And of course some of us might prefer 'endurance' for various reasons and might also prefer to just stick with what Jesus specifically states 'holds fast and bears fruit in endurance'.
Next layer(s), dealing with 'believing" & "salvation" from 8:12.
Loss of salvation???
- Thread starter gratefuloneson
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Next layer(s), dealing with 'believing" & "salvation" from 8:12.
The calvinists claim God is sending all the babies to hell, except for little calvinist babies of course.
Calvinist babies being defined by the calvinists as babies born to calvinist parents.
It's the diversion from obedience to God and that fact that it's part of biblical Faith that is the concern.
Christ conquered death. And the roll of the loss of salvation crowd is death. Not eternal life.
You cannot be obedient to God UNTIL you believe the Gospel and are saved.
True obedience comes from being filled with the Spirit and walking in the Spirit.
And If one believes that they can lose salvation they are NOT filled with the Spirit and walking in the Spirit.
Rom 8:16~~The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God,
He does not testify to us that we could possibly be a child of God.
To keep this in context, did you read what I posted re: John6:27-29?
Did you look at Rom10:16?
There are more Scriptures that make the case I'm speaking of.
It's not a tough issue in the Text.
When everyone is born a sinner?
How can one know he is a sinner?
You say he can know he is a sinner by having no excuse?
That's what people say when they reject the whole counsel of the Lord refusing to believe all the Lord teaches in His Word.
If true then it's impossible for anybody to get born again at all.
Choosing to believe the gospel is done before a person can get saved.
That's exactly backwards and those who believe salvation cannot be lost are refusing to believe the whole counsel of God and as such they are rejecting the leading of the Holy Spirit which demonstrates that they are not actually filled with the Holy Spirit no matter how much they talk on tongues
Jesus said the Holy Ghost would lead us in to ALL Truth (John 16:13),
and Jesus said God's Word IS Truth (John 17:17)
And the case you speak of requires you to reject portions of God's Word in order to hold your position. It's sad for those doing such.
Not all is good ...
If you see any brother or sister commit a sin that does not lead to death, you should pray
and God will give them life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin
that leads to death. I am not saying that you should pray about that. 1 John 5:16
You can call that something good?
Where are they?
Show us.
We don't know if you are distorting what you think you are reading.
But the OSAS folks continue to claim it's not possible for a person to lose their salvation
There's been all kinds of people get born again and then live in sin, including preachers that subscribe to OSAS
Is this where you go in to the speech about how God puts cancer on people, kills one of their children or their spouse, or some other terrible thing to punish them for living in sin but in the end they still go to Heaven even though they lived in sin?
I've heard all kinds of tall tales about this, including God whacking his own people rewarding them with going to Heaven because they were living in sin here on earth. The wages of sin is death (separation from God), not Heaven.
Lot's of people out in the world that would consider becoming a Christian hear all this foolishness and decide they don't want to be involved because OSAS people make God out to be some sort of evil nutjob sorta guy
How much of the whole council does your way of thinking distort?
You refuse to give chapter and verse, and hide behind a veil of ambiguity.
Men have no excuse for rejecting God and being sinners - they know they're sinners for several reasons in part because of instruction like Rom1-3 which I mentioned and which can be read with some open eyes.
You know the teaching of General Revelation.
Rom1:18-32
- His existence and power is known to all so they have no excuse for not glorifying Him
- Unrighteousness (which is sin) and God's righteous judgment is not a secret - men know it and reject it
- In the context of sin, Gentiles who don't have law show the work of God's law in their hearts and in their consciences working
- Jews and Greeks are all under sin
What are you thinking?
Maybe, you can't do it.
But, saved people, who prior to salvation.
Who thrived and survived by their arrogance, can be tempted to return to their old way for survival.
It will not turn out all good for them.
They will eventually die the sin onto death, which is a death devoid of God's comforting grace.