Reconciled to God while enemies !

[brightfame52]

I meant, the moment before they were reconciled, they were in a state of condemnation. Do you agree with that?

No I dont, they are born in sin and enemies already reconciled to God by His Death. Think, Christ died back in 33 ad and put away sin and reconciled the entire corporate body of Christ to God, so when whose born say in 1957 and Christ died for their sins in 33 ad they are born already legally reconciled to God by His death.

I don't understand what you mean by "already pardoned?"

Forgiveness of sins, sin put away by the death of Christ. You cant be reconciled to God and yet be unforgiven

 

[brightfame52]

It depends on what you mean by "incomplete."

What you think it means ? Total reconciliation comprises in both parties in agreement and fellowship/friendship.

 

[Roger316]

You just contradicted yourself pal You just posted earlier:

What I said wasn't intended as a contradiction, though I can see why you took it that way. I said "when we were reconciled" ,. . . Perhaps I should have said, "the split second just before we were reconciled.

 

[Roger316]

No I dont, they are born in sin and enemies already reconciled to God by His Death. Think, Christ died back in 33 ad and put away sin and reconciled the entire corporate body of Christ to God, so when whose born say in 1957 and Christ died for their sins in 33 ad they are born already legally reconciled to God by His death.

Not really. Again, reconciliation is not one-sided. I don't cease being God's enemy until I cease being God's enemy.

Forgiveness of sins, sin put away by the death of Christ. You cant be reconciled to God and yet be unforgiven

The Bible teaches an existential faith. That is, while Christ died for the whole world, his death doesn't apply to me, personally, unless I surrender, repent, and acknowledge that God has assigned Jesus to be my advocate.

 

[Roger316]

What you think it means ? Total reconciliation comprises in both parties in agreement and fellowship/friendship.

I agree, reconciliation is "complete" when both parties agree to end the hostilities. As you say, both parties are in agreement and fellowship/friendship. I give expression to my agreement when I repent and wholeheartedly seek God's forgiveness.

 

[rewriter]

I agree it's through His death we were reconciled, but if you skip back to chapter 5 it's clear that the way we enter into this grace is through faith.

"Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God." Romans 5:1-2

It's like if I said I have a crisp $1,000,000 dollar bill I want to give to you. It's yours, I've already made plans to give it to you; but you must meet me at such and such a place and at such and such a time to receive it. If you don't have faith and proceed to the meeting you'll never receive it.

I would amend that slightly. In my version, the money is deposited in a bank account that only the specific individual can access, even the donor cannot reclaim it. But if the one person never bothers to access that account, the money just sits there.

 

[brightfame52]

What I said wasn't intended as a contradiction, though I can see why you took it that way.

But it is a contradiction

Not really. Again, reconciliation is not one-sided. I don't cease being God's enemy until I cease being God's enemy.

One is reconciled to God by His death You either accept that or not. If you dont, thats unbelief Rom 5:10

The Bible teaches an existential faith. That is, while Christ died for the whole world, his death doesn't apply to me, personally, unless I surrender, repent, and acknowledge that God has assigned Jesus to be my advocate.

You are stuck in works and unbelief friend.

 

[Magenta]

Romans 8 verse 29-30; Ephesians 1 verse 5 ~ Those God foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers. And those He predestined, He also called; those He called, He also justified; those He justified, He also glorified. He predestined us for adoption as His sons through Jesus Christ, according to the good pleasure of His will.

 

[brightfame52]

I agree, reconciliation is "complete" when both parties agree to end the hostilities. As you say, both parties are in agreement and fellowship/friendship. I give expression to my agreement when I repent and wholeheartedly seek God's forgiveness.

So you contributed in making reconciliation complete, it wasnt accomplished by Christ alone, you had part to do. Thats works, you helped out the Death of Christ to do its job.

 

[GWH]

Not to be reconciled to God. The Death of Christ reconciled them He died for to God, even while they were being enemies to God Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

So stay focused on whats being said specifically with scripture.

Stay focused on not remaining God's enemy by not rejecting Matt. 5:44&48.
Connect the dots.

 

[brightfame52]

Stay focused on not remaining God's enemy by not rejecting Matt. 5:44&48.
Connect the dots.

Rabbit trail

 

[Pilgrimshope]

It depends on what you mean by "incomplete." Reconciliation isn’t one‑sided. Scripture describes a real conflict between God and humanity: God is rightly offended by sin, and humans are stubbornly resistant to Him. So if reconciliation is going to be complete, it has to deal with both sides of that hostility. On God’s side, His righteous anger must be satisfied — that’s atonement or propitiation. On our side, we must actually turn back to Him — that’s repentance and faith. Put simply, God must be appeased, and man must be changed. Without both, the relationship isn’t truly restored.

In Colossians 1:20–22 Paul shows that reconciliation has to deal with both sides of the conflict. On God’s side, His holy wrath against sin must be answered — that’s why Paul says peace comes “through the blood of His cross.” On our side, we are the ones who were “alienated and hostile in mind,” so reconciliation also requires that we be changed, brought back, and made holy. Paul’s point is that Christ’s death satisfies God’s righteous opposition to sin, and Christ’s resurrection life transforms our hostile hearts. Only when both God’s wrath is appeased and our hostility is surrendered is the relationship truly restored.

well said. Relationships require two people having a role that’s why believers are “ in Christ “ who’s with the father

“My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: and he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for our's only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭2:1-5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Love is mutual and active requiring self sacrifice and actions motivated by the love of God towards not only ourself but everyone else that we come in contact with …..love is mutual and it’s qualities like forgivness also mutual….

“For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:

but if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭6:14-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Rabbit trail

Here comes Peter cottontail ?

“if so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:

that ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;

and be renewed in the spirit of your mind; (to hear and believe what Jesus taught will change our thinking bout god )


and that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.


Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.

Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath: neither give place to the devil.

Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth. Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.

And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption. Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice: and be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4:21-32‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[brightfame52]

Here comes Peter cottontail ?

Thats all you can offer in this thread is rabbit trails, no sound doctrine.

 

[brightfame52]

One of the reasons why everyone Christ died for are reconciled to God by His Death only, even while they are enemies or unbelievers , is because there is no sins against God's Law imputed to them, Christ's death has paid in full for them, and God has nothing against them, even while they themselves are enemies and unbelievers.

So its impossible for unbelievers whom Christ died for, to at anytime be considered one of the unbelievers pointed out here Jn 3:18 or Jn 3:36 !

Those are only unbelievers Christ did not died for and did not reconciled to God by His Death !

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Thats all you can offer in this thread is rabbit trails, no sound doctrine.

Yeah that darn Bible who’s ever gonna find any sound doctrine there

 

[Roger316]

So you contributed in making reconciliation complete, it wasnt accomplished by Christ alone, you had part to do. Thats works, you helped out the Death of Christ to do its job.

That's right. It wasn't accomplished by Christ alone.

 

[brightfame52]

That's right. It wasn't accomplished by Christ alone.

That opposes Christ !

 

[Roger316]

But it is a contradiction

I didn't contradict myself. How absurd to think that I would. You simply didn't understand what I said.

One is reconciled to God by His death.

That isn't accurate. I need to seek reconciliation before God will grant it to me.

You don't understand the economy of the atonement. According to Paul, when Jesus voluntarily offered his life on the cross, this pleased God and mollified his wrath. For this reason, God raised Jesus from the dead and granted Jesus all authority to advocate for his followers. No one is going to be saved unless Jesus says so.

 

[Roger316]

That opposes Christ !

No, it doesn't.