What REALLY is Faith That Scripture Upholds?

[rewriter]

You're droning on about nothing. Either the RC is right or it's wrong not based on what people say but what Scripture says.

And you seem to be judging the RCC based on a Protestant understanding of what scripture says, not on an RCC understanding. How do you KNOW, not assume but know, which understanding is correct, or as I suspect, maybe both miss, one to one side and the other to the opposite side. A very small initial error can grow quite large over a few hundred years.

 

[studier]

studier, you know how much I love you right now?
I'm kind speechless. I never thought I would feel this way when I heard something like that again.

I recognize the word from his teachings.
He always said the Hebrew had only two words for faith, both pictorial.

1) the running to the shelter of a mother birds wings. Emphasis on the continued running.

2) The leaning on a staff with all your weight behind it. Emphasis on the all the Weight put in a state of trust on the staff.

I remember the word Amenu from all his teachings. But the AI kept misspelling it. It's Emunah.

Please don't tell me that came from an AI.
Who wrote that!

Don't know much about the teacher or the video, but the content IMO was good. I heard a couple things that gave me pause, but overall I thought it was a good presentation.

The only thing I'd say re: surrender is what we were discussing a while back. It's not that it doesn't contain some truth since we were all His enemies, but there is so much more to pisteuo than this because as the video says, it's the Greek word representing the Hebrew Emunah which has a very rich meaning as used in the Hebrew Writings. The video's focus on covenant loyalty IMO was well done and ties into other vital words like [English] love and lovingkindness which end up overlapping in the sense of loyalty and allegiance. The issue for the ones oversensitive re: 'works' is that these words end up speaking of living in a covenant relationship where both God and men are doing their respective parts as God specifies. The part(s) of the video that essentially boiled it all down to to 'faithfulness' is the part to ponder.

 

[Watchman22]

Don't know much about the teacher or the video, but the content IMO was good. I heard a couple things that gave me pause, but overall I thought it was a good presentation.

The only thing I'd say re: surrender is what we were discussing a while back. It's not that it doesn't contain some truth since we were all His enemies, but there is so much more to pisteuo than this because as the video says, it's the Greek word representing the Hebrew Emunah which has a very rich meaning as used in the Hebrew Writings. The video's focus on covenant loyalty IMO was well done and ties into other vital words like [English] love and lovingkindness which end up overlapping in the sense of loyalty and allegiance. The issue for the ones oversensitive re: 'works' is that these words end up speaking of living in a covenant relationship where both God and men are doing their respective parts as God specifies. The part(s) of the video that essentially boiled it all down to to 'faithfulness' is the part to ponder.

Is there any used materials left over from the carnage of our first interaction to rebuild a new one? There's some things I'd like to say in private, but I'm waiting for my PM privilege to start up. If the answer is yes and you have PM privilege, send me a PM.

 

[Watchman22]

Although we can trust the scriptures in English, it's also of value to discover the deeper meanings of key words throughout scripture in contrast to Westernized Christianity.

MM

Hey MM,
Could you tell me where you found this video?
Who wrote it? Please don't tell me it was an AI.

 

[studier]

Hey MM,
Could you tell me where you found this video?
Who wrote it? Please don't tell me it was an AI.

You can go to the YouTube site by hitting the link at the bottom left of the video. I did not see anything that says who is doing these videos.

One thing I'd say is that one decent video does not mean all of them are, so be cautious.

BTW, this type of content re: emunah is not unique to this video. Search for scholarly articles re: emunah and Hebrew concepts of faith, or ask AI to do it for you. Just be discerning of all that you read.

 

[GWH]

You're droning on about nothing. Either the RC is right or it's wrong not based on what people say but what Scripture says.

No, YOU are disagreeing with the American RCs I know, including Steve Bannon and Royce White on RAV, who disbelieve in papalism.
You also are ignoring me saying that I also did not suggest the SBC is all wrong just because it has the wrong view of the P in TULIP.
I will also admit that part of what I believe is wrong, because no one is perfect, but I am open to amending my understanding.

 

[Nedsk]

And you seem to be judging the RCC based on a Protestant understanding of what scripture says, not on an RCC understanding. How do you KNOW, not assume but know, which understanding is correct, or as I suspect, maybe both miss, one to one side and the other to the opposite side. A very small initial error can grow quite large over a few hundred years.

I know faith alone is not correct.

 

[Nedsk]

No, YOU are disagreeing with the American RCs I know, including Steve Bannon and Royce White on RAV, who disbelieve in papalism.
You also are ignoring me saying that I also did not suggest the SBC is all wrong just because it has the wrong view of the P in TULIP.
I will also admit that part of what I believe is wrong, because no one is perfect, but I am open to amending my understanding.

If part of what you believe is wrong it would be wise to abandon that understanding

 

[GWH]

If part of what you believe is wrong it would be wise to abandon that understanding

Yes, as a truthseeker that is what I do as soon as I realize it is wrong.
Do you the same?

 

[Nedsk]

Yes, as a truthseeker that is what I do as soon as I realize it is wrong.
Do you the same?

I do but I need actual evidence.

 

[rewriter]

I do but I need actual evidence.

Needing evidence is good, but also be aware that humans are subject to confirmation bias which means that they become so committed to a specific position that no amount of contrary evidence, no matter how sound, can change their position. You need to be actively open to contrary evidence not automatically rejecting it.

 

[Nedsk]

Needing evidence is good, but also be aware that humans are subject to confirmation bias which means that they become so committed to a specific position that no amount of contrary evidence, no matter how sound, can change their position. You need to be actively open to contrary evidence not automatically rejecting it.

I don't automatically reject anything but I won't have people tell me that what I'm reading doesnt mean what it clearly says.

 

[GWH]

I do but I need actual evidence.

And what we view as evidence is our fallible opinion.

 

[Nedsk]

And what we view as evidence is our fallible opinion.

Not when I read it from Scripture. God gave me a braind that I use quite often.

 

[GWH]

Not when I read it from Scripture. God gave me a braind that I use quite often.

Yes, God gave us a brain and the ability to learn from GW, but that does not mean we have infallible opinions.
Scripture says we must walk by faith, not by certainty (2Cor. 5:7).

 

[Nedsk]

Yes, God gave us a brain and the ability to learn from GW, but that does not mean we have infallible opinions.
Scripture says we must walk by faith, not by certainty (2Cor. 5:7).

No one claims to have infallible opinions. You're just talking to talk now.

 

[Inquisitor]

It's been apoximately 500 years since William Tindale realized he couldn't translate the most important word in the Greek texts into the English language.

What is the most important word in the NT?
It's the Greek word "pisteuo."
I'm aware of the word "Grace", but Grace avails nothing if pisteuo isn't fulfilled correctly.

Why couldn't Tindale correctly translate "pisteuo" into the English language?

It's because the English language has no word to translate pisteuo. The English language has no corresponding verb to the noun "Faith" like the Greek does.

What is the Greek word pisteuo?

"Pisteuo" is the corresponding verb to the noun "pistis". The Greek word "pistis" is where we get our English word "Faith".

Where is the corresponding verb to the noun "Faith" in the English language?

There is none! The words the English language should have had for Tindale and the other translators are "faithe", "faither", and "faithing". But those words are not in the English language and weren't available for Tindale and the others translators.

So what did William Tindale do?

Tindale had to make a choice, stop his translation into the English language, or choose a different word. He decided to use the words "believe", "believer", and "believing", 248 times.
Gods word specifically warns against anyone adding or subtracting from the primary texts. Even if done unintentionally, in my opinion he has laid the foundation for the wide path Jesus warns us about. Here we are, 500 years later, and most called out ones are standing on the mistranslated words "believe", "believer", and "believing". Thinking, if i simply "believe " in what Jesus said, did, and promised, I will immediately receive the Grace deposit or Holy Spirit. That's not the correct response to the call of the Father required to start, maintain, and complete the salvation journey here on earth.

Here are some facts about the mistranslated words believe, believer, and believing.
1) These words are not in the Greek language. Our teachers, churches, Bible colleges, and internet claim that if i look up the word "believe" in the Greek, it means "pisteuo". Pisteuo was mistranslated into the English, and then stamped back out onto the Greek. The Greek does not acknowledge a state of being where one is only " believing" in something. In the Greek, we are either moving towards something, "pisteuo", or the reverse action, moving away from something, "Apisteuo". No neutral or middle ground in the Greek

2) The mistranslated words believe, believing, and believer change the "object of faith" from a one on one personal relationship with God, a real living person, to what He did, said, and promised. Gods word cannot be the object of faith, it must be the living person.

3) Pisteuo is a verb, an action word that encompasses 3 parts. A specific act (the personal surrender to Him) based upon a belief (that he will accept the surrendered life) sustained by confidence (by making all the 100s of daily decisions supporting the fact our lives are not ours anymore, but His now.) "Believing " is only one of the 3, taken on its own is error.

4) Believe, believer, and believing are corresponding verbs to the noun "belief", not the noun "faith".

5) The definition of "believe " is "an opinion held in good faith without the necessary reference to its proof."

6) The Strongs gives the disclaimer "pisteuo means not just to believe. The Vines definition of pisteuo, "A personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender. " This is not a one time surrender, it's surrendering every day, all day if necessary, making a better one each day. This is the perfecting process. Saints are not people who are perfect, Saints are candidates for perfection. God is not looking a perfect surrendered life, simply a genuine one.

7) God sees us from A to Z, "A" being what He wants first. (And that's someone who will continuously surrender their lives to Him, and live a life that supports that surrender. )
We see God from Z to A, "Z" being what we want first. ( And that's His Grace deposit and His promises. )

Salvation is by Grace "through faith," (faithing) through a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender.

You put the cart before the horse.

Pistis is a noun and not a verb.

Your alternate translation of Pistis into faithing and your usage of faithing to describe Pistis is incorrect.

Faithing is a verb and Pistis is a noun and your translation is erroneous.

 

[rewriter]

I don't automatically reject anything but I won't have people tell me that what I'm reading doesnt mean what it clearly says.

What something clearly says is not always obvious. If you read just what scripture says in English, then you are reading what someone else wants you to read. Sometimes there are meanings in the original Greek, Hebrew or Aramaic that are missed in translation. And then there are disputes about what is actually being said, I have seen different editions of the same version of the Bible that contradict each other, one version including the word "not" in a verse while the other edition did not include the negative. If you read only one edition you might miss such a point and thus not realize the uncertainty about what is "clearly written".

 

[NightTwister]

What something clearly says is not always obvious. If you read just what scripture says in English, then you are reading what someone else wants you to read. Sometimes there are meanings in the original Greek, Hebrew or Aramaic that are missed in translation. And then there are disputes about what is actually being said, I have seen different editions of the same version of the Bible that contradict each other, one version including the word "not" in a verse while the other edition did not include the negative. If you read only one edition you might miss such a point and thus not realize the uncertainty about what is "clearly written".

I'm so happy we have some guy on the internet to help us with translations done by many language experts.

 

[Watchman22]

You put the cart before the horse.

Pistis is a noun and not a verb.

Your alternate translation of Pistis into faithing and your usage of faithing to describe Pistis is incorrect.

Faithing is a verb and Pistis is a noun and your translation is erroneous.

Pistis is the noun, pisteuo is the corresponding verb, it's repeated many times in the Op.
Slow down when you read.