Well, I believe Rom. 3:21-5:1, Matt. 4:17 and Eph. 2:8-9, but of course you are free to kick against those goads.
Can We Really Exercise Free Will?
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Well, I believe Rom. 3:21-5:1, Matt. 4:17 and Eph. 2:8-9, but of course you are free to kick against those goads.
But it is not dependent upon man's actions in any sense and that's what makes it by grace, otherwise it would be by works which means it is by law, but salvation cannot be by law. There are no conditions imposed upon man whereby he must satisfy them to become saved, otherwise, on that basis, no one would ever become save. And as @brightfame52 correctly states above, nowhere in Scripture is the requirement for man's faith stated as a condition of salvation. To the contrary, all of the attributes of salvation come from salvation to include faith.
I think you meant Rom 3:22, not 3:21, but the verse, in the KJV states "by the faith OF Christ"; that is by Christ's faith. However, the verse does not address HOW one comes to have true belief. To truly believe is given by God as a free gift and which accompanies salvation; it does not originate from/with man.
Please read these verses again carefully and closely. None of them, none of them, in any sense state a requirement that must be satisfied by man in order to become saved.
[Tit 3:4-7 KJV]
4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
:[2Ti 1:9 KJV] 9 Who hath saved us, and called [us] with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
[1Co 6:11 KJV] 11 And such were some of you:
but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
[Rom 9:16 KJV] 16 So then [it is] not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
[Rom 3:24 KJV] 24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
[Rom 8:39 KJV] 39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
[1Co 30 KJV]
30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
[2Co 1:21 KJV] 21 Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, [is] God;
God does not love everyone, not in the spiritual sense; He only loves His elect. Notice in Rom 9:11, we are informed that " that the purpose of God ACCORDING TO ELECTION might stand". Observe:
[Rom 9:11, 13, 15-16 KJV]
11 (For [the children] being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth...
13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. ...
15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. 16 So then [it is] not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
Repentance given as a gift by God to those whom He saves. To truly repent, is to cease from trusting in one's works of righteousness for salvation and instead trust in Christ as THE Savior:
[Rom 2:4 KJV] 4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
[2Ti 2:25 KJV] 25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
[Heb 6:1 KJV] 1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
Romans 1:20 is correct, all are without excuse, but, the verse does not state that they were given spiritual discernment. Spiritual discernment only comes with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit only indwells those who have become saved. It is through spiritual discernment that things spiritual become revealed to man.
Romans 1:20:
[Rom 1:20 KJV] 20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
[1Co 2:14 KJV] 14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.
You and "Bright" are free to deny GW, but what I have already cited (Rom. 3:21-5:1, Matt. 4:17, Eph. 2:8-9, 1Tim. 2:3-4, etc.) seem clear enough to me, and I see no good reason to kick against believing them as I have already explained: saving faith is not meritorious as you insist on saying.
You cited Tit. 3:4-7 but failed to see that "through" in verse 6 is equivalent to "through" in Eph. 2:8, indicating the condition of faith.
Ditto re 2Tim. 1:9 KJV, in which "in" means "faith in", as in Eph. 1:1-13.
Ditto re 1Cor. 6:11, in which "in the name" means "faith in the name", as in John 3:16.
Re Rom. 9:16, the context needs to be considered, which includes Rom. 3:21-5:1 and what preceded that passage:
1. Romans 1:16 says the Gospel reveals that (s/e) is for “everyone who believes”, both Jew and Gentile. [IF whosoever believes]
2. Romans 1:17 describes s/e as “righteousness from God” that is by faith “from first to last” or from creation until the end. [IF whosoever believes from conversion until death]
3. Romans 2:4 teaches that God’s kindness or patience with sinners is meant to lead them toward repentance, which implies that sinners are able to repent because of God’s leading. [IF whosoever repents of unbelief/ignoring GW]
Not sure how you can cite it but not see it: "[Rom 2:4 KJV] 4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?"
4. Romans 2:5 warns that those who do not repent but instead stubbornly resist God’s leading are storing up wrath against themselves for the day when God’s righteous judgment will be revealed, which implies that God enables sinners to repent–or not (cf. Deut. 30:19). [“or not” signifies IF ]
5. Romans 2:6 affirms what is called karma by saying that “God will give to each person according to what he has done”, which (in Gal. 6:7-9) is called reaping what a person sows. [IF whosoever believes, then heaven, IF not–then hell]
6. Romans 2:7 speaks of the need for “persistence in doing good” and seeking glory, honor and immortality in order to receive s/e or eternal life, which echoes what Jesus commanded (in Matt. 7:7) and connects with the doctrine of perseverance (cf. Heb. 10:36 & Jam. 1:3-4). [IF whosoever perseveres in saving belief]
7. Romans 2:11 teaches that “God does not show favoritism” (cf. Eph. 6:9, Col. 3:25, 1Pet. 1:17), which is how God judges people justly, so the fact that some sinners ignore God’s Gospel indicates that His will or leading is resistible because of MFW. [resistible = or not = IF]
8. Romans 2:15 teaches that sinful souls have a conscience or awareness of “the requirements of the law”, which may be combined with Romans 1:20 to teach that God’s power and moral nature or will may be perceived via creation and conscience (called natural revelation), thus those unfamiliar with God’s Word in Scripture have no good reason for resisting divine leading and choosing atheism/evil. [resisting/choosing atheism is made possible by IF]
Rom. 3:9-18 says that all humanity are sinners or bent on sinning instead of following God’s law through which we become aware of sin, but it does NOT say, man is incapable of believing in Jesus and the Gospel, because the disobedience of Adam and Eve caused all humans to be born with an inherited sin nature and thus having a saving faith is against their very nature.
Re "God does not love everyone": I advise you not to demean divine love.
TBC...
Re Rom. 9, I can understand how those who do not harmonize it with what precedes get the wrong interpretation, so here is the rest of the context that was cited in my previous post:
9. Romans 3:20-21 states the law makes souls conscious of sin and that “the Law and Prophets testify” or prepare the way for the new revelation of righteousness from God apart from the Law, which takes up where Romans 1:17 left off. [IF in the OT is found in Deut. 30:19]
10. Romans 3:22a says that “righteousness from God” or s/e comes through faith “in Jesus Christ” (cf. Eph. 2:8), a phrase Paul used eleven times in Ephesians 1:3-14 to indicate s/e. [IF = faith; in JC–or not/in self/Satan]
11. Romans 3:22b says that God’s righteousness is given “to all who believe—there is no difference”” signifying that all sinners may believe or be s/e (cf. 1Tim. 2:3-4, John 3:16, Tit. 2:11), because there is no favoritism (#7). [may–or may not = IF]
12. Romans 3:23 teaches that “all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God”, meaning that no one can be good enough to earn salvation because of their own merit. [thus IF must choose belief in JC]
13. Romans 3:24 says sinners “are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus” (via faith per v.22, cf. 3:27-28); s/e is free because Christ paid the price/cost. [IF whosoever believes in JC]
14. Romans 3:25a explains redemption as being “a sacrifice of atonement” for those who have faith in Christ’s work of dying in their place. [IF whosoever believes in JC]
15. Romans 3:25b further explains that God demonstrated his just patience (#3) or forbearance in leaving unpunished those sins committed before the revealing of the Gospel (foreshadowed in Gen. 22:8 & 13), implying that sinners had/have the opportunity to believe and be s/e thereby demonstrating God’s justice/not showing favoritism (#11). [opportunity = IF ]
16. Romans 3:26 continues to emphasize divine justice by declaring it three ways (“justice…, just…, justifies”), which justness is synonymous with righteousness (2Thes. 1:5-6, Heb. 6:10). [IF indicates God’s just judgment]
17. Romans 4:1-25 presents Abraham as a Gentile who became the physical father of the Jews and the spiritual father of all who choose to have faith in God/Christ. [Abe was the first to satisfy the condition of IF by believing in God]
18. Romans 5:1 echoes Eph. 2:8 by describing s/e as justification through faith, Eph. 1:5 & 7 by using the phrase “through Jesus Christ”, and Eph. 2:14 by describing s/e as having peace with God. [IF whosoever believes in JC]
19. Romans 5:2 & 5 also echo Eph. 2:18 & 3:1 by describing s/e as having access to God’s grace via the Holy Spirit.
20. Romans 5:6-10 states that God’s love (cf. kindness in #3) for the ungodly, for sinners and for His enemies is demonstrated by Christ dying for their s/e or justification/reconciliation.
21. Romans 5:12-21 describes s/e in corporate terms, saying that–like the first man–all (many?) men also sinned and died, and God’s grace comes to all (many?) because of Jesus Christ.
22. Romans 6:1-14 describes s/e in terms of Christians being united with Christ’s death and resurrection, so they who are under grace should not allow sin to reign in their bodies but should instead serve God as instruments of righteousness.
23. Romans 6:15-23 describes s/e in terms of being slaves to whom one willingly obeys, whether to sin or to obedience of God’s teaching that leads to righteousness, which results in eternal life “in Christ Jesus our Lord” (cf. #10).
24. Romans 7:1-6 describes s/e in terms of a wife’s remarriage after the death of her husband, saying that Christians have been released from the dead letter of the law so that they may serve God in the new way of the Spirit.
25. In Romans 7:7-25 Paul describes s/e in terms of struggle between what a person’s conscience wants to do and what his sinful nature causes him to do until he is rescued by Christ.
26. In Romans 8:1-25 Paul describes the s/e struggle in terms of Christians–who are indwelt by the Spirit and freed from living in accordance with the sinful nature—as putting to death sinful deeds, because they are God’s children and co-heirs of Christ’s glorious resurrection.
27. In Romans 8:28-30 Paul says that those who love God were foreknown and “predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son”, which is akin to what Paul said in Ephesians 1:4-14, that before creating the world God chose or predestined those sinners “in Christ” to be blameless sons and receive the Holy Spirit.
28. Romans 8:31-39 elaborates on the previous point by saying that there is nothing that can separate “we” (who reflect God’s love per v.28) from Christ’s love (but Heb. 10:26-36 indicates one exception).
29. In Romans 9:1-5 Paul notes how sad it is that those who are part of the human ancestry of Christ reject him as Messiah, but being a member of Abraham’s spiritual children is what is crucial (#17).
30. Romans 9:6-13 states that God had chosen which one of Rebecca’s sons (through whom Messiah’s lineage would be traced) before they were born (cf. Mal. 1:2-3). The word translated as “hate” (miseo) is the same as in Luke 14:26 with reference to family, so a better translation would be “preferred”: loving Jacob/hating Esau refers to God preferring that Jacob’s descendants serve as the heritage for Messiah rather than to individual salvation.
Rom. 9:11-16 says that God’s purpose in election is for salvation not to be by means of works or human effort but by God having mercy on whom He wants or chooses.
31. Romans 9:14-16 stresses that s/e depends on God’s mercy rather than being achieved by human effort (#12), although the preceding context has shown that (the non-meritorious condition of) faith is involved, which truth can be stated as “God initiates; sinners cooperate—or not”, because of MFW.
32. Romans 9:17 refers to pharaoh in Exodus 9:13-35 as an example of someone whom God allowed to oppose His will so that His power might be manifested by the plagues. The OT passage indicates that pharaoh was conscious of his sin but “He and his officials hardened their hearts” (v.34b).
33. Romans 9:18 says that God “hardens whom He wants to harden”, which raises the question asked in v.19, “Why does God blame sinners who cannot resist His will?” Paul’s response (Rom. 9:20-21) is that God has the might and thus the right to determine what is right. Then he speculates (“What if”) that God might have patiently endured evildoers (#20) as evidence of His glory toward recipients of His mercy. Rom. 9:22-23 indicates that God could have chosen to condemn everyone to show his power, but some are shown mercy, presumably those who did NOT refuse to love the truth.
34. In Romans 9:24-33 and 10:1-4 Paul notes that God elected to choose Gentiles with saving faith instead of Israelites who sought salvation by works and stumbled over the Gospel of Christ, even though “everyone who believes” receives righteousness or s/e.
TBC...
9. Romans 3:20-21 states the law makes souls conscious of sin and that “the Law and Prophets testify” or prepare the way for the new revelation of righteousness from God apart from the Law, which takes up where Romans 1:17 left off. [IF in the OT is found in Deut. 30:19]
10. Romans 3:22a says that “righteousness from God” or s/e comes through faith “in Jesus Christ” (cf. Eph. 2:8), a phrase Paul used eleven times in Ephesians 1:3-14 to indicate s/e. [IF = faith; in JC–or not/in self/Satan]
11. Romans 3:22b says that God’s righteousness is given “to all who believe—there is no difference”” signifying that all sinners may believe or be s/e (cf. 1Tim. 2:3-4, John 3:16, Tit. 2:11), because there is no favoritism (#7). [may–or may not = IF]
12. Romans 3:23 teaches that “all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God”, meaning that no one can be good enough to earn salvation because of their own merit. [thus IF must choose belief in JC]
13. Romans 3:24 says sinners “are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus” (via faith per v.22, cf. 3:27-28); s/e is free because Christ paid the price/cost. [IF whosoever believes in JC]
14. Romans 3:25a explains redemption as being “a sacrifice of atonement” for those who have faith in Christ’s work of dying in their place. [IF whosoever believes in JC]
15. Romans 3:25b further explains that God demonstrated his just patience (#3) or forbearance in leaving unpunished those sins committed before the revealing of the Gospel (foreshadowed in Gen. 22:8 & 13), implying that sinners had/have the opportunity to believe and be s/e thereby demonstrating God’s justice/not showing favoritism (#11). [opportunity = IF ]
16. Romans 3:26 continues to emphasize divine justice by declaring it three ways (“justice…, just…, justifies”), which justness is synonymous with righteousness (2Thes. 1:5-6, Heb. 6:10). [IF indicates God’s just judgment]
17. Romans 4:1-25 presents Abraham as a Gentile who became the physical father of the Jews and the spiritual father of all who choose to have faith in God/Christ. [Abe was the first to satisfy the condition of IF by believing in God]
18. Romans 5:1 echoes Eph. 2:8 by describing s/e as justification through faith, Eph. 1:5 & 7 by using the phrase “through Jesus Christ”, and Eph. 2:14 by describing s/e as having peace with God. [IF whosoever believes in JC]
19. Romans 5:2 & 5 also echo Eph. 2:18 & 3:1 by describing s/e as having access to God’s grace via the Holy Spirit.
20. Romans 5:6-10 states that God’s love (cf. kindness in #3) for the ungodly, for sinners and for His enemies is demonstrated by Christ dying for their s/e or justification/reconciliation.
21. Romans 5:12-21 describes s/e in corporate terms, saying that–like the first man–all (many?) men also sinned and died, and God’s grace comes to all (many?) because of Jesus Christ.
22. Romans 6:1-14 describes s/e in terms of Christians being united with Christ’s death and resurrection, so they who are under grace should not allow sin to reign in their bodies but should instead serve God as instruments of righteousness.
23. Romans 6:15-23 describes s/e in terms of being slaves to whom one willingly obeys, whether to sin or to obedience of God’s teaching that leads to righteousness, which results in eternal life “in Christ Jesus our Lord” (cf. #10).
24. Romans 7:1-6 describes s/e in terms of a wife’s remarriage after the death of her husband, saying that Christians have been released from the dead letter of the law so that they may serve God in the new way of the Spirit.
25. In Romans 7:7-25 Paul describes s/e in terms of struggle between what a person’s conscience wants to do and what his sinful nature causes him to do until he is rescued by Christ.
26. In Romans 8:1-25 Paul describes the s/e struggle in terms of Christians–who are indwelt by the Spirit and freed from living in accordance with the sinful nature—as putting to death sinful deeds, because they are God’s children and co-heirs of Christ’s glorious resurrection.
27. In Romans 8:28-30 Paul says that those who love God were foreknown and “predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son”, which is akin to what Paul said in Ephesians 1:4-14, that before creating the world God chose or predestined those sinners “in Christ” to be blameless sons and receive the Holy Spirit.
28. Romans 8:31-39 elaborates on the previous point by saying that there is nothing that can separate “we” (who reflect God’s love per v.28) from Christ’s love (but Heb. 10:26-36 indicates one exception).
29. In Romans 9:1-5 Paul notes how sad it is that those who are part of the human ancestry of Christ reject him as Messiah, but being a member of Abraham’s spiritual children is what is crucial (#17).
30. Romans 9:6-13 states that God had chosen which one of Rebecca’s sons (through whom Messiah’s lineage would be traced) before they were born (cf. Mal. 1:2-3). The word translated as “hate” (miseo) is the same as in Luke 14:26 with reference to family, so a better translation would be “preferred”: loving Jacob/hating Esau refers to God preferring that Jacob’s descendants serve as the heritage for Messiah rather than to individual salvation.
Rom. 9:11-16 says that God’s purpose in election is for salvation not to be by means of works or human effort but by God having mercy on whom He wants or chooses.
31. Romans 9:14-16 stresses that s/e depends on God’s mercy rather than being achieved by human effort (#12), although the preceding context has shown that (the non-meritorious condition of) faith is involved, which truth can be stated as “God initiates; sinners cooperate—or not”, because of MFW.
32. Romans 9:17 refers to pharaoh in Exodus 9:13-35 as an example of someone whom God allowed to oppose His will so that His power might be manifested by the plagues. The OT passage indicates that pharaoh was conscious of his sin but “He and his officials hardened their hearts” (v.34b).
33. Romans 9:18 says that God “hardens whom He wants to harden”, which raises the question asked in v.19, “Why does God blame sinners who cannot resist His will?” Paul’s response (Rom. 9:20-21) is that God has the might and thus the right to determine what is right. Then he speculates (“What if”) that God might have patiently endured evildoers (#20) as evidence of His glory toward recipients of His mercy. Rom. 9:22-23 indicates that God could have chosen to condemn everyone to show his power, but some are shown mercy, presumably those who did NOT refuse to love the truth.
34. In Romans 9:24-33 and 10:1-4 Paul notes that God elected to choose Gentiles with saving faith instead of Israelites who sought salvation by works and stumbled over the Gospel of Christ, even though “everyone who believes” receives righteousness or s/e.
TBC...
Re 2Tim. 2:25, "In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth": We know that God wants all to repent because of what Paul said in 1Tim. 2:3-4.
Re "[Heb 6:1 KJV] 1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,": Again, how can you cite it but not see what it means?!
Re "Romans 1:20 is correct, all are without excuse, but, the verse does not state that they were given spiritual discernment.": Explain how they could be without excuse without discerning God's requirement for salvation, however primitively compared to the NT.
Re "Spiritual discernment only comes with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit": That is not what Jesus indicates in Matt. 4:17 & 7:7.
Re "1Cor. 2:14 KJV] 14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.": In order to understand Scripture correctly, one must consider both the immediate context and NT teaching. Here is relevant immediate context for that verse:
1Cor. 1:21b, “God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.” God’s method of saving sinners or natural men is via revealing the Gospel, and we know from 1Tim. 2:3-4 that God desires all to believe and be saved.
1Cor. 1:23-24, “We preach Christ crucified… to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.” Again, “We preach to all natural men”, and “to those natural men God has called”.
This prompts the question: Is “desire” in 1Tim. 2:3-4 synonymous with God’s “calling” in 1Cor.1:24–and we might add with God’s “drawing” in John 12:32 and with God’s “invitation” in Matt. 22:14 and with God’s kind leading in Rom. 2:4? The last verse and John 13:18 indicate that although God loves and wants to save every natural man, some ignore/reject/resist His desire/calling/drawing/invitation and are therefore not chosen or saved, while some do NOT resist God’s calling but rather believe the Gospel, realizing its wisdom and power to save, at which point they become chosen/elect.
1Cor. 1:26, “Brothers, think of what you were when you were called… Not many were influential.” They were natural men in the lower social class, but yet they believed or cooperated with God’s calling.
1Cor. 1:27-28, “God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise… the lowly… and the despised”. God’s saving of despised natural men was intended to humble all natural men, so that “no one may boast before him” (1Cor. 1:29).
1Cor. 2:1-2, “When I came to you, brothers… I proclaimed to you… Jesus Christ and him crucified.” Paul reiterated that God saved some natural men via them accepting Paul’s preaching of the Gospel. When they believe, they receive God’s HS per Rom. 5:5.
1Cor. 2:10, “God has revealed it to us by his Spirit.” God’s HS enables natural men to seek, find (Matt. 7:7-9), believe the Gospel and receive the HS/be saved (or not).
Re "To understand 1 Tim 2:3-4 we need to look at it in light of John 17:2, 9": Okay, and the way to harmonize them is by understanding that 1Tim. 2:3-4 teaches God wants everyone to become disciples of Messiah, and in John 17:2, 9 &20-23 Jesus prays for his disciples to be one.
You've got a lot of kicking to do, over...
Re "[Heb 6:1 KJV] 1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,": Again, how can you cite it but not see what it means?!
Re "Romans 1:20 is correct, all are without excuse, but, the verse does not state that they were given spiritual discernment.": Explain how they could be without excuse without discerning God's requirement for salvation, however primitively compared to the NT.
Re "Spiritual discernment only comes with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit": That is not what Jesus indicates in Matt. 4:17 & 7:7.
Re "1Cor. 2:14 KJV] 14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.": In order to understand Scripture correctly, one must consider both the immediate context and NT teaching. Here is relevant immediate context for that verse:
1Cor. 1:21b, “God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.” God’s method of saving sinners or natural men is via revealing the Gospel, and we know from 1Tim. 2:3-4 that God desires all to believe and be saved.
1Cor. 1:23-24, “We preach Christ crucified… to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.” Again, “We preach to all natural men”, and “to those natural men God has called”.
This prompts the question: Is “desire” in 1Tim. 2:3-4 synonymous with God’s “calling” in 1Cor.1:24–and we might add with God’s “drawing” in John 12:32 and with God’s “invitation” in Matt. 22:14 and with God’s kind leading in Rom. 2:4? The last verse and John 13:18 indicate that although God loves and wants to save every natural man, some ignore/reject/resist His desire/calling/drawing/invitation and are therefore not chosen or saved, while some do NOT resist God’s calling but rather believe the Gospel, realizing its wisdom and power to save, at which point they become chosen/elect.
1Cor. 1:26, “Brothers, think of what you were when you were called… Not many were influential.” They were natural men in the lower social class, but yet they believed or cooperated with God’s calling.
1Cor. 1:27-28, “God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise… the lowly… and the despised”. God’s saving of despised natural men was intended to humble all natural men, so that “no one may boast before him” (1Cor. 1:29).
1Cor. 2:1-2, “When I came to you, brothers… I proclaimed to you… Jesus Christ and him crucified.” Paul reiterated that God saved some natural men via them accepting Paul’s preaching of the Gospel. When they believe, they receive God’s HS per Rom. 5:5.
1Cor. 2:10, “God has revealed it to us by his Spirit.” God’s HS enables natural men to seek, find (Matt. 7:7-9), believe the Gospel and receive the HS/be saved (or not).
Re "To understand 1 Tim 2:3-4 we need to look at it in light of John 17:2, 9": Okay, and the way to harmonize them is by understanding that 1Tim. 2:3-4 teaches God wants everyone to become disciples of Messiah, and in John 17:2, 9 &20-23 Jesus prays for his disciples to be one.
You've got a lot of kicking to do, over...
@GWH
You and "Bright" are free to deny GW, but what I have already cited (Rom. 3:21-5:1, Matt. 4:17, Eph. 2:8-9, 1Tim. 2:3-4, etc.) seem clear enough to me, and I see no good reason to kick against believing them as I have already explained: saving faith is not meritorious as you insist on saying.
You cited Tit. 3:4-7 but failed to see that "through" in verse 6 is equivalent to "through" in Eph. 2:8, indicating the condition of faith.
Ditto re 2Tim. 1:9 KJV, in which "in" means "faith in", as in Eph. 1:1-13.
Ditto re 1Cor. 6:11, in which "in the name" means "faith in the name", as in John 3:16.
True, it is equivalent, however, what you miss is that the “through" of Eph is speaking of Christ’s faith not man’s faith
Re Rom. 9:16, the context needs to be considered, which includes Rom. 3:21-5:1 and what preceded that passage:
1. Romans 1:16 says the Gospel reveals that (s/e) is for “everyone who believes”, both Jew and Gentile. [IF whosoever believes]
But true belief is given by God. It does not originate from man. Man is dead in sin and therefore cannot believe
2. Romans 1:17 describes s/e as “righteousness from God” that is by faith “from first to last” or from creation until the end. [IF whosoever believes from conversion until death]
Not from first to last but from faith to faith. Romans 1:17 is saying that faith is imputed from Christ to those whom He saves
[Rom 4:9 KJV] 9 [Cometh] this blessedness then upon the circumcision [only], or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.
3. Romans 2:4 teaches that God’s kindness or patience with sinners is meant to lead them toward repentance, which implies that sinners are able to repent because of God’s leading. [IF whosoever repents of unbelief/ignoring GW]
Not sure how you can cite it but not see it: "[Rom 2:4 KJV] 4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?"
Nope, doesn’t say that. Leadeth means to brings to. If brought to, then they have been given it - not that God stops just short of it.
4. Romans 2:5 warns that those who do not repent but instead stubbornly resist God’s leading are storing up wrath against themselves for the day when God’s righteous judgment will be revealed, which implies that God enables sinners to repent–or not (cf. Deut. 30:19). [“or not” signifies IF ]
Romans 2:5 is saying that the unsaved have an impenitent heart and they will be judged accordingly
5. Romans 2:6 affirms what is called karma by saying that “God will give to each person according to what he has done”, which (in Gal. 6:7-9) is called reaping what a person sows. [IF whosoever believes, then heaven, IF not–then hell]
Will give to each measured against what Christ has done. The unsaved will fall far short.
6. Romans 2:7 speaks of the need for “persistence in doing good” and seeking glory, honor and immortality in order to receive s/e or eternal life, which echoes what Jesus commanded (in Matt. 7:7) and connects with the doctrine of perseverance (cf. Heb. 10:36 & Jam. 1:3-4). [IF whosoever perseveres in saving belief]
In Romans 2:7, the “doing good” is of their trust in Christ not their works for salvation
7. Romans 2:11 teaches that “God does not show favoritism” (cf. Eph. 6:9, Col. 3:25, 1Pet. 1:17), which is how God judges people justly, so the fact that some sinners ignore God’s Gospel indicates that His will or leading is resistible because of MFW. [resistible = or not = IF]
God does not show favoritism, but that means He is not swayed by anyone's works. It is speaking to those already saved, not everyone. The "doeth wrong" of Col 3:25 is in their trusting in works of righteousness instead of Christ as Savior.
8. Romans 2:15 teaches that sinful souls have a conscience or awareness of “the requirements of the law”, which may be combined with Romans 1:20 to teach that God’s power and moral nature or will may be perceived via creation and conscience (called natural revelation), thus those unfamiliar with God’s Word in Scripture have no good reason for resisting divine leading and choosing atheism/evil. [resisting/choosing atheism is made possible by IF]
It is speaking of the unsaved who try to follow the law of righteousness unsuccessfully and do not trust in Christ as Savior.
Rom 1:20 does not say that. 1 Co 2:14 tells us otherwise. Need to first have the Holy Spirit to comprehend the spiritual
Rom. 3:9-18 says that all humanity are sinners or bent on sinning instead of following God’s law through which we become aware of sin, but it does NOT say, man is incapable of believing in Jesus and the Gospel, because the disobedience of Adam and Eve caused all humans to be born with an inherited sin nature and thus having a saving faith is against their very nature.
That’s exactly what it does say – that man of himself is incapable of believing. Observe:
[Rom 3:11-12 KJV]
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
[Jhn 12:39-40 KJV] 39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again, 40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with [their] eyes, nor understand with [their] heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.
Re "God does not love everyone": I advise you not to demean divine love.
I demean nothing. That is from Scripture.
[Rom 9:13-14 KJV]
13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
14 What shall we say then? [Is there] unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
Clear as can be!
tbc
You and "Bright" are free to deny GW, but what I have already cited (Rom. 3:21-5:1, Matt. 4:17, Eph. 2:8-9, 1Tim. 2:3-4, etc.) seem clear enough to me, and I see no good reason to kick against believing them as I have already explained: saving faith is not meritorious as you insist on saying.
You cited Tit. 3:4-7 but failed to see that "through" in verse 6 is equivalent to "through" in Eph. 2:8, indicating the condition of faith.
Ditto re 2Tim. 1:9 KJV, in which "in" means "faith in", as in Eph. 1:1-13.
Ditto re 1Cor. 6:11, in which "in the name" means "faith in the name", as in John 3:16.
True, it is equivalent, however, what you miss is that the “through" of Eph is speaking of Christ’s faith not man’s faith
Re Rom. 9:16, the context needs to be considered, which includes Rom. 3:21-5:1 and what preceded that passage:
1. Romans 1:16 says the Gospel reveals that (s/e) is for “everyone who believes”, both Jew and Gentile. [IF whosoever believes]
But true belief is given by God. It does not originate from man. Man is dead in sin and therefore cannot believe
2. Romans 1:17 describes s/e as “righteousness from God” that is by faith “from first to last” or from creation until the end. [IF whosoever believes from conversion until death]
Not from first to last but from faith to faith. Romans 1:17 is saying that faith is imputed from Christ to those whom He saves
[Rom 4:9 KJV] 9 [Cometh] this blessedness then upon the circumcision [only], or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.
3. Romans 2:4 teaches that God’s kindness or patience with sinners is meant to lead them toward repentance, which implies that sinners are able to repent because of God’s leading. [IF whosoever repents of unbelief/ignoring GW]
Not sure how you can cite it but not see it: "[Rom 2:4 KJV] 4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?"
Nope, doesn’t say that. Leadeth means to brings to. If brought to, then they have been given it - not that God stops just short of it.
4. Romans 2:5 warns that those who do not repent but instead stubbornly resist God’s leading are storing up wrath against themselves for the day when God’s righteous judgment will be revealed, which implies that God enables sinners to repent–or not (cf. Deut. 30:19). [“or not” signifies IF ]
Romans 2:5 is saying that the unsaved have an impenitent heart and they will be judged accordingly
5. Romans 2:6 affirms what is called karma by saying that “God will give to each person according to what he has done”, which (in Gal. 6:7-9) is called reaping what a person sows. [IF whosoever believes, then heaven, IF not–then hell]
Will give to each measured against what Christ has done. The unsaved will fall far short.
6. Romans 2:7 speaks of the need for “persistence in doing good” and seeking glory, honor and immortality in order to receive s/e or eternal life, which echoes what Jesus commanded (in Matt. 7:7) and connects with the doctrine of perseverance (cf. Heb. 10:36 & Jam. 1:3-4). [IF whosoever perseveres in saving belief]
In Romans 2:7, the “doing good” is of their trust in Christ not their works for salvation
7. Romans 2:11 teaches that “God does not show favoritism” (cf. Eph. 6:9, Col. 3:25, 1Pet. 1:17), which is how God judges people justly, so the fact that some sinners ignore God’s Gospel indicates that His will or leading is resistible because of MFW. [resistible = or not = IF]
God does not show favoritism, but that means He is not swayed by anyone's works. It is speaking to those already saved, not everyone. The "doeth wrong" of Col 3:25 is in their trusting in works of righteousness instead of Christ as Savior.
8. Romans 2:15 teaches that sinful souls have a conscience or awareness of “the requirements of the law”, which may be combined with Romans 1:20 to teach that God’s power and moral nature or will may be perceived via creation and conscience (called natural revelation), thus those unfamiliar with God’s Word in Scripture have no good reason for resisting divine leading and choosing atheism/evil. [resisting/choosing atheism is made possible by IF]
It is speaking of the unsaved who try to follow the law of righteousness unsuccessfully and do not trust in Christ as Savior.
Rom 1:20 does not say that. 1 Co 2:14 tells us otherwise. Need to first have the Holy Spirit to comprehend the spiritual
Rom. 3:9-18 says that all humanity are sinners or bent on sinning instead of following God’s law through which we become aware of sin, but it does NOT say, man is incapable of believing in Jesus and the Gospel, because the disobedience of Adam and Eve caused all humans to be born with an inherited sin nature and thus having a saving faith is against their very nature.
That’s exactly what it does say – that man of himself is incapable of believing. Observe:
[Rom 3:11-12 KJV]
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
[Jhn 12:39-40 KJV] 39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again, 40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with [their] eyes, nor understand with [their] heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.
Re "God does not love everyone": I advise you not to demean divine love.
I demean nothing. That is from Scripture.
[Rom 9:13-14 KJV]
13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
14 What shall we say then? [Is there] unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
Clear as can be!
tbc
I agree with all of GW, just not with: a. your tulip interpretation, b. your claim that saving faith is meritorious, c. your weird belief that "through" refers to Christ's faith rather than to that of sinners, and d. your heretical demeaning of God's love for humanity.
You should harmonize John 12:40 with Matt. 13:14-15 & Acts 28:26-27. The OT sometimes seemed to blame God for sin, but the NT places the blame on sinners, who are able to repent because God gives them a moral conscience (Rom. 2:14-15). If they repent and believe in Messiah (Matt. 4:17, 7:7, John 6:29), they receive the HS (John 14:15-17, Rom. 5:5, Rev. 3:20).
Re Rom. 9:13-14:
30. Romans 9:6-13 states that God had chosen which one of Rebecca’s sons (through whom Messiah’s lineage would be traced) before they were born (cf. Mal. 1:2-3). The word translated as “hate” (miseo) is the same as in Luke 14:26 with reference to family, so a better translation would be “preferred”: loving Jacob/hating Esau refers to God preferring that Jacob’s descendants serve as the heritage for Messiah rather than to individual salvation.
Rom. 9:11-16 says that God’s purpose in election is for salvation not to be by means of works or human effort but by God having mercy on whom He wants or chooses.
31. Romans 9:14-16 stresses that s/e depends on God’s mercy rather than being achieved by human effort (#12), although the preceding context has shown that (the non-meritorious condition of) faith is involved, which truth can be stated as “God initiates; sinners cooperate—or not”, because of MFW.
32. Romans 9:17 refers to pharaoh in Exodus 9:13-35 as an example of someone whom God allowed to oppose His will so that His power might be manifested by the plagues. The OT passage indicates that pharaoh was conscious of his sin but “He and his officials hardened their hearts” (v.34b).
33. Romans 9:18 says that God “hardens whom He wants to harden”, which raises the question asked in v.19, “Why does God blame sinners who cannot resist His will?” Paul’s response (Rom. 9:20-21) is that God has the might and thus the right to determine what is right. Then he speculates (“What if”) that God might have patiently endured evildoers (#20 next) as evidence of His glory toward recipients of His mercy. Rom. 9:22-23 indicates that God could have chosen to condemn everyone to show his power, but some are shown mercy, presumably those who did NOT refuse to love the truth.
20. Romans 5:6-10 states that God’s love (cf. kindness in #3 next) for the ungodly, for sinners and for His enemies is demonstrated by Christ dying for their s/e or justification/reconciliation.
3. Romans 2:4 teaches that God’s kindness or patience with sinners is meant to lead them toward repentance, which implies that sinners are able to repent because of God’s leading. [IF whosoever repents of unbelief/ignoring GW]
Kicking time?
Amen, True believing is by the operation of Gods power, a clear apostolic teaching Eph 1:19-20
19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
So whenever we see believe in reference to salvation in the epistle like Rom 4:24
24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
Its safe to understand Gods power caused the believing, even though the exact wording isn't there, we know because of Eph 1:19-20
So ones believing is never a condition to get saved, but an evidence one is being saved and Gods power is at work causing it
The crux of our discussion of salvation, as I perceive it, is as follows: you say that you "admit" Christ is the Savior. However, with that admission, you eliminate all possibilities of adding any ifs, ands, or buts to that, because none are possible: Christ, stands alone - yet you would like it to mean something different than what it does mean - that man can also function in that role. A Savior is the singular person who controls salvation, not multiple people who share that control. Therefore, any requirements imposed upon someone to become saved besides that God chose them for salvation, are a logical impossibility and thereby eliminate God’s grace. Whether you realize it or not, you are trying to have it both ways - that Christ is the Savior, and yet, at the same time, that He is not. This perception means you either do not correctly comprehend or do not truly believe in what "Savior" represents, means, and implies, leaving you in an untenable logical position. So, with that, I suggest you revisit the doctrine of salvation in light of a Savior. You will know you understand it correctly when your biblical conclusions begin with Christ as Savior and end with Christ as Savior. Until then, not. Given that we both have such different and contradictory understandings of the fundamental tenets of salvation, I do not see them as reconcilable at this time. Therefore, for now, I bid you adieu and leave you to your works and law-based salvation theology.
Yes, the crux of our disagreement seems to be your insistence that God shows favoritism by unconditionally electing some humans and hating the rest. What you view as illogical is biblical, and orthodox Christians view tulipism as an heretical corruption of the Gospel.
You manifest another part of the crux after your adieu, showing that you view saving faith as meritorious, which contradicts Rom. 3:21-5:1, Eph. 2:8-9, etc.
51. T – Mark 7:21-23 lists some evil thoughts in sinful hearts, but it does not teach that evil people cannot repent. Rather, Jesus states this truth in order to prick sinners’ hearts and lead them to repent of ignoring the commands of God in order to preserve the traditions of men (Mark 7:6-13, R#3&4).
52. U – The only Scripture cited as specifically supporting this point is R#21, but only if universal salvation is also accepted as being taught by the reference to all/many, but Romans 5:17 limits the many to those who receive God’s grace, and Romans 4:16 & 5:1 teach that grace is received through faith, making it the condition for reception (s/e).
53. L – In Matthew 20:28 Jesus said that his life is given as a ransom for many (stated also in Hebrews 9:28), but this does not preclude anyone who has faith being included, and Scriptures such as 1Timothy 2:3-4 indicate God’s desire for all to become “many” (John 3:16, Acts 2:21, 1John 2:2), indicating that although Christ’s death atoned for the sins of all humanity only for those who accept Jesus as Messiah does it result in forgiveness (s/e, R#14&18).
54. I – Phil. 2:13 says that God works in believers to will and act according to His good purpose, but this does not mean that believers do not willingly cooperate (R#23).
55. P – John 10:27-29 states that Jesus gives his sheep eternal life, and no one can snatch them, which is stated by Paul in Romans 8:35-39 as being separated from the love of God in Christ. However, there are numerous Scriptures indicating that a believer may not persevere (including John 8:31, Matt. 10:22& Heb. 10:36), so although God gives endurance per Romans 15:4-5, it too must be received through continued faith (2Cor. 5:7) “from first to last” (Romans 1:17). Thus, being “unsnatchable” does not disallow a person from choosing to jump out of the “Father’s hand”. Also, in John 6:37 “never drive away” does not mean a person cannot go away, and in John 6:39 “I shall lose none” may refer to those who persevere or do not stray, who stand firm, who endure, who hold firmly, etc.
56. M – Gen. 2:17 begins the biblical revelation of God’s moral nature and requirement and is followed up by Gen. 6:5-6 revealing that God is grieved by sin, which truth Paul noted in Eph. 4:30. A main point of the Sermon on the Mount (Matt. 5-7) per Jesus in Matt. 5:20 is that souls should be righteous, and main point of the Sermon on Salvation (Rom. 1-11) per Paul in Rom. 3:21-22 is that righteousness is attained through faith in Jesus as Lord (cf. Acts 16:30-31).
57. F – Deut. 30:19 is one of the clearest statements of the condition of volition in Scripture, and Jesus lamented the sinful misuse of this divine gift in Matt. 23:37. Jesus commanded the correct application of volition in Matt. 7:7 (cf. Heb. 11:6). Paul indicates that God enables sinners to seek salvation in Rom. 2:4, where he says that God’s kindness toward sinners leads them toward repentance. In 1Tim. 2:3-4 Paul taught that God wants all souls to be saved, but he lamented that many resisted God’s will in Acts 28:26-27, like Jesus did in Matt. 13:14-15.
58. W – The short version of Paul’s Sermon on Salvation in Romans is found in Eph. 2:8-10, which states that God’s grace is received through faith, not works, implying that the condition of cooperating (called partnership in Phil. 1:4-5, cf. 2:12-13) with God both by professing Christ at conversion (from first/first day) and by producing the fruit of the Spirit during sanctification (to last/the day of Christ Jesus) is NOT meritorious or a reason to think salvation is earned (Rom. 1:17). However, choosing to disbelieve God or resist His kindness does manifest spiritual separation from His blessings and warrant eventual experiencing of divine wrath per Rom. 2:4-6 (cf. Matt. 23:37).
Adios.
Its not favortism because election is of grace, the recipients are ungodly, worthy of condemnation and hate, but its Sovereignty, He has the right and does choose some for salvation and not others, for the Glory of His Grace Eph 1:6
To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
All humanity are worthy of condemnation, but Jesus taught us to love enemies as God does (Matt. 5:40&44).
Saving only some is indeed favoritism; I pity your unfavored child.
TOP #22: For Jews, obeying the Mosaic Law will serve as the basis of divine judgment. [Rom. 2:9-13&16] Verse 11 teaches that “God does not show favoritism” (cf. Eph. 6:9, Col. 3:25, 1Pet. 1:17).
TOP #25: All have sinned by breaking moral law but may be justified by God’s grace through faith in Christ’s redemption or atonement. [Rom. 3:9-26] Verse 21 states that “the Law and Prophets testify” or prepare the way for the new revelation of righteousness from God apart from the Law, which takes up where Romans 1:17 left off. Verse 22a says that “righteousness from God” or s/e comes through faith “in Jesus Christ” (cf. Eph. 2:8), a phrase Paul used eleven times in Ephesians 1:3-14 to indicate s/e. Verse 22b says that God’s righteousness is given “to all who believe—there is no difference”” signifying that all sinners may believe or be s/e (cf. 1Tim. 2:3-4, John 3:16, Tit. 2:11), because there is no favoritism (#22).
Verse 23 teaches that “all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God”, meaning that no one can be good enough to earn salvation because of their own merit, and verse 24 says sinners “are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus” (via faith per v.22, cf. Rom. 3:27-28); s/e is free because Christ paid the price/cost. Verse 25a explains the cost of redemption as being “a sacrifice of atonement” for those who have faith in Christ’s work of dying in their place, and verse 25b further explains that God demonstrated his just patience or forbearance in leaving unpunished those sins committed before the revealing of the Gospel (foreshadowed in Gen. 22:8 & 13), implying that sinners had/have the opportunity to believe and be s/e thereby demonstrating God’s justice/not showing favoritism (#22). Verse 26 continues to emphasize divine justice by declaring it three ways (“justice…, just…, justifies”), which justness is synonymous with righteousness (2Thes. 1:5-6, Heb. 6:10).
Pray you learn to love ASAP (Eph. 3:14-19).
EPH 3:14-17a, “For this reason I kneel before the Father, from whom his whole family in heaven and on earth derives its name. I pray that out of his glorious riches he may strengthen you with power through his Spirit in your inner being, so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith.”
Paul prays for the Ephesians not to be discouraged, apparently continuing the line of thought that began in v.1, and kneeling indicates humility (cf. Phil. 2:10, Rom. 14:11). The exact meaning of this regarding the “name” is unclear. Paul referred to the riches of Christ in Eph. 3:8, 2:4 & 7 and 1:18. God’s power was cited in Eph 3:7 & 1:19, where it referred to raising Christ from the dead. The Spirit was mentioned in Eph. 3:5, 2:18 & 22 and 1:13. Christ’s indwelling is indicated in Rev. 3:20.
EPH 3:17b-19, “And I pray that you, being rooted and established in love, may have power, together with all the saints, to grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the love of Christ, and to know this love that surpasses knowledge—that you may be filled to the measure of all the fulness of God.”
Perhaps the context of this prayer is 1Cor. 13:1-13 or Rom. 5:5-8 or even John 13:34-35. “Power to grasp” means ability to understand, which Paul hopes all Christians will have. In Paul’s reference to the dimensions of love in physical terms surely means to portray the spiritual dimension of infinite divine love. Although the infinite or supernatural is beyond the ability of finite and fallible humans to comprehend, Paul prays for maximum maturity in this regard, and he tells how to achieve it in the next chapter. Maximum earthly Christ-likeness is viewed as being filled with the Holy Spirit. Again Rom. 5:5-8 may be helpful context—and persevering Spirit-filling should be assumed to be intended, as indicated in Eph. 6:10-18.
Even those of us who make every effort to practice God's Will get tempted by free will... But God will judge each heart to rid us of it...
The question really is:
Free Will versus God's Will?
-or-
Tree of the Knowledge of Good & Evil versus the Tree of Life.
I believe the scripture when it warns that sin comes from within us... that's the fuel for free will. We'll certainly suffer loss during judgement/purification, some more than others.
If we suffer loss, voluntarily... If we "die to ourselves" a little every day, then "free will" becomes nothing more than an ancient philosophy of pagans... and not of the the children of God.
It's a decision that each one of us must make...
"If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice." -NP
The question really is:
Free Will versus God's Will?
-or-
Tree of the Knowledge of Good & Evil versus the Tree of Life.
I believe the scripture when it warns that sin comes from within us... that's the fuel for free will. We'll certainly suffer loss during judgement/purification, some more than others.
If we suffer loss, voluntarily... If we "die to ourselves" a little every day, then "free will" becomes nothing more than an ancient philosophy of pagans... and not of the the children of God.
It's a decision that each one of us must make...
"If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice." -NP
All humanity are worthy of condemnation, but Jesus taught us to love enemies as God does (Matt. 5:40&44).
Saving only some is indeed favoritism; I pity your unfavored child.
TOP #22: For Jews, obeying the Mosaic Law will serve as the basis of divine judgment. [Rom. 2:9-13&16] Verse 11 teaches that “God does not show favoritism” (cf. Eph. 6:9, Col. 3:25, 1Pet. 1:17).
TOP #25: All have sinned by breaking moral law but may be justified by God’s grace through faith in Christ’s redemption or atonement. [Rom. 3:9-26] Verse 21 states that “the Law and Prophets testify” or prepare the way for the new revelation of righteousness from God apart from the Law, which takes up where Romans 1:17 left off. Verse 22a says that “righteousness from God” or s/e comes through faith “in Jesus Christ” (cf. Eph. 2:8), a phrase Paul used eleven times in Ephesians 1:3-14 to indicate s/e. Verse 22b says that God’s righteousness is given “to all who believe—there is no difference”” signifying that all sinners may believe or be s/e (cf. 1Tim. 2:3-4, John 3:16, Tit. 2:11), because there is no favoritism (#22).
Verse 23 teaches that “all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God”, meaning that no one can be good enough to earn salvation because of their own merit, and verse 24 says sinners “are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus” (via faith per v.22, cf. Rom. 3:27-28); s/e is free because Christ paid the price/cost. Verse 25a explains the cost of redemption as being “a sacrifice of atonement” for those who have faith in Christ’s work of dying in their place, and verse 25b further explains that God demonstrated his just patience or forbearance in leaving unpunished those sins committed before the revealing of the Gospel (foreshadowed in Gen. 22:8 & 13), implying that sinners had/have the opportunity to believe and be s/e thereby demonstrating God’s justice/not showing favoritism (#22). Verse 26 continues to emphasize divine justice by declaring it three ways (“justice…, just…, justifies”), which justness is synonymous with righteousness (2Thes. 1:5-6, Heb. 6:10).
Pray you learn to love ASAP (Eph. 3:14-19).
EPH 3:14-17a, “For this reason I kneel before the Father, from whom his whole family in heaven and on earth derives its name. I pray that out of his glorious riches he may strengthen you with power through his Spirit in your inner being, so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith.”
Paul prays for the Ephesians not to be discouraged, apparently continuing the line of thought that began in v.1, and kneeling indicates humility (cf. Phil. 2:10, Rom. 14:11). The exact meaning of this regarding the “name” is unclear. Paul referred to the riches of Christ in Eph. 3:8, 2:4 & 7 and 1:18. God’s power was cited in Eph 3:7 & 1:19, where it referred to raising Christ from the dead. The Spirit was mentioned in Eph. 3:5, 2:18 & 22 and 1:13. Christ’s indwelling is indicated in Rev. 3:20.
EPH 3:17b-19, “And I pray that you, being rooted and established in love, may have power, together with all the saints, to grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the love of Christ, and to know this love that surpasses knowledge—that you may be filled to the measure of all the fulness of God.”
Perhaps the context of this prayer is 1Cor. 13:1-13 or Rom. 5:5-8 or even John 13:34-35. “Power to grasp” means ability to understand, which Paul hopes all Christians will have. In Paul’s reference to the dimensions of love in physical terms surely means to portray the spiritual dimension of infinite divine love. Although the infinite or supernatural is beyond the ability of finite and fallible humans to comprehend, Paul prays for maximum maturity in this regard, and he tells how to achieve it in the next chapter. Maximum earthly Christ-likeness is viewed as being filled with the Holy Spirit. Again Rom. 5:5-8 may be helpful context—and persevering Spirit-filling should be assumed to be intended, as indicated in Eph. 6:10-18.
You dim and nutso, but wanna mulligan?