Revolution in Iran

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Its talking about the same group of people, the same people who are enemies are also beloved due to election.

It would be very strange and unnatural reading of the text to suggest its talking about two different people in the same sentence using "they". Look at the context

Rom 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
Rom 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
Rom 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
Rom 11:30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
Rom 11:31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
Rom 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

I dont see the two groups in that sentence. There are plenty of chosen and unsaved people in the bible, I dont know why you cant see it that way. Most of Israel perished in the OT, yet were "elect". Saul was elect to be king, yet failed miserably.

You're confusing called with chosen (elect). Many are called as all natural Israel was, but few were chosen (elect).
 
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The word election (ἐκλογή is used only 7 times in the bible, and every time it refers to believers.

G1589 ἐκλογή ekloge (ek-lo-ǰee') n.
(divine) selection (abstractly or concretely).

But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel: (Acts 9:15)
(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth (Romans 9:11)
Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. (Romans 11:5)
What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded (Romans 11:7)
As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. (Romans 11:28)
Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God. (1 Thessalonians 1:4)
Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: (2 Peter 1:10)
 
That's what all the racist Jew haters keep saying.

There is not one single "Godly nation" in modern times especially the US.

The perversion in the US would make Sodom and Gomorrah blush, so it's not about Israel being a "Godly nation"

I'd explain how God stands by His promises to Abraham but you wouldn't understand

The reprobates having been blinded with racism towards the Jews coupled with acute TDS are not worth spending time on

We used to have that winner emoji, a heart seems a little odd as a response. But you've nailed it 100%.
 


Psalm 37:10-15
10 For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be.

11 But the meek shall inherit the earth; and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace.

12 The wicked plotteth against the just, and gnasheth upon him with his teeth.

13 The Lord shall laugh at him: for he seeth that his day is coming.

14 The wicked have drawn out the sword, and have bent their bow, to cast down the poor and needy, and to slay such as be of upright conversation.

15 Their sword shall enter into their own heart, and their bows shall be broken.

 


Psalm 37:10-15
10 For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be.

11 But the meek shall inherit the earth; and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace.

12 The wicked plotteth against the just, and gnasheth upon him with his teeth.

13 The Lord shall laugh at him: for he seeth that his day is coming.

14 The wicked have drawn out the sword, and have bent their bow, to cast down the poor and needy, and to slay such as be of upright conversation.

15 Their sword shall enter into their own heart, and their bows shall be broken.


lol they cancelled going to Pakistan because Iran said they weren't going to meet with them.
 
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The same group of people is natural Israel. He makes clear in another verse that not all of them of (natural) Israel are (actually) Israel. The non-believing part are imposters; they are not the people of God though they may have been associated with them for a time. There is the election that believes and the "rejection" that doesn't believe.

Israel itself was chosen and saved out of Egypt, but the part that disbelieved was afterwards destroyed. So they were not the elect that inherited the promised land; only the elect who were faithful inherited the land.

Saul was chosen, but was rejected because of disobedience. So he may have been elect for a time, but he was not the true elect of God as David was.

Paul makes the same distinction throughout Romans 9-11. I challenge you to find one verse in which he does not.
You do not comprehend that ethnic Israelites have been MIRACULOUSLY PRESERVED thru the centuries in order to fulfill all prophecy and be REDEEMED yet future?

Of course you don't.

You likewise do not comprehend that the Church age has an abrupt and distinct BEGINNING (on an exact day no less, precisely the same day as the marriage covenant on Sinai), and has an abrupt and distinct ENDING as well. Known as the rapture.

AND THEN the prophetic clock (which has been on pause) starts ticking once again, culminating in the SECOND COMING.....FOR Israel.
 
You do not comprehend that ethnic Israelites have been MIRACULOUSLY PRESERVED thru the centuries in order to fulfill all prophecy and be REDEEMED yet future?

That's the pharisaical view, which has to push everything into the future because of unbelief in Christ. The Christian view is that all is fulfilled in Christ and his body.
 
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The same group of people is natural Israel. He makes clear in another verse that not all of them of (natural) Israel are (actually) Israel. The non-believing part are imposters; they are not the people of God though they may have been associated with them for a time. There is the election that believes and the "rejection" that doesn't believe.

Israel itself was chosen and saved out of Egypt, but the part that disbelieved was afterwards destroyed. So they were not the elect that inherited the promised land; only the elect who were faithful inherited the land.

Saul was chosen, but was rejected because of disobedience. So he may have been elect for a time, but he was not the true elect of God as David was.

Paul makes the same distinction throughout Romans 9-11. I challenge you to find one verse in which he does not.
Of course not all Israelites are saved at His First Coming. Are you so Biblically illiterate that you need us to provide the massive compendium of passages for this too?
 
That's what all the racist Jew haters keep saying.

There is not one single "Godly nation" in modern times especially the US.

The perversion in the US would make Sodom and Gomorrah blush, so it's not about Israel being a "Godly nation"

I'd explain how God stands by His promises to Abraham but you wouldn't understand

The reprobates having been blinded with racism towards the Jews coupled with acute TDS are not worth spending time on
Lol, I am not racist, and many here who aren't Zionist are not racist, who brainwashed you? Some who oppose Israel I am sure do so as they are anti semites. I never claimed there was a Godly nation on the world. You obviously are ignorant. I don't have time for your nonsense.
 
The same group of people is natural Israel. He makes clear in another verse that not all of them of (natural) Israel are (actually) Israel. The non-believing part are imposters; they are not the people of God though they may have been associated with them for a time. There is the election that believes and the "rejection" that doesn't believe.

Israel itself was chosen and saved out of Egypt, but the part that disbelieved was afterwards destroyed. So they were not the elect that inherited the promised land; only the elect who were faithful inherited the land.

Saul was chosen, but was rejected because of disobedience. So he may have been elect for a time, but he was not the true elect of God as David was.

Paul makes the same distinction throughout Romans 9-11. I challenge you to find one verse in which he does not.
My point was that in Romans 11:27 it talks about taking away their sins, and then in the next verse it says they are enemies, so isn't that the same group of people?

Can you walk thru these verses in a similar way you did to verse 28, I may be able to understand what you mean. Romans 11:7 clarifies your view.

Rom 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
Rom 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
Rom 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
Rom 11:30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
Rom 11:31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
Rom 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
 
That's the pharisaical view, which has to push everything into the future because of unbelief in Christ. The Christian view is that all is fulfilled in Christ and his body.
It is the utterly clueless replacement theology crew that cannot integrate Ezekiel chapters 40 thru 48 into their bizarre delusional fantasies.

Whereas the wise diligently Biblically grounded student can integrate these chapters into our eschatology FLAWLESSLY.

Why pray tell? Well we do not treat the Jews of today with extreme prejudice for one thing. Nor do we deny them their rights as FIRST. Nor do we deny the stupendous voluminous and awesome prophecied BLESSINGS that will surely overtake them in the latter days.

God bless the Sons of Jacob the firstborn. God's love for them shall never fail.
 
My point was that in Romans 11:27 it talks about taking away their sins, and then in the next verse it says they are enemies, so isn't that the same group of people?

Can you walk thru these verses in a similar way you did to verse 28, I may be able to understand what you mean. Romans 11:7 clarifies your view.

Rom 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
Rom 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
Rom 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
Rom 11:30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
Rom 11:31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
Rom 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
Rom 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

This will certainly happen....yet FUTURE.
Nothing could be more obvious. Nothing is more inevitable.

This blessed future despite the raving denials of the replacement theology crew. They are so far gone that for them, the future does not exist for anybody but themselves.

And again, the replacement theology crew has NO ANSWER to these crucial passages!

Luk 13:34 - O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not!

Luk 13:35 - Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
 
My point was that in Romans 11:27 it talks about taking away their sins, and then in the next verse it says they are enemies, so isn't that the same group of people?

Can you walk thru these verses in a similar way you did to verse 28, I may be able to understand what you mean. Romans 11:7 clarifies your view.

Rom 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
Rom 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
Rom 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
Rom 11:30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
Rom 11:31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
Rom 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
Rom 11:26 - And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

Rom 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

Will this superb exegetical treatment be enough to silence the replacement theology crew once and for all?
It certainly should. But it won't.

In Romans 11:27, Paul is quoting a composite of Old Testament prophecy (primarily Isaiah 59:21 and Isaiah 27:9). To determine if this refers to a future reality, we have to look at the Greek verbal aspect and the specific construction of the sentence.
The Greek text for the clause "when I shall take away their sins" is:

ὅταν ἀφέλωμαι τὰς ἁμαρτίας αὐτῶν

Here is the breakdown of why the grammar points toward a future prophetic fulfillment:

1. The Use of "Hotan" (ὅταν) with the Subjunctive
The word translated as "when" is ὅταν (hotan). In Greek grammar, hotan combined with a subjunctive verb (in this case, aphelōmai) creates a Future Contingent Clause.

Unlike the word hote (which refers to a specific time in the past or present), hotan introduces an event that is expected to happen in the future but is contingent upon certain conditions being met.

In the context of Romans 11, that condition is the "coming of the Deliverer out of Zion" mentioned in the previous verse.

2. The Aorist Subjunctive (aphelōmai)
The verb ἀφέλωμαι (aphelōmai) is the Aorist Middle Subjunctive of aphaireō.

The Aorist Aspect: While the Aorist often denotes past tense in the indicative mood, in the subjunctive mood, it refers to a "summary" action that has not yet occurred. It views the "taking away of sins" as a complete, definitive event that will take place at a point in the future.

The "Shall" Factor: In English, "shall" is a helper verb used to denote the future tense. In the Greek of this passage, the future reality is baked into the Subjunctive Mood. It isn't describing something Paul believes has already been fully realized for the nation of Israel at the time of his writing; it is describing a promise yet to be consummated.

3. The Future Indicative Context
Greek sentences don't exist in a vacuum. Paul anchors this "covenant" in the preceding verse (Romans\ 11:26):
"And so all Israel shall be saved (sōthēsetai)..."

The verb σωθήσεται (sōthēsetai) is Future Passive Indicative. This is a hard future tense. Because verse 27 is the explanation of the covenant that enables verse 26, the "taking away of sins" must logically align with the future salvation of "all Israel" mentioned moments prior.

4. The Prophetic "Goal"
The term for "take away" (aphaireō) specifically means to remove or cut off.

In the Septuagint (the Greek OT), this language is used in prophetic contexts regarding the Day of the Lord and the final cleansing of the NATION.

Paul’s use of the Middle Voice (aphelōmai) suggests that God is acting "for Himself" or "on His own initiative" to fulfill this promise, reinforcing the idea of a divinely appointed future milestone rather than a gradual historical process.
 
My point was that in Romans 11:27 it talks about taking away their sins, and then in the next verse it says they are enemies, so isn't that the same group of people?

Can you walk thru these verses in a similar way you did to verse 28, I may be able to understand what you mean. Romans 11:7 clarifies your view.

Rom 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
Rom 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
Rom 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
Rom 11:30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
Rom 11:31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
Rom 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

Sure, glad to.

Verse 27 is OT prophecy that Paul uses to show how all Israel is saved (verse 26), ie, by the new covenant removal of their sins. Obviously, the sins of unbelievers in Israel are not removed by the new covenant, so all Israel has to mean the believing remnant, ie, the election throughout all of time.

Verse 28 is describing these two groups, believers and unbelievers, within Israel. Those of Israel who disbelieve the gospel are the broken off branches who are the enemies of God through the believing gentiles who are grafted into the tree in their place. But those of Israel who believe the gospel are beloved of God through the promises he made to fathers.

Verse 29 is saying that God does not renege on his promises, and they are fulfilled in the believing remnant of Israel, ie the election.

Verse 30 says that because of disobedient branches in Israel that were broken off, God has extended mercy to believing gentiles who become the beloved, rather than hated as the unbelieving broken off branches are.

Verse 31 and 32 mean that God is compassionate to all, and though he has rejected disbelievers in Israel, he accepts any of them back if they turn to him and believe the gospel, so that he may have mercy upon all.
 
Luk 13:35 - Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

This was fulfilled in Luke 19:38 when his disciples said this very thing as he approached Jerusalem for the last time
 
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Sure, glad to.

Verse 27 is OT prophecy that Paul uses to show how all Israel is saved (verse 26), ie, by the new covenant removal of their sins. Obviously, the sins of unbelievers in Israel are not removed by the new covenant, so all Israel has to mean the believing remnant, ie, the election throughout all of time.

Verse 28 is describing these two groups, believers and unbelievers, within Israel. Those of Israel who disbelieve the gospel are the broken off branches who are the enemies of God through the believing gentiles who are grafted into the tree in their place. But those of Israel who believe the gospel are beloved of God through the promises he made to fathers.

Verse 29 is saying that God does not renege on his promises, and they are fulfilled in the believing remnant of Israel, ie the election.

Verse 30 says that because of disobedient branches in Israel that were broken off, God has extended mercy to believing gentiles who become the beloved, rather than hated as the unbelieving broken off branches are.

Verse 31 and 32 mean that God is compassionate to all, and though he has rejected disbelievers in Israel, he accepts any of them back if they turn to him and believe the gospel, so that he may have mercy upon all.
"Obviously, the sins of unbelievers in Israel are not removed by the new covenant".

Obviously you are dead wrong.
And the fact that you have failed to rightly understand this is proof positive that you haven't the slightest clue of what Romans 11 is meant to convey.

Fortunately, not my problem.
 
In the Septuagint (the Greek OT), this language is used in prophetic contexts regarding the Day of the Lord and the final cleansing of the NATION.

Peter makes clear who the nation of God is

But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: 1 Peter 2:9
 
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