No living faith without works

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Cameron143 said:
The word call in Romans 8:30 is a summons. Look it up.
Click to expand...
Did I post what it means?
Yes I did.

YOU want ME to do YOUR work for you?



It might mean summons....
some theologians believe that Romans 8:30 is speaking about OT saints since it is in the past tense
and is referring to action already taken.

I've said several times that using strong's is not the best way to understand what God wants to reveal to us.

Romans 8:29 states that God has always been concerned about those He FOREKNEW.
THESE He predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son.

Then it goes into the past tense....
these He also called, justified and glorified.

If they are GLORIFIED it means they have already passed on.
A person must be dead to be glorified.

So who is Paul speaking of?



We also have to use other verses to understand:

John 12:42
32 "And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself."
 
Toknow said:
Did I post what it means?
Yes I did.

YOU want ME to do YOUR work for you?



It might mean summons....
some theologians believe that Romans 8:30 is speaking about OT saints since it is in the past tense
and is referring to action already taken.

I've said several times that using strong's is not the best way to understand what God wants to reveal to us.

Romans 8:29 states that God has always been concerned about those He FOREKNEW.
THESE He predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son.

Then it goes into the past tense....
these He also called, justified and glorified.

If they are GLORIFIED it means they have already passed on.
A person must be dead to be glorified.

So who is Paul speaking of?



We also have to use other verses to understand:

John 12:42
32 "And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself."
Click to expand...
All men doesn't mean every single person ever born. If that was the meaning the phrase all mankind would have been used. All men just means people out of every nation, tribe, kindred, and tongue.
 
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studier said:
Same word as Luke14 & used 146 times in the NC.

Have you determined which of the 146 tell us the guards are there to enforce (as you essentially put it)?
Click to expand...
Would have to look up the context of each one. You're good at that. Maybe you can.
 
Cameron143 said:
All men doesn't mean every single person ever born. If that was the meaning the phrase all mankind would have been used. All men just means people out of every nation, tribe, kindred, and tongue.
Click to expand...
Please explain why Romana 8,30 is in the past tense.

The point of my reply was not John 12.
Do you understand why I posted John 12?

And

All men
Means
All men
 
Cameron143 said:
Would have to look up the context of each one. You're good at that. Maybe you can.
Click to expand...
Called could also refer to be called for a specific purpose.
Called to be a missionary.
It was his calling.

And it's up to you to support your statement,,,,

Call means to invite.
 
Cameron143 said:
All men doesn't mean every single person ever born. If that was the meaning the phrase all mankind would have been used. All men just means people out of every nation, tribe, kindred, and tongue.
Click to expand...
Doesn't agree with John 3,16
 
Toknow said:
Please explain why Romana 8,30 is in the past tense.

The point of my reply was not John 12.
Do you understand why I posted John 12?

And

All men
Means
All men
Click to expand...
Actually it doesn't. If means all men, what about women? Again, it would say...all mankind.

I answered why the past tense. I even posted 4 verses where God used past tense...Isaiah 53:5, Ephesians 2:6, etc
 
Toknow said:
Called could also refer to be called for a specific purpose.
Called to be a missionary.
It was his calling.

And it's up to you to support your statement,,,,

Call means to invite.
Click to expand...
I did exactly that with Romans 8:30.
 
studier said:
Armed guards?
Click to expand...
Can be literal or metaphorical. But a summons is different than a simple invitation. A summons has authority behind it and the power to enforce it. This doesn't mean negative force or coercion is used to force a result. But force is applied to gain audience.
 
Cameron143 said:
Actually it doesn't. If means all men, what about women? Again, it would say...all mankind.

I answered why the past tense. I even posted 4 verses where God used past tense...Isaiah 53:5, Ephesians 2:6, etc
Click to expand...
Ok
So Romans 8,30 IS speaking about the past OT saints.

Thanks for agreeing.
 
Cameron143 said:
Can be literal or metaphorical. But a summons is different than a simple invitation. A summons has authority behind it and the power to enforce it. This doesn't mean negative force or coercion is used to force a result. But force is applied to gain audience.
Click to expand...
Sounds convoluted.
Calvinism always does.
 
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