The Need for Spiritual Fathers for the People of God

[frederickdoc]

Well as some may know they inherit this same order

 

[JohnDB]

Under law Jesus couldn't be High priest .His line was King By Jesus using his own blood Jesus changed The law it is called the order of machesideck

The Mercy Seat on the Ark of the Covenant is literally HIS CHAIR. it belonged to no one else. All the who do surrounding it is because it's just a copy....a shadow of his real chair in Heaven.

Leverite Law? Jesus is the fulfillment of the Law, Personified....

Right. I just don't see it the way you do.

You failed to acknowledge that He was addressing His disciples and the crowds:

"Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to His disciples, saying..."
It was instruction for the people, not just His apostles and disciples. And this wasn't a missive only on their religious system: He was addressing their culture. Like here where He addresses their heritage:

"..do not be called ‘Rabbi’; for One is your Teacher, the Christ, and you are all brethren."
Again, we know He was restoring the priesthood of Melchizedek. Unlike the Mosaic priesthood whereby only the Levites could be priests, the order of Melchizedek creates priests from all who have the Spirit of God in them.

Traditionally, the Jews don't give much thought considering Melchizedek. To those in Christ, however, his administration, as the pattern for the priesthood in Christ, is central to our culture. In the kingdom culture there is no separation of religions adherence and day-to-day life; no priesthood and laity. In the kingdom of God and in the order of Melchizedek all are royal priests: "priests" because their ministry is "Christ in them, the hope of glory" and "royal" because everyone derives their nature from the King of kings, God, their Father.

"Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven."

Seeking pride, titles, honor is absolutely verboten. If Jesus can come to Earth and not be Emperor of the world....I can go without any honorific title other than "brother" used in a derogatory fashion.

That's what that's about.

And you have yet to refute a single thing I've stated, provided one single crumb of fact to denounce anything I've said.

I've been waiting....patiently....
However I have successfully refuted most of your premises. Even if you do keep bringing up all the whataboutisms and red herrings and subject shifts you can muster.

 

[Mem]

Of COURSE I'm using Jewish traditions of that specific time period....it's perfectly relevant to what and why Jesus said what he said

That the whole of "call no one else "rabbi". Rabbi is the Hebrew word for father. It's formal versus the more informal "Abba" or our equivalent to "daddy" or "dad" . And Jesus is reminding the Apostles....He, Himself is God.

You did NOT call a Rabbi "daddy". (Disrespectful)

But adopted sons are allowed the informal "daddy" for their adopted father....because they are household members.

I've never heard this teaching before, that Rabbi is the Hebrew word for father. I've only known of "Av" as the formal of Abba.

 

[frederickdoc]

The Mercy Seat on the Ark of the Covenant is literally HIS CHAIR. it belonged to no one else. All the who do surrounding it is because it's just a copy....a shadow of his real chair in Heaven.

Leverite Law? Jesus is the fulfillment of the Law,

A King son of man can Not Be a Priest . So here hear Him yourself
The Lord sware and Will Not Repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek." This is because son of man jew law God Own law Only The ZHigh priest could bring in the blood sacrifice. I'm you have read Jesus brought his own blood. If a king acts like as priest The king is punished By God it all written do as reminded again Hear Him
The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek."
Spoke The Law Order !you all seem to forget Jesus was proud He called himself Son of Man.

 

[frederickdoc]

So yeah all done and He Son of Man is Glorified and He is Lord and Christ
I know History is Not the Now but Got us to the Now to live in Him! He in Us !
so I hear One word
COME

 

[JohnDB]

I've never heard this teaching before, that Rabbi is the Hebrew word for father. I've only known of "Av" as the formal of Abba.

More than one way to say the same thing...
Hebrew is a metaphoric language that is VERB based....not noun based like English. The two don't really match up precisely. Both "teacher" and "father" in English are nouns that describe a list of activities...and more active activity described in Hebrew.
Like Bar-Tholomew is the "son of Tholomew"....
Bar-Rabbis is the "son of rabbis" who actually was more political than religious in a time when there was zero separation of politics from religion. Religion was politics and politics was religion. VERY VERY different from anything we have ever had in America.

It is difficult for us today to relate to living in a Caste based society with very different social norms. What is a complete embarrassment today wouldn't even register then....and vice versa.
Except going broke.....going broke in Israel itself among the other Jews is one thing....going broke among the goyim (gentiles) in the Gentiles land is worse....

Getting off subject here....

Suffice it to say....
Jesus didn't want us to go after titles of authority and not seek to be a social climber or name-dropper. (People still do this today though....several famous ones too).
Timothy remained Timothy....not BenPaul or BarSaul..... he never changed his name. Ben-oni versus Ben-jamin....

 

[Aaron56]

The Mercy Seat on the Ark of the Covenant is literally HIS CHAIR. it belonged to no one else. All the who do surrounding it is because it's just a copy....a shadow of his real chair in Heaven.

Leverite Law? Jesus is the fulfillment of the Law, Personified....



Seeking pride, titles, honor is absolutely verboten. If Jesus can come to Earth and not be Emperor of the world....I can go without any honorific title other than "brother" used in a derogatory fashion.

That's what that's about.

And you have yet to refute a single thing I've stated, provided one single crumb of fact to denounce anything I've said.

I've been waiting....patiently....
However I have successfully refuted most of your premises. Even if you do keep bringing up all the whataboutisms and red herrings and subject shifts you can muster.

Nah, it’s there. You just don’t receive it. It requires a higher perspective.
No worries if you don’t get it. Not everyone is cut out for this.

I think you were embarrassed because you don’t understand the significance of Melchizedek. No worries. Just learn and move forward.

 

[JohnDB]

Nah, it’s there. You just don’t receive it. It requires a higher perspective.
No worries if you don’t get it. Not everyone is cut out for this.

I think you were embarrassed because you don’t understand the significance of Melchizedek. No worries. Just learn and move forward.

Of course just about every serious student of scripture knows about Melchizedek....what are you?

Melchizedek is without beginning or end. Duh. (Just being extremely brief because I'm tired of you at the moment).
You have that common attitude....the one that's very annoying.

 

[Aaron56]

Of course just about every serious student of scripture knows about Melchizedek....what are you?

Melchizedek is without beginning or end. Duh. (Just being extremely brief because I'm tired of you at the moment).
You have that common attitude....the one that's very annoying.

You’re a bit condescending. I’m sticking with you were embarrassed. No worries, mate.

 

[JohnDB]

You’re a bit condescending. I’m sticking with you were embarrassed. No worries, mate.

I don't think you really understand the elements of a conversation yet.
I'm not embarrassed....
This is the internet and my concern and ability to be embarrassed is non-existent....especially with a newbie.
My cats?
I'd be more embarrassed around them (and I doubt they would understand anyway) than this site. (No offense to Admin)
I don't know you and you don't appear regularly in my life. And you have yet to refute a single thing I've said or proven a single thing you have said.

However, John 3 and Romans 1 come to mind....
You either love and seek truth and light....or you don't. Especially for passages that have given most people pause for so long....they have had a difficult time reconciling them with so much of what Jesus did, said, and preached.
Because here's Jesus breaking "rules" (handwashing, healing, Sabbath).and dismissing practices and instituting a very fluid New Covenant....but now has a few arbitrary rules that makes no sense?
Zero rhyme or reason to this one.....

But....what do I know?

I could be wrong....it's not like I'm perfect enough to crucify. I want people to look for these answers themselves....maybe they will find out the same things I've said and described....maybe something different. (I doubt it).
Maybe they will find the originator of this stuff you just said....maybe.

If ONLY there was a way to find out information....like a WEB of connections WORLD WIDE and some kind of GOOGLE plex of a search engine that can look for articles.....if only that were true.

 

[GWH]

Relationships....
Let's start there.

Okay, so start relating!

 

[Aaron56]

I don't think you really understand the elements of a conversation yet.
I'm not embarrassed....
This is the internet and my concern and ability to be embarrassed is non-existent....especially with a newbie.
My cats?
I'd be more embarrassed around them (and I doubt they would understand anyway) than this site. (No offense to Admin)
I don't know you and you don't appear regularly in my life. And you have yet to refute a single thing I've said or proven a single thing you have said.

However, John 3 and Romans 1 come to mind....
You either love and seek truth and light....or you don't. Especially for passages that have given most people pause for so long....they have had a difficult time reconciling them with so much of what Jesus did, said, and preached.
Because here's Jesus breaking "rules" (handwashing, healing, Sabbath).and dismissing practices and instituting a very fluid New Covenant....but now has a few arbitrary rules that makes no sense?
Zero rhyme or reason to this one.....

But....what do I know?

I could be wrong....it's not like I'm perfect enough to crucify. I want people to look for these answers themselves....maybe they will find out the same things I've said and described....maybe something different. (I doubt it).
Maybe they will find the originator of this stuff you just said....maybe.

If ONLY there was a way to find out information....like a WEB of connections WORLD WIDE and some kind of GOOGLE plex of a search engine that can look for articles.....if only that were true.

Weird way to write “I was too quick to tell you you were wrong. I should have considered the topic apart from my own personal bias”. But I’ll accept it.

 

[Aaron56]

Seeking pride, titles, honor is absolutely verboten. If Jesus can come to Earth and not be Emperor of the world....I can go without any honorific title other than "brother" used in a derogatory fashion.

Where did you get the idea that this was about a pride, titles, or honor?

 

[JohnDB]

Weird way to write “I was too quick to tell you you were wrong. I should have considered the topic apart from my own personal bias”. But I’ll accept it.

I did not write ANYTHING CLOSE TO WHAT YOU SAID

I SAID YOU WERE WRONG
(I still stand by that assessment and have even further doubts about your skills in elementary hermeneutics)

AND

YOU HAVE SERIOUS DEFICITS IN SKILLS REQUIRED FOR HOLDING A CONVERSATION.
(Meaning you still haven't grasped the importance of the 2nd most important Commandment given by Jesus....meaning you likely don't really own the first)

 

[Aaron56]

Let’s move on…

"Father and son" is common language in the New Testament:

Paul: "For though you might have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet you do not have many fathers; for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel."
Paul: "For this reason I have sent Timothy to you, who is my beloved and faithful son in the Lord..."
Paul: "Therefore I urge you, imitate me."
Paul: "I do not write these things to shame you, but as my beloved children I warn you."
Paul: "My little children, for whom I labor in birth again until Christ is formed in you..."
Paul: "..as you know how we exhorted, and comforted, and charged every one of you, as a father does his own children..."
Paul: "To Titus, a true son in our common faith..."
Paul: "I appeal to you for my son Onesimus, whom I have begotten while in my chains..."
Peter: "She who is in Babylon, elect together with you, greets you; and so does Mark my son."
John: "My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous."
John: "My little children, let us not love in word or in tongue, but in deed and in truth."
John: "I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth."
And many others...

Why is it so uncommon to hear this in non-Roman Catholic churches?

And, if you are not familiar with me, I am far from a proponent of the Roman Catholic church.

"Father" is not an office or a title. It is a distinction of maturity; a son of God who has been given the responsibility of watching over the souls of less mature believers. He is known for his faithfulness to the Lord and to the people of God. He does not attain this status by cloistered study, he is foremost a servant to God and to the saints, doing the work of a shepherd among the sheep.

But he is not content to let the sheep remain in their current level of understanding. He seeks to raise them up to be able to shoulder the greater responsibilities of the House. Like raising children, the older eventually know how to set the table, cook the food, and care for the young... this is the natural antecedent of God's spiritual House. Eventually, all who have eaten at the table of the father can properly look after their own family and household. Since a father in the Lord is of a long line of fathers who fear the Lord - as the beginning of wisdom - the mature children should carry on the pattern of such a life in the houses they've been given.

John probably captured the need to build generationally better than any other writer. He addressed the babes, the children, the young men, and the fathers of his spiritual household. As a faithful steward of men's souls, he connects them all back to our One Father, the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[JohnDB]

Let’s move on…

"Father and son" is common language in the New Testament:

Paul: "For though you might have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet you do not have many fathers; for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel."
Paul: "For this reason I have sent Timothy to you, who is my beloved and faithful son in the Lord..."
Paul: "Therefore I urge you, imitate me."
Paul: "I do not write these things to shame you, but as my beloved children I warn you."
Paul: "My little children, for whom I labor in birth again until Christ is formed in you..."
Paul: "..as you know how we exhorted, and comforted, and charged every one of you, as a father does his own children..."
Paul: "To Titus, a true son in our common faith..."
Paul: "I appeal to you for my son Onesimus, whom I have begotten while in my chains..."
Peter: "She who is in Babylon, elect together with you, greets you; and so does Mark my son."
John: "My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous."
John: "My little children, let us not love in word or in tongue, but in deed and in truth."
John: "I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth."
And many others...

Why is it so uncommon to hear this in non-Roman Catholic churches?

And, if you are not familiar with me, I am far from a proponent of the Roman Catholic church.

"Father" is not an office or a title. It is a distinction of maturity; a son of God who has been given the responsibility of watching over the souls of less mature believers. He is known for his faithfulness to the Lord and to the people of God. He does not attain this status by cloistered study, he is foremost a servant to God and to the saints, doing the work of a shepherd among the sheep.

But he is not content to let the sheep remain in their current level of understanding. He seeks to raise them up to be able to shoulder the greater responsibilities of the House. Like raising children, the older eventually know how to set the table, cook the food, and care for the young... this is the natural antecedent of God's spiritual House. Eventually, all who have eaten at the table of the father can properly look after their own family and household. Since a father in the Lord is of a long line of fathers who fear the Lord - as the beginning of wisdom - the mature children should carry on the pattern of such a life in the houses they've been given.

John probably captured the need to build generationally better than any other writer. He addressed the babes, the children, the young men, and the fathers of his spiritual household. As a faithful steward of men's souls, he connects them all back to our One Father, the Lord Jesus Christ.

Nope....
Can't move on since your original premise is severely flawed.

A ship calculates a heading off into the ocean.....if that heading is even a degree off it can mean hundreds to thousands of miles off course when trying to find the objective.

So....can't move forward until you fix your basic premise....because a little bit off is no different that a LOT off.

 

[JohnDB]

How about Blind Bartemaus and what he yelled at Jesus as He went by.....?
As further explained in Galatians 3:16....
He really wasn't yelling "son of David" as commonly translated....but "Zera David" or literally "SEED of David" not zerabim (plural of zera/seed) but singular.....

 

[frederickdoc]

And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven."

 

[Aaron56]

Wondering: how many here have spiritual fathers or people who watch over their souls that give an account to the Father?

 

[frederickdoc]

This is all you need to get to this position once Holy Spirit filled, know this
Jesus did not keep this Dual Title for Himself. Through His Sacrifice, He brought His followers into this exact same Royal Priesthood.

• The Apostle Peter's Declaration: In 1 Peter 2:9, Peter tells believers: "But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people." A "royal priesthood" means you are simultaneously a king (royal) and a priest.
• The Revelation Connection: In Revelation 1:6, John writes that Jesus Christ "hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father." This is repeated in Revelation 5:10, stating that believers will reign on the earth.

How to Walk in the Order of Melchizedek Dual Title
According to the Epistles, operating in this order changes how a believer lives every day compared to the old legalistic priesthood:
No More Physical Sacrifices: Instead of slaughtering animals, your job as a priest is to offer spiritual sacrifices. Romans 12:1 commands you to present your own body as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God.
A Life of Blessing: Just like Melchizedek met Abraham with bread, wine, and a blessing, your role as a royal priest is to bring spiritual nourishment, peace, and blessings to the people around you.
Direct Access to the Throne: Under the old system, regular people were kept far away from the holy places. Under the Order of Melchizedek, Hebrews 4:16 says you can step boldly right into the throne room of grace to find help in times of need.
Come