The book of Job
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No, that is not what I said, what I said was that Job's wife telling him to curse God was just like Michal who despised David. In order to follow the Lord we must be a living sacrifice. Job was a living sacrifice. However, your wife doesn't appreciate that. This is referring to someone who feels their reputation is suffering because you are a living sacrifice. Everyone who follows the Lord will suffer similar reproach.
How could he not have known Who God is? The very first verse says:
(Job 1:1) There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was blameless and upright, and one who feared God and shunned evil.
How could he fear God if he had no idea Who God was? Then we have God talking to Satan and referring to Job as "My servant":
(Job 1:8) Then the LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered My servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, one who fears God and shuns evil?"
How could Job have been God's servant if he didn't know Who God was?
Then we have these words of Job:
(Job 1:21) And he said: "Naked I came from my mother's womb, And naked shall I return there. The LORD gave, and the LORD has taken away; Blessed be the name of the LORD."
Those aren't words that somebody who doesn't know Who God is would say.
All that is from chapter 1. There is more in the following chapters that show Job did know God.
Why would you say that? Did Noah know God? According to rabbinic tradition Job was Shem, Noah's son. Classical rabbinic tradition says that Shem was Melchizedek. So Job gives us th transformation of Noah's son Shem into Melchizedek.
You said, "How could he not have known Who God is? The very first verse says:" (Job 1:1) There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was blameless and upright, and one who feared God and shunned evil.
I can say it because Job said it in chapter nine. Notice that Job 1:1 says Job feared God. I believe this following verse applies to Job. Isa 29:13 Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men: Job said he only knew God by the hearing of the ear, and that is inline with Isaiah 29:13.
I believe Job's heart failed him at the second test. He failed to bless God as he had in the first, and in the immediate following chapter he cursed the day he was born, and stated he wished to be free from his master.
You said, "How could Job have been God's servant if he didn't know Who God was?" Nebuchadnezzar was declared God's servant by Jeremiah, before Nebuchadnezzar had set up the golden image.
While the Talmud has interesting information that can be true on occasion it was never canonized to my knowledge. Eliphaz was a Temanite, who supposedly were descendants of Edom. It would appear Shem died a little before Esau was born. The language used in the book of Job was a late language, rather than an early language.
I would say Job didn't know God because Job said so.
The book of Job is the lynchpin between human experience and prayer.
In Genesis we learn of Melchizedek, this is the highest priesthood, superior to the levitical priesthood, it is the priesthood of reconciliation that Paul tells us about in the New Testament. Genesis gives us the seeds for everything that we see in Revelation. The twelve tribes are there, but the levitical priesthood is not, the only mention at all is that they are inferior to the priesthood of Melchizedek, having given tithes to Melchizedek. All of human history shows us how the things that happen to us should lead us to prayer and to seek the Lord, this is shown us in the Psalms as David turns the words of Job into prayers. We learn from Rabbinic tradition that Noah's son, Shem is Melchizedek and that the story of Job tells us about how he sought the ministry of reconciliation and the suffering he went through before being appointed to the priesthood according to the order of Melchizedek.
drive.google.com
In Genesis we learn of Melchizedek, this is the highest priesthood, superior to the levitical priesthood, it is the priesthood of reconciliation that Paul tells us about in the New Testament. Genesis gives us the seeds for everything that we see in Revelation. The twelve tribes are there, but the levitical priesthood is not, the only mention at all is that they are inferior to the priesthood of Melchizedek, having given tithes to Melchizedek. All of human history shows us how the things that happen to us should lead us to prayer and to seek the Lord, this is shown us in the Psalms as David turns the words of Job into prayers. We learn from Rabbinic tradition that Noah's son, Shem is Melchizedek and that the story of Job tells us about how he sought the ministry of reconciliation and the suffering he went through before being appointed to the priesthood according to the order of Melchizedek.
Reversing_the_Curse_Updated.pdf
drive.google.com
According to biblical genealogies and timelines, Esau had his first children (his sons with his Hittite wives) at the age of 40. Based on the generations listed in Genesis, this occurred roughly 389 to 430 years after the Great Flood. Meanwhile Shem lived 500 years after the flood. So there is no issue with Eliphaz being a son of Esau at the same time that Shem was alive.
The subject being addressed is cause and effect. Cause and Effect is "the direct relationship between an action or event and its consequence or result. Do you understand this concept within the context of this story?
When God says Job's suffering has arisen "without cause" He is saying that there was no action on the part of Job which instigated Job's suffering. There is no justification for it. Job did not commit any action that legitimized him suffering his horrific ordeal. God knows this fact. Satan knows this fact. Everyone reading the story knows (or should know) this fact. Again, "without cause" is simply just that: without cause.
Yet, according to your own personal, stand-alone interpretation, you accuse Job of sin, which you claim is why Job suffers. Yet not only is this nowhere in the text, everything in the text actually stands in direct opposition to your opinion. This is why, it seems, you have to rely on inventing sins for Job and accusing him of things in order to suit your interpretation.
The reason it is difficult to move on and address other facets of this story with you is because the fundamental terms of the story are not the same. You are interpreting from a completely different set of rules and terms, most of which are not supported by what is written. That's a problem.
Question: have you ever considered changing your point of view based on what the Scripture actually says in this story? Have you ever thought of removing these unfounded insertions and accepting the story as written? Seriously asking, have you? Even as just a thought experiment? Or have you only ever been locked into this one and only view?
The lesson we learn in Job concerning prayer is the same lesson the Lord teaches us in Matthew 18. Since the Lord has forgiven us we should forgive others. If we don't, God won't forgive us, if we do, then it opens the door for all the blessings of the New Testament to come our way. When Job prayed for his three friends that was when he was blessed with the double portion, that was when all the stuff he was going through came to an end. Everything he had gone through taught him that as he had been reconciled to God so also his prayer should be that others are also reconciled to God.The book of Job is the lynchpin between human experience and prayer.
In Genesis we learn of Melchizedek, this is the highest priesthood, superior to the levitical priesthood, it is the priesthood of reconciliation that Paul tells us about in the New Testament. Genesis gives us the seeds for everything that we see in Revelation. The twelve tribes are there, but the levitical priesthood is not, the only mention at all is that they are inferior to the priesthood of Melchizedek, having given tithes to Melchizedek. All of human history shows us how the things that happen to us should lead us to prayer and to seek the Lord, this is shown us in the Psalms as David turns the words of Job into prayers. We learn from Rabbinic tradition that Noah's son, Shem is Melchizedek and that the story of Job tells us about how he sought the ministry of reconciliation and the suffering he went through before being appointed to the priesthood according to the order of Melchizedek.
Reversing_the_Curse_Updated.pdf
Did you do your own math, and if not who's math are you using. What year do you have as the death of Shem? According to the Hebrew bible it was 552 years from the flood to the birth of Esau. I often make mistakes but I checked it with James Ussher's Annals of the World, and the numbers matched.
No one can say definitively who Eliphaz was or who Job was.
The real question is what is the evidence that the book of Job is telling us about the priesthood according to the order of Melchizedek?
1. Jesus tells us that every book of the Bible is about Him. Clearly one of the most important aspects of Jesus is that He was made a priest according to the order of Melchizedek. So one would expect there is a book in the Bible that gives us the details of the order of Melchizedek.
2. From the New Testament we learn about the priesthood of Melchizedek being superior to the levitical priesthood, we have an entire book of the Bible telling us about the Levitical priesthood, it is certainly reasonable to ask for an entire book telling us about the priesthood of Melchizedek.
3. This book should predate the books of Moses. That would mean the book of Job is the single best candidate without any competition whatsoever.
4. We learn from the New Testament that Jesus' ministry is a ministry of reconciliation and that all of the servants of the Lord who receive a ministry have received a ministry of reconciliation, which means that ministry is according to the order of Melchizedek.
5. The book of Job describes a ministry of reconciliation. Chapter 1 describes Job offering a burnt offering as a propitiation for sins. That describes Job as a priest, and it is precisely the same sacrfice that Jesus, our High Priest offered when He died on the cross.
6. The book of Job describes Job entreating God to forgive his friends, that is a ministry of reconciliation. The same ministry that Jesus and His disciples have. It is according to the order of Melchizedek.
7. Melchizedek offering bread and wine is mirrored in Jesus establishing the New Testament by offering His body and blood as our bread and wine.
Although I cannot prove that Job is Shem or that Melchizedek is Shem, I can prove that the priesthood of Melchizedek directly aligns with the priesthood of Job and that the book of Job accurately describes the priesthood according to the order of Melchizedek which Jesus was made the High Priest of.
There is a strong connection between Abraham and Noah. According to the book of Jasher Abraham went to stay with Noah for 39 years before returning home, destroying the idols, and being thrown into the furnace of fire by Nimrod. Now the book of Jubilees says that Noah divided the land among his three sons and Shem was given the land that would include Jerusalem. Therefore it is very reasonable that Shem would be "king of Salem" while Abraham was alive. Those two books would explain the relationship between Abraham and Melchizedek if he is in fact Shem.
The total loss that Job experiences in the book is not that different from the total loss we see in the story of Noah. So it is possible that Shem was Melchizedek and that Job was a different man who also became a priest according to the order of Melchizedek.
What we can prove is far more valuable than speculation.
Hebrews 10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me: 6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure. 7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
The Old Testament told us they would replace the Levitical Priesthood with the priesthood according to the order of Melchizedek and that the key difference is that the Levitical priesthood makes atoning sacrifices, they place their hands on the animal to indicate they are one with the animal being sacrificed while the priesthood which Jesus has, the order of Melchizedek, sacrifices your own body. The key point is that you become a living sacrifice. The only book that can be said to describe the priest being a living sacrifice is the book of Job.
No, Jesus Christ has made us priests according to the order of Melchisedek, Peter told us that we are priests, Paul told us we have received the ministry of reconciliation, and Hebrews tells us that Jesus Christ is our High Priest, not according to the Levitical Priesthood but according to the order of Melchisedek. We cannot be priests according the levitical priesthood, and there are a hundred reasons why, anyone with just a rudimentary understanding of the Bible would know that.
You are changing the context when you say God said, Job's suffering has arisen "without cause." You are making "Job's suffering" as the main subject, while the Bible has "moved me" as the main subject.
The reason for God's movement is Satan's cause. Satan's cause was that Job would (English translation-curse/Hebrew-bless not) you to your face. That was Satan's cause, because Satan set the parameters. The bible does not tell us what God's cause was for allowing the test, but that doesn't mean that God didn't have a reason for allowing it. There is always a reason.
The New Testament is our covenant. Jesus Christ is our High Priest. It doesn't matter if you are "Jewish" you have to be born into a very specific family to be eligible to be a priest according to the levitical order.
Melchisedek predates Jesus and predates Job. The order of Melchisedek has existed since the time of Noah. His ministry was a ministry of reconciliation. Job is clearly depicted making a propitiation sacrifice at the start of the book. None of these objections have any merit.
Hebrews 7:1 For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him; 2 To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace; 3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.
For our covenant this priesthood is more important than the Levitical priesthood. Our priesthood is this order. Now if there is an entire book of the Bible on the Levitical Priesthood there should be a book on this Priesthood. Other than Job what other book presents a man who is the king of righteousness? A man without father or mother, without descent having neither beginning of days nor end of life?
There can be no question that the book of Job presents a propitiating sacrifice, the same sacrifice that Jesus made, and Jesus is made a high priest according to the order of Melchisedek. There is no propitiating sacrifice in the Levitical priesthood, they had expiating sacrifices. You can offer up something for your cleansing, you can't offer up something for someone else in the event they may have sinned.
For our covenant this priesthood is more important than the Levitical priesthood. Our priesthood is this order. Now if there is an entire book of the Bible on the Levitical Priesthood there should be a book on this Priesthood. Other than Job what other book presents a man who is the king of righteousness? A man without father or mother, without descent having neither beginning of days nor end of life?
There can be no question that the book of Job presents a propitiating sacrifice, the same sacrifice that Jesus made, and Jesus is made a high priest according to the order of Melchisedek. There is no propitiating sacrifice in the Levitical priesthood, they had expiating sacrifices. You can offer up something for your cleansing, you can't offer up something for someone else in the event they may have sinned.
This is all bunny holes in regards to Job. Job made an offering for his children because they sinned in their hearts, just like Job. And then his children died while partying. Job made a plea for his friends at the last chapter, and that was because Job had requested to God that someone might plead for him. My bible says that is when Job was accepted by God.