Ephesians 2 is not preaching faith alone.

[vassal]

Why would anyone desire to cease from sinning before they believe in the gospel? Sin can only be understood relative to what the gospel teaches, so if someone doesn't believe the gospel, then neither would they care about sin. The same with dead works and repentance.

Repentance is a gift only given by God to someone from their salvation: it is only given to those whom He saves

[Rom 2:4 KJV] 4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
[2Ti 2:25 KJV] 25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
[Act 11:18 KJV] 18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.
[Heb 9:14 KJV] 14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

If someone truly believes it is only because it was given to them by God as a result of their salvation. Since He does not do so to everyone, we can know that those that truly believe, are those He saved

[Jhn 6:29 KJV] 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
[Phl 1:29 KJV] 29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

[2Pe 1:1 KJV] 1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

You are mixing something important, and it changes the meaning of the truth.

You say people would not want to stop sinning unless they already believe. But Jesus shows the opposite. He calls people to turn from sin first, and then follow Him.

Jesus began His message like this:

“Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.” (Matthew 4:17, KJV)

He did not say, “You are already saved, so now repent.”
He called people to repent so they could enter the kingdom.

Look at how He spoke to sinners:

“I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.” (Luke 5:32, KJV)

They were still sinners. They were not saved yet. Yet He called them to repent.

And when He spoke to the woman caught in sin, He said:

“Go, and sin no more.” (John 8:11, KJV)

He did not tell her, “You will only stop sinning after salvation is given.”
He commanded her to turn away from sin.

Also, Jesus shows that people already know sin, even before fully understanding the gospel. Why? Because God’s law is already known in the heart, and Jesus points back to it:

“If thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.” (Matthew 19:17, KJV)

So sin is not first learned from the gospel. It is already known, and Jesus calls people to leave it.

Now about repentance being only for those already saved. Jesus again speaks clearly:

“Except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.” (Luke 13:3, KJV)

Repentance is not something after salvation. It is required so that you do not perish.

And again:

“They that are whole need not a physician; but they that are sick.” (Matthew 9:12, KJV)

A sick person must come to the doctor to be healed.
They are not healed first, and then come.

In the same way, a sinner turns (repents), comes to Christ, and then receives life.

You also said belief only comes after someone is already saved. But Jesus shows belief is the condition:

“He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already.” (John 3:18, KJV)

If someone is already saved before believing, how can unbelief still leave them condemned?

And again:

“If ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.” (John 8:24, KJV)

So belief is not the result of salvation. It is required to escape death in sin.

Then Jesus joins belief and obedience together:

“And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?” (Luke 6:46, KJV)

True faith is not something given after everything is finished. It is shown by turning, believing, and following.


People already know sin.
Jesus calls them to repent.
If they refuse, they perish.
If they repent and believe, they receive life.

God does lead people, yes. His goodness calls them. But Jesus never taught that a person is saved first and only then able to repent or believe.

He taught the opposite:
Turn, believe, and follow — so that you may live.

 

[ATG]

ATG said:

How can anyone confessing they continue to sin, be falsely accused of sinning, except they are lying, and are not sinning?

Do you continue to sin? Or, Have you ceased sinning?
I find that I cannot sin in Christ, in fact, I don't even have the desire to sin. I wrestle with sin everyday but my lifestyle is orientated to Jesus Christ.

And so, in typical faith-alone equivocation, without a yes or no answer, we'll take this as: You know no man ought to be sinning, that names Jesus Christ. But you do continue to sin daily, yet with a religious lifestyle of sinning less.

And yet you are offended for being called a sinner, that continues to sin. How about being called a religious sinner with a lifestyle of sinning less everyday, in Christ?

Or, of course, you can just answer the question yes or no, and show why you it's a false accusation, to say that you are a sinner continuing to sin...

How can someone who is perfectly righteous sin?

In the kingdom of God it's not possible to sin and be perfectly righteous.

But in the delusionary kingdom of the perfectly righteous by faith-alone, they cannot sin while sinning. They can sin in works, but not sin 'in spirit'.

Mat 6:23
But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!

Romans 5:17
For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive
the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.

That's my righteousness.

That's God's righteousness given to them doing His righteousness.

1 John{3:7}
Little children, let no man deceive you: he that is doing righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

Psa 106:3
Blessed are they that keep judgment, and he that is doing righteousness at all times.

That's not man's righteousness given to themselves by faith-alone doing unrighteousness.

Still I do not point the finger.

And yet, for someone so perfectly righteous by faith-alone, so that you cannot sin 'in spirit', you're well able to make doing righteousness at all times, sound like an accusation.

Obviously, them that are only righteous 'in spirit', are offended at them who are also righteous in works.

I will only ever be saved, past tense, by the GRACE of our Lord and Savior; Jesus Christ.

Mat 6:7
But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

I cannot earn salvation because it's a free gift given to those that trust in Jesus.

No man trusts in Jesus Christ, while sinning against Jesus, whether in spirit or in body.

However, there is a Christ that can be trusted by faith-alone, to justify sinners committing sin against God.

Mark 13:22
For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

1Jo 3:8
He that is committing sin is of the devil; for the devil is sinning from the beginning.

 

[ATG]

Your self effort to achieve a personal level of righteousness will fail.

Your self effort to achieve a personal level of unrighteousness is fallen.

Your attempt to perfectly repent is doomed from the start.

Your attempt to half-heartedly repent is succeeding from the start.

Your placing hurdles on the straight and narrow path that no one can achieve.

You're placing hurdles on the straight and narrow path, that you refuse to achieve.

Mat 7:13
Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

And so we see how the righteousness of faith-alone, is unbelief in doing the righteousness of God. Not only do they not repent to believe in walking the straight and narrow that Jesus walks, but they themselves declare no man can:

Mat 23:13
But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

Man's faith-alone is only believing what man says himself, not believing what God says Himself:

Eph{2:8}
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

The gift of Jesus' faith is to believe what God says, and do it. The gift of man's faith-alone is to not believe what God says, and do it not.

Mat 7:21
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that is doing the will of my Father which is in heaven.

1 John {2:17}
And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that is doing the will of God abideth for ever.

 

[ATG]

ATG said:
Are you justified by your faith-alone, and also when you are committing sin against God?

I don’t answer idiotic questions.

Mat 21:27
And they answered Jesus, and said, We cannot tell.

So far, all faith-alone justifiers are batting a thousand to repudiate their own faith-alone justification apart from what they do.

Who would have thought the righteous Pharisees by works-alone, would have such a strong bond with the righteous Christians by faith-alone.

 

[ATG]

Why would anyone desire to cease from sinning before they believe in the gospel?

Why would anyone desire to cease from sinning, when they believe a gospel of salvation and justification by faith-alone, apart from what they do?

Sin can only be understood relative to what the gospel teaches, so if someone doesn't believe the gospel, then neither would they care about sin. The same with dead works and repentance.

Repentance from sinning can only be understood by what the gospel of Jesus Christ preaches, repentance unto faith and salvation. So, if someone doesn't believe the gospel of Jesus Christ, then neither would that care about sinning. Beginning with repentance from dead works.

Repentance is a gift only given by God to someone from their salvation: it is only given to those whom He saves

Repentance from sinning is a gift only given by God to someone for salvation from their sinning: It is only given to those whom he saves by repentance from sinning.

Repentance in part is a gift only given by sinners to themselves from their salvation by their faith-alone: it is only given to those who believe they are saved with repentance following.

[Rom 2:4 KJV] 4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance? If someone truly believes it is only because it was given to them by God as a result of their salvation.

If someone truly believes it is only because it is given to them progressively as a result of their salvation, then they do not believe God leads to His whole repentance unto salvation.

Since He does not do so to everyone, we can know that those that truly believe, are those He saved

Since He does not give whole repentance to everyone, we can know that those who repent in part by faith-alone, are those He has not saved from sinning.

[Jhn 6:29 KJV] 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
[Phl 1:29 KJV] 29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

[2Pe 1:1 KJV] 1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

Psa 106:3
Blessed are they that keep judgment, and he that is doing righteousness at all times.

1 John{3:7}
Little children, let no man deceive you: he that is doing righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

1 John{2:29} I
If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that is doing righteousness is born of him.

1Jo 3:10
In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever is doing unrighteousness is not of God.

3 John{1:11}
Beloved, follow not that which is evil, but that which is good. He that is doing good is of God: but he that is doing evil hath not seen God.

 

[Dino246]

ATG said:
Are you justified by your faith-alone, and also when you are committing sin against God?

Mat 21:27
And they answered Jesus, and said, We cannot tell.

So far, all faith-alone justifiers are batting a thousand to repudiate their own faith-alone justification apart from what they do.

Who would have thought the righteous Pharisees by works-alone, would have such a strong bond with the righteous Christians by faith-alone.

More idiocy.

Until you stop intentionally misrepresenting “faith alone”, your comments and questions will remain idiotic. No amount of quoted Scripture will change misrepresentation into truth.

 

[Inquisitor]

Free-gift salvation is the most offensive purpose and conclusion of being justified by faith-alone, with continued sinful works.

What cost Jesus all His shed blood and agonizing death on a cross, is presumed to be given for free without cost to themselves, that do not repent of continued sinning against Him.

They object to being commanded and refuse to first repent, in order to be forgiven and reconciled by grace. By only believing Jesus did die for sins, they demand that they be freely justified with God, while continuing in unrepented sins and trespasses unto the grave.

Their hypocrisy is then compounded by declaring they have no part in Jesus needing to come and die for our sins, and be crucified by the wicked and bloody hands of sinners.

They say that their own sins and trespasses have no part in Jesus' necessary sacrifice for sin, and that they have no such shed blood of Jesus on their own hands. But rather that they are clean from His innocent shed blood, as though their own sins are not as wicked and bloody as others.

Luk 24:7
Saying, The Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and rise again the third day.
Act 2:23
Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

Every person that has ever sinned on earth, which is every person other than Jesus Christ has our part in Jesus' sacrifice for sins: Men and women sinning is the cause for Jesus needing to come and die for sins. Men and women sinners are them that have part in Jesus' crucifixion to death.

Throwing off all the work of Jesus' crucifixion, on Jesus alone, as though all sinners have no part in His sacrifice, is the great lie of the self-righteous. And by that lie, they then demand free-justification and glorification with Christ, because they are the righteous by faith-alone, that have no need to repent first.

As one such faith-alone righteous says, The gospel of Jesus Christ dying for sins by crucified sacrifice, is not about him. He has no part in shedding the Lamb of God's blood on earth, and so he ought have free-part in resurrection unto glory, with no need to repent of sins first.

Do you understand the following verse?

Matthew 15:24
But He answered and said, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

The atonement was only for the nation of Israel as Jesus fulfilled the Passover for Israel.

Jesus came to fulfill the law and the prophets which belonged exclusively to Israel.

Gentiles were grafted in at a later time.

Romans 11:17-24
But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them
and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree.

The Gentiles were not in a blood covenant to obey the law.

The Gentiles stand in the grace of God.

 

[Inquisitor]

Why would anyone desire to cease from sinning, when they believe a gospel of salvation and justification by faith-alone, apart from what they do?






Repentance from sinning can only be understood by what the gospel of Jesus Christ preaches, repentance unto faith and salvation. So, if someone doesn't believe the gospel of Jesus Christ, then neither would that care about sinning. Beginning with repentance from dead works.



Repentance from sinning is a gift only given by God to someone for salvation from their sinning: It is only given to those whom he saves by repentance from sinning.

Repentance in part is a gift only given by sinners to themselves from their salvation by their faith-alone: it is only given to those who believe they are saved with repentance following.


If someone truly believes it is only because it is given to them progressively as a result of their salvation, then they do not believe God leads to His whole repentance unto salvation.




Since He does not give whole repentance to everyone, we can know that those who repent in part by faith-alone, are those He has not saved from sinning.



Psa 106:3
Blessed are they that keep judgment, and he that is doing righteousness at all times.

1 John{3:7}
Little children, let no man deceive you: he that is doing righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

1 John{2:29} I
If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that is doing righteousness is born of him.

1Jo 3:10
In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever is doing unrighteousness is not of God.

3 John{1:11}
Beloved, follow not that which is evil, but that which is good. He that is doing good is of God: but he that is doing evil hath not seen God.

If your going to continue to quote 1 John, then make sure you quote the two commandments that
John wrote in 1 John.

1 John 3:23-24
This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another,
just as He commanded us. The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We
know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

That's the righteous way of life that John is referring to and they are the two primary commandments,
in the new covenant.

Galatians 5:14
For the whole Law is fulfilled in one word, in the statement, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

 

[Inquisitor]

Here it is again by the gospel of Jesus Christ beginning with repentance from sin:

Mat 4:17
From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Acts{3:19}
Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:

Cor {7:10}
For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of:

Heb {6:1}
Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

You preach your faith-alone gospel of salvation beginning without repentance, and I'll preach the Scriptures' gospel of Jesus Christ beginning with repentance.

You have corrupted the gospel of Jesus' grace with your own unrepentance.

Ezek 18:31
Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

Jerem 3:10
And yet for all this her treacherous sister Judah hath not turned unto me with her whole heart, but feignedly, saith the LORD.

Rom 2:3
And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?

Despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds: …For there is no respect of persons with God.

I don't preach faith alone.

Joel 2:32
And it will come about that whoever calls on the name of the Lord will be delivered.

Romans 10;13
Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved.

If you continue to call on the name of the Lord throughout your life (endurance), come hell
or high water, you will be saved.

 

[Inquisitor]

Luk 6:46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

Luk 6:47 Every one that cometh unto me, and heareth my words, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like:

Luk 6:48 he is like a man building a house, who digged and went deep, and laid a foundation upon the rock: and when a flood arose, the stream brake against that house, and could not shake it: because it had been well builded.

Luk 6:49 But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that built a house upon the earth without a foundation; against which the stream brake, and straightway it fell in; and the ruin of that house was great.

So what did Jesus command us to do in the new covenant?

1 John 3:23-24
This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another,
just as He commanded us. The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know
by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

 

[Inquisitor]

And so, in typical faith-alone equivocation, without a yes or no answer, we'll take this as: You know no man ought to be sinning, that names Jesus Christ. But you do continue to sin daily, yet with a religious lifestyle of sinning less.

And yet you are offended for being called a sinner, that continues to sin. How about being called a religious sinner with a lifestyle of sinning less everyday, in Christ?

Or, of course, you can just answer the question yes or no, and show why you it's a false accusation, to say that you are a sinner continuing to sin...


In the kingdom of God it's not possible to sin and be perfectly righteous.

But in the delusionary kingdom of the perfectly righteous by faith-alone, they cannot sin while sinning. They can sin in works, but not sin 'in spirit'.

Mat 6:23
But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!






That's God's righteousness given to them doing His righteousness.

1 John{3:7}
Little children, let no man deceive you: he that is doing righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

Psa 106:3
Blessed are they that keep judgment, and he that is doing righteousness at all times.

That's not man's righteousness given to themselves by faith-alone doing unrighteousness.



And yet, for someone so perfectly righteous by faith-alone, so that you cannot sin 'in spirit', you're well able to make doing righteousness at all times, sound like an accusation.

Obviously, them that are only righteous 'in spirit', are offended at them who are also righteous in works.


Mat 6:7
But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.


No man trusts in Jesus Christ, while sinning against Jesus, whether in spirit or in body.

However, there is a Christ that can be trusted by faith-alone, to justify sinners committing sin against God.

Mark 13:22
For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

1Jo 3:8
He that is committing sin is of the devil; for the devil is sinning from the beginning.

Who needs Jesus when you have a perfect repentance before the gospel is spoken.

You also have a life of perfect works while not sinning against God.

You do not need grace either.

 

[Inquisitor]

More idiocy.

Until you stop intentionally misrepresenting “faith alone”, your comments and questions will remain idiotic. No amount of quoted Scripture will change misrepresentation into truth.

Someone has trodden on this fellow's toes.

I have never seen such animosity towards the concept of 'faith alone', which is a Reformist sola.

Full of damnation!

 

[Just_A__Follower]

Luk 6:46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

Luk 6:47 Every one that cometh unto me, and heareth my words, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like:

Luk 6:48 he is like a man building a house, who digged and went deep, and laid a foundation upon the rock: and when a flood arose, the stream brake against that house, and could not shake it: because it had been well builded.

Luk 6:49 But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that built a house upon the earth without a foundation; against which the stream brake, and straightway it fell in; and the ruin of that house was great.

Not sure why you replied with a bunch of scripture that has nothing to do with what I said but ok. Maybe one day you’ll learn what Jesus meant in those scriptures because none of them say “do what my Father says”.

 

[vassal]

Not sure why you replied with a bunch of scripture that has nothing to do with what I said but ok. Maybe one day you’ll learn what Jesus meant in those scriptures because none of them say “do what my Father says”.

Because they are the words of Jesus and we all should listen to them and apply them. and yes they have to do whith what is said here, that the Ten Commandments (the Covenant) are IN EFFECT.

 

[mailmandan]

The difference between you and I is that I trust in Jesus for my salvation and you trust in yourself. Good luck with that.

Believers trust in Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of their salvation. (Romans 1:16; Romans 3:22-26; Corinthians 15:1-4)

 

[Nedsk]

Your attempting to turn the free gift of salvation by the good grace of Jesus Christ.

Into a terrifying Christian walk of wondering whether your good works are good enough.

Why would Paul call it a free gift when salvation requires endless good works?

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

You should wonder if you're good enough. How pompous of you to assume that just because you uttered the magic incantation, you're saved. That's galactic level audacity.

 

[Dino246]

You should wonder if you're good enough. How pompous of you to assume that just because you uttered the magic incantation, you're saved. That's galactic level audacity.

It is not audacity for an adopted person to act as part of the family.

 

[Nedsk]

It is not audacity for an adopted person to act as part of the family.

A nonsensical comparison and not at all what I said but you'll get it one day

 

[Dino246]

You should wonder if you're good enough. How pompous of you to assume that just because you uttered the magic incantation, you're saved. That's galactic level audacity.

A nonsensical comparison and not at all what I said but you'll get it one day

Yes, you did say "audacity".

It is not a "nonsensical comparison" at all because a person who is saved is adopted.

Romans 8:15 The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship. And by him we cry, “Abba, Father.”

Galatians 4:4-5 But when the set time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under the law, to redeem those under the law, that we might receive adoption to sonship.

Ephesians 1:5 he predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will—

Your misconception of a confession unto salvation as "the magic incantation" is just jealous rage. Your mother cult rejects assurance of salvation so you mock it.

 

[Inquisitor]

You should wonder if you're good enough. How pompous of you to assume that just because you uttered the magic incantation, you're saved. That's galactic level audacity.

You say that I should "wonder if you're good enough"?

Your inferring that some how you can attain a better standing with God by your obedience.

You have deeply corrupted the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Jesus is the one who atones, justifies, and sanctifies us, it is not what we do that adds or
subtracts from that atonement. From that perfect obedience to the whole law and His perfect sacrifice.
There are no amendments to the finished work of the Lord.

We are a very poor reflection of Jesus no matter how well we behave, and then there is heresy.

We are clothed in the righteousness of Jesus by faith and there is nothing more clean or more
holy. Than the radiant glory of our Lord Jesus Christ!

It is the Lord Himself that grants you His righteousness and you do not earn that.

We worship Jesus Christ and never boast or even think that anything we do really matters
in the end. The sole reason for salvation belongs to Jesus alone, the beginning and end, of
everything in Christianity. It is a free gift given to those that call on His name.