Ephesians 2 is not preaching faith alone.

[ATG]

I have no obligation to do anything with the words you attribute to me. They are neither my words nor my beliefs.

You have no obligation to me to do anything with the challenge I make to you. They challenge your belief, not mine.

Mat 21:27
And they answered Jesus, and said, We cannot tell.

You don't care about others enough to discover what they actually believe. Why should I value what you throw at me?

I don't care about others not answering a challenge to what they believe. Why should I value anything else they throw instead?

 

[Dino246]

Ask Jesus Christ why it offends God so much:

More rank idiocy.

 

[Dino246]

They challenge your belief, not mine.

No, they don’t.

 

[ATG]

You do not sin?

You do sin.

You do not do evil?

You do evil.

You are justified by your faith-alone when sinning and doing evil.

Deny any of the above, and I will be corrected, and answer accordingly.

 

[ATG]

Paul seems to be saying that the Gentiles attained a righteousness by faith.

Romans 9:30-32
What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, attained righteousness,
even the righteousness which is by faith; but Israel, pursuing a law of righteousness, did not arrive
at that law. Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as though it were by works. They
stumbled over the stumbling stone.

James says a believer is only justified by works of perfected faith.

 

[Just_A__Follower]

Ask Jesus Christ why it offends God so much:

Jas 2:14
What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

2Pe 2:1
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

Why does answering questions offend you so much?

 

[ATG]

It seems like you are painting with too broad a brush.

I am responding to what people say about their faith-alone justification, by comparing it with Scripture truth.

If any man says he justified with God by their faith-alone, while doing unrighteousness, then Scripture rebukes the lie, and by declares only those doing righteousness are justified with God.

What do you say? Are you justified with Christ by faith-alone, even if you are doing unrighteousness?

While we can imagine that some folks who believe in "faith alone" live sinful lives, I doubt that they all do.

I have never heard from any faith-alone Christian, that says they are not sinning in life.

What say you? Are you not sinning against God by faith-alone?

Believing in faith-alone does not necessarily lead to a lax attitude toward morality.

It always leads to continued sinning against God and Jesus Christ.

What say you? Do you sin against God and Jesus Christ?

The slogan “faith alone” doesn’t mean “nothing besides faith matters.”

It certainly does, when pertaining to salvation and justification with God.

What say you? Are you justified by faith-alone, including when committing unrighteousness?

It arose during the Reformation as a response to the medieval Catholic system of indulgences and sacramental requirements for salvation. The Reformers — following Paul — were asking a deeper question:

Does God justify a person because of external religious actions, or because of the inward posture of trust toward Him?

Faith-alone justification was first rebuked in Scripture, when Christians began believing they are always justified with God by Christ, whether they do good or evil.

What say you? Does James 2 rebuke being justified by faith-alone, and not by works?

“Faith alone” is a shorthand way of saying that justification is grounded in the inner reality of trusting God, not in outward rituals or performances.

This is an ideological way of saying faith-alone justifies a person, no matter the outward deeds.

What say you? Are you saying faith-alone does not justify a person, if the outward deeds are sinful?

It’s an attempt to capture the conviction that salvation is given to those whose hearts genuinely rely on God, rather than those who merely comply with external requirements.

It's an attempt to escape the righteous judgment of God against evil deeds, because God has respect to their faith-alone in Christ.

What say you? Does any man escape the judgment of God for doing evil, if they have faith-alone while doing the evil?

 

[Roger316]

I am responding to what people say about their faith-alone justification, by comparing it with Scripture truth.

I understand that. But you also make generalizations that aren't true. But not everyone who believes faith-alone is morally lax.

The fallacy you’ve employed is called the fallacy of composition. It’s the mistake of assuming that what is true of individual members of a group must also be true of the group as a whole—if a group shares one thing in common, they must share all things in common. It is not true, as you suggest, that all of those who believe in faith-alone are morally lax.

 

[Dino246]

James says a believer is only justified by works of perfected faith.

Chapter and verse, please.

 

[Inquisitor]

You do sin.


You do evil.

You are justified by your faith-alone when sinning and doing evil.

Deny any of the above, and I will be corrected, and answer accordingly.

Your not answering the question.

Your reply is simply, tit for tat, you should make an effort to reply.

 

[Inquisitor]

Ask Jesus Christ why it offends God so much:

Jas 2:14
What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

2Pe 2:1
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

Salvation is a free gift and you must accept that.

Your good works are empowered by the Holy Spirit working through you.

Faith is definitely dead without works so why bother mentioning the obvious.

Works do not and cannot contribute to salvation because that reconciliation cannot
be earned by you.

Some how your going to have to sort your twisted theology out.

Salvation is only by the grace of God through our Lord Jesus Christ alone.

If you think for one moment that a good work justifies you before God almighty.

Then you have disqualified yourself from salvation.

Galatians 2:21
I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly.

Galatians 5:4
You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

Grace always comes first.

 

[Inquisitor]

Thank u for that! I’m not going to keep straight who posts what; especially when you’re on multi threads.

I never stated that it is all you need. (?) However, it is mandatory to have faith for salvation. What is this thread about??

“Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God. You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.”
‭‭James‬ ‭2‬:‭21‬-‭24‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Your knowledge of the scripture is woeful.

Here is what the letter of Epistle of James actually says, using Scripture itself to answer your question.

1. Abraham was counted righteous by faith​

• Genesis 15:6
  “And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.”
• James 2:23
  “And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness…”
• Romans 4:2–3
  “For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
  For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.”

2. James: faith is completed (perfected) by works​

• James 2:21–22
  “Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
  Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?”
• James 2:26
  “For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.”

3. The offering of Isaac​

• Genesis 22:10–12
  “And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his son.
  And the angel of the LORD called unto him… Lay not thine hand upon the lad… for now I know that thou fearest God…”
• Hebrews 11:17–19
  “By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac… accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead…”

4. Justification before God is not by works​

• Romans 3:28
  “Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.”
• Romans 4:4–5
  “Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
  But to him that worketh not, but believeth… his faith is counted for righteousness.”
• Ephesians 2:8–9
  “For by grace are ye saved through faith… not of works, lest any man should boast.”

5. Yet works follow and demonstrate​

• Ephesians 2:10
  “For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works…”
• Galatians 5:6
  “Faith which worketh by love.”
• Titus 3:5, 8
  “Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us…
  …that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works.”

6. James’ conclusion​

• James 2:24
  “Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.”

Summary (from Scripture itself)​

• Abraham was counted righteous by faith (Genesis 15:6).
• His later act with Isaac fulfilled and perfected that faith (James 2:22–23).
• Works do not justify before God as a basis (Romans 3:28; 4:5).
• Works demonstrate and complete living faith (James 2:26).

Final Scriptural Answer to Your Question​

Can a person be justified before God on the basis of a work?

• “To him that worketh not, but believeth… his faith is counted for righteousness.” (Romans 4:5)
• “Not by works of righteousness which we have done…” (Titus 3:5)

But:

• “Faith… by works was made perfect.” (James 2:22)

So, according to Scripture:

• Justification before God → by faith
• Living faith → shown and completed by works

 

[Just_A__Follower]

You do sin.


You do evil.

You are justified by your faith-alone when sinning and doing evil.

Deny any of the above, and I will be corrected, and answer accordingly.

So how’s your streak of perfectly righteousness going? Had any sin’s lately? Did you make sure to mark them on your calendar?

 

[TruthDefender]

Your knowledge of the scripture is woeful.

Here is what the letter of Epistle of James actually says, using Scripture itself to answer your question.

1. Abraham was counted righteous by faith​

• Genesis 15:6
  “And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.”
• James 2:23
  “And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness…”
• Romans 4:2–3
  “For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
  For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.”

2. James: faith is completed (perfected) by works​

• James 2:21–22
  “Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
  Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?”
• James 2:26
  “For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.”

3. The offering of Isaac​

• Genesis 22:10–12
  “And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his son.
  And the angel of the LORD called unto him… Lay not thine hand upon the lad… for now I know that thou fearest God…”
• Hebrews 11:17–19
  “By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac… accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead…”

4. Justification before God is not by works​

• Romans 3:28
  “Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.”
• Romans 4:4–5
  “Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
  But to him that worketh not, but believeth… his faith is counted for righteousness.”
• Ephesians 2:8–9
  “For by grace are ye saved through faith… not of works, lest any man should boast.”

5. Yet works follow and demonstrate​

• Ephesians 2:10
  “For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works…”
• Galatians 5:6
  “Faith which worketh by love.”
• Titus 3:5, 8
  “Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us…
  …that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works.”

6. James’ conclusion​

• James 2:24
  “Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.”

Summary (from Scripture itself)​

• Abraham was counted righteous by faith (Genesis 15:6).
• His later act with Isaac fulfilled and perfected that faith (James 2:22–23).
• Works do not justify before God as a basis (Romans 3:28; 4:5).
• Works demonstrate and complete living faith (James 2:26).

Final Scriptural Answer to Your Question​

Can a person be justified before God on the basis of a work?

• “To him that worketh not, but believeth… his faith is counted for righteousness.” (Romans 4:5)
• “Not by works of righteousness which we have done…” (Titus 3:5)

But:

• “Faith… by works was made perfect.” (James 2:22)

So, according to Scripture:

• Justification before God → by faith
• Living faith → shown and completed by works

-Woeful?? Lol
I quoted Scripture, so what do you think is so messed up??

-Scriptural answer to my question??
There was only one question.
And I can see you fabricated something other than answering the one simple question.
Typical, when you don’t have the correct answer.

[I wrote:
I never stated that it is all you need. (?) However, it is mandatory to have faith for salvation. What is this thread about??

(This is a quote from Scripture):

“Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? And the Scripture was fulfilled which says,

“Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God. You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.”
‭‭James‬ ‭2‬:‭21‬-‭24‬ ‭NKJV‬‬]

You would do well to heed your own finger pointing.

 

[TruthDefender]

Your knowledge of the scripture is woeful.

Here is what the letter of Epistle of James actually says, using Scripture itself to answer your question.

1. Abraham was counted righteous by faith​

• Genesis 15:6
  “And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.”
• James 2:23
  “And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness…”
• Romans 4:2–3
  “For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
  For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.”

2. James: faith is completed (perfected) by works​

• James 2:21–22
  “Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
  Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?”
• James 2:26
  “For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.”

3. The offering of Isaac​

• Genesis 22:10–12
  “And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his son.
  And the angel of the LORD called unto him… Lay not thine hand upon the lad… for now I know that thou fearest God…”
• Hebrews 11:17–19
  “By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac… accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead…”

4. Justification before God is not by works​

• Romans 3:28
  “Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.”
• Romans 4:4–5
  “Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
  But to him that worketh not, but believeth… his faith is counted for righteousness.”
• Ephesians 2:8–9
  “For by grace are ye saved through faith… not of works, lest any man should boast.”

5. Yet works follow and demonstrate​

• Ephesians 2:10
  “For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works…”
• Galatians 5:6
  “Faith which worketh by love.”
• Titus 3:5, 8
  “Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us…
  …that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works.”

6. James’ conclusion​

• James 2:24
  “Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.”

Summary (from Scripture itself)​

• Abraham was counted righteous by faith (Genesis 15:6).
• His later act with Isaac fulfilled and perfected that faith (James 2:22–23).
• Works do not justify before God as a basis (Romans 3:28; 4:5).
• Works demonstrate and complete living faith (James 2:26).

Final Scriptural Answer to Your Question​

Can a person be justified before God on the basis of a work?

• “To him that worketh not, but believeth… his faith is counted for righteousness.” (Romans 4:5)
• “Not by works of righteousness which we have done…” (Titus 3:5)

But:

• “Faith… by works was made perfect.” (James 2:22)

So, according to Scripture:

• Justification before God → by faith
• Living faith → shown and completed by works

-"Therefore, beloved, looking forward to these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, without spot and blameless; as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures. You therefore, beloved, since you know this beforehand, beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked; but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory both now and forever. Amen."
II Peter 3:14, 16-18 NKJV

 

[Nedsk]

BUSTED!

? LMBO

 

[Nedsk]

I asked you a simple question in which you were unable to answer. And no I don’t mean agree with me. And I don’t have a pastor. And yes I use my brain, do you? Would you like to just answer the question or continue spouting off garbage that takes a conversation nowhere? Do you understand what the phrase saved by faith alone” means?

You're upset. That must be unpleasant for you. Question: Do I understand what the phrase "saved by faith alone" means? Answer: Yes. I suspect what you will do now is tell me how works, result from faith, are a product of faith, flow from faith, etc etc am i right? Lets save time of course I am

 

[Nedsk]

Thank u for that! I’m not going to keep straight who posts what; especially when you’re on multi threads.

I never stated that it is all you need. (?) However, it is mandatory to have faith for salvation. What is this thread about??

“Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God. You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.”
‭‭James‬ ‭2‬:‭21‬-‭24‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Who said faith isnt mandatory?

Please look up what "perfect" means

 

[TruthDefender]

Why does the phrase “saved by faith alone” trigger you so much?

Because it’s only a part of Scripture that perhaps you are preaching as a whole, which is incorrect.

 

[TruthDefender]

Who said faith isnt mandatory?

Please look up what "perfect" means

Anxious are we? I just made a statement, nothing more.

Do you not know how to “Look up a word” on your fon? Perfect means complete in that verse. Your point?