Loss of salvation???

[Toknow]

Yes agree, but lets look at this carefully.


Mat 5:17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.

Jesus did not come to destroy the law as sadly most teach, he came to fulfill.

What did He promise to do with the law that He fulfilled in this very passage.

Isa 42:21The Lord is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.

Magnify is not destroy, end or complete- its making it larger not smaller and Jesus fulfilled this perfectly

18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.

All has been fulfilled.

Not going to read the rest SabbathBlessing.

It's just too much about a topic I do not feel is important to a person's salvation...
and soteriology is my main interest on these threads.

Also, I did skim through and I believe you're just repeating what I've already stated.

This is a very important verse-there are two conditions here before even a jot or tittle can pass from the law- heaven and earth has to pass- heaven and earth are still here and all has to be fulfilled- not some things ALL which is all the prophecies that Jesus plainly said He did not come to destroy where He promises to come again and wipe away all tears, no more death, no more sin, obviously not fulfilled. Therefore the law stands because we have not had Judgement. Ecc12:13-14 Rev11:18-19 John12:48 James 2:11-12 Therefore not something as small as a dot of an i or cross of a t can pass from the law of God yet alone an entire commandment.

How do we know this is about the Ten Commandments- because He already foretold He would put an end to another law

Dan 9: 27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week;
But in the middle of the week
He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.

So the law of Moses that was outside the ark of God's covenant can't be the law that a jot or tittle can't pass from, so that leaves the Ten Commandments- the Testimony of God, written by God Himself Exo31:18 what was inside the ark of God's covenant under His mercy seat Exo25:21 and in heaven Rev11:19 because it is God's standard of righteousness Psa119:172 Isa56:1-2 the foundation of His throne Psa89:14

the law was outside of God's Covenant?
i don't even know what that means.

and we also know because Jesus quotes directly from the Ten Commandments but first says this:


19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

So you say what's the big deal about the Sabbath- well Jesus said quoting from this unit of Ten that was written by God that He came to magnify not to break or teach others to break the least of these commandments and by the very next verse least does not mean one will be in heaven.

Never said what's the big deal.
i said there's a diff between the moral law and the ceremonial law.
The Sabbath was a ceremonial law.
The ceremonial law has been abolished.

20 For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.

The Pharisee kept their traditions as well over the commandments of God Jesus again quoting directly from the Ten Commandments condemning them saying their heart is far from Me, because God placed His laws in our hearts Heb8:10 and when we reject them, we are rejecting something much more valuable. Rom8:7-8

I've said the above.

Jesus quoted directly from the Ten Commandments, the law not a jot or tittle can pass from, the law He came to magnify, relating the thoughts of anger with thou shalt not murder- relating thoughts of lust with thou shalt not commit adultery and reminding us not to break or teach others to break the least of these commandments. And if we continue in that path its the one that leads to sin and judgment.

21 “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.’ 22 But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, ‘Raca!’ shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, ‘You fool!’ shall be in danger of hell fire. 23 Therefore if you bring your gift to the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you, 24 leave your gift there before the altar, and go your way. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift. 25 Agree with your adversary quickly, while you are on the way with him, lest your adversary deliver you to the judge, the judge hand you over to the officer, and you be thrown into prison. 26 Assuredly, I say to you, you will by no means get out of there till you have paid the last penny.


Adultery

27 “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ 28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29 If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell. 30 And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.


God spoke and wrote Ten Commandments, not 1 or 9 Deut4:13 Exo34:28 God called them His commandments Exo20:6 He personally told us how we are to love Him- He even spelled it out. By faith we should keep all of them and not take the authority away from God because in the end its only hurting ourselves. If we trust God with 9 of them trust Him with all of them that He only has our best interest at heart and knows what He is doing. Don't follow the crowd Jesus said to live by every word of God. There is a whole lot of thus saith the LORD's in Scripture one has to ignore to come up with the conclusion we can forget the commandment God said Remember.

Jesus worked on the Sabbath.
He said it was good to save animals on the Sabbath.
HE FULFILLED THE SABBATH.
Jesus is LORD OF THE SABBATH.

I wish you would put this same effort into posting about obeying God
and being faithful to Him and how we can actually create the Kingdom of God here, right now.

 

[Toknow]

Yes, like the wise builder!

yes ma'am.
The wise builder will act on the words/teachings of Christ.
He will DO what Jesus said that we should do.
He will follow the Law of Christ by walking in the spirit and obeying the Holy Spirit's direction/advice.

And when we fail we ask forgiveness as John taught,,,and continue in our walk.

We do not state anything that would lead one to believe that obedience is secondary...
or that doing a good work is not necessary or unwanted by God.

Jesus is the foundation.
We obey jesus.
Amen.

 

[GWH]

There is no Scripture that say the NT deletes or supersedes the OT.

In the NT their Scripture was the OT and was used for:

16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness

Why Jesus quoted the OT for instruction to mankind:

Mat 4:4 But He answered and said, “It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.’ ”

There is not two gospels, just one Gal1:6 the same one preached to them as it is for us Heb4:2

So while man may teach something different I am sticking with what Jesus said because I know He will only lead one on the narrow path back to Him if we hear Him and allow Him to be our Shepard.

Re "There is no Scripture that say the NT deletes or supersedes the OT": The astute among us will notice that you make a straw horse to debate. Christians do not claim the NT deletes the OT, but rather that the OT is useful when interpreted in light of the Gospel (2Tim. 3:16-17, Rom. 3:21-5:1).

The astute also realize that you supersede the Spirit/Gospel with the Law, ignoring Heb. 7:11-10:1, which says such things as "He has made the first covenant obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear" (Heb. 8:13). Those who understand English know this is the very definition of "supersede". You supersede in the wrong direction.

The astute will note that I cited 2Tim. 3:16-17 re the OT and that Matt. 4:4 includes the NT. The fact that there is only one Gospel (per Gal. 1:6) is the reason I urge you to believe it and not be like those for whom the message was of no value because they did not have saving faith in the Gospel/enter God's Sabbath rest (Heb. 4:2-3).

I invite you to stick with what Jesus said and inspired Paul to write, but instead you engage in proof-texting, citing 1John 2:4 while ignoring 1John 3:11, which says that Jesus' command is that we should love one another, NOT that we must obey the Sabbath law or else be executed.

Yes, God is the Judge of whether Christians or Judaizers teach His Gospel Truth.

 

[GWH]

It's good that we concluded before Saturday that believers can withdraw from being in a relationship with God, so we can help each other be cautious. Now we can rest for the weekend. Why are you arguing on Shabbat & Good Friday and Easter weekend. Chase some bunny eggs for goodness sakes.

Help each other remain confident (Heb. 10:19-25 & 35-39).

 

[studier]

Help each other remain confident (Heb. 10:19-25 & 35-39).

That too (1 Cor8:9; Gal5:15; Phil.3:2; Col2:8; Heb3:12; 2Pet3:17)

 

[SabbathBlessing]

the law was outside of God's Covenant?
i don't even know what that means.

Sure., lets look at this from Scripture. There are two main laws in Scripture. The one that defines what sin is and one that was added because of sin. Obviously can't be the same laws.

The laws that define what sin is was written by God Himself- they included Ten Commandments- not 9 and God never made a mistake by adding a ceremonial law in with His moral law- all Ten Commandments came with the death penalty for breaking including the Sabbath - why all Ten Commandments are under the mercy seat of God because the blood of animals from the law of Moses atoned for the sins from the Ten Commandments- the ones under God's mercy seat -the Ten Commandments, what His blood covers the sins from this law. The blood of animals could never take away sins so all of those sins that were covered by animal blood could truly never be forgiven and why Jesus had to sacrifice Himself because He was the only one who did not sin- including breaking the Sabbath. Sin is still the same in the NT 1John3:4 James2:10-12 and the Ten Commandments unedited written by the Holy Spirit Exo31:18 are still under His mercy seat where Jesus is our High Priest and where His ark of the covenant is which hold the Ten Commandments what we will be judged by Rev 11:18-19 John12:48 James 2:11-12 Ecc12:13-14 Mat5:19-30

I think many confuse the law of God with the covenant. An agreement means covenant- God's laws- the Ten Commandments Exo20:6 started way before the covenant was given - why we see all Ten Commandments as sin for breaking before they were codified by God to an entire nation that represented His people.

God's covenant consisted of Ten Commandments only and no more were added to them

Deu 4:13 So He declared to you His covenant which He commanded you to perform, the Ten Commandments; and He wrote them on two tablets of stone.

Exo 34:28 So he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he neither ate bread nor drank water. And He wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.


Deu 5:22 "These words the LORD spoke to all your assembly, in the mountain from the midst of the fire, the cloud, and the thick darkness, with a loud voice; and He added no more. And He wrote them on two tablets of stone and gave them to me.

They were written by God Himself - the unit of Ten is the Testimony of God, the work of God - they are perfect for converting the soul Psa19:7 holy, just and good. Rom7:12 God makes no mistakes we do by not fully trusting Him.

Exo 31:18 And when He had made an end of speaking with him on Mount Sinai, He gave Moses two tablets of the Testimony, tablets of stone, written with the finger of God.

Exo 32:16 Now the tablets were the work of God, and the writing was the writing of God engraved on the tablets.

Only the Ten Commandments was inside the ark of God's covenant

Exo 32:16 16 And you shall put into the ark the Testimony which I will give you.

Under the mercy seat of God or atonement seat that included the 4th commandment

Exo 25: 21 You shall put the mercy seat on top of the ark, and in the ark you shall put the Testimony that I will give you.

The old sanctuary is showing us the plan of salvation what Jesus does as our High Priest in His Heavenly sanctuary Heb8:1-5 Heb9:23-24 where is God's Law is the Ten Commandments Rev15:5 Rev 11:19

The law of Moses was added because of sin for breaking the law of God the Ten Commandments- it was placed besides the ark of God that held the Ten Commandments and was there as a witness against thee

Exo 31:24 24 So it was, when Moses had completed writing the words of this law in a book, when they were finished, 25 that Moses commanded the Levites, who bore the ark of the covenant of the LORD, saying: 26 “Take this Book of the Law, and put it beside the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there as a witness against you;

Sadly many get these two laws very confused.

Jesus worked on the Sabbath.
He said it was good to save animals on the Sabbath.
HE FULFILLED THE SABBATH.
Jesus is LORD OF THE SABBATH.

I wish you would put this same effort into posting about obeying God
and being faithful to Him and how we can actually create the Kingdom of God here, right now.

Jesus did not break God's Sabbath, He broke the man-made sabbath much like people do with Sunday they make man-made laws around them called blue laws that the government will soon enforce that will be against those who want to keep God's true Sabbath as law breakers just as they did to Christ.

Jesus never fulfilled the 4th commandment so we can break it, just like He did not with the other 9 commandments. Keeping the 4th commandment is obedience to God just as the other 9 commandments - we are told plainly when we break one of these commandments we break them all and become transgressors of the law James 2:10-12 sin is breaking the law of God 1John3:4 His version not mans. Sadly you are following the popular teachings of man instead of what the Bible teaches. Jesus is LORD of the Sabbath what does that mean- what's the point of being LORD of something with all its authority that He Jesus sad the Sabbath He is LORD of is made for us if all we do is tear down what He is LORD of, sadly this is making someone else our lord not Jesus. Whoever we are obey is who we serve Rom6:16KJV- God invited everyone to join themselves to Him and serve Him Isa56:6 I would remove the noise of the word and listen to what God says, not man.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

Sure., lets look at this from Scripture. There are two main laws in Scripture. The one that defines what sin is and one that was added because of sin. Obviously can't be the same laws.

The laws that define what sin is was written by God Himself- they included Ten Commandments- not 9 and God never made a mistake by adding a ceremonial law in with His moral law- all Ten Commandments came with the death penalty for breaking including the Sabbath - why all Ten Commandments are under the mercy seat of God because the blood of animals from the law of Moses atoned for the sins from the Ten Commandments- the ones under God's mercy seat -the Ten Commandments, what His blood covers the sins from this law. The blood of animals could never take away sins so all of those sins that were covered by animal blood could truly never be forgiven and why Jesus had to sacrifice Himself because He was the only one who did not sin- including breaking the Sabbath. Sin is still the same in the NT 1John3:4 James2:10-12 and the Ten Commandments unedited written by the Holy Spirit Exo31:18 are still under His mercy seat where Jesus is our High Priest and where His ark of the covenant is which hold the Ten Commandments what we will be judged by Rev 11:18-19 John12:48 James 2:11-12 Ecc12:13-14 Mat5:19-30

I think many confuse the law of God with the covenant. An agreement means covenant- God's laws- the Ten Commandments Exo20:6 started way before the covenant was given - why we see all Ten Commandments as sin for breaking before they were codified by God to an entire nation that represented His people.

God's covenant consisted of Ten Commandments only and no more were added to them

Deu 4:13 So He declared to you His covenant which He commanded you to perform, the Ten Commandments; and He wrote them on two tablets of stone.

Exo 34:28 So he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he neither ate bread nor drank water. And He wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.


Deu 5:22 "These words the LORD spoke to all your assembly, in the mountain from the midst of the fire, the cloud, and the thick darkness, with a loud voice; and He added no more. And He wrote them on two tablets of stone and gave them to me.

They were written by God Himself - the unit of Ten is the Testimony of God, the work of God - they are perfect for converting the soul Psa19:7 holy, just and good. Rom7:12 God makes no mistakes we do by not fully trusting Him.

Exo 31:18 And when He had made an end of speaking with him on Mount Sinai, He gave Moses two tablets of the Testimony, tablets of stone, written with the finger of God.

Exo 32:16 Now the tablets were the work of God, and the writing was the writing of God engraved on the tablets.

Only the Ten Commandments was inside the ark of God's covenant

Exo 32:16 16 And you shall put into the ark the Testimony which I will give you.

Under the mercy seat of God or atonement seat that included the 4th commandment

Exo 25: 21 You shall put the mercy seat on top of the ark, and in the ark you shall put the Testimony that I will give you.

The old sanctuary is showing us the plan of salvation what Jesus does as our High Priest in His Heavenly sanctuary Heb8:1-5 Heb9:23-24 where is God's Law is the Ten Commandments Rev15:5 Rev 11:19

The law of Moses was added because of sin for breaking the law of God the Ten Commandments- it was placed besides the ark of God that held the Ten Commandments and was there as a witness against thee

Exo 31:24 24 So it was, when Moses had completed writing the words of this law in a book, when they were finished, 25 that Moses commanded the Levites, who bore the ark of the covenant of the LORD, saying: 26 “Take this Book of the Law, and put it beside the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there as a witness against you;

Sadly many get these two laws very confused.

Jesus did not break God's Sabbath, He broke the man-made sabbath much like people do with Sunday they make man-made laws around them called blue laws that the government will soon enforce that will be against those who want to keep God's true Sabbath as law breakers just as they did to Christ.

Jesus never fulfilled the 4th commandment so we can break it, just like He did not with the other 9 commandments. Keeping the 4th commandment is obedience to God just as the other 9 commandments - we are told plainly when we break one of these commandments we break them all and become transgressors of the law James 2:10-12 sin is breaking the law of God 1John3:4 His version not mans. Sadly you are following the popular teachings of man instead of what the Bible teaches. Jesus is LORD of the Sabbath what does that mean- what's the point of being LORD of something with all its authority that He Jesus sad the Sabbath He is LORD of is made for us if all we do is tear down what He is LORD of, sadly this is making someone else our lord not Jesus. Whoever we are obey is who we serve Rom6:16KJV- God invited everyone to join themselves to Him and serve Him Isa56:6 I would remove the noise of the word and listen to what God says, not man.

My time limit ran out before I could edit my typos these were the words I meant to say- my brain and my fingers are not always aligned.

Jesus is LORD of the Sabbath what does that mean- what's the point of being LORD of something with all its authority that He Jesus said the Sabbath He is LORD of is made for us if all we do is tear down what He is LORD of, sadly this is making someone else our lord not Jesus. Whoever we are obey is who we serve Rom6:16KJV- God invited everyone to join themselves to Him and serve Him Isa56:6 I would remove the noise of the world and listen to what God says, not man. Mat4:4

 

[SabbathBlessing]

Easter is the celebration of the resurrection of Jesus.
The resurrection was not invented by a denomination.

What the CC did was to disassociate from the Jewish Passover which falls on a different day
so that Easter could be worshipped on the same day all over the world.

So its a man-made festival if it was changed outside of Scripture.

Just like they changed God's times and laws from Sabbath to Sunday and admit doing so and say if we keep Sunday over God's Sabbath we are obeying a commandment of the Catholic church and their authority over God's. Exactly what the Bible warned us about Dan7:25. Why Jesus is telling us to come out of these false teachings before its too Rev18:4 that have been handed down over the centuries over following the commandments of God. This is the wine of Babylon we are called to come out of and back to worshipping our Creator Rev14:7 Exo20:11

It is well to remind the Presbyterians, Baptists, Methodists, and all other Christians, that the Bible does not support them anywhere in their observance of Sunday. Sunday is an institution of the Roman Catholic Church, and those who observe the day observe a commandment of the Catholic Church.
—Priest Brady, in an address, reported in the Elizabeth, NJ ‘News’ on March 18, 1903.

Q. Have you any other way of proving that the Church has power to institute festivals of precept?

A. Had she not such power, she could not have done that in which all modern religionists agree with her; —she could not have substituted the observance of Sunday the first day of the week, for the observance of Saturday the seventh day, a change for which there is no Scriptural authority.
—Rev. Stephen Keenan, A Doctrinal Catechism; New York in 1857, page 174

Question: Which is the Sabbath day?
Answer: Saturday is the Sabbath day.

Question: Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?
Answer: We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday.
—Rev. Peter Geiermann C.SS.R., The Convert’s Catechism of Catholic Doctrine, p. 50

.. you may read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and you will not find a single line authorizing the sanctification of Sunday. The Scriptures enforce the religious observance of Saturday, a day which we never sanctify.
—The Faith of Our Fathers, by James Cardinal Gibbons, Archbishop of Baltimore, 88th edition, page 89. Originally published in 1876, republished and Copyright 1980 by TAN Books and Publishers, Inc., pages 72-73.

Deny the authority of the Church and you have no adequate or reasonable explanation or justification for the substitution of Sunday for Saturday in the Third - Protestant Fourth - Commandment of God... The Church is above the Bible, and this transference of Sabbath observance is proof of that fact.'
—Catholic Record, September 1, 1923.

Of course the Catholic Church claims that the change was her act. And the act is a mark of her ecclesiastical power and authority in religious matters.
—C. F. Thomas, Chancellor of Cardinal Gibbons, in answer to a letter regarding the change of the Sabbath, November 11, 1895.

Sunday is a Catholic institution, and... can be defended only on Catholic principles.... From beginning to end of Scripture there is not a single passage that warrants the transfer of weekly public worship from the last day of the week to the first.
—Catholic Press, Aug. 25, 1900

 

[SabbathBlessing]

Who are the persons outside of scripture?

Do YOU believe keeping the Sabbath is a moral law or a ceremonial law?

Of course God wrote it personally and its under His mercy seat on how He tells us to love Him Exo20:6

Keeping the Sabbath is what God says is doing justice and righteousness (right doing= moral)


Isa 56:1 Thus says the LORD:
“Keep justice, and do righteousness,
for soon my salvation will come,
and my righteousness be revealed.
2 Blessed is the man who does this,
and the son of man who holds it fast,
who keeps the Sabbath, not profaning it,
and keeps his hand from doing any evil.”

Profaning the Sabbath is evil according to the LORD- He made the Sabbath for mankind to be a blessing spending sacred time with our Maker and rejecting this rejects all what the Sabbath stands for- its a sign of God's sanctification Eze20:12 without it what do we have? Its a sign He is our God Eze20:20 its puts our faith and trust in the LORD on what He says and not man, resting in Him for salvation.

Neh 13:17 Then I confronted the nobles of Judah and said to them, “What is this evil thing that you are doing, profaning the Sabbath day?

What God deems as evil and what God deems as righteous does not change.

Probation closes: Rev 22:11 Let the evildoer still do evil, and the filthy still be filthy, and the righteous still do right, and the holy still be holy.”

Ecc 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter:

Fear God and keep His commandments,
For this is man’s all.
14 For God will bring every work into judgment,
Including every secret thing,
Whether good or evil.

What did Jesus teach? Did He teach the Sabbath does matter? He taught how to keep the Sabbath and said we can still do good or evil on the Sabbath- evil is profaning it. Good is keeping it the way God said Exo20:8-11 Isa58:13 Lev 23:3

Mark 3:4 Is it lawful on the Sabbath to do good or to do evil, to save life or to kill?”

We are no longer under the Law but under the Law of Christ.
Christ is our Sabbath....not a day.

There is no Scripture that says this man teaches this, not what is in our Bibles.

Christ established the Sabbath....He is now our Sabbath.

Jesus said He is LORD OF the Sabbath, not that He is the Sabbath. The Sabbath is something man does according to the LORD Isa56:2 Mark3:4

 

[SabbathBlessing]

God rested from His works....a shadow of things to come in His Son.
We now rest from the Law...jesus is our rest.

2 Colossians 2:16-19
16Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day
—
17things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.

18Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in self-abasement and the worship of the angels, taking his stand on visions he has seen, inflated without cause by his fleshly mind,

19and not holding fast to the head, from whom the entire body, being supplied and held together by the joints and ligaments, grows with a growth which is from God.

Yes, this is the popular verse people use to teach we do not have to keep the Sabbath commandment. Shall we bring in the context that Paul gave us on this passage and what he is quoting. He said everything has to be according to Christ Col2:8- Jesus is LORD of the Sabbath making what He is LORD of with all its Authority as a shadow doesn't seem wise to me, certainly not what Paul was teaching.

There are several different Sabbaths in the Bible that uses the same word, but has very different meanings.

There is the seventh day Sabbath- instituted at Creation Exo20:11 Gen2:1-3, came before sin, reaffirmed in the Ten Commandments Exo20:8-11, written by God personally Exo31:18, placed inside God’s ark Exo40:20 God called it “the holy day of the Lord” Isa58:13

There are the annual sabbath(s) feast days that are always tied to animal sacrifices, they don’t always fall on the seventh day can be on any day and came after the fall and were handwritten by Moses, placed besides the ark of God’s covenant came after sin.

• 1st day of Unleavened Bread
• 7th day of Unleavened Bread
• Pentecost
• Trumpets
• Day of Atonement
• 1st day of Tabernacles
• 8th day of Tabernacles

We see these in Leviticus 23 and these are additional feasts besides the Sabbath of the Lord- the seventh day Sabbath Lev 23:37-38

So I think we are being quick to assume by seeing the word Sabbath that has different meanings and assuming it means the Holy Day of the Lord that comes with God's blessing and sanctification , without looking at the context that Paul carefully gave and we should let the Bible interpret itself.

Col 2:14 KJV Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to His cross.

Col 2:14 NASB having canceled the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.

Greek word for handwriting: χειρόγραφον (cheirographon)
Literally: “something written by hand

Ordinances
τοῖς δόγμασιν (tois dogmasin)
Meaning: “decrees,” “regulations,” “legal demands”

It is a legal document that condemns sinners why Paul used the word “against us” and “contrary to us”. The law does not condemn the righteous, it condemns the sinners.

Just from this context that Paul gave we can eliminate the Ten Commandments, but lets let Scripture interpret Scripture.

Who wrote the handwritten ordinances?

2 Chron 33:8 and I will not again remove the foot of Israel from the land which I have appointed for your fathers—only if they are careful to do all that I have commanded them, according to the whole law and the statutes and the ordinances by the hand of Moses.

What law is the law that was contrary and against?

Deut 31:24-26 So it was, when Moses had completed writing the words of this law in a book, when they were finished, 25 that Moses commanded the Levites, who bore the ark of the covenant of the Lord, saying: 26 “Take this Book of the Law, and put it beside the ark of the covenant of the Lord your God, that it may be there as a witness against you;


It appears from the text that this is not referring to the Sabbath in the Ten Commandments that was written by God Himself by His finger Exo31:18 placed inside the ark of the covenant, not besides like the annual sabbath(s) connected to animal sacrifices.


This is the law that was taken away at the Cross.

Col 2:16 let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

This is the exact language referring to the annual sabbath(s) that were handwritten by Moses, placed besides the ark that refer to annual feasts days, sacrifices and offerings that some were also called sabbath(s)

Eze 45:17 and it shall be the prince's part to give burnt offerings, and meat offerings, and drink offerings, in the feasts, and in the new moons, and in the sabbaths, in all solemnities of the house of Israel: he shall prepare the sin offering, and the meat offering, and the burnt offering, and the peace offerings, to make reconciliation for the house of Israel.


What did Jesus say He would come to put an end to? (compared to magnifying another law- by placing it in our hearts Isa42:21 Heb8:10)


Dan 9:27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week;
But in the middle of the week
He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.


Col 2:17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ

What are the shadows laws? Lets let the Scriptures define what they are

Heb 10:1 For the law, having a shadow of the good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with these same sacrifices, which they offer continually year by year, make those who approach perfect. 2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? For the worshipers, once []purified, would have had no more consciousness of sins. 3 But in those sacrifices there is a reminder of sins every year. 4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins.

5 Therefore, when He came into the world, He said:

“Sacrifice and offering You did not desire,
But a body You have prepared for Me.
6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin
You had no pleasure.
7 Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come—
In the volume of the book it is written of Me—
To do Your will, O God.’ ”

8 Previously saying, “Sacrifice and offering, burnt offerings, and offerings for sin You did not desire, nor had pleasure in them” (which are offered according to the law), 9 then He said, “Behold, I have come to do Your will, []O God.” He takes away the first that He may establish the second. 10 By that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all

This fits the context of this passage perfectly and makes the Bible harmonize because we see Sabbath-keeping (every Sabbath) 30+ years after the Cross just as Jesus Himself indicated Isa 56:6-7 Acts 13:42, Acts 13:44 Acts 15:21 Acts 18:4 and up to His Second Coming Mat24:20-30 and forever Isa66:22-23

 

[Toknow]

Sure., lets look at this from Scripture. There are two main laws in Scripture. The one that defines what sin is and one that was added because of sin. Obviously can't be the same laws.

The laws that define what sin is was written by God Himself- they included Ten Commandments- not 9 and God never made a mistake by adding a ceremonial law in with His moral law- all Ten Commandments came with the death penalty for breaking including the Sabbath - why all Ten Commandments are under the mercy seat of God because the blood of animals from the law of Moses atoned for the sins from the Ten Commandments- the ones under God's mercy seat -the Ten Commandments, what His blood covers the sins from this law. The blood of animals could never take away sins so all of those sins that were covered by animal blood could truly never be forgiven and why Jesus had to sacrifice Himself because He was the only one who did not sin- including breaking the Sabbath. Sin is still the same in the NT 1John3:4 James2:10-12 and the Ten Commandments unedited written by the Holy Spirit Exo31:18 are still under His mercy seat where Jesus is our High Priest and where His ark of the covenant is which hold the Ten Commandments what we will be judged by Rev 11:18-19 John12:48 James 2:11-12 Ecc12:13-14 Mat5:19-30d

This is true.
Not going to debate it.
I said in my very first post that the Sabbath being part of the 10 could be problematic.
I said it could be debated.

But, as you've said, jesus' blood will cover all sins.
Even if we're breaking one of the 10, our sin will be covered if we're in the NC.

Do you beieve we cannot be in the NC unless we obey all of the commandments perfectly?

I think many confuse the law of God with the covenant. An agreement means covenant- God's laws- the Ten Commandments Exo20:6 started way before the covenant was given - why we see all Ten Commandments as sin for breaking before they were codified by God to an entire nation that represented His people.

I said this a couple of posts ago.

You repeat everything I say SB...
which is why this convo is not going anywhere.

God's covenant consisted of Ten Commandments only and no more were added to them

Deu 4:13 So He declared to you His covenant which He commanded you to perform, the Ten Commandments; and He wrote them on two tablets of stone.

Exo 34:28 So he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he neither ate bread nor drank water. And He wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.


Deu 5:22 "These words the LORD spoke to all your assembly, in the mountain from the midst of the fire, the cloud, and the thick darkness, with a loud voice; and He added no more. And He wrote them on two tablets of stone and gave them to me.

They were written by God Himself - the unit of Ten is the Testimony of God, the work of God - they are perfect for converting the soul Psa19:7 holy, just and good. Rom7:12 God makes no mistakes we do by not fully trusting Him.

Exo 31:18 And when He had made an end of speaking with him on Mount Sinai, He gave Moses two tablets of the Testimony, tablets of stone, written with the finger of God.

Exo 32:16 Now the tablets were the work of God, and the writing was the writing of God engraved on the tablets.

Only the Ten Commandments was inside the ark of God's covenant

Exo 32:16 16 And you shall put into the ark the Testimony which I will give you.

Under the mercy seat of God or atonement seat that included the 4th commandment

Exo 25: 21 You shall put the mercy seat on top of the ark, and in the ark you shall put the Testimony that I will give you.

Which Covenant are you referencing?
The Mosaic?
The Mosaic Covenant included all of the laws,,,including those of Moses....
it includes all of the Torah.

The old sanctuary is showing us the plan of salvation what Jesus does as our High Priest in His Heavenly sanctuary Heb8:1-5 Heb9:23-24 where is God's Law is the Ten Commandments Rev15:5 Rev 11:19

The law of Moses was added because of sin for breaking the law of God the Ten Commandments- it was placed besides the ark of God that held the Ten Commandments and was there as a witness against thee

Exo 31:24 24 So it was, when Moses had completed writing the words of this law in a book, when they were finished, 25 that Moses commanded the Levites, who bore the ark of the covenant of the LORD, saying: 26 “Take this Book of the Law, and put it beside the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there as a witness against you;

Sadly many get these two laws very confused.

Jesus did not break God's Sabbath, He broke the man-made sabbath much like people do with Sunday they make man-made laws around them called blue laws that the government will soon enforce that will be against those who want to keep God's true Sabbath as law breakers just as they did to Christ.

Jesus never fulfilled the 4th commandment so we can break it, just like He did not with the other 9 commandments. Keeping the 4th commandment is obedience to God just as the other 9 commandments - we are told plainly when we break one of these commandments we break them all and become transgressors of the law James 2:10-12 sin is breaking the law of God 1John3:4 His version not mans. Sadly you are following the popular teachings of man instead of what the Bible teaches. Jesus is LORD of the Sabbath what does that mean- what's the point of being LORD of something with all its authority that He Jesus sad the Sabbath He is LORD of is made for us if all we do is tear down what He is LORD of, sadly this is making someone else our lord not Jesus. Whoever we are obey is who we serve Rom6:16KJV- God invited everyone to join themselves to Him and serve Him Isa56:6 I would remove the noise of the word and listen to what God says, not man.

You make good points.
I did say that I am not happy to debate this.
Paul spent time with the Apostles to make sure that he was teaching correct doctrine.
Paul said that we should not let ourselves be governed by food laws or sabbath laws...days of worship.


Colossians 2:16 CEV
16 Don't let anyone tell you what you must eat or drink. Don't let them say you must celebrate the New Moon festival, the Sabbath, or any other festival. 17These things are only a shadow of what was to come. But Christ is real!


What does the above mean to you?

 

[SabbathBlessing]

This is true.
Not going to debate it.
I said in my very first post that the Sabbath being part of the 10 could be problematic.
I said it could be debated.

But, as you've said, jesus' blood will cover all sins.
Even if we're breaking one of the 10, our sin will be covered if we're in the NC.

Do you beieve we cannot be in the NC unless we obey all of the commandments perfectly?

I believe God treats the 4th commandment the same way He treats the other 9 commandments- all are under His mercy seat. Can we continue committing adultery without repenting- changing our mind and direction and still be saved? Apply this reasoning to all Ten Commandments.

This is what the Bible says about it.

Pro 28:13 He who covers his sins will not prosper,
But whoever confesses and forsakes them will have mercy.

So isolating the 4th comamndment or laying it aside Mark 7:7-13 as if it doesn't apply is covering our sins,

Heb 10:26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord. And again, “The LORD will judge His people.” 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Which Covenant are you referencing?
The Mosaic?
The Mosaic Covenant included all of the laws,,,including those of Moses....
it includes all of the Torah.

I provided the Scriptures on it- please read because it literally tells us the difference between the Ten Commandments- the law of God Exo20:6 written by God Exo31:18 that was inside the ark and under God's mercy seat and the law of Moses, written by Moses that was besides the ark of God's covenant Deut31:24-26. One that shows us our sins the other added because of sin until the Seed.

You make good points.
I did say that I am not happy to debate this.
Paul spent time with the Apostles to make sure that he was teaching correct doctrine.
Paul said that we should not let ourselves be governed by food laws or sabbath laws...days of worship.


Colossians 2:16 CEV
16 Don't let anyone tell you what you must eat or drink. Don't let them say you must celebrate the New Moon festival, the Sabbath, or any other festival. 17These things are only a shadow of what was to come. But Christ is real!


What does the above mean to you?

I answered that here https://christianchat.com/threads/loss-of-salvation.215327/post-5719017

 

[SabbathBlessing]

This is true.
Not going to debate it.

I appreciate your thoughts. Please consider the Scriptures shared in prayer.

Happy Sababth and I wish you well.

God bless!

 

[GWH]

I believe God treats the 4th commandment the same way He treats the other 9 commandments- all are under His mercy seat. Can we continue committing adultery without repenting- changing our mind and direction and still be saved? Apply this reasoning to all Ten Commandments.

This is what the Bible says about it.

Pro 28:13 He who covers his sins will not prosper,
But whoever confesses and forsakes them will have mercy.

So isolating the 4th comamndment or laying it aside Mark 7:7-13 as if it doesn't apply is covering our sins,

Heb 10:26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord. And again, “The LORD will judge His people.” 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.




I provided the Scriptures on it- please read because it literally tells us the difference between the Ten Commandments- the law of God Exo20:6 written by God Exo31:18 that was inside the ark and under God's mercy seat and the law of Moses, written by Moses that was besides the ark of God's covenant Deut31:24-26. One that shows us our sins the other added because of sin until the Seed.

I answered that here https://christianchat.com/threads/loss-of-salvation.215327/post-5719017

There may be "several different Sabbaths in the Bible", but the meaning of Col. 2:16-17 applies to them all.
Do not kick against the goad of the Gospel.

 

[Toknow]

Of course God wrote it personally and its under His mercy seat on how He tells us to love Him Exo20:6

Keeping the Sabbath is what God says is doing justice and righteousness (right doing= moral)


Isa 56:1 Thus says the LORD:
“Keep justice, and do righteousness,
for soon my salvation will come,
and my righteousness be revealed.
2 Blessed is the man who does this,
and the son of man who holds it fast,
who keeps the Sabbath, not profaning it,
and keeps his hand from doing any evil.”

Profaning the Sabbath is evil according to the LORD- He made the Sabbath for mankind to be a blessing spending sacred time with our Maker and rejecting this rejects all what the Sabbath stands for- its a sign of God's sanctification Eze20:12 without it what do we have? Its a sign He is our God Eze20:20 its puts our faith and trust in the LORD on what He says and not man, resting in Him for salvation.

Neh 13:17 Then I confronted the nobles of Judah and said to them, “What is this evil thing that you are doing, profaning the Sabbath day?

What God deems as evil and what God deems as righteous does not change.

Probation closes: Rev 22:11 Let the evildoer still do evil, and the filthy still be filthy, and the righteous still do right, and the holy still be holy.”

Ecc 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter:

Fear God and keep His commandments,
For this is man’s all.
14 For God will bring every work into judgment,
Including every secret thing,
Whether good or evil.

What did Jesus teach? Did He teach the Sabbath does matter? He taught how to keep the Sabbath and said we can still do good or evil on the Sabbath- evil is profaning it. Good is keeping it the way God said Exo20:8-11 Isa58:13 Lev 23:3

Mark 3:4 Is it lawful on the Sabbath to do good or to do evil, to save life or to kill?”

I asked you WHO are the persons outside of scripture that you mentioned.
I don't know WHO you're speaking of.

There is no Scripture that says this man teaches this, not what is in our Bibles.

Jesus said He is LORD OF the Sabbath, not that He is the Sabbath. The Sabbath is something man does according to the LORD Isa56:2 Mark3:4

Jesus IS the Sabbath.


Last points:

1. The Noahic Laws were for all mankind.

1. Not to worship idols
2. Not to curse God.
3. Not to commit murder.
4. Not to commit adultery or sexual immorality.
5. Not to steal
6. Not to eat flesh torn from a living animal
7. To establish courts of justice.

2. The OT commandments were for the Jews only:

Exodus 31:12-18 CEV
The Sabbath belongs to me. Now I command you and your descendants to always obey the laws of the Sabbath. By doing this, you will know that I have chosen you as my own. 14-15 Keep the Sabbath holy. You have six days to do your work, but the Sabbath is mine, and it must remain a day of rest. If you work on the Sabbath, you will no longer be part of my people, and you will be put to death.

16Every generation of Israelites must respect the Sabbath. 17 This day will always serve as a reminder, both to me and to the Israelites, that I made the heavens and the earth in six days, then on the seventh day I rested and relaxed.

18When God had finished speaking to Moses on Mount Sinai, he gave him the two flat stones on which he had written all his laws with his own hand.




We are not descendants of the Israelites.

Will not be responding ot any other posts about keeping the Sabbath.
It is your right to do so and It's the right of others to follow their conscience.

 

[Toknow]

I appreciate your thoughts. Please consider the Scriptures shared in prayer.

Happy Sababth and I wish you well.

God bless!

Just sent off my last post regarding this.
I HAVE considered this greatly.

And I wish you a joyous Easter...the resurrection celebration of our Lord...
whatever day it falls on !

 

[HeIsHere]

Answer this question:

HOW LONG does justification last?

JUSTIFICATION declared when personal performance ends.

 

[Toknow]

JUSTIFICATION declared when personal performance ends.

Not what I asked He.
It's apparent to all that you do not believe God requires any type of obedience/performance from us.



Here's the question again:

HOW LONG DOES JUSTIFICATION LAST?

The ACT of justifying a person...
The legal act of justification....

HOW LONG does it last?

 

[Toknow]

JUSTIFICATION declared when personal performance ends.

Know what's MOST amusing?

You've just stated above that once a person comes to believe in God...

they're good behavior/works/performance should end.

Look at how you framed the sentence:

IOW, you said:

WHEN PERSONAL PERFORMANCE ENDS
A PERSON IS DECLARED JUSTIFIED.


Am I right @studier ?

 

[Toknow]

@studier

Re post 11, 159 to the other member.....

I find wording to be important and would like your opinion:

I know that works do not save.
Agreed.

But the other member seems to be saying that
once we stop being "nice" then we can be justified.

or V V we are justified when we stop being nice.

It just sounds wrong to me.