Some thoughts on the Sabbath...

[BBerean]

If thou turn away thy foot from the Sabbath,from doing thy pleasure on MY HOLY DAY and call the sabbath a delight , the holy of the LORD , honourable; and shalt honour him , not doing thine own ways , nor finding thine own pleasures, nor speaking thine own words . Isaiah 58 v 13 it’s very clear the Lord is calling the Sabbath his Holy Day . This is the clearest among others I have read .
Sunday is never called the Lords day in the scriptures. Jesus rose on the first day of the week to avoid the Sabbath. Many things the disciples did on Sunday to avoid breaking the Sabbath. Like travel , collection and distribution ,The disciples broke bread on the first day of the week and actually every day so that is not the Lords day since they broke bread every day and as often as you chose could be more than once everyday if they desired, like prayer there is no limit on it . The Lords day was acknowledged by Apostle John and it’s the Sabbath. Jesus was raised on the first day that’s great To think to remember the day of his resurrection, ( breaking of bread is a great way to do that ) but that is not the Lords Day . The Sabbath never ceases. If so show in the scriptures that it does , and that Sunday is the Lords day , not found in the faith once given to the saints . RCC and other religions have tried to change things but the Bible corrects the errors See 2 Timothy 3.16 . It proves truth in all things . Get to know the scriptures that are able to make you wise unto Salvation.

A verse that I often wondered about after reading Isaiah 58:13 makes more sense
2 Timothy 3 v 4 Traitors , heady , highminded , lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God . Chapter 3 of 2 Timothy is more expensive on the subject . Let’s honour the Lord on the Sabbath! Amen

 

[GWH]

I need the verses or some of them GWH.

See post #118.

 

[memberofthebride]

If thou turn away thy foot from the Sabbath,from doing thy pleasure on MY HOLY DAY and call the sabbath a delight , the holy of the LORD , honourable; and shalt honour him , not doing thine own ways , nor finding thine own pleasures, nor speaking thine own words . Isaiah 58 v 13 it’s very clear the Lord is calling the Sabbath his Holy Day . This is the clearest among others I have read .
Sunday is never called the Lords day in the scriptures. Jesus rose on the first day of the week to avoid the Sabbath. Many things the disciples did on Sunday to avoid breaking the Sabbath. Like travel , collection and distribution ,The disciples broke bread on the first day of the week and actually every day so that is not the Lords day since they broke bread every day and as often as you chose could be more than once everyday if they desired, like prayer there is no limit on it . The Lords day was acknowledged by Apostle John and it’s the Sabbath. Jesus was raised on the first day that’s great To think to remember the day of his resurrection, ( breaking of bread is a great way to do that ) but that is not the Lords Day . The Sabbath never ceases. If so show in the scriptures that it does , and that Sunday is the Lords day , not found in the faith once given to the saints . RCC and other religions have tried to change things but the Bible corrects the errors See 2 Timothy 3.16 . It proves truth in all things . Get to know the scriptures that are able to make you wise unto Salvation.

Actually BBrean, Christ rose on the Sabbath just before the sun set, after 3 days and 3 nights

God ends and begins what we call days (24 hours) at sunset. 12 hour days and 12 hour nights

our Wednesday night - night 1: put in the tomb moments before sun set began the first day of the feast of unleavened bread which is a high day a High Sabbath which follows Passover. Passover is on the 14th and the the 15th begins the 7 day feast of unleavened bread at sunset which is why they had to get Christ in the tomb.
our Thursday day - day 1
our Thursday night - night 2
our Friday - day 2
our Friday - night 3
our Saturday - day 3

According to Christ there are 12 hours in a day, 3 days is 36 hours plus 3 nights also 36 hours

Every important event in the Life of Christ has and will occurred on the Day made Holy for that purpose
There is no happenstance with God; Christ will return on the exact day of the exact month set aside for that purpose before creation.

the first day of the week was never made Holy or set aside for Holy use.

Christ was baptized on the Feast of first fruits also called Pentecost. Remember the Holy Spirit was given to the 120 on the Feast of Pentecost.

 

[BBerean]

Matthew 28v1
Mark 16v1
Luke 24v1
John 20v1 The first day of the week ….

They all say first day of the week born by witnesses, as Jesus said 3 days not 2 .
John 9v 22 the Son of man must suffer many things , and be rejected of the elders and chief priests and scribes , and be slain , and be raised the third day .

 

[NightTwister]

Protestant Christianity is another form of the RCC , the daughters of her you could say . I’m not interested in their religion it’s mainly doctrines of men . I have heard most of it and I go with the Bible . End of discussion for me .

The Lone Scotsman rides again.

 

[Inquisitor]

See post #118.

Paul in Romans was explaining why Israel being the descendants of Abraham did not achieve the required
righteousness of God through the law.

Here is an example of Paul talking directly to the Jews in the letter to the Romans.

Romans 6:15
What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be!

Your going to tell me that Rome was under the law and in a blood covenant to obey the Mosaic law?

What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be!

Rome never had the Mosaic law and never knew YHWH.

How can Paul be addressing the Gentiles here?

Here is another one.

Romans 7:1
Or do you not know, brethren for I am speaking to those who know the law, that the law has jurisdiction
over a person as long as he lives?

Have a read of AI explaining the audience and the law.

---

3. Romans 7:1 — a narrowing statement​

Here Paul signals a more specific audience:

• “Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?”

This is key.


Paul is now:

• Still addressing the same Roman believers,
• But directing this section to those who “know the law.”

That would naturally include:

• Jews (who were under the Law),
• Possibly Gentiles who had been taught it (e.g., synagogue-attending “God-fearers”).

So this is not the whole audience, but a subset within it.

---

4. The purpose of Romans 7​

Paul explains the relationship between:

• The Law
• Sin
• Death

Key points:

• “ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ” (7:4)
• “when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law…” (7:5)

Notice “we” — Paul includes himself (a Jew), speaking from shared experience under the Law.


This strongly suggests:

• He is drawing from Jewish experience,
• To explain a principle that ultimately applies to all believers.

---

5. Romans 7:7–25 — the “I” passage​

This section (“I had not known sin, but by the law…”) reflects:

• A person encountering sin through the Law

That experience fits:

• Israel under the Law (see also Romans 3:20)

It does not naturally describe Gentiles, who:

• “have not the law” (Romans 2:14)

---

6. Putting it together​

• Romans 6 → addressed to all believers (Jew and Gentile)
• Romans 7:1–6 → specifically to those who know the Law
• Romans 7:7–25 → describing the experience of someone under the Law (primarily Jewish context)

---

Conclusion​

Paul is:

• Writing to a mixed church (Jews and Gentiles),
• But in Romans 7 he intentionally shifts to address those familiar with the Law, using Jewish experience under the Law to make his point.

So:

​

 

[legion]

Your response indicates you are not able to refute logical questions or respond to basic questions, basic doctrinal concepts.

If your understanding is so broad why can you not even explain "Agape" which is the word describing God's Love, the love Christ has for the few the Father calls to follow Him?

I reject the catholic doctrines of the 45,000 flavors of Confusion 100 percent and all the other doctrines that came from pagan religions.

actually no, my response indicates you have a very childish and incorrect view of the scriptures which I don't have the will to explain to you because with such immaturity you will obviously misuse the information and I will not be responsible for it.

 

[GWH]

Protestant Christianity is another form of the RCC , the daughters of her you could say . I’m not interested in their religion it’s mainly doctrines of men . I have heard most of it and I go with the Bible . End of discussion for me .

It is true that the first Protestants did not complete the Reformation, but the evangelicals including the Baptists and Methodists did better, while the hereticals including Mormons and Tulipists went too far.

 

[Soyeong]

The Old Testament contains the Torah in which is defined the Mosaic law which was for Israel and Israel only.

The Torah was given to Israel in order to equip them to be a light and a blessing to the Gentiles by turning them from their wickedness and by teaching them to obey it. In Matthew 4:15-23, Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, which was a light to the Gentiles, and the Torah was how his audience knew what sin is (Romans 3:20), so repenting from our disobedience to it is a central part of the Gospel message. There would be no point in spreading the Gospel as a light to the Gentiles if the Torah was not for Gentiles. If the Torah were not for Gentiles, then there would not be a reason why Gentiles would need to refrain from sin, need salvation from sin, or need Jesus to have given himself to redeem us from all lawlessness.

It's overarching purpose was to impose a set of rules and laws regarding both moral and ethic as well as ceremonial laws upon the nation of Israel to set them apart as a distinct people.

In Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to walk in His way that he and Israel might know Him, and in Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so the goal of the Torah is to graciously teach us how to know God and Jesus, which is the narrow way to eternal life (John 17:3).

There are many verses that call Gentiles to be holy, so it is not just Jews who are called to be set apart as distinct people.

The Sabbath in particular that special relevance to them as they were told not to forget it or forsake the Sabbath

The Sabbath also has special relevance to followers of the Lord of the Sabbath.

However in the New Testament Jesus fulfilled all the requirements for the Mosaic law and ultimately was what the Mosaic law was pointing at that being a need for a savior since nobody could have hold the Mosaic law consisting of 613 laws

The Mosaic Law is not something that we fulfill ones and no longer need to fulfill it, but rather we should continue to follow Christ's example of fulfilling in perpetuity. For example, it is not the case that if we do something that expresses or love for our neighbor, then we have fulfilled our obligation to that command and no longer need to love our neighbor, but rather we need to continue to do that in perpetuity.

Jesus saves us from our sin (Matthew 1:21) and it is by the Mosaic Law that we have knowledge of what sin is, so Jesus graciously teaching us to experience being a doer of the Mosaic Law is intrinsically the way that he is giving us his gift of saving us from not being a doer of it, which means that the Law of Moses does not just pint to our need for a Savior but also teaches us the way that he is saving us.

New Testament Christians, the gentiles, were never under the Mosaic law. And in Jesus we have our Sabbath rest everyday it is not a singular day as the nation of Israel had it instead at any point in time on any day we can take our Sabbath rest

Christ spent this ministry teaching his followers to obey the Mosaic Law by word and by example and being a NT Christian is about being a follower of what Christ taught, not about refusing to follow him. Jesus set an example for us to follow of keeping the 7th day holy and of working on the other six days in accordance with what God commanded. In Matthew 11:28-30, Jesus was inviting people to come to him for rest and to learn from him, not inviting people to come to him for rest instead of learning from him. By Jesus saying that we would find rest for our souls, he was referencing Jeremiah 6:16-19, where the Law of Moses was described as the good way where we will find rest for our souls, but they did not want to walk in it and they did not pay attention. Will you walk in it? Will you pay attention? If we did on every day what God wants us to do on the Sabbath, then we would do no work, we would light no fires, and we would not buy or sell anything, but is there any day that you intentionally refrain from doing those things in accordance with following Christ's example of obedience to God?

the Mosaic law never has and never will apply to Christians. Well it is perfectly acceptable to keep Sabbath on Saturday as well as many of the other Mosaic law requirements we are not commanded to do so anywhere in the New Testament

The Law of Moses has always applied to Christians.

Be aware there are radical teachings such as Hebrew roots and Cults such as SDA who will tell you that keeping the Sabbath is mandated by God on everybody and it's a sin not to do so

The position that followers of Christ should follow his example of obedience to what God has commanded is fundamentally basic to Christianity and the Mosaic Law is truth (Psalm 119:142), so beware of people who will turn you away from following truth.

 

[Soyeong]

You cannot prove the law applies to anybody but Israel unless you have been taught wrong by heretical teachers

God would have no grounds by which to judge the world if only Israel was obligated to refrain from sin.

In Ephesians 2:12-19, Gentiles were at one time separated from Christ, alienated from Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in this world, which is in accordance with Gentiles at one time not being doers of the Law of Moses, but through faith in Christ all of that is no longer true in that Gentiles are no longer strangers or aliens but are fellow citizens of Israel along with the saints in the household of God, which is in accordance with Gentiles becoming doers of the Law of Moses.

The Mosaic law was for Israel only and only for a Time and that time has passed because there is no more levitical law there is no more Temple is no more levitical priesthood and they are not doing sacrifices

A number of the Mosaic laws have conditions under which they should be obeyed, but it doesn't mean that they have passed away during the time when their conditions are not met. For example, Deuteronomy specifically instructs the king to write a copy of the Torah, but it was given before there was a king of Israel. The Israelites were given number of laws that had the condition "when you enter the land..." while they were still wandering the wilderness for 40 years. The condition for the Israelites to return to the land after they had been exiled to Babylon was to first return to obedience to the Mosaic Law, which contains laws in regard to Temple practice that they could no longer obey because the Temple had just been destroyed, so when there are laws that don't have their condition met, then we should nevertheless be faithful to obey the laws that we can obey. The laws in regard to Temple practice were followed once again once the 2nd Temple had been built, so there is nothing about the destruction of the 2nd Temple that means that those laws have passed away.

The only way that we should cease to follow a law would be if what it teaches us about how to embody God's eternal character traits were to cease to be true. For example, God's righteousness is eternal (Psalm 119:142), therefore all of God's righteous laws are also eternal (Psalm 119:160), and the only way that eternal laws for how to embody God's eternal righteousness can be temporary is if God's eternal righteousness is also temporary. If anyone has the goal of knowing God through embodying His righteousness, they they will consider any instructions that God has even given for how to do that to be eternal and cumulatively valid.

why because God brought it to an end with the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ who ushered in a new law that did not include keeping the Sabbath if you believe the Mosaic law applies to gentiles you're a heretic to the Christian Nation and you can't prove a single point of it without destroying the text to the Bible and imposing a presupposition upon it

The reason why Jesus went to the cross was not in order to curse us by causing us to be to become doers of what the Law of Moses reveals to be sin, but just the opposite. In Titus 2:14, Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so the way to believe in what he spent his ministry teaching and in what he accomplished through the cross is by repenting and becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to the Mosaic Law (Acts 21:20), which includes keeping the Sabbath holy, while the way to reject everything that he is and that he accomplished would be by returning to the lawlessness that he gave himself to redeem us from.

I believe that the whole Bible is true, so I do not interpret any part of it as contradicting another part of it, but if you interpret the NT as speaking against following the OT and the OT as speaking against following the NT, then you are the one who is destroying the text to the Bible.

The fact is what you're proving by trying to make your point is that not only do you not understand the New Testament but you do not understand the Old Testament and in specifically you do not understand the Mosaic law and most critically you do not understand the work of Jesus Christ on the cross and by this it's clear evidence that you do not know Jesus I don't say that lightly

The Hebrew word “yada” refers to intimate relationships/knowledge gained by experience, such as with Genesis 4:1 where Adam knew (yada) Eve, she conceived, and gave birth to Cain. God’s way is the way to know (yada) Him and Jesus by having the experience of embodying His character traits, which is the narrow way to eternal life (John 17:3). For example, in Genesis 18:19, God knew (yada) Abraham that he would teach his children and those of His household to walk in His way by being doers of righteousness and justice that the Lord might bring to him all that He has promised. In Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to walk in His way that he and Israel might know (yada) Him, and in Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so the goal of the Mosaic Law is to graciously teach us how to know God and Jesus by walking in His way, which is His gift of eternal life.

 

[BBerean]

Matthew chapter 5 is very clear coming from Jesus The master . Matthew 23 v 10 “Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master , even Christ . “ therefore listen to Jesus more than others that make claims .
Matthew 5 v 16 - 19 is very clear to those that have ears to hear .

 

[Soyeong]

He fulfilled it.... it's over..

In Matthew 5:17-19, Jesus said that he came to fulfill the law in contrast with saying that he came not to abolish it and he warned against relaxing the least part of it, so you should not interpret fulfilling it as meaning the same thing as abolishing it or as relaxing even the least part of it.

the Mosaic law defines a subset of sins... it is not the definition if sin or you would be saying no sin exists before the Mosaic law. It was not ever binding on gentiles.

Sin is what is contrary to God's character traits, such as with unrighteousness being sin, and sin is the transgression of the Mosaic Law because it was given in order to teach us how to know God through embodying His character traits. Anyone who wants to know God should follow His instructions for how to do that regardless of whether or not they are obligated to do so.

There is no more active Mosaic law, you don't have sacrifices, a temple, levitical priest ... Jesus paid for my sins.

The fact that Jesus gave himself to pay the penalty for our sin should make us want to go and sin no more by living in obedience to the Mosaic Law.

You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace" (Galatians 5:4)

God wanted His children to repent and to return to obedience to the Mosaic Law all throughout the Bible and even Christ began his ministry with that Gospel message (Matthew 4:15-23), so it would be absurd to interpret that verses as Paul warning us against obeying God and warning that we will be cut of from Christ if we repent and believe the Gospel of Christ. The position that we should obey the Law of Moses is not the position that we should obey it in order to become justified or the position that we should obey works of the law in order to become justified. The fact that we can't earn our justification even as the result of having perfect obedience to what God has commanded does not mean that we are not obligated to obey what God has commanded.

 

[BBerean]

In Matthew 5:17-19, Jesus said that he came to fulfill the law in contrast with saying that he came not to abolish it and he warned against relaxing the least part of it, so you should not interpret fulfilling it as meaning the same thing as abolishing it or as relaxing even the least part of it.


Sin is what is contrary to God's character traits, such as with unrighteousness being sin, and sin is the transgression of the Mosaic Law because it was given in order to teach us how to know God through embodying His character traits. Anyone who wants to know God should follow His instructions for how to do that regardless of whether or not they are obligated to do so.


The fact that Jesus gave himself to pay the penalty for our sin should make us want to go and sin no more by living in obedience to the Mosaic Law.


God wanted His children to repent and to return to obedience to the Mosaic Law all throughout the Bible and even Christ began his ministry with that Gospel message (Matthew 4:15-23), so it would be absurd to interpret that verses as Paul warning us against obeying God and warning that we will be cut of from Christ if we repent and believe the Gospel of Christ. The position that we should obey the Law of Moses is not the position that we should obey it in order to become justified or the position that we should obey works of the law in order to become justified. The fact that we can't earn our justification even as the result of having perfect obedience to what God has commanded does not mean that we are not obligated to obey what God has commanded.

Jesus said to the woman caught in Adultery, ( who acknowledged Jesus as Lord )neither do I condemn thee ! But Go and SIN no more . I see that as Gods mercy and forgiveness to us that should inspire us to be obedient and sin not against God by carrying on in it . Sinning on after wards can only be breaking the law .” Apostle Paul said should I sin that grace may abound ? God forbid .” We should be dead to sin therefore the law has no effect, because we live unto God through the grace and Spirit of God that sins not and breaks not the law . But the flesh still can sin and false teachings can lead into sin as well if flesh based like circumcision to keep the law by the power of the flesh . Man understands not Spiritual things and needs the Spirit of God . So the point is Sin no more is the command of Jesus . By the power Jesus gives to follow him . Just a few thoughts I have . A few thoughts. Seek the Lords mercy and grace to do good and sin no more , or at least much much less , until you get the victory! Jesus is our advocate in case we need him in times of trial or weakness. Amen

 

[legion]

The Torah was given to Israel in order to equip them to be a light and a blessing to the Gentiles by turning them from their wickedness and by teaching them to obey it. In Matthew 4:15-23, Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, which was a light to the Gentiles, and the Torah was how his audience knew what sin is (Romans 3:20), so repenting from our disobedience to it is a central part of the Gospel message. There would be no point in spreading the Gospel as a light to the Gentiles if the Torah was not for Gentiles. If the Torah were not for Gentiles, then there would not be a reason why Gentiles would need to refrain from sin, need salvation from sin, or need Jesus to have given himself to redeem us from all lawlessness.

Incorrect. Gentiles are under the Abrahamic covenant of promise. The one 430 years before the mosaic covenant \

• Gal 3:17 And this I say, that the mosaic law, which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God in Christ, that it should make the promise of no effect.

Gentiles are in no way connected to the mosaic law.

The Mosaic Law served several key purposes:

• Revealing God's holiness: It aimed to reveal the holy character of the eternal God to the nation of Israel (Leviticus 19:2; 20:7–8).
• Setting apart Israel: It set apart the nation of Israel as distinct from all other nations (Exodus 19:5).
• Revealing sinfulness: It revealed the sinfulness of man (cf. Galatians 3:19).
• Providing forgiveness: It provided forgiveness through the sacrifice/offerings for the people who had faith in the Lord in the nation of Israel.
• Providing a way of worship: It provided a way of worship for the community of faith through the yearly feasts (Leviticus 23).
• Providing direction: It provided God's direction for the physical and spiritual health of the nation (Exodus 21—23; Deuteronomy 6:4–19; Psalm 119:97–104).
• Revealing humanity's inability to keep the Law: It revealed to humanity that no one can keep the Law but everyone falls short of God's standard of holiness, causing reliance on God's mercy and grace.
  
  The Mosaic Law was a comprehensive set of divine instructions given to Moses at Mount Sinai, recorded across the books of Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy. Jewish tradition counts 613 individual commandments within it, covering everything from worship and criminal justice to farming practices and personal hygiene.

In Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to walk in His way that he and Israel might know Him, and in Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so the goal of the Torah is to graciously teach us how to know God and Jesus, which is the narrow way to eternal life (John 17:3).

This was never gods plans for the Gentiles. The reference there in mat 7:23 is out of context. Jesus is explaining that those who were attempting to follow the law were not doing it correctly. this was not a generalized statement to gentiles. The torah is not connected to the statement of John 17:3 (And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent)

There are many verses that call Gentiles to be holy, so it is not just Jews who are called to be set apart as distinct people.

there are but not under the mosaic law. And actually, whereas Israel was called out to be isolated unto themselves, a special nation unto God, Christians are called to go out into other nations and tech about Jesus... two completely separate covenants and purposes.

The Sabbath also has special relevance to followers of the Lord of the Sabbath.

Jesus is the gentiles (and now Jews) sabbath rest on any day or time.

The Mosaic Law is not something that we fulfill ones and no longer need to fulfill it, but rather we should continue to follow Christ's example of fulfilling in perpetuity. For example, it is not the case that if we do something that expresses or love for our neighbor, then we have fulfilled our obligation to that command and no longer need to love our neighbor, but rather we need to continue to do that in perpetuity.

Christian do not need the mosaic law they fulfill it by the greatest commandment "love god and love thy neighbor"

Jesus saves us from our sin (Matthew 1:21) and it is by the Mosaic Law that we have knowledge of what sin is, so Jesus graciously teaching us to experience being a doer of the Mosaic Law is intrinsically the way that he is giving us his gift of saving us from not being a doer of it, which means that the Law of Moses does not just pint to our need for a Savior but also teaches us the way that he is saving us.

The mosaic law was never for salvation. The mosaic law was a special subset of laws designed to point out sin of the people of Israel so THEY could remain holy. The mosaic law does not define all sin for all peoples.

Christ spent this ministry teaching his followers to obey the Mosaic Law by word and by example and being a NT Christian is about being a follower of what Christ taught, not about refusing to follow him. Jesus set an example for us to follow of keeping the 7th day holy and of working on the other six days in accordance with what God commanded.

Jesus nor his disciple ever taught any gentile to follow the mosaic law... or keep the sabbath ever... However Jesus and most of his disciples were Jewish so that is why we see them doing the things that for 1500+ years were ingrained in their culture.

In Matthew 11:28-30, Jesus was inviting people to come to him for rest and to learn from him, not inviting people to come to him for rest instead of learning from him. By Jesus saying that we would find rest for our souls, he was referencing Jeremiah 6:16-19, where the Law of Moses was described as the good way where we will find rest for our souls, but they did not want to walk in it and they did not pay attention.

Right and by this logic we should be itinerary rabbis and also carpenters. And no Jesus was explaining he was thier sabbath rest in Matthew 11.

The Law of Moses has always applied to Christians.

it never has. and no verse even remotely suggest this. what part of"Hear Ye Oh Israel" is gentile?

The position that followers of Christ should follow his example of obedience to what God has commanded is fundamentally basic to Christianity and the Mosaic Law is truth (Psalm 119:142), so beware of people who will turn you away from following truth.

Jesus fulfilled the law and gave us the greatest commandment Love God and Neighbor, by doing this you fulfill all the mosaic law requirements. We are to do the will of his father which is believe in Jesus.

Exodus 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice and keep My covenant, then you shall be a special treasure to Me above all people (over the gentiles!! who do no have the mosaic law!); for all the earth is Mine. They are separate from gentiles because of the covenant.

The covenant was centered around the Ten Commandments and the laws given by God to Moses, and it was binding on Israel as long as they remained obedient to these laws. (thus we know it was not permanent as the Old Testament is replete with Israels failure to keep the mosaic law) If Israel disobeyed, God would punish them, but if they followed His commandments, they would receive blessings.

This was a bilateral covenant and depended on man being able to abide by the laws. They could not, they failed at almost every point. The reason for this was because one of the reasons for the mosaic law was to show they needed a savior that through works of the flesh no man can be saved. The New Covenant that Jesus ushered in was unilateral and was not dependent on man. it was a better more perfect covenant, not the one of their forefathers

You have a major misunderstanding of the New Testament teaching and of Jesus and his work on the cross. Second you do not understand the scope, intent and duration of the mosaic law.

Te Law reveals to humanity that no one can keep the Law but everyone falls short of God’s standard of holiness. That realization causes us to rely on God’s mercy and grace. When Christ came, He fulfilled the Law and with His death paid the penalty for our breaking it (Galatians 3:24; Romans 10:4). By faith in Him, the believer has the very righteousness of Christ imputed to him.

And ill leave you with this :
Galations 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

There is no more levitical priest hood, there is no more temple, there are no more sacrifices, the mosaic law has been imposible to follow since 70 AD

 

[legion]

In Matthew 5:17-19, Jesus said that he came to fulfill the law in contrast with saying that he came not to abolish it and he warned against relaxing the least part of it, so you should not interpret fulfilling it as meaning the same thing as abolishing it or as relaxing even the least part of it.

Here it is the verse that spawns' multiple cults. Nowhere in this verse is it saying anything about it being binding on anyone or still in effect. it is saying it won't change. it hasn't, we have it in our bible. The mosaic law is forever in that sense, but this verse is teaching the very basic truth that Jesus fulfilled it requirements and purpose.

If I have a agreement (covenant) to write a piece of software for someone, and I complete this agreement to their satisfaction perfectly. I am no longer obligated to that covenant as I have fulfilled it. So, it is not abolished it remains as evidence of what Jesus Fulfilled, completed. etc.

Paul explains this is no uncertain terms: The Mosaic Law, given to the Israelites at Mount Sinai, is viewed as a temporary covenant. It was designed to set Israel apart as God's chosen people and to guide them in righteousness. The Apostle Paul, in his epistles, elaborates on the temporary nature of the Mosaic Law. In Galatians 3:24-25 , he writes, "So the law became our guardian to lead us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. Now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian." Here, Paul indicates that the law served as a "guardian" or "tutor" until the coming of Christ, who fulfilled the law's requirements and ushered in a new covenant.

<mic drop>

 

[GWH]

Paul in Romans was explaining why Israel being the descendants of Abraham did not achieve the required
righteousness of God through the law.

Here is an example of Paul talking directly to the Jews in the letter to the Romans.

Romans 6:15
What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be!

Your going to tell me that Rome was under the law and in a blood covenant to obey the Mosaic law?

What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be!

Rome never had the Mosaic law and never knew YHWH.

How can Paul be addressing the Gentiles here?

Here is another one.

Romans 7:1
Or do you not know, brethren for I am speaking to those who know the law, that the law has jurisdiction
over a person as long as he lives?

Have a read of AI explaining the audience and the law.

---

3. Romans 7:1 — a narrowing statement​

Here Paul signals a more specific audience:

• “Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?”

This is key.


Paul is now:

• Still addressing the same Roman believers,
• But directing this section to those who “know the law.”

That would naturally include:

• Jews (who were under the Law),
• Possibly Gentiles who had been taught it (e.g., synagogue-attending “God-fearers”).

So this is not the whole audience, but a subset within it.

---

4. The purpose of Romans 7​

Paul explains the relationship between:

• The Law
• Sin
• Death

Key points:

• “ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ” (7:4)
• “when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law…” (7:5)

Notice “we” — Paul includes himself (a Jew), speaking from shared experience under the Law.


This strongly suggests:

• He is drawing from Jewish experience,
• To explain a principle that ultimately applies to all believers.

---

5. Romans 7:7–25 — the “I” passage​

This section (“I had not known sin, but by the law…”) reflects:

• A person encountering sin through the Law

That experience fits:

• Israel under the Law (see also Romans 3:20)

It does not naturally describe Gentiles, who:

• “have not the law” (Romans 2:14)

---

6. Putting it together​

• Romans 6 → addressed to all believers (Jew and Gentile)
• Romans 7:1–6 → specifically to those who know the Law
• Romans 7:7–25 → describing the experience of someone under the Law (primarily Jewish context)

---

Conclusion​

Paul is:

• Writing to a mixed church (Jews and Gentiles),
• But in Romans 7 he intentionally shifts to address those familiar with the Law, using Jewish experience under the Law to make his point.

So:

So, where is your conclusion?
What is the point of your post?

 

[dkontner]

So, where is your conclusion?
What is the point of your post?

What's the point of yours?

 

[indenturedservant]

The first thing God did on the seventh day, after creation was completed, was to make the day “Holy.”

Please define "Holy."

 

[legion]

Gen 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

The 7th day the sabbath day applies to the creation of this earth.

It is a physical sabbath.

Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exo 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates.

Mat 12:1 At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn, and to eat.
Mat 12:2 But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day.
Mat 12:3 But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was an hungred, and they that were with him;
Mat 12:4 How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them which were with him, but only for the priests?

Mat 12:7 But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.
Mat 12:8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

Mat 12:10 And, behold, there was a man which had his hand withered. And they asked him, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath days? that they might accuse him.
Mat 12:11 And he said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out?
Mat 12:12 How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.

The Jews had to obey the sabbath day to do no work on that day.

But the work they could not do was if it was work that had to do with physical prosperity not being a necessity.

The disciples ate of the corn when they went through the field.

And Jesus healed on the sabbath day.

Because love and helping with needs which is love never takes a day off.

They could work on the sabbath if it had to do with helping people with their needs or their own needs.

But they could not work if it had to do with personal prosperity that was not a necessity.

The man picking up sticks was laboring for something that was personal prosperity that did not support the needs of people.

And not an urgency that he had to do it on the sabbath day that was essential.

Obviously those sticks was not a necessity.

Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
Col 2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Joh 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Isa 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

Luk 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
Luk 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Heb 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
Heb 11:14 For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.
Heb 11:16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

Jesus took the physical ordinances of Israel out of the way nailing them to His cross for they were contrary to us for they had no bearing on spiritual salvation.

Which includes the physical sabbath day being taken out of the way.

The physical sabbath is taken out of the way applies to this earth.

Jesus went away to prepare a place for the saints the new earth and heaven.

Which the kingdom of God is within the saints.

And they are strangers and pilgrims on earth.

So they belong to that new earth so they go by a spiritual sabbath and not the physical sabbath that applies to this earth.

Isa 28:10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
Isa 28:11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
Isa 28:12 To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.

Mat 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Mat 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
Mat 11:30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

When a person receives the Holy Spirit that is their rest and the refreshing.

The Old Testament a physical covenant this earth.

The New Testament a spiritual covenant the new earth.

thesabbath was not given to man until the mosaic law at sinai... there was no mosaic law before then...,

 

[legion]

Galatians chapter 3 is to Gentiles , and yes the law applies. Read it carefully.

read this... https://christianchat.com/threads/some-thoughts-on-the-sabbath.222258/post-5731373