What exactly is our soul?

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GWH said:
Distinct but unified, like the Triunity.
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Yes. Spirit, soul and body work together. But what governs us should be the spirit, with the soul and body responding to the leading in our spirit man. It is important to know the truth. Many believers are ruled by thought and feeling and not by the witness in their spirit. This leads to people doing "good" (in their estimation) and not doing what is right before God.
 
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Gideon300 said:
Yes. Spirit, soul and body work together. But what governs us should be the spirit, with the soul and body responding to the leading in our spirit man. It is important to know the truth. Many believers are ruled by thought and feeling and not by the witness in their spirit. This leads to people doing "good" (in their estimation) and not doing what is right before God.
Click to expand...

Yes, what governs us is the spirit, and when we repent, what governs our spirit is the HS as we cooperate. I explain it thusly:

With greater awareness because of learning the NT Gospel, when a truthseeker confesses Jesus as Messiah and Lord (Acts 20:21, Rom. 10:9), the HS indwells the convert’s heart (Rom. 5:5) and unites him/her with God as heavenly Father (Rom. 8:9)–which moment is called spiritual rebirth (John 3:3-8), baptism by the Spirit (Matt. 3:11/Mark 1:8/Luke 3:16, John 1:33, Acts 1:5, 1Cor. 12:13) and receiving the Spirit of adoption/sonship (Rom. 8:14-16). The outward evidence that someone was baptized by the HS (Rom. 5:5) and is Spirit-filled (Eph. 5:18) or walking with God is the fullness of Christ (Eph. 3:19, 4:13) or fruit of the Spirit (Gal. 5:22-23), which is signified by “love” (Gal. 5:6). Jesus said “All men will know that you are my disciples if you love one another” (John13:35, 1John 4:7-21), because divine love sums up the moral character of God (1John 4:7-8).

The personal relationship between Believers/Christians and God may be viewed as having three stages: conversion, spiritual growth or maturation (Eph. 4:13), and glorification (1Pet. 5:10) or immortality (1Cor. 15:53) in heaven. The kerygmatic prayer that is necessary in order for a sinner be saved and walk with God is confession (1John 1:9, Psa. 32:1-5). Because a convert’s commitment to Christ is in accordance with God’s perfect will (1Tim. 2:3-4), the moment of Spirit baptism fulfills the command to be filled with the Spirit (in Eph. 5:18), which means to cooperate fully with the love of God (Eph. 3:16-19) or of the HS (Rom. 15:30).

The moment or stage of conversion may be described grammatically as occurring in the past: we were saved when we repented/received the baptism of the HS. From the moment of repentance onward begins the second stage of growth, discipleship (Acts 14:22) or sanctification (2Thes. 2:13), which is present progressive: it is the process of being saved now. This stage has two phases: instability and maturity. A new convert does not achieve immediate perfection by remaining filled with the HS (Phil. 3:12). Instead, the combination of temptations, ignorance of GW and the old selfish nature results in immature saints committing post-conversion sins, at which time the are carnal or acting like unbelievers (1Cor. 3:1).

As soon as new Christians realize they sinned, they should confess it (1John 1:9a) rather than compound it by trying to hide it or cover it up like Adam and Eve did (Gen. 3:7-8). Whenever a believer acknowledges to God his/her known sins of immoral attitudes and actions, God forgives all sins (1John 1:9b). This means he/she is pleasing rather than grieving God or once again is Spirit-filled (walking in the Spirit) and has a right relationship with Christ Jesus (Eph. 4:30, 5:10 & 18). This spiritual flip-flopping is the phase of instability, and although it is bad, failure to confess promptly is much worse, because it results in chain-sinning or back-sliding, which may be called prodigal if it continues very long (cf. Luke 15:11-32).

Unfortunately, some saints may not appreciate the process of spiritual growth or being transformed by the renewing of their minds (Rom. 12:2), perhaps because it involves admitting sins or having “guilt trips”. Guilt is like a warning light, and until we gain the wisdom to welcome God’s reproof, we will not feel the satisfaction of becoming a new and improved version of ourselves (Heb. 10:19-22). Thus, guilt is good (John 9:41). Woe to the one who become so callous that no guilt is felt when wrong is done (Matt. 13:14-15)!

The unstable phase is followed eventually by a second phase in a believer’s relationship with God’s HS of relative maturity, signified in the Bible (especially the KJV) by the phrase “walking with God” (cf. Enoch in Gen. 5:24) or walking in light (1John 1:7). Paul also described this phase as walking in love (Eph. 5:2), in a new life (Rom. 6:4) according to the Spirit (Rom. 8:4) and in good works (Col. 1:10).

Like physical walking, spiritual walking has two steps. The first step is listening to God (LGW), and the second step is responding to or cooperating with God. God’s message for mankind is revealed partially by the world He has created but more fully by the Scriptures He has inspired. The crux of God’s Word is the Gospel of salvation (kerygma), while the secondary teachings (didache) consist of the manifold applications of the law of love (1John 3:11). The Believer’s main types of responses to God’s Word are prayer to God and good works unto others for God (cf. 1John 4:20, Eph. 2:10).
 
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GWH said:
Yes, what governs us is the spirit, and when we repent, what governs our spirit is the HS as we cooperate. I explain it thusly:

With greater awareness because of learning the NT Gospel, when a truthseeker confesses Jesus as Messiah and Lord (Acts 20:21, Rom. 10:9), the HS indwells the convert’s heart (Rom. 5:5) and unites him/her with God as heavenly Father (Rom. 8:9)–which moment is called spiritual rebirth (John 3:3-8), baptism by the Spirit (Matt. 3:11/Mark 1:8/Luke 3:16, John 1:33, Acts 1:5, 1Cor. 12:13) and receiving the Spirit of adoption/sonship (Rom. 8:14-16). The outward evidence that someone was baptized by the HS (Rom. 5:5) and is Spirit-filled (Eph. 5:18) or walking with God is the fullness of Christ (Eph. 3:19, 4:13) or fruit of the Spirit (Gal. 5:22-23), which is signified by “love” (Gal. 5:6). Jesus said “All men will know that you are my disciples if you love one another” (John13:35, 1John 4:7-21), because divine love sums up the moral character of God (1John 4:7-8).

The personal relationship between Believers/Christians and God may be viewed as having three stages: conversion, spiritual growth or maturation (Eph. 4:13), and glorification (1Pet. 5:10) or immortality (1Cor. 15:53) in heaven. The kerygmatic prayer that is necessary in order for a sinner be saved and walk with God is confession (1John 1:9, Psa. 32:1-5). Because a convert’s commitment to Christ is in accordance with God’s perfect will (1Tim. 2:3-4), the moment of Spirit baptism fulfills the command to be filled with the Spirit (in Eph. 5:18), which means to cooperate fully with the love of God (Eph. 3:16-19) or of the HS (Rom. 15:30).

The moment or stage of conversion may be described grammatically as occurring in the past: we were saved when we repented/received the baptism of the HS. From the moment of repentance onward begins the second stage of growth, discipleship (Acts 14:22) or sanctification (2Thes. 2:13), which is present progressive: it is the process of being saved now. This stage has two phases: instability and maturity. A new convert does not achieve immediate perfection by remaining filled with the HS (Phil. 3:12). Instead, the combination of temptations, ignorance of GW and the old selfish nature results in immature saints committing post-conversion sins, at which time the are carnal or acting like unbelievers (1Cor. 3:1).

As soon as new Christians realize they sinned, they should confess it (1John 1:9a) rather than compound it by trying to hide it or cover it up like Adam and Eve did (Gen. 3:7-8). Whenever a believer acknowledges to God his/her known sins of immoral attitudes and actions, God forgives all sins (1John 1:9b). This means he/she is pleasing rather than grieving God or once again is Spirit-filled (walking in the Spirit) and has a right relationship with Christ Jesus (Eph. 4:30, 5:10 & 18). This spiritual flip-flopping is the phase of instability, and although it is bad, failure to confess promptly is much worse, because it results in chain-sinning or back-sliding, which may be called prodigal if it continues very long (cf. Luke 15:11-32).

Unfortunately, some saints may not appreciate the process of spiritual growth or being transformed by the renewing of their minds (Rom. 12:2), perhaps because it involves admitting sins or having “guilt trips”. Guilt is like a warning light, and until we gain the wisdom to welcome God’s reproof, we will not feel the satisfaction of becoming a new and improved version of ourselves (Heb. 10:19-22). Thus, guilt is good (John 9:41). Woe to the one who become so callous that no guilt is felt when wrong is done (Matt. 13:14-15)!

The unstable phase is followed eventually by a second phase in a believer’s relationship with God’s HS of relative maturity, signified in the Bible (especially the KJV) by the phrase “walking with God” (cf. Enoch in Gen. 5:24) or walking in light (1John 1:7). Paul also described this phase as walking in love (Eph. 5:2), in a new life (Rom. 6:4) according to the Spirit (Rom. 8:4) and in good works (Col. 1:10).

Like physical walking, spiritual walking has two steps. The first step is listening to God (LGW), and the second step is responding to or cooperating with God. God’s message for mankind is revealed partially by the world He has created but more fully by the Scriptures He has inspired. The crux of God’s Word is the Gospel of salvation (kerygma), while the secondary teachings (didache) consist of the manifold applications of the law of love (1John 3:11). The Believer’s main types of responses to God’s Word are prayer to God and good works unto others for God (cf. 1John 4:20, Eph. 2:10).
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A good explanation. You put a lot into it and I appreciate it.
 
jacko said:

📖 Old Testament (Hebrew)​

Nephesh (נֶפֶשׁ)​

Meaning:
  • Soul
  • Life
  • Living being / person
  • Breath
  • Inner self (mind, emotions, desires)
Key idea:
In Hebrew thinking, nephesh does not mean a separate “ghost-like” part of you—it often means the whole living person.
Example:
  • Genesis 2:7
    “Man became a living soul (nephesh)”
👉 This shows:
  • Man became a soul (not “received” one as a separate entity)

📖 New Testament (Greek)​

Psyche (ψυχή)​

Meaning:
  • Soul
  • Life
  • Self
  • Mind / heart
  • Personhood
Key idea:
Psyche carries a similar meaning to nephesh—it often refers to life itself or the inner being, not just an immortal essence.
Example:
  • Matthew 16:26
    “What shall it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul (psyche)?”

⚖️ Important Insight​

Both nephesh and psyche:
  • Can mean life (not just “soul”)
  • Can refer to a person as a whole
  • Can include emotions, desires, and identity

🧠 Summary (Simple)​

LanguageWordCore Meaning
HebrewNepheshLiving being / life / person
GreekPsycheLife / self / inner being
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Well said. I believe the entire biblical library conceptualizes a fully conscious fully functioning human after death in what Paul refers to a new body. However, that still leaves a biological gap that is not closed. When we die all of we are is erased as our brains die. So even in Paul's new body there is no connection to the you who existed before your death. To receive divine post mortem Judgement the accused before God must be able to remember all the items in God's indictment for the life you once lived. If your post mortem life does not contain your human brain how can you be held accountable? Is the answer that God is recording every detail of every human life and when we go to judgment we will just have to accept whatever we are told we did or didn't do as we will no method of "remembering" anything? If so, how can heaven be a reward? We could only heaven as a reward if we remembered what we once experienced that was not heaven. In the same way, how can hell be a punishment if we have no personal idea of what we are being punished for. How can the pain and suffering in hell not seem novel and new as all the threat of hell is based on what it would be like if we still had our human body to experience burning sulphur. How can a spirit of us, but not actual us, experience pleasure or pain absent the earthly human body that provided the framework for understanding and experiencing either?
 
ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
The soul exists and can communicate (hear and speak) apart from the body

And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls (ψυχή) of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled. Revelation 6:9-11​
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You consider this literal? Are these people in graves? Are they the ones demanding that Jesus torture and murder so that a river of blood as high as a horse's bridle will flow as a river for 200 miles? Was this their idea? Humanity is tortured by Jesus for five months by demonic, locust-like creatures with scorpion tails. The pain is described as being "like the torment of a scorpion when it stings a person". The suffering is so intense that people will seek death, but cannot find it. Loathsome and malignant sores affliction. Jesus will destroy all fife in the seas, and water sources become blood, causing thirst and destruction. Jesus will torcher people who will be scorched with fire from the sun, leading them to curse God. After the sounding of the fifth trumpet Jesus releases a supernatural army from the "bottomless pit." These creatures are described as locusts with human faces, women's hair, lions' teeth, and breastplates of iron. Those commanded by Jesus are specifically commanded not to kill but to torment those who do not have the "seal of God" on their foreheads.

This is what Jesus has become in your form of religion?
 
ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
Are you in denial that these things will come to pass according to God's plan? They are no different than his wiping out of humanity in the flood.
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No I do not. However, biblical scholarship understands the genre of Revelation as "Apocryphal." This genre includes many non-canonical books because they are written for the people of their time to give them hope in their faith, but periodic persecutions under Nero. The obvious purpose is to give hope to those segments of Christianity that were feeling persecuted in Roman times in a format that Rome would not recognize. The battle for allowing the book of Revelation into the cannon had nothing to do with it's message. In the 4th Century the issue of eastern, western and southern Christianity was the "what is the nature of Christ, and God. Revelation was rejected by most early Christian Churches because it described Christ as the same persecuting deity as the Roman Empire. If you were from a Jewish heritage, it was a description of revenge for the Romans who had destroyed Judaism killing millions in the process. But more importantly, former Jewish Christians wanted to see God as "Vengeful" capable of inflicting the horrors on them as they did on "us."

Then in the early 3 hundreds C,E., the Roman Empire needed a stabilizing state religion. Christianity stepped up although their widely diverse geography and bittering theology made the Roman Cesare demand unity. Thus the Council of Nicea in 325. 318 est Christian Bishops came to Nicea and tried to settle two issues.

1. Were God and Jesus of the same "essence."
2. What would forevermore be the process by which Christians celebrate Easter. (The Gregorina vs the the Roman Calendar)

The Book of Revelation, written around 95-96, was opposed by the Alexandrian Church and the Churches in western Europe was generally accepted into the New Testament canon during the late 4th century (roughly 367–400 AD), appearing in Athanasius’s list of 397 AD and the Council of Carthage in 397 AD. While early church fathers accepted it, some questioned its inclusion later. Revelation was accepted into the Christian canon last, mostly because it presented a God and Savior committed to vengeance, punishment and depravity of human suffering.

Revelation mostly disappeared as a Christian theology until it was revived in the persecution of Protestant "heretics" as determined by first the Roman Church and the Eastern Church. Revelation was a leading theological justification for the 3 major Crusades which killed 100's of thousands. The "Christians" were "guaranteed heaven" if they just killed enough"Infidels" using Revelation as a pre-text.

When both the Roman Church and the Eastern Church needed to protect their massive wealth and land holdings, both genned up support with the , "We are fighting Armageddon" to win God's eternal favor. Revelation provide the permission for torcher, murder and enslavement for the next 450yrs were "errant Christians, Infidels and fallen Christians were burned at the stake to save their souls by torturing their bodies based on Revelation. When Christians invaded the New World, they made slaves of those they "captured." Then used Christian Priests to lead them on an Armageddon-like murdering quest for Gold and Silver.

In the big picture of history, more humans have been torchered, maimed and burned quoting Revelation as their "justification' for the rape, murder and pillaging of native societies around the world. I am not a big fan of how "Christians" have used Revelation to exploit the earth in the name of God.
 
biblestudent78 said:
No I do not. However, biblical scholarship understands the genre of Revelation as "Apocryphal." This genre includes many non-canonical books because they are written for the people of their time to give them hope in their faith, but periodic persecutions under Nero. The obvious purpose is to give hope to those segments of Christianity that were feeling persecuted in Roman times in a format that Rome would not recognize. The battle for allowing the book of Revelation into the cannon had nothing to do with it's message. In the 4th Century the issue of eastern, western and southern Christianity was the "what is the nature of Christ, and God. Revelation was rejected by most early Christian Churches because it described Christ as the same persecuting deity as the Roman Empire. If you were from a Jewish heritage, it was a description of revenge for the Romans who had destroyed Judaism killing millions in the process. But more importantly, former Jewish Christians wanted to see God as "Vengeful" capable of inflicting the horrors on them as they did on "us."

Then in the early 3 hundreds C,E., the Roman Empire needed a stabilizing state religion. Christianity stepped up although their widely diverse geography and bittering theology made the Roman Cesare demand unity. Thus the Council of Nicea in 325. 318 est Christian Bishops came to Nicea and tried to settle two issues.

1. Were God and Jesus of the same "essence."
2. What would forevermore be the process by which Christians celebrate Easter. (The Gregorina vs the the Roman Calendar)

The Book of Revelation, written around 95-96, was opposed by the Alexandrian Church and the Churches in western Europe was generally accepted into the New Testament canon during the late 4th century (roughly 367–400 AD), appearing in Athanasius’s list of 397 AD and the Council of Carthage in 397 AD. While early church fathers accepted it, some questioned its inclusion later. Revelation was accepted into the Christian canon last, mostly because it presented a God and Savior committed to vengeance, punishment and depravity of human suffering.

Revelation mostly disappeared as a Christian theology until it was revived in the persecution of Protestant "heretics" as determined by first the Roman Church and the Eastern Church. Revelation was a leading theological justification for the 3 major Crusades which killed 100's of thousands. The "Christians" were "guaranteed heaven" if they just killed enough"Infidels" using Revelation as a pre-text.

When both the Roman Church and the Eastern Church needed to protect their massive wealth and land holdings, both genned up support with the , "We are fighting Armageddon" to win God's eternal favor. Revelation provide the permission for torcher, murder and enslavement for the next 450yrs were "errant Christians, Infidels and fallen Christians were burned at the stake to save their souls by torturing their bodies based on Revelation. When Christians invaded the New World, they made slaves of those they "captured." Then used Christian Priests to lead them on an Armageddon-like murdering quest for Gold and Silver.

In the big picture of history, more humans have been torchered, maimed and burned quoting Revelation as their "justification' for the rape, murder and pillaging of native societies around the world. I am not a big fan of how "Christians" have used Revelation to exploit the earth in the name of God.
Click to expand...

Most of this is lost on me because I believe Revelation is to us (the body of Christ) what the OT was to natural Israel. God does nothing that he doesn't first reveal to his prophets, and I believe Revelation is that revelation of what would/will happen from the 1st century until Christ's return, and beyond.
 
biblestudent78 said:
No I do not. However, biblical scholarship understands the genre of Revelation as "Apocryphal."
Click to expand...
The Apocrypha refers to a specific collection of intertestamental books considered non-canonical or
deuterocanonical by various Christian traditions, often seen as "hidden" or secondary. Conversely,
apocalyptic is a literary genre (e.g., Daniel, Revelation) defined by symbolic, visionary writing
revealing heavenly mysteries or the end of the world.
 
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Just what a soul is gets very deep into metaphysics. The question of whether or not animals have souls is also a difficult one, but the Bible does refer to a dead lion as a dead "nephesh" one time, which would imply to me that animals do have souls (or else that someone tampered with that specific passage).

Personally, I consider the soul to be the independent (of the brain) consciousness of an individual human and the spirit something of a shared higher existence involving two or more souls. There is some fairly recent and obscure science suggesting this, although some in here disregard it based on the online reviews by those who oppose it, most of the objections are addressed in the literature of those who support the science, but the skeptics ignore and do not acknowledge this.
 
ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
This raises an interesting question: do animals have souls?
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It is a definitely a thought provoking question. I firmly hold that they have a spirit. Meaning they have an awareness of being.

"... O God, the God of the spirits of all flesh,.." Num 16:22
"...the LORD, the God of the spirits of all flesh,..." Num 27:16

However, that raises the question on whether all men have souls.
 
GWH said:
Those are all good questions, but Paul did not go into detail when saying the physical body becomes an immortal/spiritual body,
presumably in order to be judged.
I guess evil spirits would have memories of sins, and forgiven spirits would have memories of learning God's Word,
which is the purpose of earthly existence.
Jesus indicated that resurrected bodies would not have sexual organs, because there is no marriage in heaven.

When Scripture speaks of being indwelt by the HS, I think being united with the human spirit makes more sense.
Sinners have MFW, which cooperates with GW when they repent and are indwelt/Spirit baptized.
Saving faith/belief/MFW means willingness to be made morally righteous by the Lord, no matter how sinful we were.
It is a perfect deal, called divine grace. :love:
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Marriage is not just for sex. But Genesis tells us that there is physiological sexual capability in at least the male residents of heaven (sons of God). It would be difficult to have highly sexed men in heaven without sexually available women, but of course to the male writers of these scriptures, what women need or want is of no importance. So, Genesis describes sexually overstimulated sons of God in heaven who are willing to leave heaven (fly?) to earth to breed with human women and from those unions children are born. Where is the Holy Spirit in this endeavor? Not mentioned. Where is Jesus in this story? None. Strange as it may seem, if you believe the Genesis story, Jesus was not the first son of God to come to earth.

Throughout the Hebrew Bible heavenly beings we call angels both represent God and then turn into God. Think the burning bush angel/God. This Jacob wrestling all night with angel that turns out to God. Abram's slave was confronted by an "angel" but she tells everyone that she talked to God. The angel stops Abraham from sacrificing Isaac and says, "...you have not withheld your son... from me," acting as God. The angel appears to Gideon, and the text subsequently identifies the messenger as the Lord (YHWH).

Are there different kinds of angels, ones that are God and others that are not God?

As to the population of heaven, we have several categories or types but there is never a mention of souls of any kind. Even though Enoch and Elijah did not die but went straight to heaven, body and soul but we never hear from them again. The bible describes a population in heaven in which there are no human souls mentioned.
 
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GWH said:
Yes, what governs us is the spirit, and when we repent, what governs our spirit is the HS as we cooperate. I explain it thusly:

With greater awareness because of learning the NT Gospel, when a truthseeker confesses Jesus as Messiah and Lord (Acts 20:21, Rom. 10:9), the HS indwells the convert’s heart (Rom. 5:5) and unites him/her with God as heavenly Father (Rom. 8:9)–which moment is called spiritual rebirth (John 3:3-8), baptism by the Spirit (Matt. 3:11/Mark 1:8/Luke 3:16, John 1:33, Acts 1:5, 1Cor. 12:13) and receiving the Spirit of adoption/sonship (Rom. 8:14-16). The outward evidence that someone was baptized by the HS (Rom. 5:5) and is Spirit-filled (Eph. 5:18) or walking with God is the fullness of Christ (Eph. 3:19, 4:13) or fruit of the Spirit (Gal. 5:22-23), which is signified by “love” (Gal. 5:6). Jesus said “All men will know that you are my disciples if you love one another” (John13:35, 1John 4:7-21), because divine love sums up the moral character of God (1John 4:7-8).

The personal relationship between Believers/Christians and God may be viewed as having three stages: conversion, spiritual growth or maturation (Eph. 4:13), and glorification (1Pet. 5:10) or immortality (1Cor. 15:53) in heaven. The kerygmatic prayer that is necessary in order for a sinner be saved and walk with God is confession (1John 1:9, Psa. 32:1-5). Because a convert’s commitment to Christ is in accordance with God’s perfect will (1Tim. 2:3-4), the moment of Spirit baptism fulfills the command to be filled with the Spirit (in Eph. 5:18), which means to cooperate fully with the love of God (Eph. 3:16-19) or of the HS (Rom. 15:30).

The moment or stage of conversion may be described grammatically as occurring in the past: we were saved when we repented/received the baptism of the HS. From the moment of repentance onward begins the second stage of growth, discipleship (Acts 14:22) or sanctification (2Thes. 2:13), which is present progressive: it is the process of being saved now. This stage has two phases: instability and maturity. A new convert does not achieve immediate perfection by remaining filled with the HS (Phil. 3:12). Instead, the combination of temptations, ignorance of GW and the old selfish nature results in immature saints committing post-conversion sins, at which time the are carnal or acting like unbelievers (1Cor. 3:1).

As soon as new Christians realize they sinned, they should confess it (1John 1:9a) rather than compound it by trying to hide it or cover it up like Adam and Eve did (Gen. 3:7-8). Whenever a believer acknowledges to God his/her known sins of immoral attitudes and actions, God forgives all sins (1John 1:9b). This means he/she is pleasing rather than grieving God or once again is Spirit-filled (walking in the Spirit) and has a right relationship with Christ Jesus (Eph. 4:30, 5:10 & 18). This spiritual flip-flopping is the phase of instability, and although it is bad, failure to confess promptly is much worse, because it results in chain-sinning or back-sliding, which may be called prodigal if it continues very long (cf. Luke 15:11-32).

Unfortunately, some saints may not appreciate the process of spiritual growth or being transformed by the renewing of their minds (Rom. 12:2), perhaps because it involves admitting sins or having “guilt trips”. Guilt is like a warning light, and until we gain the wisdom to welcome God’s reproof, we will not feel the satisfaction of becoming a new and improved version of ourselves (Heb. 10:19-22). Thus, guilt is good (John 9:41). Woe to the one who become so callous that no guilt is felt when wrong is done (Matt. 13:14-15)!

The unstable phase is followed eventually by a second phase in a believer’s relationship with God’s HS of relative maturity, signified in the Bible (especially the KJV) by the phrase “walking with God” (cf. Enoch in Gen. 5:24) or walking in light (1John 1:7). Paul also described this phase as walking in love (Eph. 5:2), in a new life (Rom. 6:4) according to the Spirit (Rom. 8:4) and in good works (Col. 1:10).

Like physical walking, spiritual walking has two steps. The first step is listening to God (LGW), and the second step is responding to or cooperating with God. God’s message for mankind is revealed partially by the world He has created but more fully by the Scriptures He has inspired. The crux of God’s Word is the Gospel of salvation (kerygma), while the secondary teachings (didache) consist of the manifold applications of the law of love (1John 3:11). The Believer’s main types of responses to God’s Word are prayer to God and good works unto others for God (cf. 1John 4:20, Eph. 2:10).
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As usual. I link happily with you theology. However, I want you to think about a few things. The question is, what is you soul. This seems very important because this is the core value of Christianity. i.e. Saving souls. I find it interesting that there is little about souls" as it relates to Christians. In what sense, absent the body and its memories and unremembered "sins," its widely variable experiences in time and place, do our souls take account for something, absent the body, which has no way of "knowing" before or after its physical death. There are no "souls" in heaven according to the Hebrew Bible. You've got horney male angels, angels the are really God etc. Even Enoch and Elijah who went directly to heaven are never mentioned again.

You have done a good job of hermeneutically tracking disparate references to the population of heaven (Didache excepted) but not about souls. You have tracked an ancient editorial about how you might get there but nothing about the huge difference between who you were as a human being and absent all your human orientation, who "you" do or don't become and the relationship between the two.
 
biblestudent78 said:
As usual. I link happily with you theology. However, I want you to think about a few things. The question is, what is you soul. This seems very important because this is the core value of Christianity. i.e. Saving souls. I find it interesting that there is little about souls" as it relates to Christians. In what sense, absent the body and its memories and unremembered "sins," its widely variable experiences in time and place, do our souls take account for something, absent the body, which has no way of "knowing" before or after its physical death. There are no "souls" in heaven according to the Hebrew Bible. You've got horney male angels, angels the are really God etc. Even Enoch and Elijah who went directly to heaven are never mentioned again.

You have done a good job of hermeneutically tracking disparate references to the population of heaven (Didache excepted) but not about souls. You have tracked an ancient editorial about how you might get there but nothing about the huge difference between who you were as a human being and absent all your human orientation, who "you" do or don't become and the relationship between the two.
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Frankly, I view the reference to sons of God as one of those problematic parts of Scripture on which we should not base doctrine,
but wait until heaven to see what the heck was going on. In the meantime, I prefer to believe the story/teaching of Jesus.

As you may have noticed, I have similar questions regarding the roles and salvation history of angels, who sometimes seem to rival the role of the HS in representing/manifesting God, as you noted.

Yes, creatures including angels are not consistently called souls, which per Gen. 2:7 = body + spirit. Both are saved, although the earthly body will be transformed into a heavenly or spiritual body per 1Cor. 15;35-44, and the human spirit will be united with the HS.

Regarding memories: Somehow the Lord must include those in the resurrected body. (Trans-human researchers are trying to perform that miracle/do that as we speak.)

Re "There are no "souls" in heaven according to the Hebrew Bible.": No, in heaven the soul will still be the spiritual body plus spirit of life/eternal life. I guess we will meet Enoch, Elijah and every other saved soul when we get there.

Re "You have done a good job of hermeneutically tracking disparate references": Thanks. It is the result of making notes in the margins as I read the Bible four times in different translations.

Re "(Didache excepted) but not about souls. You have tracked an ancient editorial about how you might get there but nothing about the huge difference between who you were as a human being and absent all your human orientation, who "you" do or don't become and the relationship between the two.": You lost me. Please clarify this part.
 
Breath, life, self, the individual.

In some cases, a word translated 'soul' in one place might refer to a carcass in another.
 
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