Loss of salvation???

[Genez]

Their "wrath" is laughable!

Nobody is scared of the devil's crowd.




Jesus paid for the sins of the entire world, but His Word on the Cross is only applicable to those that get born again and turn from their sin.

Once we get born again... if one sins, they must confess and forsake their sin in order to have mercy because If a person does not forsake and confess their sins, then they are still on the hook for their sins see: Proverbs 28:13 and 1 John 1:9

This is due to the FACT that God's Kingdom is built upon seedtime and harvest

Mark 4:26 (see Genesis 1:11 also)
And he said, So is the kingdom of God, as if a man should cast seed into the ground

When we get born again our past sins are forgiving and we have a clean slate.

Romans 3:25
Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God

But, going forward if we sin we must forsake and confess our sins to obtain mercy and be cleansed of those sins.
(see Proverbs 28:13 and 1 John 1:9)

No one condemned to the Lake of Fire will have his sins mentioned.
Their sins do not send them. For their sins had been already judged in Christ.

How will they be judged?
The book of "works" will be opened.
It will be shown that what ever good works they did?
Will not be able to equal the perfect work of Christ.

Revelation 20:11-13

Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works.

The book of works will be searched.
Only one work will not be found with the condemned.
That one single work?
Note: (not the same as works)

Do not labor for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to everlasting life,
which the Son of Man will give you, because God the Father has set His seal on Him.”​

​

Then they said to Him, “What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?”​

​

Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God,
that you believe in Him whom He sent.”​

John 6:27-29

Surprising!

Isn't it?

Works is a man made religious system of prescribed mandates that one must do as to earn the approval of God.

With the one work that God approves of?
"Believing," we simply find ourselves doing in response to the truth.


. . . . . . .

 

[Genez]

You’ve pretty much taken that spot already!

The religious leaders who brought Jesus to be crucified were jealous of Him.

Even Pontius Pilate saw through them and knew that to be the case. - Matthew 27:18

 

[rogerg]

The Son is not forcing anybody out.

Those that end up being rejected cause themselves to be rejected because they rejected the Lord and turned away from Him

[1Pe 2:7-8 KJV]
7 Unto you therefore which believe [he is] precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, [even to them] which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.

[1Th 5:9 KJV] 9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

[Rom 9:15-16, 18-25 KJV]
15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16 So then [it is] not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. ...
18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will [have mercy], and whom he will he hardeneth.
19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed [it], Why hast thou made me thus?
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22 [What] if God, willing to shew [his] wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.

 

[Genez]

Seems to me that Paul wanted Timothy to preach, even when great opposition was present. Wouldn't Paul say the same to us? or no?

It is still written in the Bible. No?

 

[Kroogz]

I acknowledge that God wants all to be saved. But I wonder where it says that God provided a way for all to become born again? I don't think that is a Biblical idea.


I am not a Calvinist

John 3:16

1 John 2:2~~and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Acts 16:31

It's amazing how the calvies/religion and the Armins/Catholics/religion will Avoid all the clear and simple MILK.

John 5:24


John 11:26
and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?”


Acts 16:31~~Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved, you and your household....God provides a way for all.

 

[Genez]

Asked and answered.

You've been debating such things. Now you're bowing out?

Was that an answer?

Here's the question again.


Can a person who became regenerated, after believing in Jesus Christ, end up losing his salvation?

Forget the footnotes, please.
Just a simple, "yes."
Or, "no."

 

[Genez]

Projection, again.

You know the term, I see.
But, fail the correct way to use it.

 

[rogerg]

Acts 16:31~~Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved, you and your household....God provides a way for all.

Why does the verse say, "shall be saved" as-in the future tense, and just not "saved' as-in the present tense, if their belief is what would save them?

 

[Roger316]

You may claim to not be a calvinist, but you have been influenced by calvinist doctrine and scripture twisting

Do you intend to prove your assertions or are you satisfied with saying random stuff?

If you knew your Bible better you would know the answer:

Romans 5:17,18
For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

A universalist—in the theological sense—refers to someone who believes that all people will ultimately be saved. Do you believe this? If not, and I don't think you do, then what do these passages mean?

What's your point? Is it ALL men or just those who have faith in Jesus?

NOTE - Romans 5:17,18 is clearly telling us that the free gift came upon all men agreeing with Titus 2:11,12

Titus 2:11,12
For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to ALL men,
Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

Okay, the grace appeared to all men. So what?

1 John 2:2
Jesus is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that ALL should come to repentance.

2 Corinthians 5:19,20
To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto Himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

Acts 17:30
And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth ALL men every where to repent:

John 12:32
And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw ALL men unto me.

Hebrews 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that He by the grace of God should taste death for EVERY man.

John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave His only begotten Son, that WHOSOEVER believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

What do proof texts get you?

 

[Roger316]

You forgot the Bible teaches gentiles believers have been grafted in to the same tree

What did I say that would lead you to believe that? Is this another random statement?

 

[Roger316]

It is still written in the Bible. No?

Why did you ask that?

 

[Roger316]

John 3:16

1 John 2:2~~and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Acts 16:31

It's amazing how the calvies/religion and the Armins/Catholics/religion will Avoid all the clear and simple MILK.

John 5:24


John 11:26
and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?”


Acts 16:31~~Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved, you and your household....God provides a way for all.

My Bible has more verses between those you cited.

 

[studier]

I removed a boulder from my property today and it will never return.

I was saved today and I will never perish.

The extremes to which some will go to avoid the pure milk........... And common sense.

Common sense apart from grammar. There's a lot of that running around.

I removed a boulder from my property today = Aorist tense

It will not return = Future tense

It will never return = Future tense + an adverb

No perfect tense in this statement.

I removed a boulder from my property today and it is currently not here = Perfect tense.

Same for your saved statement.

The discussion works more like this:

I removed a boulder from my property today and it will never return unless I choose to bring it back.

I removed a boulder from my property today and it is not here right now [but I may bring it back tomorrow]

 

[TruthDefender]

The Son is not forcing anybody out.

Those that end up being rejected cause themselves to be rejected because they rejected the Lord and turned away from Him

2 Timothy 2:12
If we deny Him, He also will deny us

That is written to Christians and it's based on on sowing and reaping where those that sow to the flesh (sin) reap corruption spoken of in Galatians 6:7,8

Those that claim we do not reap what we sow are mocking God.

God put provision in His Word for Christians to be cleansed IF, IF they sinned:

Proverbs 28:13
He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Exactly! The problem is with those OSAS believers who pick and choose verses, and twist some while rejecting the rest.

 

[JayWalker]

No one condemned to the Lake of Fire will have his sins mentioned.
Their sins do not send them. For their sins had been already judged in Christ.

How will they be judged?
The book of "works" will be opened.
It will be shown that what ever good works they did?
Will not be able to equal the perfect work of Christ.

Revelation 20:11-13

Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works.

The book of works will be searched.
Only one work will not be found with the condemned.
That one single work?
Note: (not the same as works)


Do not labor for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to everlasting life,
which the Son of Man will give you, because God the Father has set His seal on Him.”Then they said to Him, “What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?”Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God,
that you believe in Him whom He sent.”
John 6:27-29

Surprising!

Isn't it?

Works is a man made religious system of prescribed mandates that one must do as to earn the approval of God.

With the one work that God approves of?
"Believing," we simply find ourselves doing in response to the truth.

You should have just written one sentence acknowledging you don't accept all the Lord says in His Word and that would have sufficed.

being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.

Yes, they appointed themselves to disobedience by rejecting the Lord.

The Lord did not create any people to be disobedient.

 

[JayWalker]

Do you intend to prove your assertions

God's Word apparently is not good enough for some folks

A universalist—in the theological sense—refers to someone who believes that all people will ultimately be saved. Do you believe this? If not, and I don't think you do, then what do these passages mean?

What's your point? Is it ALL men or just those who have faith in Jesus?

It means God has provided opportunity for all to be saved and this answers your original question when you claimed you did know know where God's Word says he has provided opportunity for all to be saved

Okay, the grace appeared to all men. So what?

It means God has provided opportunity for all to be saved and this answers your original question when you claimed you did know know where God's Word says he has provided opportunity for all to be saved

What do proof texts get you?

These passages show that God has provided opportunity for all to be saved and this answers your original question when you claimed you did know know where God's Word says he has provided opportunity for all to be saved

Glad we got that all cleared up. Please let me know if you need further assistance.

 

[JayWalker]

Is this another random statement?

No, but apparently you just posted another random question

My Bible has more verses between those you cited.

Yeah, he should have just posted a link to the entire Bible as to cover everything.

Exactly! The problem is with those OSAS believers who pick and choose verses, and twist some while rejecting the rest.

Yessir, this is true.

Sometime I refer to their religion as the Security in Sin "gospel" since they believe one can live in sin and still be saved.

 

[studier]

Does everything need to be expressed explicitly?

Unless you want to be able to add or subtract at will, yes.

The full teaching is in the cumulative context but that statement will stand on it's own.

Yes, but don't forget that the discussion is based on an unproven assumption, that a person is saved the moment he believes. If salvation is transactional, then of course a person CAN fail to keep his end of the transaction.

Agree that assumptions are being made. That's why I go back to what's actually stated.

We have been showing that God is saving those whom he set aside for that purpose. The Bible calls them "hagioi" and among the many markers we have to identify the "hagioi" is whether or not a person is born again. In this view, salvation is relational. Is someone a "son" of Abraham? Do they stand to inherit salvation?

Reformed slant.

Is John saying that God gave them permission to become sons? Or is he saying something like, "“God granted them the status, authority, and legal standing to be counted as His sons”?

Read it even in English - right to become

'right' can also mean 'freedom of choice' per BDAG.

 

[studier]

Was that an answer?

Here's the question again.


Can a person who became regenerated, after believing in Jesus Christ, end up losing his salvation?

Forget the footnotes, please.
Just a simple, "yes."
Or, "no."

Can you prove he can't - FROM Scripture, of course?

PS. It'll require you to do some exegesis, so we both know that's not going to happen.

 

[Genez]

Why did you ask that?

I asked because of your question.

"Seems to me that Paul wanted Timothy to preach, even when great opposition was present.
Wouldn't Paul say the same to us? or no?"

Was Scripture concerning a given type of situation, only limited to the one it was originally written to,
when we find ourselves in the same kind of situation?