Is Salvation instantaneous and permanent?

[Gideon300]

born again only by water and the Spirit! Jn 3:5

the thief not christian nor was the new covenant in effect. heb 9:16-17

baptism is required unless it is truly not possible, but of becomes possible it cannot be refused!

thks

eph 4:5 one baptism

Baptism implies water:

ez 36:25
Acts 8:36-38
acts 10:47
Jn 3:5
acts 22:16
1 cor 6:11
titus 3:5
heb 10:22

administered by the apostolic church:

mt 28:19
2 pet 1:11
2 cor 8:19

the only baptism is water baptism, the initial sacrament of the christian faith. water baptism includes, the supernatural gifts of faith, hope, & charity, sanctifying grace, and the life of the Spirit!

why all this water and washing?

((water))

John the baptist did not prepare the way by preaching faith alone!

Ex 36:25:27
Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

Jn 3:5
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
(we must be born into the family of God)

((washing))

acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
(saul becomes Paul a christian in baptism)


titus 3:5
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

1 Corinthians 6:11
And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Hebrews 10:22
Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

Revelation 1:5
And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

Baptism is the grace of justification:

Ex 36:25:27
baptism, new heart capable of love, and the Spirit!

Jn 3:5 baptism water & the Spirit!

Rom 5:5 Holy Spirit received in baptism cast His love abroad in our hearts so we can fulfill God's will!

1 cor 12:13 Baptism, filled with the Spirit!


Ez36:25-27

25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Jn 3:5
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

titus 3:5
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Rom 5:5
And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

1 cor 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

“My Witnesses” (Acts 1:8)

The sacrament of Baptism is required for salvation!

St. Ambrose
St. Augustine
St. Justin Martyr
Tertullian
Pope St. Leo I
Origen
St. Cyril of Jerusalem
Fulgentius of Ruspe
Hippolytus
St. Irenaeus

Matt 16:18-19 binding on all Christians!

“Without the Sacrament of Baptism, no one is ever justified, If anyone says that Baptism is optional, that is, not necessary for salvation: let him be anathema." Council of Trent

Dogma: Divine Faith!


170. The Sacraments of the New Covenant are necessary for the salvation of mankind.
174. Baptism is a true Sacrament instituted by Jesus Christ.
175. The materia remota of the Sacrament of Baptism is true and natural water.
176. Baptism confers the grace of justification.
177. Baptism effects the remission of all punishments of sin, both the eternal and the temporal.
179. Baptism by water (Baptismus fluminis) is, since the promulgation of the Gospel, necessary
for all men without exception, for salvation. Mk 16:16


1 Corinthians 6:11
And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Jude 1:1 Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called: ref: ez 36:25


col 2:11-13

11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

The Holy sacrament of Baptism is the basis of the whole Christian life, the initiation to life in the Spirit!
(2 cor 1:22 eph 1:13 2 pet 1:11)

Through Baptism we are freed from all past sin and reborn as sons of God; (acts 22:16) we become members of Christ, are incorporated into the Church!
(1 cor 12:13)

"Baptism is the sacrament of regeneration through water in the word." (Jn 3:5 titus 3:5)

Baptismal regeneration is the grace of justification then we abide in Christ (Jn 15:4) and practice the deeds of righteousness on the narrow road (mt 7:14) and endure to the end! (mt 10:22)


The Early Church Fathers were unanimous in affirming the necessity of baptism:

St. Justin Martyr (2nd century): “As many as are persuaded and believe that what we teach and say is true... are brought by us where there is water, and are regenerated in the same manner in which we were ourselves regenerated.”

St. Augustine: “No one becomes a member of Christ except by baptism.”

All that to prove nothing. The early church fathers were no authority superior to the Bible. Augustine promotes infant "baptism". First, no infant can receive Christ. Second, no infant can be baptised, only sprinkled. Baptise means full immersion. Infants are unable to hold their breath, so no, you can't baptise them.

Believers should be baptised. We baptised a woman recently who has been born again for 20 years. Baptism represents burial. It is a good public confession. But to claim that getting wet brings about the new birth is an insult to the work of the Holy Spirit in regeneration. It is an insult to the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross. And it is and insult to countless believers who die without the opportunity to be baptised.

John 1:12&13 "But to all who did receive Him, to those who believed in His name, He gave the right to become children of God— children born not of blood, nor of the desire or will of man, but born of God.…"

Sacramental theology is false. It adds works to salvation that is in reality by grace. You do not even know what baptism is. It is not only with water. John the Baptist said that the Baptism of the Holy Spirit is superior to water baptism. Getting wet does not put us into Christ, the Holy Spirit does. Water does not immerse us in the Holy Spirit, Lord Jesus does.

 

[faithhopecharity101]

we still have a fallen human nature and are oriented towards sin, but God provides a remedy for sin in this life, suffering!

we have union in Christ & grace not eternal salvation!

1 pet 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;

Matthew 10:38
And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

Matthew 16:24
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Matthew 7:14
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life...

Matthew 16:25
For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

John 12:25
He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Corinthians 12:9
And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

2 Thessalonians 1:5
Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:

Colossians 1:11
Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;

2 Tim 2:3 Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer with Him, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Phil 1:29
For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

2 tim 1:8 Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God;

1 Peter 5:10
But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.

1 pet 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;

James 1:2-8
My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations; Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience. But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing

Hebrews 6:12
That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

Hebrews 10:36
For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.

Hebrews 12:4
Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

Galatians 5:24
And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

1 Peter 2:20
For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God.

Rev 2: 19 I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first.

With faith, hope, & charity and all the virtues, prayer, fasting, alms etc.

in all things abiding in Christ
(Jn 15:1-6) endure unto the end!
(mt 10:22 rev 2:10)

thks

 

[faithhopecharity101]

What difference would that make?

You must be born again! = Two different births.

they question is how are we born again and who administers the new birth?

how: by baptism water and the Spirit

Jn 3:22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.

Jn 1 baptism
Jn 2 baptism
Jn 3 baptism
Jn 4 baptism

thks

 

[faithhopecharity101]

You must be born of a mother and God to be saved.

Try looking here:

https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/labor-and-delivery/in-depth/water-breaking/art-20044142

......

Jn 3:5 still say the new birth is of water and the spirit

thks

new creation: water and the Spirit
gen 1:1-2
gen 8:8
ex 13:21
Joshua 1:1-2
ez 36:25-27
Jn 1:31-32
Jn 3:5

'The Father has set his seal' on Christ (John 6:27) and also seals us in him (cf. 2 Corinthians 1:22; Ephesians 1:23, 4:30). Because this seal indicates the indelible effect of the anointing with the Holy Spirit in the sacrament of Baptism,

Baptism indeed is the seal of eternal life." The faithful Christian who has "kept the seal" until the end, remaining faithful to the demands of his Baptism, will be able to depart this life "marked with the sign of faith," with his baptismal faith, in expectation of the blessed vision of God - the consummation of faith - and in the hope of resurrection.

St. Paul tells the faithful at Ephesus that they have been “sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.” This is in terms of an indelible character imprinted on the soul in the sacraments of baptism and confirmation. It is not as if this invisible mark is simply decorative. Rather, through it, we are enabled to participate in Christ’s mission and in his offices of priest, prophet, and king. Eph 1:13 and cannot be repeated

Sealed by God eph 1:13 sealed by God (ez 36:25-27) in the church (ark of salvation) by baptism just as Noah was sealed by God in the ark of the flood gen 7:16

1 Pet 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark of Noah none were saved, outside the church (the ark of salvation) none are saved!)

Sealed in the ark, sealed in the church the (ark of salvation) by God thru baptism!

 

[faithhopecharity101]

"Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit."

John 3:6

Or... if you prefer?


Whatever is born of the flesh is flesh, and whatever is born of the Spirit is spirit.

.​

water baptism is not flesh

Jn 3:5 water and the Spirit

ex 36:25-27
mk 16:16
mt 28:19
acts 2:38-39
acts 8:36-38
acts 22:16
1 cor 12:13
titus 3:5
1 pet 3;21

baptismal regeneration

thks

 

[faithhopecharity101]

1 Corinthians 12:13 is Spirit baptism and not water baptism. In Matthew 3:11, we read - As for me, I baptize you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. Two distinct baptisms. In Acts 10:47, we read - Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have? These Gentiles believed, received the gift of the Holy Spirit and spoke in tongues (spiritual gift that is only for the body of Christ - 1 Corinthians 12:1-11) and were saved before water baptism.

Jn 3:5 new birth by water and the spirit

not the spirit only

key verse to this understanding is Jn 3:22
After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.

23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.

river water water everywhere!

thks

 

[faithhopecharity101]

You raise a significant issue. Paul listed some sins he implied genuine Christians would not typically commit (in 1CR 6:9-10), saying: “Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived, neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.” Apparently, although a new Christian might commit such sins occasionally, it is inconceivable (because antithetical to NT teaching) that a mature Christian would commit them so typically that the person could be classified as an adulterer, for example.

then why the warning?

we still have free will and falling nature oriented towards sin

thks

 

[faithhopecharity101]

All that to prove nothing. The early church fathers were no authority superior to the Bible. Augustine promotes infant "baptism". First, no infant can receive Christ. Second, no infant can be baptised, only sprinkled. Baptise means full immersion. Infants are unable to hold their breath, so no, you can't baptise them.

Believers should be baptised. We baptised a woman recently who has been born again for 20 years. Baptism represents burial. It is a good public confession. But to claim that getting wet brings about the new birth is an insult to the work of the Holy Spirit in regeneration. It is an insult to the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross. And it is and insult to countless believers who die without the opportunity to be baptised.

John 1:12&13 "But to all who did receive Him, to those who believed in His name, He gave the right to become children of God— children born not of blood, nor of the desire or will of man, but born of God.…"

Sacramental theology is false. It adds works to salvation that is in reality by grace. You do not even know what baptism is. It is not only with water. John the Baptist said that the Baptism of the Holy Spirit is superior to water baptism. Getting wet does not put us into Christ, the Holy Spirit does. Water does not immerse us in the Holy Spirit, Lord Jesus does.

Infant Baptism!

thks

How did John the baptist repent and believe yet He was sanctified!
Lk 1:15 & Lk 1:41-44

Acts 2:38-39 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Promise is to you’re children! Vs 39

This promise made in ez 36
A promise from God is a sacred oath, and a sacred oath is a sacrament!

Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Jn 3:5 born again by water and the spirit.

Acts 16:15 entire household baptized! Does not say adults only or except infants!

Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness.

(It does not say adults only or except infants!)
(Scripture does not say anywhere “do not baptized infants”)

Baptism is the Christian initiation sacrament of the new covenant for all men. Matt 28:19 Jn 1:29 Jn 3:16

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. (It does not say except infants!) (but it does say “all”)!

Lk 1:10-11 all people including infants

Thee faith is required for adult baptism.
Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38

If it’s not possible (as in the case of infants) it’s not required.

But the promise of the parents to raise and educate the child in the faith is required, then the child is confirmed in thee faith at the age of reason.

Repentance is required for adult baptism. Acts 2:38

If there is no personal sin to repent of (as in the case of infants) then it’s not required.

For two thousand years the church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles has always baptized infants!

 

[faithhopecharity101]

All that to prove nothing. The early church fathers were no authority superior to the Bible. Augustine promotes infant "baptism". First, no infant can receive Christ. Second, no infant can be baptised, only sprinkled. Baptise means full immersion. Infants are unable to hold their breath, so no, you can't baptise them.

Believers should be baptised. We baptised a woman recently who has been born again for 20 years. Baptism represents burial. It is a good public confession. But to claim that getting wet brings about the new birth is an insult to the work of the Holy Spirit in regeneration. It is an insult to the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross. And it is and insult to countless believers who die without the opportunity to be baptised.

John 1:12&13 "But to all who did receive Him, to those who believed in His name, He gave the right to become children of God— children born not of blood, nor of the desire or will of man, but born of God.…"

Sacramental theology is false. It adds works to salvation that is in reality by grace. You do not even know what baptism is. It is not only with water. John the Baptist said that the Baptism of the Holy Spirit is superior to water baptism. Getting wet does not put us into Christ, the Holy Spirit does. Water does not immerse us in the Holy Spirit, Lord Jesus does.

Sprinkle: refers to baptismal regeneration!
Ez 36:25
Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

Heb 10:22
Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

thks

 

[faithhopecharity101]

All that to prove nothing. The early church fathers were no authority superior to the Bible. Augustine promotes infant "baptism". First, no infant can receive Christ. Second, no infant can be baptised, only sprinkled. Baptise means full immersion. Infants are unable to hold their breath, so no, you can't baptise them.

Believers should be baptised. We baptised a woman recently who has been born again for 20 years. Baptism represents burial. It is a good public confession. But to claim that getting wet brings about the new birth is an insult to the work of the Holy Spirit in regeneration. It is an insult to the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross. And it is and insult to countless believers who die without the opportunity to be baptised.

John 1:12&13 "But to all who did receive Him, to those who believed in His name, He gave the right to become children of God— children born not of blood, nor of the desire or will of man, but born of God.…"

Sacramental theology is false. It adds works to salvation that is in reality by grace. You do not even know what baptism is. It is not only with water. John the Baptist said that the Baptism of the Holy Spirit is superior to water baptism. Getting wet does not put us into Christ, the Holy Spirit does. Water does not immerse us in the Holy Spirit, Lord Jesus does.

there is zero possibility of a new testament canon apart from the teaching authority of Christ in union with His apostolic church!

same authority as Christ!

Jn 20:21

thks

 

[faithhopecharity101]

All that to prove nothing. The early church fathers were no authority superior to the Bible. Augustine promotes infant "baptism". First, no infant can receive Christ. Second, no infant can be baptised, only sprinkled. Baptise means full immersion. Infants are unable to hold their breath, so no, you can't baptise them.

Believers should be baptised. We baptised a woman recently who has been born again for 20 years. Baptism represents burial. It is a good public confession. But to claim that getting wet brings about the new birth is an insult to the work of the Holy Spirit in regeneration. It is an insult to the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross. And it is and insult to countless believers who die without the opportunity to be baptised.

John 1:12&13 "But to all who did receive Him, to those who believed in His name, He gave the right to become children of God— children born not of blood, nor of the desire or will of man, but born of God.…"

Sacramental theology is false. It adds works to salvation that is in reality by grace. You do not even know what baptism is. It is not only with water. John the Baptist said that the Baptism of the Holy Spirit is superior to water baptism. Getting wet does not put us into Christ, the Holy Spirit does. Water does not immerse us in the Holy Spirit, Lord Jesus does.

none are born again without baptism water and the Spirit Jn 3:22

until the age of rogue fundamentalist preachers beginning in the 1800's there was nothing only water baptism

you cannot chose to enter the new covenant Jn 3:5

we be born into the family of God

accepting Christ does not make a child of God but only makes it possible Jn 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

in baptism

administered by the apostolic church! 2 pet 1:11

2 Corinthians 8:19
And not that only, but who was also chosen of the churches to travel with us with this grace, which is administered by us to the glory of the same Lord, and declaration of your ready mind:

thks

 

[faithhopecharity101]

All that to prove nothing. The early church fathers were no authority superior to the Bible. Augustine promotes infant "baptism". First, no infant can receive Christ. Second, no infant can be baptised, only sprinkled. Baptise means full immersion. Infants are unable to hold their breath, so no, you can't baptise them.

Believers should be baptised. We baptised a woman recently who has been born again for 20 years. Baptism represents burial. It is a good public confession. But to claim that getting wet brings about the new birth is an insult to the work of the Holy Spirit in regeneration. It is an insult to the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross. And it is and insult to countless believers who die without the opportunity to be baptised.

John 1:12&13 "But to all who did receive Him, to those who believed in His name, He gave the right to become children of God— children born not of blood, nor of the desire or will of man, but born of God.…"

Sacramental theology is false. It adds works to salvation that is in reality by grace. You do not even know what baptism is. It is not only with water. John the Baptist said that the Baptism of the Holy Spirit is superior to water baptism. Getting wet does not put us into Christ, the Holy Spirit does. Water does not immerse us in the Holy Spirit, Lord Jesus does.

works are required for salvation!

the initial grace of justification is a free gift of God after this we must participate in perseverance unto eternal salvation

mt. 7:14
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

mt 26:41
Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.

mt 7:7
Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:

heb 12:4
Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

Jn 3:16 Perpetual faith
mt 3:8 2 cor 7:10 fruits of repentance
Jn 15:4 abide in Christ & bear fruit
Lk 3:9 bear fruit
Lk 1:75 acts 10:35 deeds of righteousness
phil 1:11 fruits of righteousness
mt 26:41 watch and pray
mk 24:48 watch and pray
Lk 21:36 Watch and pray, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
mt 7:7 ask and you shall receive
Lk 9:23 phil 1:29 daily, deny thyself, take up thy cross and follow me.
mt 7:14 narrow road that leads to life
mt 10:22 mk 13:13 mt 24:13 endure to the end in patient suffering
rev 2:10 he who overcomes I shall give the crown of life!



((endure to the end shall be saved))

mk 13:13
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

mt 10:22
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

mt 24:13
But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

heb 3:6
But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.

heb 3:14
For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

rev 2:10
Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.




(( Union ))

Union with God and His angels & saints by Christ in grace and the Spirit!

Union with Christ by His grace & His merits & His power with life in the Spirit!
(we cannot do it alone of ourselves)


Jn 1:16
And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.
(grace now not eternal salvation)




(( will never inherit the kingdom of God or attain to eternal salvation ))

mt 25:30
Eph 5:2-6
gal 5:1
gal 5:19-21
gal 6:7-8
1 cor 6:9-10 & 15-20
1 tim 5:12
rev 21:8
rev 21:27

rom 8:1
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

(what if they walk after the flesh?)


Gal 6:7-8

7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

thks

 

[faithhopecharity101]

All that to prove nothing. The early church fathers were no authority superior to the Bible. Augustine promotes infant "baptism". First, no infant can receive Christ. Second, no infant can be baptised, only sprinkled. Baptise means full immersion. Infants are unable to hold their breath, so no, you can't baptise them.

Believers should be baptised. We baptised a woman recently who has been born again for 20 years. Baptism represents burial. It is a good public confession. But to claim that getting wet brings about the new birth is an insult to the work of the Holy Spirit in regeneration. It is an insult to the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross. And it is and insult to countless believers who die without the opportunity to be baptised.

John 1:12&13 "But to all who did receive Him, to those who believed in His name, He gave the right to become children of God— children born not of blood, nor of the desire or will of man, but born of God.…"

Sacramental theology is false. It adds works to salvation that is in reality by grace. You do not even know what baptism is. It is not only with water. John the Baptist said that the Baptism of the Holy Spirit is superior to water baptism. Getting wet does not put us into Christ, the Holy Spirit does. Water does not immerse us in the Holy Spirit, Lord Jesus does.

Promise of God:
Sacred oath:
A promise or sacred oath made by God is called a sacrament:
A sacrament is also the fruit of a sacrifice, grace or the merits of Christ are fruit of His sacrifice on the cross!

Heb 8:8 better sacraments
Lk 1:72
Acts 2:39 referring to ez 36:25-27
Acts 1:4
Acts 2:33
Acts 13:23
Acts 13:32
Acts 26:6
Acts 26:7
Rom 1:2
2 Tim 1:1-2
2 pet 1:4
1 Jn 2:25 and many more!



Sacraments instituted by Christ applies His grace for the salvation of our souls!

Sacraments are the fruits (graces) of the merits of the passion and death of Christ!


It’s not a do it yourself religion!
It’s not a bible study!

It’s a covenant!

Not by “faith alone”
“Faith alone” aint biblical!

You may think “Accept Jesus Christ as you personal Lord and savior” is biblical but there is no such verse in your bible!

Faith and the sacraments in the church founded by the authority Christ on Peter and the apostles is biblical! Matt 16:18-19 Jn 20:21 eph 2:20

Sacramental life of the Christian church: I come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly. Jn 10:10 Jn 1:16-17

Baptism: (initiation into the covenant)
Mk 16:16 Jn 3:5 acts 2:38-39 8:36
1 Corinthians 12:13 2 pet 1:11
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

The Eucharist: (holy communion)
Mt 26:26-39 Jn 6:51-58 1 Cor 11:23-25

Confession of sins:
Jn 20:23 / 1 Jn 1:9 / 2 cor 5:18

Confirmation
Lk 22:32 acts 8:14-17
acts 14:22

Marriage:
Matt 19:4-6

Holy orders: (priesthood)
Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru His priesthood in Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 10:1-8 Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13
Jn 20:21-22 acts 1:17 acts 6:4 acts 8:26
2 Cor 5:18 1 Tim 4:14 Eph 2:20

Extreme unction: (anointing with oil)
1 Tim 4:14 James 5:14

The ark of salvation: one, holy, catholic, (universal) and apostolic church founded by Jesus Christ on Peter and the apostles! 1 pet 3:20-21

fundamentalist traditions are not biblical

thks

 

[memberofthebride]

Question is, if it isn't instant and permanent, then what kind of salvation is it?

If it is eternal salvation, it has to be instant and permanent, because we are flawed beings, who get eternally saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ.

If it were a long process of development, that would not be a free gift of eternal life.

If salvation wasn't permanent, and it's not meant to be thru works to get it.. how do you get it back? Works?

Comes down to the flawed nature of human beings and the grace of God.

question is when is the gift given?
and what is the gift? Eternal life
the Spirit dwelling in us is the Down payment on the gift of eternal life
we must endure until the end
We must bring forth fruit
We must not return to this evil world
Our change from corruptible (flesh) to incorruptible (spirit) is at the first resurrection.

 

[Genez]

they question is how are we born again and who administers the new birth?

how: by baptism water and the Spirit

Jn 3:22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.

Jn 1 baptism
Jn 2 baptism
Jn 3 baptism
Jn 4 baptism

thks

That was not done in the church age!
Spiritual baptism did not begin until Pentecost took place.

 

[Genez]

Jn 3:5 still say the new birth is of water and the spirit

thks

new creation: water and the Spirit
gen 1:1-2
gen 8:8
ex 13:21
Joshua 1:1-2
ez 36:25-27
Jn 1:31-32
Jn 3:5

'The Father has set his seal' on Christ (John 6:27) and also seals us in him (cf. 2 Corinthians 1:22; Ephesians 1:23, 4:30). Because this seal indicates the indelible effect of the anointing with the Holy Spirit in the sacrament of Baptism,

Baptism indeed is the seal of eternal life." The faithful Christian who has "kept the seal" until the end, remaining faithful to the demands of his Baptism, will be able to depart this life "marked with the sign of faith," with his baptismal faith, in expectation of the blessed vision of God - the consummation of faith - and in the hope of resurrection.

St. Paul tells the faithful at Ephesus that they have been “sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.” This is in terms of an indelible character imprinted on the soul in the sacraments of baptism and confirmation. It is not as if this invisible mark is simply decorative. Rather, through it, we are enabled to participate in Christ’s mission and in his offices of priest, prophet, and king. Eph 1:13 and cannot be repeated

Sealed by God eph 1:13 sealed by God (ez 36:25-27) in the church (ark of salvation) by baptism just as Noah was sealed by God in the ark of the flood gen 7:16

1 Pet 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark of Noah none were saved, outside the church (the ark of salvation) none are saved!)

Sealed in the ark, sealed in the church the (ark of salvation) by God thru baptism!

You keep missing the point.

 

[Genez]

water baptism is not flesh

Jn 3:5 water and the Spirit

ex 36:25-27
mk 16:16
mt 28:19
acts 2:38-39
acts 8:36-38
acts 22:16
1 cor 12:13
titus 3:5
1 pet 3;21

baptismal regeneration

thks

When you were about to be born physically?

Your mother did what?

BROKE WATER.

First birth comes by "water."

 

[faithhopecharity101]

All that to prove nothing. The early church fathers were no authority superior to the Bible. Augustine promotes infant "baptism". First, no infant can receive Christ. Second, no infant can be baptised, only sprinkled. Baptise means full immersion. Infants are unable to hold their breath, so no, you can't baptise them.

Believers should be baptised. We baptised a woman recently who has been born again for 20 years. Baptism represents burial. It is a good public confession. But to claim that getting wet brings about the new birth is an insult to the work of the Holy Spirit in regeneration. It is an insult to the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross. And it is and insult to countless believers who die without the opportunity to be baptised.

John 1:12&13 "But to all who did receive Him, to those who believed in His name, He gave the right to become children of God— children born not of blood, nor of the desire or will of man, but born of God.…"

Sacramental theology is false. It adds works to salvation that is in reality by grace. You do not even know what baptism is. It is not only with water. John the Baptist said that the Baptism of the Holy Spirit is superior to water baptism. Getting wet does not put us into Christ, the Holy Spirit does. Water does not immerse us in the Holy Spirit, Lord Jesus does.

1 Jn 5:8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

eph 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism

thks

 

[Genez]

1 Jn 5:8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

eph 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism

thks

Water = Water of the Word!

Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her,
that He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word, that He
might present her to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such
thing, but that she should be holy and without blemish.


Ephesians 5:25-27

 

[faithhopecharity101]

When you were about to be born physically?

Your mother did what?

BROKE WATER.

First birth comes by "water."

not interested in natural birth only the new birth that the s administered by the faith community