What does Jesus mean about mansions?

[rewriter]

Unfortunately God does not reveal truth with visions or dreams (Heb 1.1-2; 2.1-4) any more. He often revealed his will with visions and dreams to the prophets in the OT, but that ceased with the coming of a new group, the Church (in the Apostolic Age).

God does not change. To claim that God's revelations cease at some point in time has been claimed many times by many people, yet scripture is not clear that such happens. In fact, according to Acts, dreams continued to be means of revelation, as does the book of Revelation, into the Apostolic era and Paul references the gift of prophesy.

Now whether any given dream or revelation is from God or from some demonic source is a much different matter, just as the question of NDE's offering insights, being delusions or just what is.

 

[EddieM]

God does not change. To claim that God's revelations cease at some point in time has been claimed many times by many people, yet scripture is not clear that such happens. In fact, according to Acts, dreams continued to be means of revelation, as does the book of Revelation, into the Apostolic era and Paul references the gift of prophesy.

Now whether any given dream or revelation is from God or from some demonic source is a much different matter, just as the question of NDE's offering insights, being delusions or just what is.

Who determines if the revelation is from God or Satan? You? How can we know? I say I got a revelation from God who told me that all revelation has ceased until the Jewish dispensation resumes (the final 7 years of the Jewish Dispensation.) Now, prove me wrong. It can't be done. Because maybe our interpretation of the Bible is incorrect or we can't figure out the proper translation. If that happens, then we can't determine which interpretation is the right one and which is the wrong one.

To a Roman Catholic, Mary is a Virgin.

The Church and Authority:
Roman Catholics believe their Church is the original, holy, and apostolic Church founded by Jesus on Peter, the first pope. The Pope is considered the infallible teacher on matters of faith and morals. To the RC, this is revelation from God, but I say it is NOT revelation from God. Which is it? (Cut and Pasted from "what do the roman catholics believe" on Google)

 

[rewriter]

Who determines if the revelation is from God or Satan? You? How can we know? I say I got a revelation from God who told me that all revelation has ceased until the Jewish dispensation resumes (the final 7 years of the Jewish Dispensation.) Now, prove me wrong. It can't be done. Because maybe our interpretation of the Bible is incorrect or we can't figure out the proper translation. If that happens, then we can't determine which interpretation is the right one and which is the wrong one.

To a Roman Catholic, Mary is a Virgin.

The Church and Authority:
Roman Catholics believe their Church is the original, holy, and apostolic Church founded by Jesus on Peter, the first pope. The Pope is considered the infallible teacher on matters of faith and morals. To the RC, this is revelation from God, but I say it is NOT revelation from God. Which is it? (Cut and Pasted from "what do the roman catholics believe" on Google)

One can always claim whatever they wish to. Calling on someone to back up a statement with scripture is a common response in these forums, but the question of whose interpretation of scripture tends to get ignored.

A related issue is, what does one do when scripture differs with well-documented history and archeology? It does happen, yet I can easily find people who will argue that scripture is correct and the well-documented history and archeology is in error.

People will twist their logic into pretzels to defend what they want to defend, or have been taught that they must defend, but is that what God truly wants or does He want us to seek out the truth? Each person must decide for themselves. I choose to seek out the truth as best I am able.

 

[EddieM]

Who determines if the revelation is from God or Satan? You? How can we know? I say I got a revelation from God who told me that all revelation has ceased until the Jewish dispensation resumes (the final 7 years of the Jewish Dispensation.) Now, prove me wrong. It can't be done. Because maybe our interpretation of the Bible is incorrect or we can't figure out the proper translation. If that happens, then we can't determine which interpretation is the right one and which is the wrong one.

To a Roman Catholic, Mary is a Virgin.

The Church and Authority:
Roman Catholics believe their Church is the original, holy, and apostolic Church founded by Jesus on Peter, the first pope. The Pope is considered the infallible teacher on matters of faith and morals. To the RC, this is revelation from God, but I say it is NOT revelation from God. Which is it? (Cut and Pasted from "what do the roman catholics believe" on Google)

One can always claim whatever they wish to. Calling on someone to back up a statement with scripture is a common response in these forums, but the question of whose interpretation of scripture tends to get ignored.

A related issue is, what does one do when scripture differs with well-documented history and archeology? It does happen, yet I can easily find people who will argue that scripture is correct and the well-documented history and archeology is in error.

People will twist their logic into pretzels to defend what they want to defend, or have been taught that they must defend, but is that what God truly wants or does He want us to seek out the truth? Each person must decide for themselves. I choose to seek out the truth as best I am able.

Philosophically and Logically your proposition supports relativism, the secular way to arrive at Truth. It is saying the truth is, according to your definition, to be determined by each individual. Today, it is popularized in the phrase "your truth, and my truth." Truth is absolute, it is not dependent on who is seeking it or how one defines it.

 

[rewriter]

Both the "secular" and the "Christian" approaches to faith require us to accept relative truth. Just consider the variety of opinions in this forum that people claim are true. An absolute truth would be singular, not multiple variations on a theme as we see here that are all presented as "truth". The more telling solution is to look at how one seeks to approach truth, if the truth is predefined and the data is adjusted to meet the "truth" that is one approach, the other approach is to allow the data to determine what is true, even if it goes against presuppositions.

 

[Godsgood]

I heard a pastor once. He preaches John 14:2 to his members.
He said: The mansions in John 14:2 are allocated to the pastors when they get to heaven.
Yes, he said pastors will stay in the mansions while the regular members will stay in the house of God.
It seems like mansions are rewards for them like a VIP.

But what I discern right now, that mansions are placed in the house of God by God so that God will use them to save people.

Is it relevant that when Jesus mentioned John 14:2 he is speaking in Parables?
MARK 4:34
34 But without a parable spake he not unto them: and when they were alone, he expounded all things to his disciples.

And so his Disciples ask him why he is speaking in Parables.
Jesus purpose is to test the people. Despite people very clear understanding in the words of God if they can humble themselves and admit they couldn't understand it because Jesus is Speaking in Parables like his Disciples did.
MATTHEW 13:10-16
10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.

Like a test given by Jesus to the Jews when he entered in a literal physical Temple.
JOHN 2:14-16
14 And found in the temple those that sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the changers of money sitting:
15 And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables;
16 And said unto them that sold doves, Take these things hence; make not my Father's house an house of merchandise.

And Jesus gave the test if the Jews will believe that he is speaking in Parables.
JOHN 2:18-19
18 Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?
19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

Unfortunately, the Jews did not believe and they lean in their own understanding about the Temple. For them Jesus is not Speaking in Parables.
JOHN 2:20
20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?

But the Disciples of Jesus, at first they thought that Jesus is referring to literal temple also.
JOHN 2:17
17 And his disciples remembered that it was written, The zeal of thine house hath eaten me up.

But later on they believed that Jesus is Speaking in Parables.
JOHN 2:22
22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.

So Jesus revealed the truth to his Disciples that Jesus is referring to his body.
JOHN 2:21
21 But he spake of the temple of his body.

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

Unfortunately God does not reveal truth with visions or dreams (Heb 1.1-2; 2.1-4) any more. He often revealed his will with visions and dreams to the prophets in the OT, but that ceased with the coming of a new group, the Church (in the Apostolic Age).

God also gave each of us His Holy Spirit when we got saved. So that God can tell us directly. We just have to pay attention.


🕊

 

[Dino246]

Is it relevant that when Jesus mentioned John 14:2 he is speaking in Parables?
MARK 4:34
34 But without a parable spake he not unto them: and when they were alone, he expounded all things to his disciples.

No, it is not relevant, because in John 14:2, Jesus was not speaking in parables.

 

[Godsgood]

No, it is not relevant, because in John 14:2, Jesus was not speaking in parables.

No, it is not relevant, because in John 14:2, Jesus was not speaking in parables.

If in John 14:2 Jesus is not speaking in parables, how do you put literal physical mansions in a literal physical house?

 

[Godsgood]

Is it relevant that when Jesus mentioned John 14:2 he is speaking in Parables?
MARK 4:34
34 But without a parable spake he not unto them: and when they were alone, he expounded all things to his disciples.

And so his Disciples ask him why he is speaking in Parables.
Jesus purpose is to test the people. Despite people very clear understanding in the words of God if they can humble themselves and admit they couldn't understand it because Jesus is Speaking in Parables like his Disciples did.
MATTHEW 13:10-16
10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.

Like a test given by Jesus to the Jews when he entered in a literal physical Temple.
JOHN 2:14-16
14 And found in the temple those that sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the changers of money sitting:
15 And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables;
16 And said unto them that sold doves, Take these things hence; make not my Father's house an house of merchandise.

And Jesus gave the test if the Jews will believe that he is speaking in Parables.
JOHN 2:18-19
18 Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?
19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

Unfortunately, the Jews did not believe and they lean in their own understanding about the Temple. For them Jesus is not Speaking in Parables.
JOHN 2:20
20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?

But the Disciples of Jesus, at first they thought that Jesus is referring to literal temple also.
JOHN 2:17
17 And his disciples remembered that it was written, The zeal of thine house hath eaten me up.

But later on they believed that Jesus is Speaking in Parables.
JOHN 2:22
22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.

So Jesus revealed the truth to his Disciples that Jesus is referring to his body.
JOHN 2:21
21 But he spake of the temple of his body.

Another verses in which Jesus demonstrated that he is Speaking in Parables in Matthew Chapter 16 when the Disciples forgot to purchase a bread.
MATTHEW 16:5
5 And when his disciples were come to the other side, they had forgotten to take bread.

Then Jesus told them:
MATTHEW 16:6
6 Then Jesus said unto them, Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.

In the understanding of the Disciples, it is very clear for them that Jesus is referring to source of yeast that make the bread rise.
MATTHEW 16:7
7 And they reasoned among themselves, saying, It is because we have taken no bread.

So Jesus rebuked them and he reminded them that what they forgot is Jesus is Speaking in Parables.
MATTHEW 16:8 & 11
8 Which when Jesus perceived, he said unto them, O ye of little faith, why reason ye among yourselves, because ye have brought no bread?
11 How is it that ye do not understand that I spake it not to you concerning bread, that ye should beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees?

Then Jesus revealed the truth to them that the Leaven of the Bread means Wrong Doctrines
MATTHEW 16:12
12 Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.

The truth is Jesus is from heaven.
Therefore he is speaking in Parables or Heavenly Language (spiritual meaning).

We are on Earth.
Therefore we are speaking Earthly Language.

With the demonstration of Lord Jesus, He is using Earthly Language or Earthly words but he is referring to Heavenly meaning.

 

[TMS]

I can't see any reason why Jesus doesn't mean what He said.
Joh 14:2-3
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Exactly what the mansion is like, I don't know, but the point is that Jesus is preparing a PLACE for us. The physical places can be created in a few seconds but the access to these beautiful homes is created by the salvation that is found in Jesus. As our saviour Jesus is making a way for us to access heaven and dwell with Himself and the Father. HE IS THE WAY

When He comes again the saved will be taken back to heaven.

1 Thes 4:16,17
Mat 5:3,10, 12
Rev 19:1

 

[PaulThomson]

Unfortunately God does not reveal truth with visions or dreams (Heb 1.1-2; 2.1-4) any more. He often revealed his will with visions and dreams to the prophets in the OT, but that ceased with the coming of a new group, the Church (in the Apostolic Age).

Then why did Peter cite Hosea predicting that the among disciples the young men would see visions and the old men would dream dreams. Acts 2

 

[Dino246]

If in John 14:2 Jesus is not speaking in parables, how do you put literal physical mansions in a literal physical house?

“I” don’t. “I” didn’t say it.

Just because it is not a parable doesn’t mean it is necessarily literal in the way you think.

 

[Dino246]

The truth is Jesus is from heaven.
Therefore he is speaking in Parables or Heavenly Language (spiritual meaning).

We are on Earth.
Therefore we are speaking Earthly Language.

With the demonstration of Lord Jesus, He is using Earthly Language or Earthly words but he is referring to Heavenly meaning.

Nothing in Scripture says or suggests that parables are “heavenly” or “spiritual” language. Nothing in Scripture says or suggests that plain language is “earthly”.

Nothing in Scripture says or suggests that every time Jesus speaks, we should assume it is a parable.

You have taken a few specific passages and erroneously applied them to everything.

 

[Mem]

I'll be having my coffee on the mezzanine.

 

[rewriter]

Nothing in Scripture says or suggests that parables are “heavenly” or “spiritual” language. Nothing in Scripture says or suggests that plain language is “earthly”.

Nothing in Scripture says or suggests that every time Jesus speaks, we should assume it is a parable.

You have taken a few specific passages and erroneously applied them to everything.

We in the Western world view, a predominate one in Christianity, tend to think in Greco-Roman logic evolved from Plato and Aristotle, and this is good, for some projects involving systematic approaches. However, there is also Eastern logic which uses imagery to make a person think and develop insights, and this is good for other projects. Judah,, in Jesus's time was still largely Eastern in its logic and thus used image-based logic requiring thought and insight.

If one read Job as Eastern logic, which makes sense as ancient Israel was more oriented towards the east than the west, it seems to be suggesting that humanity should explore the world and the rest of creation in order to learn about God rather than read words and claim that the words were all that we need to know.

Parables do not seem designed to teach facts, but rather to make us think.

 

[Dino246]

We in the Western world view, a predominate one in Christianity, tend to think in Greco-Roman logic evolved from Plato and Aristotle, and this is good, for some projects involving systematic approaches. However, there is also Eastern logic which uses imagery to make a person think and develop insights, and this is good for other projects. Judah,, in Jesus's time was still largely Eastern in its logic and thus used image-based logic requiring thought and insight.

If one read Job as Eastern logic, which makes sense as ancient Israel was more oriented towards the east than the west, it seems to be suggesting that humanity should explore the world and the rest of creation in order to learn about God rather than read words and claim that the words were all that we need to know.

Parables do not seem designed to teach facts, but rather to make us think.

Logic is logic; there is no “Eastern” or “Western” to it. There are different ways of processing and interpreting information though.

Jesus’ parables were specifically designed to hide truth from the general population. Even the disciples usually did not understand the meaning. Occasionally the Pharisees saw it.

The issue here is that the OP of this thread does not understand how parables are used in Scripture. He has applied a few limited-scope statements to all of Scripture. He then pushes his (mis)interpretation of Scripture as the “divinely revealed truth” while denigrating everything else as “man’s thinking”.

 

[Psalm1]

It was actually a powerful dream it started with me being outside with other people and a portal in the sky opened up as if the sky was ripped open and suddenly we all had wings made of crimson fire and flew into the portal as soon as we entered we were on a slide made of living water like a water slide and the absolute joy we had was unlike anything I could ever imagine we entered into a place that was not of this world it was night time thee and there was a cabin there and Jesus was waiting there for us everyone was enjoying being with him and I kept looking for Jesus because I wanted to ask him if I could keep my promise to him that promise was that I would serve in the tribulation but he kept avoiding me for some reason as if he knew what I was going to ask him

Soon after tis we were to go into this forest that was there to be trained and in this forest wee these creatures that reminded me of peacocks but instead of feathers they had silky fur and had eye bal;s on their tail feathers at first I was nervous but one of them came to comfort me it had a very motherly kind of nature to it and we were trained in this forest.

We came out of this forest and was morning there and there was a man holding a book in his hands that had every persons name and life in it he opened the book and told me I was strong fiery strong he said and suddenly I was I had strength I have never known before and then once this happened a portal opened in the sky and demons came flooding through it along with a giant face of a bull I tod the bull to come at me but it wouldn't so I instead went to him I flew into the sky ignoring the smaller demons and punched the bull super hard.

once this battle was over we were told to search for seven holy relics and so I seaerched this new world for them at one point I came to a place where once again it was night time but there were these mansions there with people living in them and I found one of the relics on one of the balconies there it was a rose made of ruby

then the dream ended but I have had other visitations of heaven one in which I saw a giant bronze tree with seven branches on each branch was a lamp one color of the rainbow the flames were different sizes some of them bruned slightly as if fizzling out others were growing and one was burning bright and strong

I saw also this tree had a giant root and i followed the root and came to a door and entered into it I was then in a place where everyone was worshipping God the absolute wonder and joy of worship was like night and day here but I wanted to stay there forever and worship God but I knew I was to continue following the roots so I followed and came to a place where it was night time and it qwas peraceful there was silky deep green grass creatures thete made out of stares and lion and a small child were cuddling together there I continued to follow the roots and saw they were gettting thinner and thinner I came then to a place where it was day almost like it was fall season there the sun was a face of a lion and there was wheat and chaff all over this place

The lion gaver a mighty earth shattering roar and the chaff was blown away from the wheat where only the wheat remained I then continued to follow the root to a giant red door crimsong and gold colored and it had hebrew letters on it there was a presence behind this door and I said to myself I know this presence and instantly opened the door running through with jy and ran straight into the arms of Jesus I tackled him and buried my face into his arms in tears of joy.

after a while of this he had a throne to sit in and I was a small child compared to him he gave me agolden cup with wine in it and I drank it then he took me to a giant library where every persons life story was and there was also a giant mirror there that lead to our world he hugged me and told me to go through but I was devastated because I knew it meant I had to go back I begged him to let me stay but he held me close and whispered you must go back and tell everyone of this for I am coming soon and I told him I hated that word because soon is such a vague timing but he smiled and laughed and said soon means soon and he sent me through the mirror and I awoke

Wow!!!!!!

Can I borrow that mirror?
Lol

 

[Psalm1]

Who determines if the revelation is from God or Satan? You? How can we know? I say I got a revelation from God who told me that all revelation has ceased until the Jewish dispensation resumes (the final 7 years of the Jewish Dispensation.) Now, prove me wrong. It can't be done. Because maybe our interpretation of the Bible is incorrect or we can't figure out the proper translation. If that happens, then we can't determine which interpretation is the right one and which is the wrong one.

To a Roman Catholic, Mary is a Virgin.

The Church and Authority:
Roman Catholics believe their Church is the original, holy, and apostolic Church founded by Jesus on Peter, the first pope. The Pope is considered the infallible teacher on matters of faith and morals. To the RC, this is revelation from God, but I say it is NOT revelation from God. Which is it? (Cut and Pasted from "what do the roman catholics believe" on Google)

The word confirms the spirit.

I can not imagine a powerless walk or even taking such a position.
It is as if the cessationists imagine there are 2 Holy Spirits.
One dead
One weak one left.

Dear Lord, what has happened??????

 

[Psalm1]

A church called "yousta"

God yousta do miracles.
God yousta have power.
We yousta have apostles.

A sleepy safe place, where you can come in, snooze, go home, ...repeat.
Yousta fellowship.

"We ran that Holy Spirit out years ago. We be mental!!!"