Are you envious?
I'm not envious, If someones touching or hugging someone, it doesn't mean I've never been hugged or touched.
Maybe it's yearning, but it's not envy. Well not for me.
Is "touch starvation" a real thing?
- Thread starter Lovette
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I'm not envious, If someones touching or hugging someone, it doesn't mean I've never been hugged or touched.
Maybe it's yearning, but it's not envy. Well not for me.
Neither am I envious, I've concluded, that this is the zeitgeist of this era we're living in, the spirit of Laodecia, materially rich yet spiritually poor. This yearning, in particular, is more like a grief, a loss of human connection.
You may be right. You may be wrong. But what is disturbing in this entire thread is how intense you are about being right.
When people disagree with you, you seem to regard it as a personal attack. Then you come back at them with all guns blazing.
If you don't fix that soon it's going to wreck a lot of relationships for you.
I was single for 35 years and I can remember having talks with God about my loneliness. Why can't I find someone? I raised my daughter by myself so there was physical touch with her, hugs, laughter, tears to comfort you know Mom touches for my child.
I was so happy to meet Tourist and the first day we met I had thrown the Sunday paper in the car as it was in the driveway as I was leaving Clearwater to drive over to Apopka area to meet him and we had time to read the paper together having just met and we were sitting there quiet and reading and it was not uncomfortable but very comforting just to be there reading together I just knew we would work out as a couple and 11 years later we still enjoy each other's company.
Just to sleep in the same bed is comforting and I thank God for Tourist all the time it is nice to have someone to be able to reach out and touch.
I was so happy to meet Tourist and the first day we met I had thrown the Sunday paper in the car as it was in the driveway as I was leaving Clearwater to drive over to Apopka area to meet him and we had time to read the paper together having just met and we were sitting there quiet and reading and it was not uncomfortable but very comforting just to be there reading together I just knew we would work out as a couple and 11 years later we still enjoy each other's company.
Just to sleep in the same bed is comforting and I thank God for Tourist all the time it is nice to have someone to be able to reach out and touch.
Touch deprivation is a real thing.
Babies that go without personal touch die.
It's a simple fact of life.
Those who survived such experiments of touch deprivation had severe psychological problems.
Even as adolescents and young adults human touch is necessary....it doesn't mean that it's sexual...it can be simple hugs, hand caress, shoulders and etc.
But again, going without is detrimental to your mental health....even for the autistic ones who can't stand the feeling of their own clothes.
Social media pretends to take the place of real relationships....but it's not a sufficient replacement. It causes more issues and problems for actually obtaining physical human touch through interpersonal relationships due to the huge increase in self absorbed behaviors.
Babies that go without personal touch die.
It's a simple fact of life.
Those who survived such experiments of touch deprivation had severe psychological problems.
Even as adolescents and young adults human touch is necessary....it doesn't mean that it's sexual...it can be simple hugs, hand caress, shoulders and etc.
But again, going without is detrimental to your mental health....even for the autistic ones who can't stand the feeling of their own clothes.
Social media pretends to take the place of real relationships....but it's not a sufficient replacement. It causes more issues and problems for actually obtaining physical human touch through interpersonal relationships due to the huge increase in self absorbed behaviors.
Lot of people need comfort, but yearning is not really like grief, though sure it can be part of it.
Jesus sends us a comforter via Holy Spirit, which is very gentle touch, but you need to be open to receive.
I'm not really getting the spirit of Loadecia zeitgeist thing. Some people interpret the hot/cold lukewarm thing as applying today and that's your view, but I don't think is what is meant by touch deprivation. I don't see the connection with what Jesus chastised that church for and people just needing/wanting comfort.
Jesus sends us a comforter via Holy Spirit, which is very gentle touch, but you need to be open to receive.
I'm not really getting the spirit of Loadecia zeitgeist thing. Some people interpret the hot/cold lukewarm thing as applying today and that's your view, but I don't think is what is meant by touch deprivation. I don't see the connection with what Jesus chastised that church for and people just needing/wanting comfort.
Living a comfortable life is not a sin it's what we all would like...and to be able to provide comfort for others is a blessing. It's not always material comfort.
I'm only posting this because while OP raising good questions and points, I don't like that it appears you demonising or dismissing whats a real thing. Human companionship ie. friendship is a blessing.
I'm only posting this because while OP raising good questions and points, I don't like that it appears you demonising or dismissing whats a real thing. Human companionship ie. friendship is a blessing.
I admit I was wrong on "coveting", I should've identified this feeling as envy and/or grief earlier.
That church is the one with the audacity to boast its abundant wealth, and not only wealth, but self-made wealth - "I'm rich, I've become wealthy, I'm in need of nothing." That's the zeitgeist I was talking about. And that "nothing", I suppose, includes human connection and relationship, which money can't buy.
I wondered about loneliness too, the response I've got is, less attitude, more gratitude.
There is also jealousy, experienced when you see someone possess what is rightfully yours.
Are you saying that desire for human touch is a RESULT of envy and/or grief, or are you rather saying that the desire CAUSES envy and/or grief...... because there is a huge difference.
There is also a pretty big difference between envy and grief; envy is a sin but grief is not. I suppose grief can lead to envy if we allow it, but that is not a foregone conclusion. Jesus did not admonish Mary and Martha for their grief, He wept with them.
I'll refrain from posting the verses telling us to weep with those who weep, and to visit widows and orphans in their distress. I do agree with you that the Western church has (in general) become very entitled and focused on what God will do for them, rather than the other way around.
However.... in your efforts to crucify the flesh you are also taking swings at things we are actually called to display; compassion, encouragement, edification, etc. Yes, one could argue those things pander to emotions. But emotions are not necessarily sinful.
We are not called to reach an emotionless state, but rather to allow Jesus to walk beside us so we can live victoriously in spite of whatever crap this life throws at us.
I have tried to kill all my emotions at various points in my life, for various reasons. Not only is it ineffective, it will ultimately hinder your testimony.
It can be the same, if what you envy is something you've lost, and you've only realized its value when it's gone, and you see others enjoying it.
I do have emotions, which I display in private, only in front of God, never in front of other people.
I guess this is the biggest weakness of stoicism, though, the philosophy I adhere to. Stoicism has a divine logos too, i.e. the Word, but the difference is that, stoic logos is the order of the universe, an impersonal, indifferent force with no life, no emotion, no personality, and to be honest, that's still my understanding of the Holy Spirit; in Christianity, the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, a real man with life, emotion and personality.
You replied to me that you can't lose what you've never had yet you were born for it. I don't know, you might be thinking of a different kind of touch than I'm talking about.
Here you say that you only display your emotions in front of God and never in front of other people. Is this because you can only trust God with them? Do you not trust any other people to possess the empathy that God possesses? Do you not believe in a kind of person that we know as empaths? Perhaps you are an empath. These tend to limit contact especially because they too easily "feel" everyone's emotions.
Some people are stoics, and some people have a culture of stoicism or 'stiff upper lip' or reserve towards others. (Upper class Brits?) Not everyone is touchy-feely, I mean in Chinese culture that's not generally a huggy culture love is shown through food mostly.
American culture is very extrovert, heart on sleeve, aggressive salesperson type culture. Also, it's a culture that spawned Prosperity Gospel.
State churches are very wealthy but even they are dwindling being a shell of what they once were, though I think the Vatican is still extremely wealthy (Western church?) who knows what Swiss bank accounts they have.
A lot of small churches don't have wealthy parishioners, and are struggling and the clergy/ministers are poor as church mice as they say. So I wouldn't generalise that all churches are wealthy, or the western church as a whole is wealthy. It depends on where you live, the culture and what circles you frequent I think.
American culture is very extrovert, heart on sleeve, aggressive salesperson type culture. Also, it's a culture that spawned Prosperity Gospel.
State churches are very wealthy but even they are dwindling being a shell of what they once were, though I think the Vatican is still extremely wealthy (Western church?) who knows what Swiss bank accounts they have.
A lot of small churches don't have wealthy parishioners, and are struggling and the clergy/ministers are poor as church mice as they say. So I wouldn't generalise that all churches are wealthy, or the western church as a whole is wealthy. It depends on where you live, the culture and what circles you frequent I think.
Laeodica may have been a wealthy church in a wealthy area, maybe. The hot/cold thing was referring to the water. Some areas are wealthier than others. Like if it was a resort/spa town or something. Note that there were 7 different churches in Revelation, not just one.
Stoicsm is a (Greek) philosphy, but Gnosticism was a branch of early Christianity that emphasised the spiritual over the material. I think it was also deemed a heresy by the official church back then. Then they split into Roman Catholicsm and Eastern Greek Orthodox I think. If you referring to Western Church, then you are referring to Roman Catholics right? That had the Bible in Latin, as opposed to Greek?
Lovette you have a menorah as your avatar. Are you messianic? Hebrew or Jewish people can be demonstrative, they are very much an expressive culture, I mean they had the psalmists and lot of music and entertainment come from Jewish culture.
Greek and Italian culture is also --people talk with their hands, they kiss on the cheek, they love good food, they live in the sunny mediterranean so enjoy life, its not an austere culture. Yes there are monks and nuns but they have a calling/vocation and they take vows of poverty/silence, dress in a uniform, hide away in convets/monasteries, are celibate etc. That is also part of traditional Christendom, like it or not.
Greek and Italian culture is also --people talk with their hands, they kiss on the cheek, they love good food, they live in the sunny mediterranean so enjoy life, its not an austere culture. Yes there are monks and nuns but they have a calling/vocation and they take vows of poverty/silence, dress in a uniform, hide away in convets/monasteries, are celibate etc. That is also part of traditional Christendom, like it or not.
Actually it's a matter of control, the older you get, the less control you have. In this case, oftentimes I intend to empathize with others and let some emotions effuse, my mind just somehow goes numd, no tears or laughter comes out even if I want some, it's like a defense mechanism that automatically walls off emotional displays from others as an assault.