Loss of salvation???
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T
TruthDefender
Guest
Satan often pits people against others!
Is this all you’ve got? It must be since you can’t defend your doctrine with Scripture!!
Satan often pits people against others!
Is this all you’ve got? It must be since you can’t defend your doctrine with Scripture!!
Oh... I more than can defend with Scripture.
That is why I don't wish to bother.
T
TruthDefender
Guest
If you actually believed Prov 12:1 was relevant then you'd accept God's warnings about losing salvation
You would have to accept ALL that the Lord teaches in His Word though which is of course where you check out
You didn't accept the rest of the Word of God that proves He had provided a way for ALL to be saved?
If you believe He created some people for the sole purpose of going to hell, how do you know you aren't one He has decided will go to hell?
It's always funny to hear from those that believe in limited atonement who never apply that to themselves.
It's always those other people they claim God created to go to hell, never them and their calvinist buddies.
Yep, that's exactly what the OSAS folks are doing - speaking for the devil but playing like they are speaking for the Lord.
They are the tares Jesus warned about so beware of the OSAS people!
All it takes is some twisting eh?
What a weak strawman you have created.
The argument is simply: "we must wait until the Book of Life is opened to know if we're saved".
"because we might fall away" is your attempt at mudding the water.
Is this a real quote or did you make it up? Please cite.
Why not choose to NOT fall away and abide in Christ all the days of your life enduring till then end?
This is the option people embrace that actually go to Heaven.
You're so filled with love of The Spirit. Aye?
While you are acting like you are inviting me outside into an alley for a street fight.
If it's not clear by now how someone here wants discussion of the Word stopped and wants to be interacting like a 5-year old, I'm not sure how it can be made clear enough. I do think God has used him as he said (cc: @Genez) to show us the problem that exists in religious circles today - immaturity at best - possibly something worse - you decide.
Some posts ago I countered what the representation of Free-Grace Dispensationalists here are using to tell us that OSAS is biblical fact:
John is clarifying many things in what we call John's Gospel with what he says in 1John which more than one person I've read has called John's commentary on his own gospel.
So, a few things, and please feel free to challenge anything I write:
The non-OSAS whether Arminian or any other belief should be able to explain this and why it doesn't prove OSAS or Eternal Security.
Those who believe Jesus is the Christ and who value His Word IMO should want to be able to explain this.
At this time I don't think it proves OSAS. I'm willing to be shown why it does, even by some 5-year old who can set aside the antics long enough to present like an adult, let alone a spiritual adult.
Some posts ago I countered what the representation of Free-Grace Dispensationalists here are using to tell us that OSAS is biblical fact:
NAS John 5:24 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
with more of John's writing:
NAS 1 John 3:14 We know that we have passed out of death into life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love abides in death.
What I see John doing is showing us that our Faith - meaning Christianity - is not the simple thing that some would make it out to be, were making it out to be at that time, and are making it out to be even now.John is clarifying many things in what we call John's Gospel with what he says in 1John which more than one person I've read has called John's commentary on his own gospel.
So, a few things, and please feel free to challenge anything I write:
- It was proposed by an OSAS advocate in this thread that the phrase in John5:24 "has passed out of death into life" proves OSAS.
- The verb being translated "has passed" is perfect tense
- This verb is telling us that based upon an action in the past, the current state is one of life from death
- This verb does not tell us this state of life from death will last
- If something is telling us it will last, it's not this verb
- This verb is comparing to the previous verb Jesus used = has eternal life
- Some tell us this is what tells us this state of having life cannot change - because it's eternal
- Some tell us eternal life is more complex a topic and that it being eternal does not say that we are yet eternally in life
- This is part of what @Roger316 and I were beginning to discuss
- This verb is telling us that based upon an action in the past, the current state is one of life from death
- The verb being translated "has passed" is perfect tense
- Then comes 1John3:14:
- John uses the same phrase that Jesus used (except he changes the subject from "he" to "we") - "we have passed out of death into life"
- Same perfect tense - same issues as in John5:24
- But John qualifies this:
- We know we have life because we love the brethren - we love our fellow believers
- Then John solidifies this - he changes from "we" to "he" - "he who does not love remains in death"
- We know we have life because we love the brethren - we love our fellow believers
- John uses the same phrase that Jesus used (except he changes the subject from "he" to "we") - "we have passed out of death into life"
- So:
- Why does John not just repeat what Jesus said?
- Jesus said the man who hears and believes has eternal life
- John says the man who doesn't love remains in death
- Why does John not just repeat what Jesus said?
The non-OSAS whether Arminian or any other belief should be able to explain this and why it doesn't prove OSAS or Eternal Security.
Those who believe Jesus is the Christ and who value His Word IMO should want to be able to explain this.
At this time I don't think it proves OSAS. I'm willing to be shown why it does, even by some 5-year old who can set aside the antics long enough to present like an adult, let alone a spiritual adult.
Some stay on baby milk and never get to the meat.
Which would be OK IF they at least stayed on the milk.
But some don't even know what the milk teaches....
they just ignore scripture altogether.
Those that ignore scripture are NOT following Jesus.
If we do not follow Jesus...
we will not be saved.
Salvation requires belief.
Belief entails trusting and doing what is taught.
No trusting the teacher...
No doing what HE taught...
No salvation.
You don't use scripture because it is irrelevant to you.
You place your own tradition before scripture thus making scripture second in importance.
It is first.
John 14:21
21Whoever has my commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves me. And he who loves me will be loved by my Father,
The OSAS club is leading some to hell.
Including those that teach it.
Because it is antiChrist.
It is Anti Christ.
Anti Christ is any person or teaching that is against what Jesus taught.
Jesus taught obedience to HIM.
Jesus taught that we are to ACT on HIS words.
Not the words of some person from very recently that is teaching INCORRECT theoloy and leading some to hell.
You, @Genez, @NightTwister , @Dino246 , @Roger, @HeIsHere and some others on these threads are leading some
down the wide path.
Paul taught that we are to bring back the wanderers in order to save their soul.
The members of the OSAS CLUB are actually leading some to become wanderers.
It would behoove you to learn what Jesus taught in order to save your own soul and stop leading others astray.
Yes.
ASTRAY.
Many verses come to mind.
But you put YOUR traditions first and ignore scripture.
Very dangerous indeed.
James 5:19-20
19 My brethren, if any among you strays from the truth and one turns him back,
20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.
Some on this forum are CAUSING some to wander.
Unfortunately,,,, you do not know what BELIEVE means.
You DO NOT HAVE eternal life
UNLESS
you obey Jesus.
The OSAS crowd writes their things to make one think they are saved but are leading them to damnation instead.
This is one of the main issues with their system.
They have reduced biblical believing - biblical faith - until it has become unbiblical and essentially meaningless.
It is not possible to counter what you post.
OSAS is not biblical.
Even James White clutches at straws and misuses the Greek language to suit his needs.
And I have to read on these threads about how Catholicism teaches tradition !
OSAS is a tradition from hell that was invented by men just a couple of hundred years ago and was NEVER taught in the church.
We should be following God's Word and not traditions.
New teachings are always heretical in nature.
New teachings must be removed from the Christian religion so as to keep it as pure as it was in the beginning.
I applaud all on this thread that understand Christian theology,,,
what Jesus taught,
what He expects from those that CLAIM to be FOLLOWING Him.
Some are NOT beiieving in Him,
Some are NOT following Jesus,
but some man-made tradition that will ultimately lead to damnation.
It goes beyond being meaningless.....this would be bad enough.
Some teachings will lead some to hell because God is a just God and He will be faithful to Himself,,,,
as is stated in
2 Timothy 2:13
13 If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot * deny Himself.
Isn't it interesting that even a simple statement like 2 Tim 2:13 is not understood properly because it has to be forced into their belief system and so its meaning is totally denied.
THEY think that God remaining faithful to HIMSELF really means that God remains faithful to UNBELIEVERS and DISOBEYERS.
Unbelievers and disobeyers will not be part of the faithfulness of God,
who will remain faithful to His PROMISES...
NOT
To disbelievers and disobeyers.
The wrath of God will remain on the disobedient. At any point of their spiritual journey.
John 3:36
Certainly a student of the Greek because I'm a student of the Word as it was written.
Actually the past few days have been interesting for me. Because some here have and are being taught by teachers who ultimately go back to being trained at Dallas Theological Seminary (DTS), I looked back through the history of what's taken place with their Greek and Theology departments and why the change in dealing with Greek verbs.
It was enlightening because I was taught Greek by men who had DTS in their background and who knew what was going on there. Part of the basis for the foundation of the small seminary I attended to learn Greek is that they were preserving the training in languages that DTS apparently was getting away from. I can now better understand what was going on at the time and why I was taught from the more updated scholarship.
What I find is that DTS as well as others faced the fact that they had been teaching Greek based upon an understanding that had been proven wrong. Interestingly, it may well go along with what you say about older teachings. Not long ago Greek scholarship had decided they knew something different about the language and instituted this into Greek training - albeit not without controversy.
In the 1980's through 1990's updated scholarship determined that change to be wrong and turned it back to what as I understand is the more historical view.
So, here we are in a time where some of the remnants of that wrong scholarship are still prominent. They used it to wrongly shore up OSAS. Many have been unwinding it but not OSAS itself - just some of the supposed proof they were using to support OSAS. OSAS theology simply lost one of the legs it had made for itself to stand on.