Welcome to the club. When you push back hard enough some will say what they really think - that you're not saved. Some may even ultimately call you a demon for taking a stand against errant forms of faith-alone soteriology.
No living faith without works
- Thread starter ATG
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They did works though. What they didnt know was what those works would merit them. Matthews gospel doesn't say the goats had bad intentions it says they didn't do the works. The road to hell is paved with good intentions
My salvation is not determined by them. Their opinions in that regard are meaningless. I'm STILL waiting for a faith alone christian to provide evidence that their understanding of Scripture is authoritative.
The sheep didn't ask what their works would merit them, they asked when they even did them. You can't claim they were working for merit when they didn't even realize they were working. The goats didn't fail because they lacked a to do list they failed because they didn't have the nature of the shepherd to even see the person in need. Matthew 7 proves that the people most focused on their merit and their many works are the ones Jesus tells to depart because he never knew them.
Where did I say they asked that?
The fact remains you do the works you're saved. You don't do the works you arent. James is clear works complete faith. Jesus is clear, not everyone who spouts Lord, Lord will be saved. This isnt rocket science friend. The words are right in front of you
Matthew 7:21-23
Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’
"Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness!’
In the previous verses, Lord Jesus was showing that we are judged by fruit, not works.
James says nothing of the sort. He says that works are the result of real faith.
So tell me what wonderful works you do to prove that you are saved?
You just quoted the verse that proves my point. The people in Matthew 7 were shouting Lord Lord while pointing at all the many works they did in His name. They were focused on their doing just like the goats but Jesus rejected them because He never knew them. If salvation was just a performance review those people would have been first in line but they lacked the relationship that the sheep already had. James says works complete faith because a living tree naturally grows fruit not because the fruit is what creates the tree.
I don't doubt you do. All of you who continually say you do.
And so with your faith, you still sin. Your faith is to continue sinning, not to cease from sinning.
It's the same faith of all sinful people, who believe they sin and will sin. And do not believe you will cease sinning in life. Because man's sinful faith is unbelief in doing God's righteousness and sinning not.
Psa 106:3
Blessed are they that keep judgment, and he that is doing righteousness at all times.
1Jo 2:1
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not.
Only those that repent of sinning for Jesus' sake, can have their sin taken away and given His faith toward God to do good, and not to do evil.
All unrepentant sinners have faith in continued sinning. Faith-alone justification without repentance first, is faith for unrepented sinners to continue sinning against God, only now with self-justification.
Luk 6:46
And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
Rev 3:15
I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
However it's said, it's sinners like you having their faith alone to sin, and not having any faith of God to sin not.
And by your faith alone, justify yourselves while sinning, rather than being justified while sinning not, through the faith of Jesus Christ.
Certainly. For all them that repent of sinning against God, and call upon the Lord from a pure heart, and not a corrupt heart of lust:
2Ti 2:22
Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.
No one can call upon the Lord with a pure heart, without first repenting and forsaking their sinful lusts and iniquities.
Isa 59:2
But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.
Certainly not the gospel of righteousness.
Psa 106:3
Blessed are they that keep judgment, and he that is doing righteousness at all times.
1 John{3:7}
Little children, let no man deceive you: he that is doing righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
1 John{2:29} I
If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that is doing righteousness is born of him.
2Ti 2:22
Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.
However, the gospel of sinning is all yours, with your faith-alone.
1Jo 3:10
In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever is doing unrighteousness is not of God.
That's not the Holy Spirit you've given up doing good with.
Rom 11:8
(According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day.
Eze 13:10
Because, even because they have seduced my people, saying, Peace; and there was no peace; and one built up a wall, and, lo, others daubed it with untempered morter:
Faith-alone justification is the sinners' great remedy for not repenting from all transgressions, but making peace with those sins and trespasses remaining unto the grave.
Rev 3:18
I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see. As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
Heb 10:38
Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
And so, we have the conclusion of faith-alone without works: What you do is not about you. When you do evil, the evil doing is not about you.
Who's it about then? Just the devil? The devil made you do it? Or, is it about the Holy Spirit? It's not your fault God made you that way?
Faith-alone self justification is all about being justified when also doing evil. Because by having faith-alone, what you do is no longer about you. By faith-alone justification, an unrepented sinner rejects being judged by their works:
Rom 2:3
And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God? Who will render to every man according to his deeds: Who will render to every man according to his deeds: …For there is no respect of persons with God.
Gal 6:7
Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man is sowing, that shall he also reap. For he that is sowing to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that sowing to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting…Who will render to every man according to his deeds: …For there is no respect of persons with God.
This is the old hypocrisy of people saying the sacrifice of Jesus for sins, has nothing to do with themselves. The gospel of Jesus dying for sins is not about themselves.
They never sinned, so that Jesus did not need to come and die for their sins. Their own sinning has nothing to do with the sinners crucifying Jesus on a cross. Unlike others, they themselves are not guilty of His innocent shed blood.
Act 2:23
Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?...Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
Like the self-righteous of old, the gospel of Jesus dying for sins is not about them, because they are not sinners that would have shed His innocent blood.
Mat 23:29
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous, And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets. Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
So, the gospel of Jesus' blood shed by sinners and dying for sins is not about you?
Mar 2:17
When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
The gospel of Jesus Christ coming for the sinners to repent, certainly is not about them that are righteous, and need not repent. Either because they have not sinned, or because they are righteous by their faith-alone.
So, the gospel of Jesus Christ coming to die for sinners, and calling sinners unto repentance, is not about you.
And they call me self-righteous! At least I know the gospel of Jesus christ dying for sins, is as much about me as anyone else, that has sinned against Him. I certainly do acknowledge my sinning made it necessary for Jesus to come and die for my sins, and then to resurrect and call me to repent of shedding His blood and sinning against Him.
ATG, it's about time that you announce how you stopped sinning (repentance) before you
believed in Jesus.
You also need to decide whether you are saved by the grace of Jesus Christ alone or not by grace?
Everything we can know about salvation is always "by grace" first and formost.
So what is your definition of grace?
Amen! We are justified (accounted as righteous) by faith and not by works (Romans 4:2-6) and justified (shown to be righteous) by works. (James 2:21,24) The Greek word for justified has more than one meaning, depending on the context.
The Greek word for justified is "dikaioo":
1. to render righteous or such he ought to be
2. to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered - fits the context of James 2:24.
3. to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be
Strongs's #1344: dikaioo - Greek/Hebrew Definitions - Bible Tools
In Matthew 12:37, we read - "For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned." This is because our words (and our works) reveal the condition of our hearts. Words/works are evidence for, or against a man being in a state of righteousness.
God is said to have been justified by those who were baptized by John the Baptist (Luke 7:29). This act pronounced or declared God to be righteous. It did not make him righteous. The basis or ground for the pronouncement was the fact that God IS righteous. Notice that the NIV reads, “acknowledged that God's way was right.." The ESV reads, “they declared God just.” This is the "sense" in which God was “justified.” He was shown to be righteous.
Matthew 11:19 "The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax-gatherers and sinners!' Yet wisdom is justified/vindicated/shown to be right by her deeds."
