Yes this is written to believers, my statement was concerning initial saving faith placed in the completed work of Christ Jesus to receive the gift of salvation.
Election by God Is According to His will, not man’s Will to believe
- Thread starter Jon777
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Yes this is written to believers, my statement was concerning initial saving faith placed in the completed work of Christ Jesus to receive the gift of salvation.
I would never for one single moment expect an embedded Calvinist or reformed or some combo of either or, to believe anything other than what they already believe
God forbid you should actually consult ALL of scripture rather than just what you think entertains your beliefsfd
Calvinism is a mind trap that appeals to those who think they don't have to do any work
This is especially ridiculous. We do not receive the Spirit of God until after salvation. The Holy Spirit does not dwell in an unsanctified vessel.
The Bible is explictly informative on this matter. How is it some of you reformed people have it backwards?
You all confused, I just showed you the chosen receive the sanctifying of the Spirit, for or unto belief of the truth
One needs to have Salvation applied by the Spirit before they can believe the Truth
It does seem particularly difficult to argue that salvation comes before faith, given that 1 Corinthians 1:21 says that in God's Soverignty He was the one who decided that He would save those who believe the seemingly foolish gospel.
This is a common argument. It goes like this:
My understanding of the Bible is correct. Any view of the Bible which contradicts my view is wrong. Therefore, if you disagree with me, you are disagreeing with the Bible.
But I have never seen that argument produce any converts.
Yeah, you're right, mostly. I pass over most of these opportunities to rehash the same issues over and over, but occasionally I'm drawn to respond to something someone says, as in this OP. The premise here is that God is soverign over election but not over free will. And my answer is quite simple - He decided, on His own, without consultation with anyone else, that He would save from His wrath everyone who believes the seemingly foolish gospel that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures (1 Cor 1:21 ff). This is a message worth sharing.
Yes, which is why I try to keep discussion impersonal (not using personal pronouns).
For example, I recently noted that defining faith wrongly--as a meritorious work instead of
merely satisfying God's condition (IF/MFW) of seeking forgiveness as GW does (per Matt. 4:17, 7:7, 23:37,
John 6:29, Rom. 3:21-5:1, 10:9, etc.)--perverts the Gospel (Gal. 1:6-9), so no one should do that!
I have no problem with scriptuture. God Himself has a problem with those who put words in His mouth and make Him out as some kind of little god suffering from capricious whims and playing tic tac toe with the lives of people on earth. Jesus died for ALL, as scripture states.
God's electing grace flows from His foreknowledge not His will. Rom 8:29, 1 Pe 1:2.
A close inspection of Ephesians chapter 1 shows that the 'chosen' are those IN Christ. You were NOT chosen to be in Christ but rather chosen because you were IN Christ.
Also, election/predestination has as its goal, that 'we should be holy and without blame before Him in love' v4.
The idea that election is God choosing some for heaven and the rest for Hell, is not found in the Bible.
A close inspection of Ephesians chapter 1 shows that the 'chosen' are those IN Christ. You were NOT chosen to be in Christ but rather chosen because you were IN Christ.
Also, election/predestination has as its goal, that 'we should be holy and without blame before Him in love' v4.
The idea that election is God choosing some for heaven and the rest for Hell, is not found in the Bible.
Well that's how to come out a winner when scripture is the battlefield and verses are used like the flaming arrows of that particular individual known as old nick. Just start making personal and desultory comments at someone when you cannot actually find a verse you just know will put them in their place.
Or, perhaps you cannot find that verse because it does not exis. 0
You do if you reject TULIP Truths, they are derived from scripture.
All them the Father gave Him Jn 6:37
37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
Jn 17:2
2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
You were given scripture, maybe you want a newspaper clipping or somethingWell that's how to come out a winner when scripture is the battlefield and verses are used like the flaming arrows of that particular individual known as old nick. Just start making personal and desultory comments at someone when you cannot actually find a verse you just know will put them in their place.
Or, perhaps you cannot find that verse because it does not exis. 0
How deep into the vault of Calvinistic apologetics did you have to reach for that? I would say not too deep since that is a favorite text Calvin's loyal but erroneous followers, depend on like some kind of mic drop. This belief stems from the common practice of certain 'isms' of seeking out verses and passages of scripture believed to support a doctrine that scripture itself does not support.
God chooses who will be sanctified by the Spirit so they will believe the Truth of the Gospel 2 Thess 2:13-14
13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.