Is Salvation instantaneous and permanent?

[faithhopecharity101]

While we are wallowing in sin, it seems some sin cannot be forgiven. The sin of Adam and Eve have never been forgiven and we all are doomed to hell if we don't find salvation babies included. That is some serious sin.

all sin can be forgiven in this life!

Jn 20:23

Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them...

Interesting...


….“Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit,
he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.” John‬ ‭3:5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

When your Mom went into labor to birth you? There was water!

Physical birth involves the mother breaking water.

Breaking water? = First birth.

The ancients watched birth taking place, unlike today where the mother is often taken first to a hospital where the birth is not seen.

unfortunately the verse says: quote

"water and the Spirit"

Jn 3:5

 

[faithhopecharity101]

False. 1 Peter 1:23 - having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever.

Mark 16:16 - He who believes and is baptized will be saved (general cases without making a qualification for the unusual case of someone who believes but is not baptized) but he who does not believe will be condemned. The omission of baptized with "does not believe" shows that Jesus does not make baptism absolutely necessary for salvation. Condemnation rests on unbelief and not on a lack of baptism. *NOWHERE does the Bible say, "baptized or condemned."

If water baptism was absolutely required for salvation, then we would expect Jesus to mention it in the following verses. (3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26) Yet what is the ONE requirement that Jesus mentions NINE different times in each of these complete statements *BELIEVES. *What happened to baptism *Hermeneutics. If he who believes shall be saved, then he who believes and is baptized shall be saved as well.

John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

In regard to the word "water" in John 3:5, there are those who would argue that the natural sense of the passage parallels water with being born out of a mother’s womb and with flesh based on the answer of Nicodemus to Jesus. Simply stated in that case, two births are necessary. The first is a physical, literal, "flesh" birth accompanied by amniotic "water" and the second is Spirit.

We also see in scripture that Jesus mentions "living water" in John 4:10, 14; 7:37-39 and in John 7:38-39, we read - "He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water. But this He spoke concerning the Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the source of living water and spiritual cleansing.

Now if "water" is defined as baptism, then we could just as justifiably say, "Out of his heart will flow rivers of living baptism" in John 7:38. If this sounds ridiculous, it is no more so than the idea that water baptism is the source or the means of becoming born again. So, to automatically read "baptism" into John 3:5 simply because it mentions "water" is unwarranted.

Furthermore, we also see in scripture that "water" is used in the Bible as an emblem of the word of God, and in such uses it is associated with cleansing or washing. (John 15:3; Ephesians 5:26) When we are born again, the Holy Spirit begets new life, and we are said to become "partakers of the divine nature." (2 Peter 1:4) The new birth is brought to pass through "incorruptible seed, by the word of God, which lives and abides forever" (I Peter 1:23) and the Holy Spirit accomplishes the washing of regeneration. (Titus 3:5)

In regard to Titus 3:5, the washing of regeneration is not accomplished by water baptism. The word "washing" in the Strong's Greek Concordance with Vine's Number 3067 - (Loutron) "a bath, a laver" is used *metaphorically of the Word of God, as the instrument of spiritual cleansing* (Ephesians 5:26; and Titus 3:5), of the "washing of regeneration." So, washing refers to spiritual washing or purification of the soul, accomplished by the word of God through the Holy Spirit at the moment of salvation.

eph 4:5 one baptism

Baptism implies water:

ez 36:25
Acts 8:36-38
acts 10:47
Jn 3:5
acts 22:16
1 cor 6:11
titus 3:5
heb 10:22

administered by the apostolic church:

mt 28:19
2 pet 1:11
2 cor 8:19

the only baptism is water baptism, the initial sacrament of the christian faith. water baptism includes, the supernatural gifts of faith, hope, & charity, sanctifying grace, and the life of the Spirit!




why all this water and washing?

((water))

John the baptist did not prepare the way by preaching faith alone!

Ex 36:25:27
Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

Jn 3:5
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
(we must be born into the family of God)

((washing))

acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
(saul becomes Paul a christian in baptism)


titus 3:5
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

1 Corinthians 6:11
And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Hebrews 10:22
Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

Revelation 1:5
And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

Baptism is the grace of justification:

Ex 36:25:27
baptism, new heart capable of love, and the Spirit!

Jn 3:5 baptism water & the Spirit!

Rom 5:5 Holy Spirit received in baptism cast His love abroad in our hearts so we can fulfill God's will!

1 cor 12:13 Baptism, filled with the Spirit!


Ez36:25-27

25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Jn 3:5
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

titus 3:5
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Rom 5:5
And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

1 cor 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.






“My Witnesses” (Acts 1:8)

The sacrament of Baptism is required for salvation!

St. Ambrose
St. Augustine
St. Justin Martyr
Tertullian
Pope St. Leo I
Origen
St. Cyril of Jerusalem
Fulgentius of Ruspe
Hippolytus
St. Irenaeus

Matt 16:18-19 binding on all Christians!

“Without the Sacrament of Baptism, no one is ever justified, If anyone says that Baptism is optional, that is, not necessary for salvation: let him be anathema." Council of Trent

btw do you know what happened to carm.forum?

thks

 

[faithhopecharity101]

The Lord Jesus, believed that salvation is a one time deal. There are many examples in the Bible, where the Lord Jesus saved people and declared them to be saved immedietley.

In Luke 23:43 ("Truly I say to you today, you will be with me in paradise") this is a profound demonstration of salvation by grace alone through faith alone. It highlights the immediate, personal, and secure nature of paradise upon death, showcasing that salvation is a gift from Christ, not earned or maintained by human merit.

The transformation from mocking (earlier) to believing (Luke 23:40-42) shows the sovereign work of the Holy Spirit opening the thief's eyes, illustrating that faith itself is a gift.
Jesus’ words ("Assuredly I say") provide a firm guarantee, offering assurance to believers that salvation is fully and finally secured by Christ's work, not held in uncertainty.

Hebrews 10:10, 14 – “And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all... For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified”.

Romans 8:1 – “There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”.
John 10:28-29 – “I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand”.

Ephesians 2:8-9 – “For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast”.

Romans 8:30 – “And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified”.

Titus 3:5 – “He saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit”

No "Re-Salvation": Since Christ's sacrifice was "once for all," there is no need or possibility for salvation to be repeated. While justification is a one-time event (I am saved), sanctification is a progressive process (I am being saved) that follows from the new life given in justification.
Believers have secure assurance, not based on their own faithfulness, but on the unwavering promise of God.

the problem is that salvation is a multiple part process not a one time event.

each part is different and not interchangeable.

any part in the process can be labeled as salvation but this does not imply that we possess eternal salvation.

we now have union with God in the new covenant thru Christ, by His merits, grace, life & Spirit, not eternal salvation.

some parts exclude works and are the free gift of God, and others require our participation thru works.

misunderstanding of these parts and the scriptures that refer to them
are the cos of much confusion

Grace: the eternal life of God in Christ. Jn 1:16-17 Jn 10:10 Jn 14:6
2 cor 4:7 eph 2:1 2 pet 1:4
2 Corinthians 12:9

we must grow in grace by good works:
2 peter 3:18
can lose grace by sin: mt 25:30
Eph 5:6 gal 5:1 1 tim 5:12
1 cor 6:9-10 & 15-20 gal 5:19-21
eph 5:2-6

union: With God and His saints in the new covenant thru Christ, by His merits, grace, life & Spirit, in a state of grace. ps 23:4 Jn 15:1-6 eph 5:23

Eternal salvation: In the next life. mk 10:30 The blessed in heaven.

The state of those who endured to the end (mt 10:22) and die in the grace and union of Christ.

Redemption: (in the large sense)
Christ accomplished the redemption / atonement apart from us, by His life death, & resurrection

Justification: Rom 3:24
Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Our acceptance / belief in Christ and His redemption.
the initial grace of justification is applied to our souls in baptism. mk 16:16 Jn 3:5 titus 3:5

sanctification: Life of sanctifying grace in the deeds of righteousness, living works, the practice of the virtues, the gifts and fruits of the spirit. Lk 1:75 heb 10:35
mt 25:46 gal 6:7:8 1 thes 4:3
phil 1:29 heb 12:4

perseverance:

works are required for perseverance!
the deeds of the Spirit!

Lk 1:75 In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.

Gal 6:7-8

7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

Jn 3:16 Perpetual faith
mt 3:8 2 cor 7:10 fruits of repentance
Jn 15:4 abide in Christ & bear fruit
Lk 3:9 bear fruit
Lk 1:75 acts 10:35 deeds of righteousness
phil 1:11 fruits of righteousness
mt 26:41 watch and pray
mk 24:48 watch and pray
Lk 21:36 Watch and pray, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
mt 7:7 ask and you shall receive
Lk 9:23 phil 1:29 daily, deny thyself, take up thy cross and follow me.
mt 7:14 narrow road that leads to life

death:

mk 13:13
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

mt 10:22
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

mt 24:13
But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

heb 3:6
But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.

heb 3:14
For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

rev 2:10
Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

Those who endured to the end and die in the grace and union of Christ enter into eternal salvation.

Purification: pugation from the effects of sin committed after justification.

no unclean thing enter the heavenly realms of glory

Glorification: crowned by God.

Suffering with Christ is required for glorification with Christ!

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Full eternal Salvation with God forever in heavenly glory!
(the beatific vision)

Titus 2:14
Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, (redemption) and purify unto himself a peculiar people,h (justification / baptism notice purify / wash) Jn 3:5 zealous of good works. (Sanctification) Jn 15:4 abide in Christ Matt 3:16 believes (present tense) Matt 24:13 endures to the end Shall be saved.
(Salvation)

thks

 

[faithhopecharity101]

So how do babies accomplish faithful confession?

infants are baptized on the promise of God acts 2:38-39 this promise (ez 36:25-27) is to your children also on the faith and promise of their parents to educate them in the faith of Jesus Christ and to prove this in the sacrament of confirmation

thks

 

[faithhopecharity101]

So how do babies accomplish faithful confession?

infants are baptized on the faith and promise of

Where did you hop off to?
Come back here.

Deal with this.

John the Baptist said the following!

"I baptize you with water, but he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.” Mark 1:8​

There is to be only one baptism in the Church age!
You keep pushing on us TWO!

One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who is above all, ​

and through all, and in you all.​

​

Ephesians 4:5-6

Beware of religious tradition that acts as an anti-truth!

I'll be here! no worries

in the new covenant there is only one sacrament of baptism by water and the Spirit Jn 3:5 not the Spirit alone or faith alone

thks

btw who administers this "Spirit" baptism?


until the age of rogue fundamentalist preachers beginning in the 1800's there was born again baptism experience


“My Witnesses” (Acts 1:8)

The sacrament of Baptism is required for salvation!

St. Ambrose
St. Augustine
St. Justin Martyr
Tertullian
Pope St. Leo I
Origen
St. Cyril of Jerusalem
Fulgentius of Ruspe
Hippolytus
St. Irenaeus

Matt 16:18-19 binding on all Christians!

“Without the Sacrament of Baptism, no one is ever justified, If anyone says that Baptism is optional, that is, not necessary for salvation: let him be anathema." Council of Trent

Dogma: Divine Faith!


170. The Sacraments of the New Covenant are necessary for the salvation of mankind.
174. Baptism is a true Sacrament instituted by Jesus Christ.
175. The materia remota of the Sacrament of Baptism is true and natural water.
176. Baptism confers the grace of justification.
177. Baptism effects the remission of all punishments of sin, both the eternal and the temporal.
179. Baptism by water (Baptismus fluminis) is, since the promulgation of the Gospel, necessary
for all men without exception, for salvation. Mk 16:16

 

[faithhopecharity101]

The Lord Jesus, believed that salvation is a one time deal. There are many examples in the Bible, where the Lord Jesus saved people and declared them to be saved immedietley.

In Luke 23:43 ("Truly I say to you today, you will be with me in paradise") this is a profound demonstration of salvation by grace alone through faith alone. It highlights the immediate, personal, and secure nature of paradise upon death, showcasing that salvation is a gift from Christ, not earned or maintained by human merit.

The transformation from mocking (earlier) to believing (Luke 23:40-42) shows the sovereign work of the Holy Spirit opening the thief's eyes, illustrating that faith itself is a gift.
Jesus’ words ("Assuredly I say") provide a firm guarantee, offering assurance to believers that salvation is fully and finally secured by Christ's work, not held in uncertainty.

Hebrews 10:10, 14 – “And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all... For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified”.

Romans 8:1 – “There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”.
John 10:28-29 – “I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand”.

Ephesians 2:8-9 – “For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast”.

Romans 8:30 – “And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified”.

Titus 3:5 – “He saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit”

No "Re-Salvation": Since Christ's sacrifice was "once for all," there is no need or possibility for salvation to be repeated. While justification is a one-time event (I am saved), sanctification is a progressive process (I am being saved) that follows from the new life given in justification.
Believers have secure assurance, not based on their own faithfulness, but on the unwavering promise of God.

we don't have salvation in this life only a state of grace in Christ!

thks

 

[faithhopecharity101]

Where did you hop off to?
Come back here.

Deal with this.

John the Baptist said the following!

"I baptize you with water, but he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.” Mark 1:8​

There is to be only one baptism in the Church age!
You keep pushing on us TWO!

One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who is above all, ​

and through all, and in you all.​

​

Ephesians 4:5-6

Beware of religious tradition that acts as an anti-truth!

it was the albigensian's and cathars who invented spirit baptism cos they believed in two god's or duelism

with the god of matter being evil the rejected water baptism and marriage and meat eating

thks

 

[mailmandan]

eph 4:5 one baptism

Baptism implies water:

ez 36:25
Acts 8:36-38
acts 10:47
Jn 3:5
acts 22:16
1 cor 6:11
titus 3:5
heb 10:22

administered by the apostolic church:

mt 28:19
2 pet 1:11
2 cor 8:19

the only baptism is water baptism, the initial sacrament of the christian faith. water baptism includes, the supernatural gifts of faith, hope, & charity, sanctifying grace, and the life of the Spirit!

why all this water and washing?

((water))

John the baptist did not prepare the way by preaching faith alone!

Ex 36:25:27
Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

Jn 3:5
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
(we must be born into the family of God)

((washing))

acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
(saul becomes Paul a christian in baptism)

titus 3:5
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

1 Corinthians 6:11
And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Hebrews 10:22
Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

Revelation 1:5
And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

Baptism is the grace of justification:

Ex 36:25:27
baptism, new heart capable of love, and the Spirit!

Jn 3:5 baptism water & the Spirit!

Rom 5:5 Holy Spirit received in baptism cast His love abroad in our hearts so we can fulfill God's will!

1 cor 12:13 Baptism, filled with the Spirit!

Ez36:25-27

25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Jn 3:5
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

titus 3:5
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Rom 5:5
And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

1 cor 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

“My Witnesses” (Acts 1:8)

The sacrament of Baptism is required for salvation!

St. Ambrose
St. Augustine
St. Justin Martyr
Tertullian
Pope St. Leo I
Origen
St. Cyril of Jerusalem
Fulgentius of Ruspe
Hippolytus
St. Irenaeus

Matt 16:18-19 binding on all Christians!

“Without the Sacrament of Baptism, no one is ever justified, If anyone says that Baptism is optional, that is, not necessary for salvation: let him be anathema." Council of Trent

btw do you know what happened to carm.forum?

thks

Enough with the carpet bombing, and let's discuss these verses one at a time. I will start with Ephesians 4:5.

There is only one baptism that saves and places us into the body of Christ and that is Spirit baptism, not water baptism.

Ephesians 4:5 - ..one Lord, one faith, one baptism.

1 Corinthians 12:13 - For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body--whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free--and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. *Also see John 4:10,14; 7:37-39 for the word drink(s) and see the connection with the Holy Spirit.

 

[faithhopecharity101]

Enough with the carpet bombing, and let's discuss these verses one at a time. I will start with Ephesians 4:5.

There is only one baptism that saves and places us into the body of Christ and that is Spirit baptism, not water baptism.

Ephesians 4:5 - ..one Lord, one faith, one baptism.

1 Corinthians 12:13 - For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body--whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free--and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. *Also see John 4:10,14; 7:37-39 for the word drink(s) and see the connection with the Holy Spirit.

ok no problem

it was the albigensian's and cathars who invented spirit baptism cos they believed in two god's or duelism

with the god of matter being evil they rejected water baptism

eph 4:4-5

4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism

when did we receive the spirit?

when were baptized!

1 cor 12:13

For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
thks

 

[McShawn]

I’m guessing the dunk tank at the county fair doesn’t count.

 

[Genez]

all sin can be forgiven in this life!

Jn 20:23

Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them...


unfortunately the verse says: quote

"water and the Spirit"

Jn 3:5
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

not born of water born again of the spirit alone or faith alone!

and many more
ex 36:25-27
Mk 16:16
mt 28:19
acts 2:38-39
acts 8:36-38
acts 22:16
1 cor 12:13
1 pet 3:20-21

thks

OK...

Argue.
It is become compulsive with you to do so.

 

[Genez]

So the eleven disciples went to Galilee to the mountain Jesus had designated. 17 When they saw him, they worshiped him, but some doubted. 18 Then Jesus came up and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And remember, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”

Is your point Jesus told is disciple to go into the world an impregnate women so they can "baptise" their children via birth? As a result of the first Gospel sermon, Peter did NOT say only believe because you were baptised at birth. If that was the message of the Holy Spirit, that is what he would have said under your dogma. What the Holy Spirit speaking through Peter and the other Apostles said you MUST repent and be baptised "in water" for the forgiveness of your sins.

When the Ethiopian eunuch was taught the gospel of Jesus, his immediate request was to be baptised (which by your definition of being born of water, he already had been.) Philip said to him, "If you believe you can be baptised." Thus born again via baptismal water.

In Romans 6:1-11, Paul presents baptism as a, if not the, definitive, spiritual, and existential union with Christ’s death and resurrection, initiating a new life that renders the believer dead to sin and alive to God. It is portrayed as a profound, transformative reality, not merely a symbolic gesture. Union with Christ (vv. 3-4): Baptism is described as being "baptized into Christ Jesus" and "baptized into his death". This indicates a mystical, actual union where the believer shares in the reality of Christ's death and resurrection. Death to Sin and New Life: By being buried with Christ in baptism, the old self is "crucified" or "dead" to sin. Just as Christ was raised, the baptized person is empowered to walk in "newness of life". Eschatological Reality: This new life is not merely future but an present experience of a future reality—believers are already living in the resurrection power.Ethical Application: Because of this union, Paul argues that Christians must count themselves dead to sin and no longer let it reign, using baptism as the foundation for Christian holiness. If water baptism is from birth, then none of these people needed water baptism.

That fat monk Luter, poisoned the well on doing "anything" even praying for salvation. Massive numbers of people who do not even know who he was spout his theology as God's gospel. Salvation is when you claim it is in your mind. Any act in real life associated with your Christianity invalidates your Christian conversion which is forever and only a mind game. Obedience to God is a sign you do not understand Luter's plan of salvation which you so eloquently conveyed. Obedience is works. Prayer is works essentially church attendance is works.

Go ahead, and form your illegal posse.
Get a rope.
And find a nice tree with a view....

 

[faithhopecharity101]

I’m guessing the dunk tank at the county fair doesn’t count.

no a sacrament requires three things to bring us to the life of grace in Christ

intention:
matter:
form:

intention: the purpose

matter: in baptism is plain water

form: the words of Jesus from

mt 28:19
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:



how does one know that a wine glass is not a block of wood?

or that a block of wood is not a wine glass?

intention
matter
form

as you can see even a wine glass is not a champagne glass even though they both have the same intention, and matter, but a different form!

Amen?

 

[Genez]

unfortunately the verse says: quote

"water and the Spirit"

Jn 3:5

What difference would that make?

You must be born again! = Two different births.

 

[faithhopecharity101]

What difference would that make?

You must be born again! = Two different births.

the new spiritual supernatural birth is by water & AND & the Spirit

who administers the new birth?

thks

 

[Genez]

the new spiritual supernatural birth is by water & AND & the Spirit

who administers the new birth?

thks

Neat trick.... Slick!

You found your hiding place.
The Devil will leave you alone that way.
(Though he may fake trying to hurt you just to keep you clinging to what will make you into a loser)

Honesty kills.
It can also herald in Life.

.

 

[Genez]

all sin can be forgiven in this life!

Jn 20:23

Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them...


unfortunately the verse says: quote

"water and the Spirit"

Jn 3:5
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

not born of water born again of the spirit alone or faith alone!

and many more
ex 36:25-27
Mk 16:16
mt 28:19
acts 2:38-39
acts 8:36-38
acts 22:16
1 cor 12:13
1 pet 3:20-21

thks

You must be born of a mother and God to be saved.

Try looking here:

https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/labor-and-delivery/in-depth/water-breaking/art-20044142

......

 

[Genez]

the new spiritual supernatural birth is by water & AND & the Spirit

who administers the new birth?

thks

"Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit."

John 3:6

Or... if you prefer?


Whatever is born of the flesh is flesh, and whatever is born of the Spirit is spirit.

.​

 

[mailmandan]

ok no problem

it was the albigensian's and cathars who invented spirit baptism cos they believed in two god's or duelism

with the god of matter being evil they rejected water baptism

eph 4:4-5

4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism

when did we receive the spirit?

when were baptized!

1 cor 12:13

For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
thks

1 Corinthians 12:13 is Spirit baptism and not water baptism. In Matthew 3:11, we read - As for me, I baptize you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. Two distinct baptisms. In Acts 10:47, we read - Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have? These Gentiles believed, received the gift of the Holy Spirit and spoke in tongues (spiritual gift that is only for the body of Christ - 1 Corinthians 12:1-11) and were saved before water baptism.

 

[Genez]

ok no problem

it was the albigensian's and cathars who invented spirit baptism cos they believed in two god's or duelism

with the god of matter being evil they rejected water baptism....

They taught a false doctrine.
They distorted the Truth concerning Spirit baptism.

In no way does their error negate the truth about Spirit baptism.