The book of Job

[JayWalker]

Let me ask you this; Can a person's own righteousness save him?

If their righteousness is of the Lord, sure.

Isaiah 54:17
No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, and their righteousness is of me, saith the LORD.

 

[tttallison]

If their righteousness is of the Lord, sure.

Isaiah 54:17
No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, and their righteousness is of me, saith the LORD.

Doesn't it become obvious that Job was not standing in God's righteousness?

Job 27:6 My righteousness I hold fast, and will not let it go: my heart shall not reproach me so long as I live. (Job's heart did condemn him. Job said he was vile, and that he abhorred himself.)

God said, Job 40:8 Will you also disannul my judgment? will you condemn me, that you may be righteous?

Elihu said, Job 35:2 Thinkest you this to be right, that you said, My righteousness is more than God's?

 

[reneweddaybyday]

You listed Elihu as one of Job's friends, but I believe the bible makes it clear that Elihu was the daysman that Job had requested from God. To support this idea I would like to present the scripture that supports this thought.

Job pleads for a man like Elihu, who would stand between him and God. Job has said, “God would laugh at the trial of the innocent”, Job wants an independent judge, a fair judge, a judge of clay, and one that would not make him afraid. (This is why Elihu is young.)

Elihu erred in that he had the same opinion of Job as Eliphaz, Bildad, Zophar had of Job (i.e. that Job was being punished by God due to sin on the part of Job ... they did not know Job was under attack from satan). However, we know satan was just being satan. Job and his friends were completely unaware of satan's involvement in the fiasco.

Job 10:2 I will say unto God, do not condemn me; shew me wherefore thou contendest with me. (Job is making a charge against God for contending with him, but compare this with what God says.) Job 40:2 Shall he that contendeth with the Almighty instruct him? he that reproveth God, let him answer it.

None of them ... Job, Eliphaz, Bildad, Zophar, Elihu ... knew satan was behind Job's dilemma.

Job's friends believed Job was being condemned by God for some sort of sin he committed and they all repeatedly told Job he needed to repent. Job asked God why did God contend with him. Job would have gladly repented if he knew what sin he had committed which resulted in being treated as wicked.

When God asked Job Shall he that contendeth with the Almighty instruct him? he that reproveth God, let him answer it (Job 40:2), Job's response was Behold, I am vile; what shall I answer thee? I will lay mine hand upon my mouth (Job 40:3). Job finally heard from God ... which is what Job longed for throughout his ordeal.

Job 9:13-16 If God will not withdraw his anger, the proud helpers do stoop under him. How much less shall I answer him, and choose out my words to reason with him? Whom, though I were righteous, yet would I not answer, I would make supplication to my judge. If I had called, and he had answered me: yet would I not believe that he had hearkened unto my voice.------ Job 9:19 and if of judgement, who shall set me a time to plead? (Job requests a trial date.)

read the verses ... Job was under the misapprehension that God was angry with him.

Do you believe God was angry with Job?

or do you believe Job was under attack from satan?

(Job 13:18-20) Behold now I have ordered my cause; I know that I shall be justified. Who is he that will plead with me?(Elihu) For now, If I hold my tongue, I shall give up the ghost. Only do not two things unto me: then I will not hide myself from thee. Withdraw thine hand far from me: and let not thy dread make me afraid. Then call thou, and I will answer; or let me speak, and answer thou me. (Job again sets the conditions for his trial, and if they are met he will speak.)

read the next few verses:

Job 13:21-23

21 Withdraw thine hand far from me: and let not thy dread make me afraid.

22 Then call thou, and I will answer: or let me speak, and answer thou me.

23 How many are mine iniquities and sins? make me to know my transgression and my sin.

Because Job believed God was behind his distress for some sin he had committed for which he needed to repent, Job begged God to let him know. Job would gladly repent ... if he knew for what he needed to repent.

The error of Job and all his friends (Elihu included) was that they believed God was responsible for Job's present condition ... when that is not the case at all. satan was wholly responsible for Job's poor and painful condition.

Job 19:6 Behold, I cry out of wrong but I am not heard: I cry aloud but there is no judgment.

Prior to Job 19:7 (not 6), Job reiterated that his friends reproached him without cause. In vs 3, Job pointed out that before his affliction began, they were close friends ... but they distanced themselves ("make yourselves strange to me"), were as strangers to him in their insistence that he had sinned and was being punished.

Job 19:2-6

2 How long will ye vex my soul, and break me in pieces with words?

3 These ten times have ye reproached me: ye are not ashamed that ye make yourselves strange to me.

4 And be it indeed that I have erred, mine error remaineth with myself.

5 If indeed ye will magnify yourselves against me, and plead against me my reproach:

6 Know now that God hath overthrown me, and hath compassed me with his net.

Job 23:4I would order my cause before him, and fill my mouth with arguments.

Job was wrongly accused by his friends and Job wanted to stand in the presence of God and have a fair trial before God.

In Hebrews we are instructed to come boldly before the throne of grace:

Hebrews 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

to come boldly means to speak freely ... that is what Job was asking for ... an opportunity to speak freely concerning the situation in which he found himself.

Elihu says to Job, Job 33:5-7 “If thou canst answer me, set thy words in order before me, stand up.” “Behold, I am according to thy wish in God’s stead: I also am formed out of the clay. Behold, my terror shall not make thee afraid, neither shall my hand be heavy upon thee.” (The two conditions that Job set for speaking are met in the words in red above.)

Would you agree that Job had requested a mediator to stand between him and God, and would you agree that Elihu meets Job's standards that Job set for that mediator? If not, can you explain in detail?

Agree Job requested a mediator.

Do not agree Elihu was that mediator.

While Elihu spoke some truth in his discourse, he also mischaracterized what Job was going through ... same as Eliphaz, Bildad, Zophar. They all (Job included) spoke truth concerning God, but they all (Job included) believed Job was being punished for some sort of sin for which he needed to repent ... and Job was more than willing to repent. Job asked God to let him know what sin he had committed for which he needed to repent.

None of them (Job included) were aware that satan was the cause of all the disaster that occurred.

.

 

[tttallison]

Elihu erred in that he had the same opinion of Job as Eliphaz, Bildad, Zophar had of Job (i.e. that Job was being punished by God due to sin on the part of Job ... they did not know Job was under attack from satan). However, we know satan was just being satan. Job and his friends were completely unaware of satan's involvement in the fiasco.





None of them ... Job, Eliphaz, Bildad, Zophar, Elihu ... knew satan was behind Job's dilemma.

Job's friends believed Job was being condemned by God for some sort of sin he committed and they all repeatedly told Job he needed to repent. Job asked God why did God contend with him. Job would have gladly repented if he knew what sin he had committed which resulted in being treated as wicked.

When God asked Job Shall he that contendeth with the Almighty instruct him? he that reproveth God, let him answer it (Job 40:2), Job's response was Behold, I am vile; what shall I answer thee? I will lay mine hand upon my mouth (Job 40:3). Job finally heard from God ... which is what Job longed for throughout his ordeal.





read the verses ... Job was under the misapprehension that God was angry with him.

Do you believe God was angry with Job?

or do you believe Job was under attack from satan?





read the next few verses:

Job 13:21-23

21 Withdraw thine hand far from me: and let not thy dread make me afraid.

22 Then call thou, and I will answer: or let me speak, and answer thou me.

23 How many are mine iniquities and sins? make me to know my transgression and my sin.

Because Job believed God was behind his distress for some sin he had committed for which he needed to repent, Job begged God to let him know. Job would gladly repent ... if he knew for what he needed to repent.

The error of Job and all his friends (Elihu included) was that they believed God was responsible for Job's present condition ... when that is not the case at all. satan was wholly responsible for Job's poor and painful condition.





Prior to Job 19:7 (not 6), Job reiterated that his friends reproached him without cause. In vs 3, Job pointed out that before his affliction began, they were close friends ... but they distanced themselves ("make yourselves strange to me"), were as strangers to him in their insistence that he had sinned and was being punished.

Job 19:2-6

2 How long will ye vex my soul, and break me in pieces with words?

3 These ten times have ye reproached me: ye are not ashamed that ye make yourselves strange to me.

4 And be it indeed that I have erred, mine error remaineth with myself.

5 If indeed ye will magnify yourselves against me, and plead against me my reproach:

6 Know now that God hath overthrown me, and hath compassed me with his net.






Job was wrongly accused by his friends and Job wanted to stand in the presence of God and have a fair trial before God.

In Hebrews we are instructed to come boldly before the throne of grace:

Hebrews 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

to come boldly means to speak freely ... that is what Job was asking for ... an opportunity to speak freely concerning the situation in which he found himself.





Agree Job requested a mediator.

Do not agree Elihu was that mediator.

While Elihu spoke some truth in his discourse, he also mischaracterized what Job was going through ... same as Eliphaz, Bildad, Zophar. They all (Job included) spoke truth concerning God, but they all (Job included) believed Job was being punished for some sort of sin for which he needed to repent ... and Job was more than willing to repent. Job asked God to let him know what sin he had committed for which he needed to repent.

None of them (Job included) were aware that satan was the cause of all the disaster that occurred.

.

Do you realize what you are doing? You are changing everything said to fit your narrative. Job is wrong when you want him to be, Elihu is wrong when you want him to be, Eliphaz is wrong when you want him to be, Bildad is wrong when you want him to be, and Zophar is wrong when you want him to be.

You totally ignore what God says that is negative about Job. That Job is without knowledge,, that Job was reproving and contending with God. That Job was exalting himself above God, and that God told Job that he couldn't be his own saviour.

You ignore the fact that what Elihu said was in line with what God said, and that God never said anything negative about Elihu, while God did say negative things against Job.

Do you know that the only verse in this book that was quoted as scripture by Paul was from the mouth of Eliphaz?

 

[christophernyc]

Job 27:6 My righteousness I hold fast, and will not let it go: my heart shall not reproach me so long as I live. (Job's heart did condemn him. Job said he was vile, and that he abhorred himself.)

God said, Job 40:8 Will you also disannul my judgment? will you condemn me, that you may be righteous?

Elihu said, Job 35:2 Thinkest you this to be right, that you said, My righteousness is more than God's?

Obvious to who?

Yes, God asks Job that **question** and Job effectively answers "no". So the answer is no Job does not condemn God. This alone proves satan wrong because Job is seeing God face to face and does not curse Him as satan falsely claimed from the beginning. See? That's the story.

Elihu is wrong. Job never said what Elihu is accusing him of saying. If you have that verse, please share it. But you don't have a verse because it's not in the text. Job never said any such thing. In fact, read chapter 9 again because Job says the opposite.

 

[christophernyc]

Do you realize what you are doing? You are changing everything said to fit your narrative. Job is wrong when you want him to be, Elihu is wrong when you want him to be, Eliphaz is wrong when you want him to be, Bildad is wrong when you want him to be, and Zophar is wrong when you want him to be.

Ha! Of all people in this thread to level this accusation at someone. Really rich.

You totally ignore what God says that is negative about Job. That Job is without knowledge,, that Job was reproving and contending with God. That Job was exalting himself above God, and that God told Job that he couldn't be his own saviour.

Nowhere does Job exalt himself above God. The only place this is written is in the mouth of the accuser and false prophet Elihu.

You ignore the fact that what Elihu said was in line with what God said, and that God never said anything negative about Elihu, while God did say negative things against Job.

Truly stupefying. Did you notice all of the praise God gives about Job at the beginning and end of the story? Chapters 1, 2, and 42. Read them again. You'll see it there in black and white.

And how much praise does God ever give Elihu? ZERO. That's how much. So if that is your metric, then we have a clear winner, don't we?

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Do you realize what you are doing? You are changing everything said to fit your narrative. Job is wrong when you want him to be, Elihu is wrong when you want him to be, Eliphaz is wrong when you want him to be, Bildad is wrong when you want him to be, and Zophar is wrong when you want him to be.

You totally ignore what God says that is negative about Job. That Job is without knowledge,, that Job was reproving and contending with God. That Job was exalting himself above God, and that God told Job that he couldn't be his own saviour.

You ignore the fact that what Elihu said was in line with what God said, and that God never said anything negative about Elihu, while God did say negative things against Job.

You ignore the fact that I have repeatedly stated that they ALL ... Job included ... were "right" about some things and they ALL ... Job included ... were "wrong" about some things.

These men were having ongoing discussion about a premise that is in error from the outset ... i.e. that God was the One Who was inflicting punishment on Job for sin committed by Job for which Job needed to repent.

That is a flawed premise because Job suffered at the hand of satan. Period.

.

 

[tttallison]

Ha! Of all people in this thread to level this accusation at someone. Really rich.


Nowhere does Job exalt himself above God. The only place this is written is in the mouth of the accuser and false prophet Elihu.

It's only unfair of me if it is not true.

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Job said God was unrighteous, when he said, Job 9:23 If the scourge slay suddenly, he will laugh at the trial of the innocent.

Job said God was unrighteous when he said, Job 9:24 The earth is given into the hand of the wicked: he covereth the faces of the judges thereof; if not, where, and who is he?

Job said God was unrighteous, when he said, Job 9:17 For he breaketh me with a tempest, and multiplieth my wounds without cause.
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Job exalted his righteousness, when he said, Job 27:6 My righteousness I hold fast, and will not let it go: my heart shall not reproach me so long as I live.

Job exalted his righteousness, when he said, Job 29:11 When the ear heard me, then it blessed me; and when the eye saw me, it gave witness to me:

Job exalted his righteousness, when he said, Job 29:14 I put on righteousness, and it clothed me: my judgment was as a robe and a diadem.
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[tttallison]

You ignore the fact that I have repeatedly stated that they ALL ... Job included ... were "right" about some things and they ALL ... Job included ... were "wrong" about some things.

These men were having ongoing discussion about a premise that is in error from the outset ... i.e. that God was the One Who was inflicting punishment on Job for sin committed by Job for which Job needed to repent.

That is a flawed premise because Job suffered at the hand of satan. Period.

.

If God wasn't responsible for what happened to Job, then why did God take responsibility for it?

Job 2:3 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause.

God said he did the moving against Job. Was God in error?

 

[JayWalker]

Doesn't it become obvious that Job was not standing in God's righteousness?

Yes, which of course is WHY the hedge of protection was not longer there to protect Job as it had been before.

You win for recognizing this!

 

[reneweddaybyday]

If God wasn't responsible for what happened to Job, then why did God take responsibility for it?

Job 2:3 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause.

God told us what satan did to Job. God did not "take responsibility" for satan's actions.

satan wanted God to move against Job, but only satan moved against Job, and that without cause.

God tells us that He blessed Job after his trial ended (Job 42:12) and Job lived 140 years after his trial ended and saw 4 generations of descendants (Job 42:16).

God said he did the moving against Job.

no God did not say He moved against Job. satan's desire was to have God smite Job, but God specifically says it was satan who smote Job with boils from the soles of his feet to the top of his head (Job 2:7).

Was God in error?

I believe you are in error. God's Word clearly states that satan smote Job and God's Word clearly states that God restricted satan from killing Job.

you do know that the ministry of satan (not God) is to steal, kill, destroy, yes? ... and that God gives life, yes? ... John 10:10.

You want to lay blame for Job's dilemma on God? ... not wise, but have at it.

I will continue to lay blame at the feet of satan, exactly where it belongs.

.

 

[tttallison]

Yes, which of course is WHY the hedge of protection was not longer there to protect Job as it had been before.

You win for recognizing this!
View attachment 287558

I hope its not about winning, but rather truth. If I am wrong about something I want to know.

 

[tttallison]

God told us what satan did to Job. God did not "take responsibility" for satan's actions.

satan wanted God to move against Job, but only satan moved against Job, and that without cause.

God tells us that He blessed Job after his trial ended (Job 42:12) and Job lived 140 years after his trial ended and saw 4 generations of descendants (Job 42:16).



no God did not say He moved against Job. satan's desire was to have God smite Job, but God specifically says it was satan who smote Job with boils from the soles of his feet to the top of his head (Job 2:7).

I believe you are in error. God's Word clearly states that satan smote Job and God's Word clearly states that God restricted satan from killing Job.

you do know that the ministry of satan (not God) is to steal, kill, destroy, yes? ... and that God gives life, yes? ... John 10:10.

You want to lay blame for Job's dilemma on God? ... not wise, but have at it.

I will continue to lay blame at the feet of satan, exactly where it belongs.

.

God is the Commander in Chief and Satan is one of his Generals, though it is agreed he is an evil General. This evil General wants to destroy a favorite city of the Commander in Chief, and the Commander says okay, but don't utterly destroy it. Now why would the commander allow his favorite city to be attacked?

Let me tell you about an actual General, who was a servant of the Commander in Chief, and his name was Nebuchadrezzar. He destroyed the city and the people of the Commander in Chief, but he left a remnant of the people. Why did he destroy the people? God destroyed the people, because they praised him with their lips, but their hearts were far from him.

Jer 22:25 And I will give thee into the hand of them that seek thy life, and into the hand of them whose face thou fearest, even into the hand of Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon, and into the hand of the Chaldeans

Jer 25:9 Behold, I will send and take all the families of the north, saith the LORD, and Nebuchadrezzar the king of Babylon, my servant, and will bring them against this land, and against the inhabitants thereof, and against all these nations round about, and will utterly destroy them, and make them an astonishment, and an hissing, and perpetual desolations.

Isa 29:13 Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men: (Notice that their fear toward God was taught by the precept of men.

Job 42:5 I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee.)

Nebuchadnezzar did the destroying, but he was under the command of God. Why did God have his city destroyed? Wasn’t it to remove the leaven from his people? To save a remnant of them? God asked Job if he was going to make a permanent contract with the serpent. God wanted to save his soul. Elihu put it this way, Job 33:24 Then he is gracious unto him, and saith, Deliver him from going down to the pit: I have found a ransom. Job 33:26 He shall pray unto God, and he will be favourable unto him: and he shall see his face with joy: for he will render unto man his righteousness.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

God is the Commander in Chief and Satan is one of his Generals, though it is agreed he is an evil General. This evil General wants to destroy a favorite city of the Commander in Chief, and the Commander says okay, but don't utterly destroy it. Now why would the commander allow his favorite city to be attacked?

take your question all the way back to Eve ... she had no sin. Are you going to blame God for Eve having transgressed?

Let me tell you about an actual General, who was a servant of the Commander in Chief, and his name was Nebuchadrezzar. He destroyed the city and the people of the Commander in Chief, but he left a remnant of the people. Why did he destroy the people? God destroyed the people, because they praised him with their lips, but their hearts were far from him.

you believe that was Job's state??? ... even though God specifically tells you Job was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil (Job 1:1, 8, 2:3) ... and Job 2:3 adds that Job maintained his integrity even though satan tried to incite God to move against Job???


Take a look at these verses:

1 Peter 5:6-11

6 Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time:

7 Casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you.

8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

9 Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.

10 But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.

11 To him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.


vs 6 tells us that as we humble ourselves ... rely wholly on God ... He will raise us up.

vs 7 tells us to throw all our anxieties to God because He cares for us. We have a tendency to focus on what is happening to us as we go through times of trial ... just as Job did in his affliction. God never leaves us, even though we may think He has because we're looking at what's going on around us and do not consider what God is working in us.

vs 8 tells us to be clear-headed and vigilant against our adversary because he is constantly roaming ... seeking to devour. Take note of this verse because you seem to forget that it is not God who seeks to devour ... it is your adversary the devil who roams about seeking to devour

vs 9 tells us that we are not alone in our afflictions and the way to resist steadfast is through faith.

vs 10 tells us:

... after ye have suffered a while - we do not know how long the trial we currently face will last. All God tells us is that it's "a while."​

vs 10 also tells us that as we are in the midst of our trial, God is working in us to make us:

... perfect (Greek katartízō) which means exactly fit (adjust) to be in good working order. ​

​

... stablish (Greek stērízō) which means set fast (fix); give support to secure (firmly establish); solidly plant. ​

​

... strengthen (Greek sthenóō) which means make strong so as to be mobile – i.e. able to move in a way that achieves something in the most effective way. ​

​

... settle (Greek themelioó) which means to make stable, establish.​

vs 11 – all glory and honor to God, for without Him we can do nothing.


We have a tendency to look at the trials and afflictions we face and forget Who it is that is working within us to help us overcome each and every situation. He is faithful and He will perform that which He says He will do.

We have the luxury of knowing these great and marvelous truths. We have at our fingertips to read and study what neither Job nor his friends had knowledge of.

If Job had lived in our day and time with the Word of God at hand to study, would he have just hunkered down in his time of trial, resting solely in the knowledge that God would see him through? In your times of trial, do you focus solely on what God is working in you as opposed to what is going on around you?

.

 

[christophernyc]

I hope its not about winning, but rather truth. If I am wrong about something I want to know.

You are wrong about Elihu.

He is not the mediator he claims to be. Job consistently asks to meet with God --- and guess what? God Himself appears to Job and speaks to him directly.

Elihu says God speaks in 2 ways, in dreams and through pain, and yet Elihu does not account for the fact that God Himself will appear and speak. Guess he's not so "perfect in knowledge" as he claims to be.

Elihu, like satan, wishes harm on Job.

Job 34:36
My desire is that Job may be tried unto the end because of his answers for wicked men.

Elihu's motive is clearly not corrective. It's punitive. He is evil, just like satan.

Elihu operates as an accuser against Job, just like satan.

Elihu interrogates Job when Job is at his weakest, just like satan did when Jesus was tempted in the desert 40 days.

Elihu says "right" things at times to Job, just like satan quoted Scripture to Jesus when he was tempted in the desert 40 days.

Elihu is a false christ.

It's sad to see people seduced by him.

Some have a perverted interpretation of this book and give credit to Elihu which actually belongs to Job. Then they give criticism to Job which actually belongs to Elihu. Totally backwards.

Some accuse Job of pride and self-righteousness when Scripture clearly states the opposite. Then when bombastic Elihu shows up and claims to be "perfect in knowledge" and grandstands his opinion incessantly, those same people honor Elihu as some kind of wise, sensitive counselor. No, he is the proud and arrogant one.

It's bizarre how this gets flipped around. But I guess the saying is true: it's easier to deceive someone than it is to convince someone they've been deceived.

 

[tttallison]

take your question all the way back to Eve ... she had no sin. Are you going to blame God for Eve having transgressed?




you believe that was Job's state??? ... even though God specifically tells you Job was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil (Job 1:1, 8, 2:3) ... and Job 2:3 adds that Job maintained his integrity even though satan tried to incite God to move against Job???


Take a look at these verses:

1 Peter 5:6-11

6 Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time:

7 Casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you.

8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

9 Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.

10 But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.

11 To him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.


vs 6 tells us that as we humble ourselves ... rely wholly on God ... He will raise us up.

vs 7 tells us to throw all our anxieties to God because He cares for us. We have a tendency to focus on what is happening to us as we go through times of trial ... just as Job did in his affliction. God never leaves us, even though we may think He has because we're looking at what's going on around us and do not consider what God is working in us.

vs 8 tells us to be clear-headed and vigilant against our adversary because he is constantly roaming ... seeking to devour. Take note of this verse because you seem to forget that it is not God who seeks to devour ... it is your adversary the devil who roams about seeking to devour

vs 9 tells us that we are not alone in our afflictions and the way to resist steadfast is through faith.

vs 10 tells us:

... after ye have suffered a while - we do not know how long the trial we currently face will last. All God tells us is that it's "a while."​

vs 10 also tells us that as we are in the midst of our trial, God is working in us to make us:

... perfect (Greek katartízō) which means exactly fit (adjust) to be in good working order. ​

​

... stablish (Greek stērízō) which means set fast (fix); give support to secure (firmly establish); solidly plant. ​

​

... strengthen (Greek sthenóō) which means make strong so as to be mobile – i.e. able to move in a way that achieves something in the most effective way. ​

​

... settle (Greek themelioó) which means to make stable, establish.​

vs 11 – all glory and honor to God, for without Him we can do nothing.


We have a tendency to look at the trials and afflictions we face and forget Who it is that is working within us to help us overcome each and every situation. He is faithful and He will perform that which He says He will do.

We have the luxury of knowing these great and marvelous truths. We have at our fingertips to read and study what neither Job nor his friends had knowledge of.

If Job had lived in our day and time with the Word of God at hand to study, would he have just hunkered down in his time of trial, resting solely in the knowledge that God would see him through? In your times of trial, do you focus solely on what God is working in you as opposed to what is going on around you?

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Why would I blame God for Eve having transgressed? I am not blaming God for Job having transgressed.

Yes, I believe Job praised God with his lips, while at the same time his heart was far from God. Isa 44:20 He feedeth on ashes: a deceived heart hath turned him aside, that he cannot deliver his soul, nor say, Is there not a lie in my right hand? God said, Job 40:14 Then will I also confess unto thee that thine own right hand can save thee. Job 2:8 And he took him a potsherd to scrape himself withal; and he sat down among the ashes. Lam 3:16 He hath also broken my teeth with gravel stones, he hath covered me with ashes. Job understood about cursing God with the heart. Job 1:5 -------for Job said, It may be that my sons have sinned, and cursed God in their hearts. -------.

Your first stumbling stone is your understanding of blameless and upright. Blameless means God wasn't holding Job accountable for his sins because Job was without knowledge. Upright means Job was trying to do what is right, and we see that he thought he was doing right when he said, Job 27:6 My righteousness I hold fast, and will not let it go: my heart shall not reproach me so long as I live. And we know his heart did reproach him when he abhorred himself in Job 42:6 Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes. This goes back to the fact that Job was without knowledge. Rom 10:2-3 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. Take the stumbling stone away, which is a false premise, and the book will start to open up.

You believe Job didn't possess the Word of God?

Job 23:12 Neither have I gone back from the commandment of his lips; I have esteemed the words of his mouth more than my necessary food.

 

[tttallison]

You are wrong about Elihu.

He is not the mediator he claims to be. Job consistently asks to meet with God --- and guess what? God Himself appears to Job and speaks to him directly.

Elihu says God speaks in 2 ways, in dreams and through pain, and yet Elihu does not account for the fact that God Himself will appear and speak. Guess he's not so "perfect in knowledge" as he claims to be.

Elihu, like satan, wishes harm on Job.

Job 34:36
My desire is that Job may be tried unto the end because of his answers for wicked men.

Elihu's motive is clearly not corrective. It's punitive. He is evil, just like satan.

Elihu operates as an accuser against Job, just like satan.

Elihu interrogates Job when Job is at his weakest, just like satan did when Jesus was tempted in the desert 40 days.

Elihu says "right" things at times to Job, just like satan quoted Scripture to Jesus when he was tempted in the desert 40 days.

Elihu is a false christ.

It's sad to see people seduced by him.

Some have a perverted interpretation of this book and give credit to Elihu which actually belongs to Job. Then they give criticism to Job which actually belongs to Elihu. Totally backwards.

Some accuse Job of pride and self-righteousness when Scripture clearly states the opposite. Then when bombastic Elihu shows up and claims to be "perfect in knowledge" and grandstands his opinion incessantly, those same people honor Elihu as some kind of wise, sensitive counselor. No, he is the proud and arrogant one.

It's bizarre how this gets flipped around. But I guess the saying is true: it's easier to deceive someone than it is to convince someone they've been deceived.

Well one of us is wrong about Elihu.

Elihu and God

Compare these verses carefully.


Elihu said, “Job hath spoken without knowledge, and his words were without wisdom.” Job 34:35

Elihu said, “Therefore doth Job open his mouth in vain: he multiplieth words without knowledge.” Job 35:16


Notice how the Lord repeats what Elihu had said.


The Lord said, “Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?” Job 38:2


Compare these two verses carefully.


Elihu said, “If thou canst answer me, set they words in order before me, stand up.” Job 33:5


Notice how the Lord repeats what Elihu had said.


The Lord said, “Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.” Job 38:3


Compare these verses of Elihu’s speech, which were spoken before the Lord spoke.


Elihu said, “Hearken unto this, O Job: stand still, and consider the wondrous works of God. Dost thou know when God disposed them, and caused the light of his cloud to shine? Dost thou know the balancings of the clouds, the wondrous works of him which is perfect in knowledge? Job 37:14-16


The Lord said, “Knowest thou the ordinances of heaven? Canst thou set the dominion therof in the earth? Canst thou lift up they voice to the clouds, that abundance of waters may cover thee?” Job 38:33-34


Compare this verse of Elihu’s with a verse from the Lord.


Elihu said, “Shall even he that hateth right govern? And wilt thou condemn him that is most just?” Job 34-17



The Lord said, “Shall he that contendeth with the Almighty instruct him? He that reproveth God, let him answer it.” Job 40:2


Compare the two verses from Elihu, which were spoken before the Lord spoke.


Elihu said, “Then was kindled the wrath of Elihu the son of Barachel the Buzite, of the kindred of Ram: against Job was his wrath kindled, because he justified himself rather than God.” Job 32:2

Elihu said, “Thinkest thou this to be right, that thou saidst, my righteousness is more than God’s?” Job 35:2


The Lord said, “Wilt thou also disannul my judgment? Wilt thou condemn me, that thou mayest be righteous?” Job 40:8


In every case Elihu said it first and the Lord repeated.


It sures seems like Elihu was speaking the truth when he said, I stand in the place of God, according to your wish.

 

[JayWalker]

I hope its not about winning, but rather truth.

Yes and in the end Truth wins.

God's Word is Truth and those that desire victory will abide IN Him.

God is a winner and His true Children are as well

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Why would I blame God for Eve having transgressed? I am not blaming God for Job having transgressed.

Eve had not transgressed prior to satan having deceived her. By the same token, satan did not afflict Job because of any transgression on Job's part. God is clear that the trial of Job was "without cause" (Job 2:3).

Yes, I believe Job praised God with his lips, while at the same time his heart was far from God.

you are sadly mistaken ... God tells us 3 times that Job was a man who was an upright man who feared God.

That word "fear" means a deep reverence and respect for God ... not, as you claim, one whose "heart was far from God".

God said, Job 40:14 Then will I also confess unto thee that thine own right hand can save thee.

I have gone over this verse with you. Both God and Job ...

vs 8 - knew Job could not disannul God's judgment ... or condemn God

vs 9 - knew Job did not have an arm like God ... nor could Job thunder with a voice like God

vs 10 - knew Job could not clothe himself with majesty, excellency, glory, beauty

vs 11 - knew Job could not behold everyone who is proud and abase him or her

vs 12 - knew Job could not bring low those who are proud and tread down the wicked in their place

vs 13 - knew Job could not hide the proud and the wicked in the dust together and bind their faces in secret

The meaning of Job 40:14 is if Job could do as is stated in vss 8-13, then God would "confess that [his] own right hand can save [him].

Job understood about cursing God with the heart. Job 1:5 -------for Job said, It may be that my sons have sinned, and cursed God in their hearts. -------.

so? ... you also apparently understand the same. does that mean you curse God in your heart?

Just because someone understands something does not mean they engage in the behavior.

Your first stumbling stone is your understanding of blameless and upright. Blameless means God wasn't holding Job accountable for his sins because Job was without knowledge. Upright means Job was trying to do what is right, and we see that he thought he was doing right when he said, Job 27:6 My righteousness I hold fast, and will not let it go: my heart shall not reproach me so long as I live. And we know his heart did reproach him when he abhorred himself in Job 42:6 Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes. This goes back to the fact that Job was without knowledge. Rom 10:2-3 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

According to Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon ...

"perfect" means whole, upright, always in a moral sense.

"upright" means upright, righteous.

While Job did not have the fullness of Scripture we have in our day and time, Job had a close relationship with God; God revealed His Word to Job; Job followed what he heard from God; and if he fell short, Job offered sacrifice and offering ... just as all believers did in Job's day.

As far as Job's claim that he abhorred himself, you misconstrue and redirect to Romans 10:2-3 ... verses which have nothing to do with Job.

Take the stumbling stone away, which is a false premise, and the book will start to open up.

your "stumbling stone which is a false premise" ... that describes your continuous assertion that Job was suffering due to some sort of sin on his part when Scripture tells us the culprit ... hint = satan ... when you understand that aspect concerning satan, maybe more than just the book of Job will open up to you.

You believe Job didn't possess the Word of God?

you have completely misrepresented what I stated. Here's what I said:

reneweddaybyday said: We have the luxury of knowing these great and marvelous truths. We have at our fingertips to read and study what neither Job nor his friends had knowledge of.​

​

If Job had lived in our day and time with the Word of God at hand to study, would he have just hunkered down in his time of trial, resting solely in the knowledge that God would see him through? In your times of trial, do you focus solely on what God is working in you as opposed to what is going on around you?​

Prior to the time the Lord Jesus Christ walked the earth God revealed through foreshadows and types. For the most part, the activities of satan were said to have been caused by God. Even at the end of Job's trial, Job's brothers, sisters, and acquaintances comforted [Job] over all the evil that the LORD had brought upon him (Job 42:11). It was satan who brought evil upon Job, not God and this is clearly stated in Job 2:7. Job's family and friends were ignorant of that fact and, sadly, some today still remain ignorant even though God's Word reveals of the working of satan.

Job 23:12 Neither have I gone back from the commandment of his lips; I have esteemed the words of his mouth more than my necessary food.

This statement by Job reveals your error in your belief that Job "praised God with his lips, while at the same time his heart was far from God".

.

 

[tttallison]

Eve had not transgressed prior to satan having deceived her. By the same token, satan did not afflict Job because of any transgression on Job's part. God is clear that the trial of Job was "without cause" (Job 2:3).

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Words have meanings, and when I am in a hurry I often misconstrue what is being said.

Look closer at your statement. You say that God said the trial of Job was without cause. Satan's cause for moving God against Job was unjust. Have you considered that God had a cause for allowing the test in the first place? In chapter 41 God asks Job if he is going to make a permanent covenant with the King over all the children of pride. If Job made a permanent covenant with the serpent, what do you think was going to happen to him? According to Elihu he would end up in the pit. Job 33:16-22 Then he openeth the ears of men, and sealeth their instruction, That he may withdraw man from his purpose, and hide pride from man. He keepeth back his soul from the pit, and his life from perishing by the sword. He is chastened also with pain upon his bed, and the multitude of his bones with strong pain: So that his life abhorreth bread, and his soul dainty meat. His flesh is consumed away, that it cannot be seen; and his bones that were not seen stick out. Yea, his soul draweth near unto the grave, and his life to the destroyers.

God's cause for allowing Job's tribulation was to save his soul. God knew Job would pass the first test, and God knew he would fail the second test. After the first test God had said Job had not sinned, After the second test God said Job did not sin with lips. After the second test did Job sin with his heart? We can't say definitively, but if he did, that would account for God's cause for allowing Job's tribulation.