ARE YOU PRE-TRIB, MID-TRIB, PRE-WRATH, OR POST-TRIB?

[cv5]

Some of you like to compare the Jewish wedding pattern, the story of the flood, the story about Lot, etc. to the End Times Scenario. However, those things do not correlate to the End Times Scenario like you would like to believe.

There is no "tribulation period" in the Jewish wedding pattern.

There is no "tribulation period" in the story of the flood.

There is no "tribulation period" in the story about Lot.

In the story of the flood and in the story about Lot - there is only 'wrath of God'.

And, of course, there is not even any type of 'wrath of God' in the Jewish wedding pattern.

So - "the best you can hope for" in these things - is to show 'removal' before 'Wrath of God'.

Nowhere in the Bible does anything indicate any type of 'removal' before 'Great Tribulation'.

However, there are places in the Bible that indicate that we will in fact endure 'tribulation'.

This is the 'great tribulation' that Jesus spoke of in Matthew 24.

Whether you realize it or not - you "invent" these associations that do not exist in scripture because you have been taught to wrap all scripture around the idea of 'pre-trib' rapture - because you so much want to believe it.

@cv5 - I like and actually agree with a good part of some of the "lessons" you have posted about different things you are trying to associate with the End Times Scenario; however, I cannot agree that those things actually "prove" the association you are trying to form - it is simply not there. All you are actually able to indicate/show is that 'rapture' is before 'Wrath of God' - there is simply no 'rapture' before 'Great Tribulation' anywhere in the Bible.

And, for anyone who wants to label the 'Seals' and 'Trumpets' as being [part of the] 'Great Tribulation' - you are incorrectly interpreting scripture - the 'Vials' no-more-and-no-less are the 'Wrath of God' - it is very plain to see in scripture - and backed up by order-of-event indications in scripture also.

The resurrection and rapture will occur at the Second Coming of Christ - when He "will be here to stay" for 1000 years - and not before.

He is not going to show up - then leave - then come back again - there is no 'third' coming of Christ - when He comes He is here to stay and set up His kingdom on earth. All of the things you read about in scripture concerning His coming back will occur in their proper order when He comes. And, He is only "coming back" once - and He is here to stay.

Believe it! Because, it is what the Bible really actually says...

The rapture is not the Second Coming. And the Groom comes unannounced (in the air never touching the Mount of Olives) to snatch the bride to enjoy their seven years honeymoon in Heaven. The entire world does not see and does not recognize this event.

The Second Coming is for Israel. With massive cosmic and earthly signs and wonders proceeding for seven years. Until He does come where every eye will see Him lighting upon the Mount of Olives.

Somebody is confused and it certainly is not me.

 

[Dino246]

I don’t know about anyone else, but I am pre-wrath.

I have not undergone the wrath of God.

 

[GaryA]

The rapture is not the Second Coming. And the Groom comes unannounced (in the air never touching the Mount of Olives) to snatch the bride to enjoy their seven years honeymoon in Heaven. The entire world does not see and does not recognize this event.

The Second Coming is for Israel. With massive cosmic and earthly signs and wonders proceeding for seven years. Until He does come where every eye will see Him lighting upon the Mount of Olives.

Somebody is confused and it certainly is not me.

The Second Coming of Christ will be unannounced. The resurrection and rapture will occur at that time.

The Second Coming of Christ is for everyone - it is Jesus coming back to set up His kingdom on earth.

 

[GaryA]

Some of you like to think that the Olivet Discourse is "all about Israel" while believing that Daniel 9:24-27 (KJV) includes events in our future.

You have that backwards.

Daniel 9:24-27 (KJV) must be looked at in the context of the whole chapter. It is in fact only about Israel and the First Coming of Christ.

The Olivet Discourse is about the next ~2000 years - all of it - no parts of it missed or skipped - until the Second Coming of Christ.

Revelation prophecy fits right in with the prophecy of the Olivet Discourse - same time frame - same events - same world history.

 

[GaryA]

Revelation 13:

7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. 8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

When you understand exactly why it is that verse 7 is referring to something in the distant past while verse 8 is referring to something in our future - then and only then - may you consider yourself to have a good grasp of biblical eschatology. Why? Because, until you realize and understand that the events of End Times prophecy occur over a long period of time rather than a short one - you cannot possibly correctly interpret End Times prophecy.

Verse 7 is talking about events during the Dark Ages. Verse 8 is talking about worshipping the beast.

You have to look at it on God's time scale.

 

[GaryA]

Please take note that verse 7 is written with a past-tense grammatical construction while verse 8 is written with a future-tense grammatical construction. This is because - in the verses following, concerning the second beast - the events of those verses align between the events of verse 7 and the events of verse 8.

Regardless of what you may think, verse 7 and verse 8 do not occupy the same time frame in history.

 

[GaryA]

There is A LOT of this type of thing in the Bible. And, unless you learn how to recognize it for what it is, you will be "all over the place" in your study of End Times prophecy.

 

[GaryA]

Revelation 13 starts out with an 'overview' - then (verse 5) "zooms in on" the 'reign' of the [first] beast - the 42 months - which, in history, was from 538-1798. Then (verse 8), it makes the mention of the future worship of the beast along with some advisory wisdom.

The verses about the second beast are a description of the "setup" to the worship of the beast and the mark of the beast.

The prophecy in this chapter of Revelation takes place over a long period of time and not a short one.

 

[GaryA]

The prophecy in Revelation 6 and the prophecy in Revelation 12 also include long periods of time. That is to say, that what is described in each of those chapters occurs over a long span of time.

 

[Omegatime]

Pre-Tribulation Rapture


So Christ died only once to take away the sins of many people. But when he comes again, it will not be to take away sin. He will come to save everyone who is waiting for him. Hebrews 9:28

This scripture has pre-trib written all over it.

The 70th week of Daniel, the final week of 7 years is to deal with sin

 

[GaryA]

So Christ died only once to take away the sins of many people. But when he comes again, it will not be to take away sin. He will come to save everyone who is waiting for him. Hebrews 9:28

This scripture has pre-trib written all over it.

Hebrews 9:

28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

There is no 'pre-trib' in Hebrews 9:28 - it exists only in the minds of people who choose to believe it.

The most significant thing in this verse for the context of this discussion is the phrase 'the second time'.

There is no third time - there is only the Second Coming of Christ - which is the second time He will appear.

The 70th week of Daniel, the final week of 7 years is to deal with sin

The death, burial, and resurrection of Christ dealt with sin.

The 70th week of Daniel ended in 34 A.D. - the end of a continuous 490 years - just as the prophecy stated.

 

[GaryA]

I don’t know about anyone else, but I am pre-wrath.

I have not undergone the wrath of God.

Nor will you (only if you are a born-again child of God, of course) - according to scripture. However, according to scripture - you will experience 'tribulation'.

@Omegatime - 'pre-wrath' is written in scripture - 'pre-trib' is not.

 

[GaryA]

This is how he will appear:

2 Thessalonians 1:

7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, 8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

(albeit, not in the first moment of His appearance - but, when He is "dishing out" the 'Wrath of God')

 

[GaryA]

There is A LOT of this type of thing in the Bible. And, unless you learn how to recognize it for what it is, you will be "all over the place" in your study of End Times prophecy.

One of the places you have to be really careful concerning the chronology of what is written is the Olivet Discourse.

Please take a close look at the 'Comments' column in/on the chart/table on this web page:

Olivet Discourse

Do you see how it is not a simple straight-through chronological order of events?

 

[Amargosa]

One must understand that the “Tribulation” is the seventieth week of Daniel. It is a seven year period. There were 69 “weeks” of years, or 490 years of punishment for Israel. But the final week of years (7 years) of punishment will be upon the whole world for rejecting its Messiah, Jesus Christ.

When will it happen? We don’t know. It is mentioned by The Lord Jesus in the Olivet Discourse. But also brought up in the Olivet discourse was the fight tree. The fig tree representing Israel. Sure, the olive tree represents Israel, in a spiritual sense. But the fig tree represents Israel in its land.

“From the fig tree learn its lesson: as soon as its branch becomes tender and puts out its leaves, you know that summer is near.“
Israel is the sign. Israel is the key. Because Israel became a nation again, we know that “summer is near.” I believe that the church is closer than ever and prophetically, nothing else needs to happen before the rapture. The rapture will proceed the tribulation., so be like the wise virgins in the parable of the virgins.

Jesus himself said he would keep us from the tribulation that comes upon the whole world, that day of The LORD, that day of wrath.

“Because you have kept my word about patient endurance, I will keep you from the hour of trial that is coming on the whole world, to try those who dwell on the earth.” Revelation 3:10. It is a wonderful promise of hope.

Revelation 4:1 opens with John being called up to heaven. Here, the church is illustrated by John. For the rest of Revelation, the church isn’t mentioned again. (Well, except in the epilogue at the end of the book.) Three chapters of Revelation about the church open the book, then… we’re gone.

“The fig tree ripens its figs, and the vines are in blossom; they give forth fragrance. Arise, my love, my beautiful one, and come away.” Song Of Solomon 2:13

 

[Psalm1]

ARE YOU PRE-TRIB, MID-TRIB, PRE-WRATH, OR POST-TRIB?

None of the above

I see the resurrection/rapture at Rev 14:14---

Rev 14:14 is a Jewish gathering, complete with Jewish firstfruits. No mention there of any resurrection at that Jewish gathering

Jesus is the other firstfruits.
The firstfruits of the first resurrection.

2 entirely different gatherings.

 

[cv5]

ARE YOU PRE-TRIB, MID-TRIB, PRE-WRATH, OR POST-TRIB?

None of the above

I see the resurrection/rapture at Rev 14:14---

No. The shout, harpazo and chuppah are all COMPLETELY pre trib.
The Groom and Bride are enjoying their 7 day (7 trib years) CHUPPAH at the Fathers house.

11th step: Chuppah (חֻפָּה) – Bridal Chamber / Canopy

The couple enters the chuppah, symbolizing the consummation and union.

Traditionally associated with a seven-day bridal chamber period.

 

[cv5]

One must understand that the “Tribulation” is the seventieth week of Daniel. It is a seven year period. There were 69 “weeks” of years, or 490 years of punishment for Israel. But the final week of years (7 years) of punishment will be upon the whole world for rejecting its Messiah, Jesus Christ.

When will it happen? We don’t know. It is mentioned by The Lord Jesus in the Olivet Discourse. But also brought up in the Olivet discourse was the fight tree. The fig tree representing Israel. Sure, the olive tree represents Israel, in a spiritual sense. But the fig tree represents Israel in its land.

“From the fig tree learn its lesson: as soon as its branch becomes tender and puts out its leaves, you know that summer is near.“
Israel is the sign. Israel is the key. Because Israel became a nation again, we know that “summer is near.” I believe that the church is closer than ever and prophetically, nothing else needs to happen before the rapture. The rapture will proceed the tribulation., so be like the wise virgins in the parable of the virgins.

Jesus himself said he would keep us from the tribulation that comes upon the whole world, that day of The LORD, that day of wrath.

“Because you have kept my word about patient endurance, I will keep you from the hour of trial that is coming on the whole world, to try those who dwell on the earth.” Revelation 3:10. It is a wonderful promise of hope.

Revelation 4:1 opens with John being called up to heaven. Here, the church is illustrated by John. For the rest of Revelation, the church isn’t mentioned again. (Well, except in the epilogue at the end of the book.) Three chapters of Revelation about the church open the book, then… we’re gone.

“The fig tree ripens its figs, and the vines are in blossom; they give forth fragrance. Arise, my love, my beautiful one, and come away.” Song Of Solomon 2:13

Revelation 4:1 opens with John being called up to heaven. Here, the church is illustrated by John. For the rest of Revelation, the church isn’t mentioned again. (Well, except in the epilogue at the end of the book.) Three chapters of Revelation about the church open the book, then… we’re gone.

Amen to that!

 

[BBerean]

I’d read 2 Thessalonians ch 2 Apostle Paul makes it very plain read the whole chapter. Verse 1-3 makes it very clear That day is for believers, not Israel .

 

[Psalm1]

The Second Coming of Christ will be unannounced. The resurrection and rapture will occur at that time.

The Second Coming of Christ is for everyone - it is Jesus coming back to set up His kingdom on earth.

No rapture at that time.
The white horse coming is saints with Jesus coming from heaven.
The NT lists 3 distinct comings.
Not one.