortunately it does apply to me. We are justified by works, and not by faith alone.

You embedded justification by faith-alone is not anywhere in me. I keep it as far away from my heart and life with Jesus as possible.

Especially the more I see sinners trying to be justified by their faith-alone, while also sinning against Jesus.

Are you justified by your faith-alone, while committing a sinful deed against God?

We all sin.

I am not faith alone as that is an abbreviation.

I am grace through the instrument of believing in Jesus for my salvation.

Romans 10:13
Anyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.

Do you believe that verse?

 

[Inquisitor]

Yes, thank you.

You started quoting the truth, until you ended it with your own unconditional contradiction of conditional repentance.


So, you are doing righteousness at all times?

Psa 106:3
Blessed are they that keep judgment, and he that is doing righteousness at all times.


1 John{3:7}
Little children, let no man deceive you: he that is doing righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.


Another half-lie. He comes for the unrighteous to repent.

He does not come for them that repent not, but are righteous by faith-alone.

The gospel is not about me.

The gospel is about Jesus and what He has done for us.

Christianity is agape love to the maximum which is an outward Christian life.

We are highly social creatures and Christians live a life focused on others and not ourselves.

I gave up trying to be good and rely on the Holy Spirit, more and more, now.

It's not about me.

 

[Mem]

It's a lie that Jesus accuses him of not keeping His commandments, but rather Jesus loves him for it.

Aack! Thanks for catching that> I just realized it doesn't say what I meant for it to say. I was probably going between the wording of ask "Did Jesus correct him...?" or "Jesus didn't correct him..." and missed it entirely. Of course, it also might've been a gremlin.

With that said, can you be certain that the claim "Jesus loves him for it" isn't "adding one's words"?

 

[Mem]

Once again. No single example of unconditional love nor grace in Scripture.

You don't recognize neither love nor grace in Scripture? Think about that. The gospel is obviously veiled to you.

 

[Gideon300]

I'll make it a point to look into grace.


However,,,we are saved by God's grace through our faith.


In post no. 517 @Dino246 was responding to a post of mine.

I made the comment that FAITH ALONE sounds like a convoluted idea because it is not taught in the bible.

Dino said people like me ** complicate and corrupt the idea of FAITH ALONE.

So, I sincerely believe that, maybe, the two of you could agree on what FAITH ALONE means.

And I'd love to have a definiton of FAITH ALONE since there seems to be some confusion nowadays.
(since the reformation in 1500AD)

So, since we agree that we are saved BY GRACE,,,,through FAITH.....

what exactly does FAITH ALONE mean to you?


**people who state that God must be obeyed.

Faith alone means works are not required to be born again. I prefer to use the expression "born again" because "saved" has different meanings to different people.

If someone finds out that you are in deep financial trouble and offers you a million dollars, then you may take it or not. It is a gift. If you trust the person offering you the money, you will likely take it, especially if you are truly desperate. Alternatively, you could go and work at three jobs, 100 hours a week and so try to meet your own needs. That is works.

If works save you, it is not a gift. Grace works through faith and even that is God's gift.

Works should be the consequence of being born again. It's like a seed sown. If the spirit of the individual is born again, the "seed" will grow.

"For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God." 1 Peter 1:23

The power of growth is in the seed itself. What the believer needs is to tend to the new life that we have in Christ. We do this by the ministry of the people God has set in the church, by our own fellowship with Jesus and our studies in God's word and by turning away from those things that hinder our progress.

This is a lifetime's work of grace. I was born again over 50 years ago. I was instantly changed and my colleagues saw it and commented. At the same time, I had many, many problems and weaknesses. The changes God effected in my spirit had to be worked out in experience. And that is still ongoing. I am still a work in progress. I do not believe that holiness perfection is available in this lifetime.

 

[Gideon300]

Once again. No single example of unconditional love nor grace in Scripture.


Mark{1:15}

The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Acts{3:19}
Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:

Cor {7:10}
For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of:

Jesus only forgives them that repent for His grace and faith, not any one that repents not, whether with or without having faith-alone.

I am not forgiven by Jesus Christ nor justified with Him, if I am sinning against Him with the world.

How about you? Are you forgiven and justified with your Christ, while you are sinning with the world?

Absolute twaddle. Lord Jesus asked the Father to forgive those who crucified Him. Jesus died for us while we were sinners. God so loved the world that He gave His only Son......

Jesus did not come to condemn the world. Jesus died for sinners. Jesus died for Paul before Paul repented. You have no idea of God's nature and character.

 

[Toknow]

True. Faith is valid for salvation. That's an important distinction. God doesn't accept works in place of faith for salvation.

Once a person is saved, there is a new paradigm in place, and the old pre-salvation paradigm is irrelevant.

However, (and this is what the Sabbatarians, Judaizers and legalists get wrong), works of the Law (obedience to the Mosaic statutes) are also irrelevant, because the now-saved person is not under the law.

What does matter is expression of faith in God through good works. What the OP of this thread doesn't understand, and apparently refuses even to attempt to understand, is that "faith alone" only refers to the process leading to and encompassing salvation. From the point of salvation forward, "faith alone" is no longer relevant.

Well Dino....
looks like we agree.

I suppose it would be interesting to know what you thought I was stating since I try to be very precise.

But no matter.

 

[Toknow]

I gave Scripture. Which part of Scripture did you not understand?

Already replied to.
You were addressing The law.
No Christian is under the law.

I do believe your previous post,,,to which I just responded, makes clear your position.
I believe we agree.

 

[Toknow]

See, you respond with sarcasim and I have read some of your really rude comments to others where you are making fun of them

I don't think we have anything helpful to say to each other.

Just to clarify since i haven't been on here long and you are very accusatory.

I DO use sarcasm.

I DO NOT make fun of persons.

 

[Toknow]

Faith alone means works are not required to be born again. I prefer to use the expression "born again" because "saved" has different meanings to different people.

And here is where the confusion might be.....
Every Christian believes we are saved/born again by faith alone.
I don't know any denomination that teaches that works justify.
Not even the CC.
And I use the word JUSTIFY a lot to try to be clear...but apparently it doesn't help too much.

When we speak of works/good deeds,,,,it should be understood that the poster means after salvation.

If someone finds out that you are in deep financial trouble and offers you a million dollars, then you may take it or not. It is a gift. If you trust the person offering you the money, you will likely take it, especially if you are truly desperate. Alternatively, you could go and work at three jobs, 100 hours a week and so try to meet your own needs. That is works.

NO!

You just contradicted what you said above.

Here is what you just stated:
"Faith alone means works are not required to be born again."

So now why, in your analogy, are you talking about working 100 hours?
I thought you said that only faith saves?

Which, indeed, is true.

If works save you, it is not a gift. Grace works through faith and even that is God's gift.

Works should be the consequence of being born again. It's like a seed sown. If the spirit of the individual is born again, the "seed" will grow.

Right.
Good works/good deeds come AFTER being born again.
This is SANCTIFICATION.

Again,,,,no Christian believes that works save a person.
JUSTIFICATION

"For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God." 1 Peter 1:23

Gideon....The imperishable seed in 1 Peter 1:23 is the word of God.


1 Peter 1:17-25
17 If you address as Father the One who impartially judges according to each one's work, conduct yourselves in fear during the time of your stay on earth;

18 knowing that you were not redeemed with perishable things like silver or gold from your futile way of life inherited from your forefathers,

19 but with precious blood, as of a lamb unblemished and spotless, the blood of Christ.

20 For He was foreknown before the foundation of the world, but has appeared in these last times for the sake of you

21 who through Him are believers in God, who raised Him from the dead and gave Him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God.

22 Since you have in obedience to the truth purified your souls for a sincere love of the brethren, fervently love one another from the heart,

23 for you have been born again not of seed which is perishable but imperishable, that is, through the living and enduring word of God.

24 For, "ALL FLESH IS LIKE GRASS, AND ALL ITS GLORY LIKE THE FLOWER OF GRASS. THE GRASS WITHERS, AND THE FLOWER FALLS OFF,

25 BUT THE WORD OF THE LORD ENDURES FOREVER." And this is the word which was preached to you.


Verse 17 we will be judged by our works. This is repeated by Paul in Romans 2 and Jesus in John 5:28-29

Verse 18, 19 we were not redeemed with perishable things....but with the precious blood of Christ.

Verse 21 we are believers in God through Jesus.

Verse 22 we have purified out souls through obedience to the truth.

Verse 23 the word of God is the imperisable seed.

Verse 25 the word of God will live forever. It is imperisable.

The power of growth is in the seed itself. What the believer needs is to tend to the new life that we have in Christ. We do this by the ministry of the people God has set in the church, by our own fellowship with Jesus and our studies in God's word and by turning away from those things that hinder our progress.

Agreed.

1 Peter 1:13 tells us to gird our minds for action.


1 Peter 1:13-14
13 Therefore, prepare your minds for action, keep sober in spirit, fix your hope completely on the grace to be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ.
14 As obedient children, do not be conformed to the former lusts which were yours in your ignorance,


Jesus said we are to act on His words. Matthew 7:24


Matthew 7.24
24 "Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock.

This is a lifetime's work of grace. I was born again over 50 years ago. I was instantly changed and my colleagues saw it and commented. At the same time, I had many, many problems and weaknesses. The changes God effected in my spirit had to be worked out in experience. And that is still ongoing. I am still a work in progress. I do not believe that holiness perfection is available in this lifetime.

There is no perfection in this life.
The NT, in fact, does not teach this.

it just teaches that we are to persevere in sanctification...as even the verses above state.


We seem to be agreeing.

 

[Inquisitor]

Correct. Fortunately it does apply to me. We are justified by works, and not by faith alone.

You embedded justification by faith-alone is not anywhere in me. I keep it as far away from my heart and life with Jesus as possible.

Especially the more I see sinners trying to be justified by their faith-alone, while also sinning against Jesus.

Are you justified by your faith-alone, while committing a sinful deed against God?

Your a sinner.

Stop trying to accuse other Christians of sin when you sin in a multitude of ways.

You can boast about your own obedience, legalism, works, but not before God.

Be careful in those accusations and your boasting.

 

[Inquisitor]

Yes, thank you.

You started quoting the truth, until you ended it with your own unconditional contradiction of conditional repentance.


So, you are doing righteousness at all times?

Psa 106:3
Blessed are they that keep judgment, and he that is doing righteousness at all times.


1 John{3:7}
Little children, let no man deceive you: he that is doing righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.


Another half-lie. He comes for the unrighteous to repent.

He does not come for them that repent not, but are righteous by faith-alone.

Are you righteous by your faith-alone, while doing an unrighteous deed?

You may have completely misunderstood the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Salvation is a free gift.

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

God is love and loves us unconditionally.

Romans 5:6-8
You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly.
Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous man, though for a good man someone might
possibly dare to die. But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were
still sinners, Christ died for us.

The reason for your salvation is based on that perfect sacrifice that Jesus performed.

Salvation itself is not based on your past behavior, present behavior, or even future
behavior.

You must separate the free gift of salvation from your concept of self sanctification.

No matter how well you behave you cannot achieve perfection or even close to that.

Therefore your act of self sanctification is always flawed, misguided, missing on occasion.

Give all the glory to Jesus Christ and forget about yourself for five minutes.

 

[Inquisitor]

And here is where the confusion might be.....
Every Christian believes we are saved/born again by faith alone.
I don't know any denomination that teaches that works justify.
Not even the CC.
And I use the word JUSTIFY a lot to try to be clear...but apparently it doesn't help too much.

When we speak of works/good deeds,,,,it should be understood that the poster means after salvation.


NO!

You just contradicted what you said above.

Here is what you just stated:
"Faith alone means works are not required to be born again."

So now why, in your analogy, are you talking about working 100 hours?
I thought you said that only faith saves?

Which, indeed, is true.


Right.
Good works/good deeds come AFTER being born again.
This is SANCTIFICATION.

Again,,,,no Christian believes that works save a person.
JUSTIFICATION


Gideon....The imperishable seed in 1 Peter 1:23 is the word of God.


1 Peter 1:17-25
17 If you address as Father the One who impartially judges according to each one's work, conduct yourselves in fear during the time of your stay on earth;

18 knowing that you were not redeemed with perishable things like silver or gold from your futile way of life inherited from your forefathers,

19 but with precious blood, as of a lamb unblemished and spotless, the blood of Christ.

20 For He was foreknown before the foundation of the world, but has appeared in these last times for the sake of you

21 who through Him are believers in God, who raised Him from the dead and gave Him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God.

22 Since you have in obedience to the truth purified your souls for a sincere love of the brethren, fervently love one another from the heart,

23 for you have been born again not of seed which is perishable but imperishable, that is, through the living and enduring word of God.

24 For, "ALL FLESH IS LIKE GRASS, AND ALL ITS GLORY LIKE THE FLOWER OF GRASS. THE GRASS WITHERS, AND THE FLOWER FALLS OFF,

25 BUT THE WORD OF THE LORD ENDURES FOREVER." And this is the word which was preached to you.


Verse 17 we will be judged by our works. This is repeated by Paul in Romans 2 and Jesus in John 5:28-29

Verse 18, 19 we were not redeemed with perishable things....but with the precious blood of Christ.

Verse 21 we are believers in God through Jesus.

Verse 22 we have purified out souls through obedience to the truth.

Verse 23 the word of God is the imperisable seed.

Verse 25 the word of God will live forever. It is imperisable.




Agreed.

1 Peter 1:13 tells us to gird our minds for action.


1 Peter 1:13-14
13 Therefore, prepare your minds for action, keep sober in spirit, fix your hope completely on the grace to be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ.
14 As obedient children, do not be conformed to the former lusts which were yours in your ignorance,


Jesus said we are to act on His words. Matthew 7:24


Matthew 7.24
24 "Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock.



There is no perfection in this life.
The NT, in fact, does not teach this.

it just teaches that we are to persevere in sanctification...as even the verses above state.


We seem to be agreeing.

I don't like 'works justify'.

I prefer works perfect your faith.

We are a new creation in Christ and our life is for good works.

Every Christian must do works but not for salvation; our salvation will remain a free gift
come hell or high water.

 

[BillyBob]

Correct. Fortunately it does apply to me. We are justified by works, and not by faith alone.

You embedded justification by faith-alone is not anywhere in me. I keep it as far away from my heart and life with Jesus as possible.

Especially the more I see sinners trying to be justified by their faith-alone, while also sinning against Jesus.

Are you justified by your faith-alone, while committing a sinful deed against God?

You really need to learn a new phrase. You're like a bad scratch on a phonograph record, you keep repeating yourself!
When you said "Adios". I should have known better than to get my hopes up. . . . .

 

[Toknow]

I don't like 'works justify'.

I prefer works perfect your faith.

We are a new creation in Christ and our life is for good works.

Every Christian must do works but not for salvation; our salvation will remain a free gift
come hell or high water.

Who said works justify?

 

[Just_A__Follower]

Your a sinner.

Stop trying to accuse other Christians of sin when you sin in a multitude of ways.

You can boast about your own obedience, legalism, works, but not before God.

Be careful in those accusations and your boasting.

Nah he’s actually stated before that he doesn’t sin. He’s also stated that his theology is of the 19th century holiness movement. He believes we can achieve perfection and full sanctification in this life. He also stated that if you do sin you are removed from the body of Christ. So good luck getting through to him. Pride, self righteousness, and a closed mind. Of the phrase faith alone if you haven’t noticed yet is a trigger for him.

 

[Inquisitor]

Jesus only forgives them that repent for His grace and faith, not any one that repents not, whether with or without having faith-alone.

I am not forgiven by Jesus Christ nor justified with Him, if I am sinning against Him with the world.

How about you? Are you forgiven and justified with your Christ, while you are sinning with the world?

You have lots of accusations to make and in such a gentle spirit I might add.

Read the following verse carefully.

Colossians 1:22
Yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy
and blameless and beyond reproach.

You don't sanctify yourself in order to present yourself before God, holy and blameless.

1 Corinthians 6:11
Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name
of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

You sanctify yourself?

1 Corinthians 1:30
But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and
sanctification, and redemption.

No matter how you read the scripture it is Jesus Christ that is the sole cause, in every way, for our
salvation.