How the idea of Immortal Soul got into the Church

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

There is a judgement to fear. And also much to loss.
no there isn't because when i die i get annihilated and cease to exists. you cant have i both ways... "yeah you suffer a little bit then your annihilated..." either way if the damned received complete annihilation then i could care less what god has to say or desires because ultimately i will not exists to remember... Lets live it up big time. I lose nothing i cease to exists. i wont be around to care

punishment is pointless even if it for a short duration when we would know hey i get to exit into 0blivion nothing about me will exists or remember... the threat is real if it is heaven or hell eternally. I dont weant an eternity in hell, but ill take "a short period to be punished and then *poof* i am no more" any day of the week so that i can party like a rock star 24/7

aside from that diatribe... you must not have actually read my long post.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Gideon300
second John 3:15-16is not saying that the non-believer will not have eternal life. There will be people in hell. Eternal Torment, means eternally tormented.,. indicating alive in some form of punishment, usually equated with a compartment in hell.
Joh 3:15-16
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

Why didn't He say "everyone" will have eternal life, some in everlasting pain and some in peace.. He said shall not perish because it is clear that the unbelieving do perish..

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Two options, perish or everlasting life.

Hell (eternal torment) is a pagan concept that the Catholic church introduced.

Forever and everlasting is often misused.
Jud 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Sodom is not burning today.. the effect was everlasting but not the flames.
The same applies for the unsaved, the effect of their judgment will be everlasting death. Not everlasting suffering.

Judgement happens when Christ returns and for the wicked it is after the 1000 years.
John 6:39
At the last day. 44, 54,
1 Cor 15:22,23
After Christ, at His coming.

Matt 13:40-42
Wheat and Tares at the end of the world.

Malachi 4:1-3
Will be consumed....

But the best verse to show that the dead are not conscious is.
Ecc 9:5-6
5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. 6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.
 
We will soon see

If God is going to give life to those He created, so that they can suffer for ever and ever, because of a their time on earth. The is not just or fair, and that is a cruel God.

Or if God will raise the wicked and allow them to see the pain they caused to God, other people and themselves. Judged with perfect justice and finally annihilated.

When you stand before Jesus as a sinner it is impossible to hide your guilt.

We will see when that day comes..
I'm not motivated by fear of eternal suffering. My motivation is LOVE for Jesus.
 
Joh 3:15-16
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

Why didn't He say "everyone" will have eternal life, some in everlasting pain and some in peace.. He said shall not perish because it is clear that the unbelieving do perish..

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Two options, perish or everlasting life.

Hell (eternal torment) is a pagan concept that the Catholic church introduced.

Forever and everlasting is often misused.
Jud 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Sodom is not burning today.. the effect was everlasting but not the flames.
The same applies for the unsaved, the effect of their judgment will be everlasting death. Not everlasting suffering.

Judgement happens when Christ returns and for the wicked it is after the 1000 years.
John 6:39
At the last day. 44, 54,
1 Cor 15:22,23
After Christ, at His coming.

Matt 13:40-42
Wheat and Tares at the end of the world.

Malachi 4:1-3
Will be consumed....

But the best verse to show that the dead are not conscious is.
Ecc 9:5-6
5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. 6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.
you apparently6 didnt read the article i posted it counters pretty much everything you said.
 
Souls are mortal until they die and become immortal when they are resurrected on Judgment Day.
At the Judgment unsaved immortal souls will be consigned to destruction in hell after justice is achieved
(per John 17:12, Rom. 9:22, Gal. 6:8, Phil. 3:19, 2Thes. 1:9, 2Pet. 3:7 & Rev. 20:13-14), while saved immortal souls
will spend eternity in heaven (John 3:16, etc.). Halleluyay!
Look at what you put, " unsaved immortal souls ", the wicked do not get eternal life. The Bible does not teach that, only Gods faithful get the gift of eternal life.

John 3:15-16
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

The saints get eternal/everlasting life, the wicked perish in the lake of fire.
 
The Bible doesn’t teach that people have immortal souls but many believe it. So how did this teaching enter Christian thinking, where did this corruption originate and how did it spread into the churh. As God made man in his own image, but did not make him immortal or of the same substance that he possesses. Our Creator is composed of spirit and is eternal, they are not in anyway immortal of their own self. Humans were made out of the dust basically theground or organic substance that constitutes the earth. Adam only became a living being, but not an immortal soul, when God breathed life into him

The first lie, in the Garden of Eden, the devil wanted Eve to believe revolves around the concept of an immortal soul. Eve stated she was instructed not to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil or else she would die.

Satan countered that God was lying and that she would not perish. We see that this lie has spread even into Christians today. God's justification for casting Adam and Eve out of the Garden was, "lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever".

If all humans automatically have a soul that is immortal then barring them from the Tree of Life would not make a difference since they would already possess something that would keep them alive into the future. If, however, Adam and Eve did not possess an immortal soul that allowed them to live forever, then God's concern about them acquiring this ability is justified.

Here is one of the best explanation I have come across and every believer should carefully go through it and understand how this deception came into the church from what can only be called pagan Greek thought. 'Secular history reveals that the concept of the immortality of the soul is an ancient belief embraced by many pagan religions. But it's not a biblical teaching and is not found in either the Old or New Testaments....

"Despite widespread use of the phrase immortal soul, this terminology is found nowhere in the Bible. Where did the idea of an immortal soul originate?

The concept of the soul's supposed immortality was first taught in ancient Egypt and Babylon. "The belief that the soul continues in existence after the dissolution of the body is...speculation...nowhere expressly taught in Holy Scripture...The belief in the immortality of the soul came to the Jews from contact with Greek thought and chiefly through the philosophy of Plato, its principal exponent, who was led to it through Orphic and Eleusinian mysteries in which Babylonian and Egyptian views were strangely blended" (Jewish Encyclopedia, 1941, Vol. 6, "Immortality of the Soul," pp. 564, 566).
Secular history reveals that the concept of the immortality of the soul is an ancient belief embraced by many pagan religions. But it's not a biblical teaching and is not found in either the Old or New Testaments.

Plato (428-348 B.C.), the Greek philosopher and student of Socrates, taught that the body and the "immortal soul" separate at death. The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia comments on ancient Israel's view of the soul: "We are influenced always more or less by the Greek, Platonic idea that the body dies, yet the soul is immortal. Such an idea is utterly contrary to the Israelite consciousness and is nowhere found in the Old Testament" (1960, Vol. 2, "Death," p. 812).

Early Christianity was influenced and corrupted by Greek philosophies as it spread through the Greek and Roman world. By A.D. 200 the doctrine of the immortality of the soul became a controversy among Christian believers.

The Evangelical Dictionary of Theology notes that Origen, an early and influential Catholic theologian, was influenced by Greek thinkers: "Speculation about the soul in the subapostolic church was heavily influenced by Greek philosophy. This is seen in Origen's acceptance of Plato's doctrine of the preexistence of the soul as pure mind (nous) originally, which, by reason of its fall from God, cooled down to soul (psyche) when it lost its participation in the divine fire by looking earthward" (1992, "Soul," p. 1037).

Secular history reveals that the concept of the immortality of the soul is an ancient belief embraced by many pagan religions. But it's not a biblical teaching and is not found in either the Old or New Testaments."

Only God has immortality, we wait for the gift of eternal life at the resurrection. The Bible teaches that the dead are dead, that the dead cannot communicate with the living, the soul that sins dies, and that immortality is a gift from God, who alone has immortality and gives the gift to the righteous at His second coming. But of their own self man does not have it..

"...the soul that sinneth, it shall die." Ezekiel 18:4

"...the King of kings, and Lord of lords; Who only hath immortality," 1 Timothy 6:15-16

"Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory." 1 Corinthians 15:51-54
You might want to learn what the soul of man actually is.
Do you know what the spirit man is?
What about the hidden Man?
The old and new man?
Even as the heart never sleeps, the soul never dies. It just gets translated with the hidden man.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Gideon300
The Bible doesn’t teach that people have immortal souls but many believe it. So how did this teaching enter Christian thinking, where did this corruption originate and how did it spread into the churh. As God made man in his own image, but did not make him immortal or of the same substance that he possesses. Our Creator is composed of spirit and is eternal, they are not in anyway immortal of their own self. Humans were made out of the dust basically theground or organic substance that constitutes the earth. Adam only became a living being, but not an immortal soul, when God breathed life into him

The first lie, in the Garden of Eden, the devil wanted Eve to believe revolves around the concept of an immortal soul. Eve stated she was instructed not to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil or else she would die.

Satan countered that God was lying and that she would not perish. We see that this lie has spread even into Christians today. God's justification for casting Adam and Eve out of the Garden was, "lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever".

If all humans automatically have a soul that is immortal then barring them from the Tree of Life would not make a difference since they would already possess something that would keep them alive into the future. If, however, Adam and Eve did not possess an immortal soul that allowed them to live forever, then God's concern about them acquiring this ability is justified.

Here is one of the best explanation I have come across and every believer should carefully go through it and understand how this deception came into the church from what can only be called pagan Greek thought. 'Secular history reveals that the concept of the immortality of the soul is an ancient belief embraced by many pagan religions. But it's not a biblical teaching and is not found in either the Old or New Testaments....

"Despite widespread use of the phrase immortal soul, this terminology is found nowhere in the Bible. Where did the idea of an immortal soul originate?

The concept of the soul's supposed immortality was first taught in ancient Egypt and Babylon. "The belief that the soul continues in existence after the dissolution of the body is...speculation...nowhere expressly taught in Holy Scripture...The belief in the immortality of the soul came to the Jews from contact with Greek thought and chiefly through the philosophy of Plato, its principal exponent, who was led to it through Orphic and Eleusinian mysteries in which Babylonian and Egyptian views were strangely blended" (Jewish Encyclopedia, 1941, Vol. 6, "Immortality of the Soul," pp. 564, 566).
Secular history reveals that the concept of the immortality of the soul is an ancient belief embraced by many pagan religions. But it's not a biblical teaching and is not found in either the Old or New Testaments.

Plato (428-348 B.C.), the Greek philosopher and student of Socrates, taught that the body and the "immortal soul" separate at death. The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia comments on ancient Israel's view of the soul: "We are influenced always more or less by the Greek, Platonic idea that the body dies, yet the soul is immortal. Such an idea is utterly contrary to the Israelite consciousness and is nowhere found in the Old Testament" (1960, Vol. 2, "Death," p. 812).

Early Christianity was influenced and corrupted by Greek philosophies as it spread through the Greek and Roman world. By A.D. 200 the doctrine of the immortality of the soul became a controversy among Christian believers.

The Evangelical Dictionary of Theology notes that Origen, an early and influential Catholic theologian, was influenced by Greek thinkers: "Speculation about the soul in the subapostolic church was heavily influenced by Greek philosophy. This is seen in Origen's acceptance of Plato's doctrine of the preexistence of the soul as pure mind (nous) originally, which, by reason of its fall from God, cooled down to soul (psyche) when it lost its participation in the divine fire by looking earthward" (1992, "Soul," p. 1037).

Secular history reveals that the concept of the immortality of the soul is an ancient belief embraced by many pagan religions. But it's not a biblical teaching and is not found in either the Old or New Testaments."

Only God has immortality, we wait for the gift of eternal life at the resurrection. The Bible teaches that the dead are dead, that the dead cannot communicate with the living, the soul that sins dies, and that immortality is a gift from God, who alone has immortality and gives the gift to the righteous at His second coming. But of their own self man does not have it..

"...the soul that sinneth, it shall die." Ezekiel 18:4

"...the King of kings, and Lord of lords; Who only hath immortality," 1 Timothy 6:15-16

"Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory." 1 Corinthians 15:51-54
So you believe that man was created a two part being? Only body and soul? When God breathed life into Adam it had to be the spirit of God because God is spirit. I think we are three part beings: spirit which is the eternal part, soul which is our mind, will, and emotions, and then body which is the house we live in,
Romans 8:9
You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him.

And ICorinthians 2 “
“What no eye has seen, nor ear heard,
nor the heart of man imagined,
what God has prepared for those who love him”—
these things God has revealed to us through the Spirit. For the Spirit searches everything, even the depths of God. For who knows a person’s thoughts except the spirit of that person, which is in him? So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might understand the things freely given us by God. And we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who are spiritual.

If we understand things by the spirit wouldn’t our spirit (the part of us that is like God) be in tune with Holy Spirit or the spirit of God? When we surrender our lives to Christ, our spirit, which was dead in sin, He made alive. Romans 12:2 says to be be renewed in out mind which is our soul, our flesh which must be brought under submission to the spirit of God in us. We are the temple of the Holy Spirit and the spirit of God lives in us. We are spirit, we have a soul, and we live in a body. Anyway, that’s Written in John 17 that Jesus was grieved in his spirit. So that’s my two cents. I stand by thr belief that we are immortal, eternal beings whose breath has been breathed into us by God. I guess now it’s open season on me, huh? 😉. But this is my stand…
 
The Bible doesn’t teach that people have immortal souls but many believe it. So how did this teaching enter Christian thinking, where did this corruption originate and how did it spread into the churh. As God made man in his own image, but did not make him immortal or of the same substance that he possesses. Our Creator is composed of spirit and is eternal, they are not in anyway immortal of their own self. Humans were made out of the dust basically theground or organic substance that constitutes the earth. Adam only became a living being, but not an immortal soul, when God breathed life into him

The first lie, in the Garden of Eden, the devil wanted Eve to believe revolves around the concept of an immortal soul. Eve stated she was instructed not to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil or else she would die.

Satan countered that God was lying and that she would not perish. We see that this lie has spread even into Christians today. God's justification for casting Adam and Eve out of the Garden was, "lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever".

If all humans automatically have a soul that is immortal then barring them from the Tree of Life would not make a difference since they would already possess something that would keep them alive into the future. If, however, Adam and Eve did not possess an immortal soul that allowed them to live forever, then God's concern about them acquiring this ability is justified.

Here is one of the best explanation I have come across and every believer should carefully go through it and understand how this deception came into the church from what can only be called pagan Greek thought. 'Secular history reveals that the concept of the immortality of the soul is an ancient belief embraced by many pagan religions. But it's not a biblical teaching and is not found in either the Old or New Testaments....

"Despite widespread use of the phrase immortal soul, this terminology is found nowhere in the Bible. Where did the idea of an immortal soul originate?

The concept of the soul's supposed immortality was first taught in ancient Egypt and Babylon. "The belief that the soul continues in existence after the dissolution of the body is...speculation...nowhere expressly taught in Holy Scripture...The belief in the immortality of the soul came to the Jews from contact with Greek thought and chiefly through the philosophy of Plato, its principal exponent, who was led to it through Orphic and Eleusinian mysteries in which Babylonian and Egyptian views were strangely blended" (Jewish Encyclopedia, 1941, Vol. 6, "Immortality of the Soul," pp. 564, 566).
Secular history reveals that the concept of the immortality of the soul is an ancient belief embraced by many pagan religions. But it's not a biblical teaching and is not found in either the Old or New Testaments.

Plato (428-348 B.C.), the Greek philosopher and student of Socrates, taught that the body and the "immortal soul" separate at death. The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia comments on ancient Israel's view of the soul: "We are influenced always more or less by the Greek, Platonic idea that the body dies, yet the soul is immortal. Such an idea is utterly contrary to the Israelite consciousness and is nowhere found in the Old Testament" (1960, Vol. 2, "Death," p. 812).

Early Christianity was influenced and corrupted by Greek philosophies as it spread through the Greek and Roman world. By A.D. 200 the doctrine of the immortality of the soul became a controversy among Christian believers.

The Evangelical Dictionary of Theology notes that Origen, an early and influential Catholic theologian, was influenced by Greek thinkers: "Speculation about the soul in the subapostolic church was heavily influenced by Greek philosophy. This is seen in Origen's acceptance of Plato's doctrine of the preexistence of the soul as pure mind (nous) originally, which, by reason of its fall from God, cooled down to soul (psyche) when it lost its participation in the divine fire by looking earthward" (1992, "Soul," p. 1037).

Secular history reveals that the concept of the immortality of the soul is an ancient belief embraced by many pagan religions. But it's not a biblical teaching and is not found in either the Old or New Testaments."

Only God has immortality, we wait for the gift of eternal life at the resurrection. The Bible teaches that the dead are dead, that the dead cannot communicate with the living, the soul that sins dies, and that immortality is a gift from God, who alone has immortality and gives the gift to the righteous at His second coming. But of their own self man does not have it..

"...the soul that sinneth, it shall die." Ezekiel 18:4

"...the King of kings, and Lord of lords; Who only hath immortality," 1 Timothy 6:15-16

"Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory." 1 Corinthians 15:51-54
Scripture is not a handy guide to spirituality. It is not neatly laid out systematic theology. It is more like a treasure chest of wonderful truths to explore, but with warnings about the dangers and costs of rejecting God and His ways.

The Bible clearly states that man is spirit, soul and body. I'll quote just one, 1 Thessalonians 5:23
"Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely, and may your entire spirit, soul, and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ."

The error that many make assume that death means the end of existence. The fall of man in Eden proves this to be false. God warned Adam of the consequences of eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil:
"........ but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil; for in the day that you eat of it, you will surely die.” (Genesis 2:17)

It is obvious that man did not die physically. Adam also had all the faculties of thought, reason, logic, emotion and volition. Those faculties make up the soul. So what died and what does death mean? Obviously it is not the end of existence.

Adam died spiritually. Again, not the end of existence, but something else. We can readily see the effect of "death" on Adam and Eve. They immediately hid from God. They were separated from God and there was nothing that they could do to change it. God evicted them from Eden and the decline of man began.

Not convinced?
"When you were dead in your trespasses and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our trespasses.........." Colossians 2:13, also Ephesians 2:1

How can people be born dead in trespasses if death is the end of existence? And what does God make alive when He saves us? Our bodies do not change. I'm nearly 75 and I am looking forward to my new body. Our soul still has the abilities of thought, feeling and volition that Adam was created with. So the part that died is the spirit and that is the part of us that God makes alive.

The account of the rich man and Lazarus shows us that there is indeed life after physical death. The rich man was in torment so he was conscious and able to communicate.

Lord Jesus spoke of outer darkness where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. The lost have to be conscious to weep and have such great sorrow.
 
Is God Just?
Is mankind immortal?
Is God loving?

God is Just so an eternity of suffering would not be a just reward for a life time of sin. God is JUST.

Only God has immortality.
1Ti 6:16 Who only hath immortality....

Eze 18:4 ...: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
 
Is God Just?
Is mankind immortal?
Is God loving?

God is Just so an eternity of suffering would not be a just reward for a life time of sin. God is JUST.

Only God has immortality.
1Ti 6:16 Who only hath immortality....

Eze 18:4 ...: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
Death is not the end of existence. Everyone is born dead in trespass and sin. The opportunity to receive new, eternal life is only available in this existence. If a person dies in their sin, then they still exist. The story of the rich man and Lazarus is proof of that.

God is indeed just. His punishment is to leave people exactly as they were when they died. That is what they choose for themselves.
 
Joh 3:15-16
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

Why didn't He say "everyone" will have eternal life, some in everlasting pain and some in peace.. He said shall not perish because it is clear that the unbelieving do perish..
He wasn't addressing the non believers. He was announcing the glory of salvation.
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
The KJV translates Strong's G622 in the following manner: perish (33x), destroy (26x), lose (22x), be lost (5x), lost (4x), miscellaneous (2x).
Outline of Biblical Usage
  1. to destroy
    1. to put out of the way entirely, abolish, put an end to ruin
    2. render useless
    3. to kill
    4. to declare that one must be put to death
    5. metaph. to devote or give over to eternal misery in hell
    6. to perish, to be lost, ruined, destroyed
  2. to destroy
    1. to lose

The idea is not extinction but ruin, loss, not of being, but of well-being. This is clear from its use and context with many other biblical passages

Hell (eternal torment) is a pagan concept that the Catholic church introduced.
While I know the Catholic church has a lot of issues, it is the bible that started this, not the catholic church.

But the best verse to show that the dead are not conscious is.
Ecc 9:5-6
5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. 6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.
this does not imply death or annihilation. these statements can be true of a living creature look at the stroms definition 1,2, & 5 above.

What is more important for you is to understand proper context and the biblical narrative. if perish mean "death" then what do you make of this:

Num 24:20
And when he looked on Amalek, he took up his parable, and said, Amalek was the first of the nations; but his latter end shall be that he perish for ever.
Num 24:24
And ships shall come from the coast of Chittim, and shall afflict Asshur, and shall afflict Eber, and he also shall perish for ever.
 
Look at what you put, " unsaved immortal souls ", the wicked do not get eternal life. The Bible does not teach that, only Gods faithful get the gift of eternal life.

John 3:15-16
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

The saints get eternal/everlasting life, the wicked perish in the lake of fire.

If you would read what I said more carefully, you should see that is what I said.
IOW, immortal does not mean eternal but refers to post-earthly existence in hell until justice is achieved,
after which the immortal unsaved souls are destroyed/annihilated.
 
Is God Just?
Is mankind immortal?
Is God loving?

God is Just so an eternity of suffering would not be a just reward for a life time of sin. God is JUST.

Only God has immortality.
1Ti 6:16 Who only hath immortality....

Eze 18:4 ...: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

Yes, these are the kinds of teachings that were never taught in the Baptist churches where I was educated,
so when atheists accused God of being unjust, folks had to figure out the answer for themselves, which I did,
but some did not and were persuaded to convert to atheism (aka commit apostasy).
 
So does God hang them out in 'conscious eternal torment' as the saints watch for eternity their friends, families, loved ones be tortured...


I think some people don't want to accept that this is the punishment God has for people who reject his salvation. Annihilation which is false makes it more palatable to people to reject God and enjoy sinning if they don't think the consequences are continual and forever.

The Bible says:

Revelation 21:3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 4 He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”

I don't know how God is going to do this, but that's what is going to happen. Somehow, we won't experience mourning or crying or pain while the damned experience eternal torment. Maybe that's part of their punishment - that we won't feel those things as they are tormented.

Revelation 21:8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.

If God takes away our pain, I think we might not see them continually being tortured. The Bible says that the two groups, the saved and the damned, are in two different areas. So it's quite possible the saved won't see the damned in continual torment. Kind of like the garbage dump being far away from the city so we don't have to see it.


🕊️
 
I think some people don't want to accept that this is the punishment God has for people who reject his salvation. Annihilation which is false makes it more palatable to people to reject God and enjoy sinning if they don't think the consequences are continual and forever.

The Bible says:

Revelation 21:3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 4 He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”

I don't know how God is going to do this, but that's what is going to happen. Somehow, we won't experience mourning or crying or pain while the damned experience eternal torment. Maybe that's part of their punishment - that we won't feel those things as they are tormented.

Revelation 21:8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.

If God takes away our pain, I think we might not see them continually being tortured. The Bible says that the two groups, the saved and the damned, are in two different areas. So it's quite possible the saved won't see the damned in continual torment. Kind of like the garbage dump being far away from the city so we don't have to see it.


🕊️
You need to expand your understand of heaven. IN the end when we are in heaven and IF we can see into hell and all those suffering, we will know and understand that the punishment was just, we won't be bothered by God showing his justice. IN fact Like God himself was pleased when they crucified Jesus, we will be pleased that God is merciful and still just.

Isaiah the prophet was given revelation of the coming of Christ and His crucifixion for sinners and declares that the eternal Father was pleased to crush, or crucify, His beloved Son (Isaiah 53:10). Just like god see this event we will probably see our loved ones recieve the proper justice. Additionally, there will be no tears and sadness in heaven. So whether or not the unsaved are in eternal punishment or even annihilated, it would appear that we will be ok with it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: GWH
  • Like
Reactions: Gideon300
You need to expand your understand of heaven. IN the end when we are in heaven and IF we can see into hell and all those suffering, we will know and understand that the punishment was just, we won't be bothered by God showing his justice. IN fact Like God himself was pleased when they crucified Jesus, we will be pleased that God is merciful and still just.

Isaiah the prophet was given revelation of the coming of Christ and His crucifixion for sinners and declares that the eternal Father was pleased to crush, or crucify, His beloved Son (Isaiah 53:10). Just like god see this event we will probably see our loved ones recieve the proper justice. Additionally, there will be no tears and sadness in heaven. So whether or not the unsaved are in eternal punishment or even annihilated, it would appear that we will be ok with it.


I did say in my post:

"I don't know how God is going to do this, but that's what is going to happen. Somehow, we won't experience mourning or crying or pain while the damned experience eternal torment. Maybe that's part of their punishment - that we won't feel those things as they are tormented."

I don't know how you missed that.


🕊️
 
I did say in my post:

"I don't know how God is going to do this, but that's what is going to happen. Somehow, we won't experience mourning or crying or pain while the damned experience eternal torment. Maybe that's part of their punishment - that we won't feel those things as they are tormented."

I don't know how you missed that.


🕊️
Fair enough, i apologize for the mistake.