Loss of salvation???

[brightfame52]

sin is still possible or there would be no warnings against it!

The believer sins all the time however sin isnt imputed to them Rom 4:5-8

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

 

[DavidLamb]

none say or refer to eternal salvation but part of the process of salvation

we still require perseverance!

we must participate
we must pray (works) for God grace to persevere
mt 26:21

thks

btw apostolic councils are binding on all christians mt. 16:18-19 eph 5:24 mt 28:20

Yet Jesus didn't say: "Whoever believes in Me has begun in the process of salvation." Rather, He said:

(Joh 6:47) Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life.

Yes, having been saved, granted that eternal life, Christians are to persevere, and God doesn't leave them to do that by themselves, but enables them to do so:

(Php 1:6) being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ;

As for the Council of Trent being binding on all Christians, that just is not so. For example, it decreed that the Roman Catholic Church is the ultimate interpreter of Scripture, Roman Catholic practices such as indulgences, pilgrimages, the veneration of saints and relics, and the veneration of the Virgin Mary were strongly reaffirmed. Such things are certainly not binding on all Christians. The verses you quote are not referring to a Roman Catholic Council (Trent). For example, Ephesians 5:24 says:

(Eph 5:24) Therefore, just as the church is subject to Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything.

 

[Aussie52]

"Notice how confusing and self-contradictory it is to tell the sinner to repent, to act, as though he were partially responsible for his own salvation, then tell him, that once saved, he is eternally secure. It implies that the man has responsibility before conversion but none after. It means that a person has ability to get into the kingdom but none to get out. It gives sinners a free moral agency but denies it to Christians. A strange dilemma! Surely if a sinner is morally responsible to become saved, he is just as morally responsible to remain saved. It is absurd to infer that conversion destroys freedom of the will or marks the end of probation. Therefore, in order to be logical we must affirm that if a sinner has a personal part to play in obtaining entrance into the kingdom, he also has ability to get out again, and if he has no ability to get out of the kingdom, then he has no personal ability whereby he may get in." Richard S Taylor. ' A Right Conception Of Sin'.

 

[Musicmaster]

how can God restore your soul?
ps 23:3

thks

I don't speak for others here, but I can address what scripture says.

What need would any of us have for "restoration," we who are in Christ Jesus, in the midst of already being saved to the uttermost and filled with Holy Spirit?

The emotional highs that contrived revivals foster have the benefit of helping people to feel better, but when it comes down to it, ALL believers should be allowed to edify one another in the gathering of believers rather than to sit as a passive audience, listening to that one-man show up front.

1 Corinthians 14:26
How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.

Mutual edification is the power through which we should ALL be edifying one another in our main gatherings. Instead, the tradition rooted in the man-made god known as the "program" and "service" rules through the powers of tradition and mass indifference to our birthright having been relinquished over to a professional clergy class filled with false teachings and avarice for bigger and fancier buildings with plush lawn care, carpeting, sound systems, et al.

Some like to chalk up my statements as being bitter. Well, that's not at all the case given that I am no longer bothered by those things on account of my illegitimate attendance and support of them. I today am part of a family oriented gathering where we sit together, facing one another like a family rather than trying to "fellowship" with the backs of other people's heads...and still call that some sort of...fellowship, which it isn't.

So, I'm all for you and others attending and supporting the emotional highs of "revivals" and such. Go for it.

On the other hand, the Spirit of the Lord gives to the rest of us all that we need through mutual edification, His written word and His Spirit within us.

Emotional highs are fleeting, like a whisp of vapor on the winds blowing across the field.

MM

 

[Musicmaster]

"Notice how confusing and self-contradictory it is to tell the sinner to repent, to act, as though he were partially responsible for his own salvation, then tell him, that once saved, he is eternally secure. It implies that the man has responsibility before conversion but none after. It means that a person has ability to get into the kingdom but none to get out. It gives sinners a free moral agency but denies it to Christians. A strange dilemma! Surely if a sinner is morally responsible to become saved, he is just as morally responsible to remain saved. It is absurd to infer that conversion destroys freedom of the will or marks the end of probation. Therefore, in order to be logical we must affirm that if a sinner has a personal part to play in obtaining entrance into the kingdom, he also has ability to get out again, and if he has no ability to get out of the kingdom, then he has no personal ability whereby he may get in." Richard S Taylor. ' A Right Conception Of Sin'.

Any salvation that can be lost is no salvation at all.

MM

 

[faithhopecharity101]

Sounds like works salvation, trusting in man

no it is by grace, justification is a free or gratuitous gift of God!

after that we MUST participate in perseverance!

rom 8:1
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

((walking refers to the performance of deeds))


Gal 6:7-8

7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

((sowing refers to the performance of deeds))

Romans 8:13
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

((to live according to the flesh or according to Spirit refers to to the performance of deeds))

It impossible to walk, sow, or live without deeds!

The rightous walk, sow, & live by the deeds of the Spirit!

Deeds of the Spirit!

prayer
practice of the virtues of Jesus Christ
gifts of the Spirit
suffering
alms
fasting
abiding in Christ and bearing fruit
enduring all things for love of God in perseverance unto the end

Jn 15:5 apart from Christ?

NOTHING!

phil 4:13 Union with Christ?

ALL THINGS!

acts 10:35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

Lk 1:75 In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.

(if not then acts 3:19)

Acts 3:19
Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.

thks

 

[brightfame52]

after that we MUST participate in perseverance!

Thats works

 

[faithhopecharity101]

If by our own efforts we had to persevere in order to be saved eternally, why was Jesus able to say:

(Joh 6:47 NKJV) Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life.

Yes, we must persevere, but thankfully God enables us to do so:

(Php 1:6) being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ;

eternal life in this sense refers to grace, the life of God that we possess in justification

and can merit an increase by good works mt 7:7 mt 26:41

2 pet 3:18
But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.

and can lose by sin

earthen vessels are fragile

2 Corinthians 4:7
But we have this treasure in earthen vessels , that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

grace can be lost by deadly sin

Eph 5:2-6
gal 5:1-4
gal 5:19-21
gal 6:7-8
1 cor 6:9-10 & 15-20
2 cor 4:7
1 tim 5:12
rev 21:8
rev 21:27
rom 8:1

thks

 

[brightfame52]

and can merit an increase by good works mt 7:7 mt 26:41

Anti Grace works salvation

 

[faithhopecharity101]

The believer sins all the time however sin isnt imputed to them Rom 4:5-8

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

refers to past sins at the time of justification sins after that must involve repentance and sin no more

what if you die unrepentant?

Eph 5:2-6
gal 5:1-4
gal 5:19-21
gal 6:7-8
1 cor 6:9-10 & 15-20
2 cor 4:7

thks

 

[brightfame52]

refers to past sins at the time of justification sins after that must involve repentance and sin no more

what if you die unrepentant?

Eph 5:2-6
gal 5:1-4
gal 5:19-21
gal 6:7-8
1 cor 6:9-10 & 15-20
2 cor 4:7

thks

You trusting in yourself, not Grace Salvation in and through Christ, wherein all of eternal salvation was conditioned on Him

 

[faithhopecharity101]

Yet Jesus didn't say: "Whoever believes in Me has begun in the process of salvation." Rather, He said:

(Joh 6:47) Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life.

Yes, having been saved, granted that eternal life, Christians are to persevere, and God doesn't leave them to do that by themselves, but enables them to do so:

(Php 1:6) being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ;

As for the Council of Trent being binding on all Christians, that just is not so. For example, it decreed that the Roman Catholic Church is the ultimate interpreter of Scripture, Roman Catholic practices such as indulgences, pilgrimages, the veneration of saints and relics, and the veneration of the Virgin Mary were strongly reaffirmed. Such things are certainly not binding on all Christians. The verses you quote are not referring to a Roman Catholic Council (Trent). For example, Ephesians 5:24 says:

(Eph 5:24) Therefore, just as the church is subject to Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything.

eternal life in this sense refers to grace, the life of God that we possess in justification

and can merit an increase by good works mt 7:7 mt 26:41

2 pet 3:18
But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.

and can lose by sin

earthen vessels are fragile

2 Corinthians 4:7
But we have this treasure in earthen vessels , that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

grace can be lost by deadly sin

Eph 5:2-6
gal 5:1-4
gal 5:19-21
gal 6:7-8
1 cor 6:9-10 & 15-20
2 cor 4:7
1 tim 5:12
rev 21:8
rev 21:27
rom 8:1

thks

p.s, we do not possess eternal salvation or explain
mk 10:30
mk 13:13
mt 10:22
mt 24:13
rev 2:10

 

[faithhopecharity101]

Yet Jesus didn't say: "Whoever believes in Me has begun in the process of salvation." Rather, He said:

(Joh 6:47) Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life.

Yes, having been saved, granted that eternal life, Christians are to persevere, and God doesn't leave them to do that by themselves, but enables them to do so:

(Php 1:6) being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ;

As for the Council of Trent being binding on all Christians, that just is not so. For example, it decreed that the Roman Catholic Church is the ultimate interpreter of Scripture, Roman Catholic practices such as indulgences, pilgrimages, the veneration of saints and relics, and the veneration of the Virgin Mary were strongly reaffirmed. Such things are certainly not binding on all Christians. The verses you quote are not referring to a Roman Catholic Council (Trent). For example, Ephesians 5:24 says:

(Eph 5:24) Therefore, just as the church is subject to Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything.

being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ;

God will always be faithful

does that mean no christian can be lost?

or that Christ did it all for us!

mt 7:7 ask
mt 7:14 watch and pray
jude 1:21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

thks

 

[faithhopecharity101]

I don't speak for others here, but I can address what scripture says.

What need would any of us have for "restoration," we who are in Christ Jesus, in the midst of already being saved to the uttermost and filled with Holy Spirit?

The emotional highs that contrived revivals foster have the benefit of helping people to feel better, but when it comes down to it, ALL believers should be allowed to edify one another in the gathering of believers rather than to sit as a passive audience, listening to that one-man show up front.

1 Corinthians 14:26
How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.

Mutual edification is the power through which we should ALL be edifying one another in our main gatherings. Instead, the tradition rooted in the man-made god known as the "program" and "service" rules through the powers of tradition and mass indifference to our birthright having been relinquished over to a professional clergy class filled with false teachings and avarice for bigger and fancier buildings with plush lawn care, carpeting, sound systems, et al.

Some like to chalk up my statements as being bitter. Well, that's not at all the case given that I am no longer bothered by those things on account of my illegitimate attendance and support of them. I today am part of a family oriented gathering where we sit together, facing one another like a family rather than trying to "fellowship" with the backs of other people's heads...and still call that some sort of...fellowship, which it isn't.

So, I'm all for you and others attending and supporting the emotional highs of "revivals" and such. Go for it.

On the other hand, the Spirit of the Lord gives to the rest of us all that we need through mutual edification, His written word and His Spirit within us.

Emotional highs are fleeting, like a whisp of vapor on the winds blowing across the field.

MM

cos we can sin and lose grace and be separated from God!

mt 25:30
Eph 5:2-6
gal 5:1
gal 5:19-21
gal 6:7-8
1 cor 6:9-10 & 15-20
1 tim 5:12
rev 21:8
rev 21:27

rom 8:1
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

(what if they walk after the flesh?)


Gal 6:7-8

7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

Romans 8:13
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

Matthew 25:46
And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

thks

 

[faithhopecharity101]

Thats works

thats bible!

but no its not works!

it grace and works!

grace empowering our works

but we must still do it!

deeds of the flesh or the spirit!

rom 8:1
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

((walking refers to the performance of deeds))


Gal 6:7-8

7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

((sowing refers to the performance of deeds))

Romans 8:13
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

((to live according to the flesh or according to Spirit refers to to the performance of deeds))

It impossible to walk, sow, or live without deeds!

The rightous walk, sow, & live by the deeds of the Spirit!

Deeds of the Spirit!

prayer
practice of the virtues of Jesus Christ
gifts of the Spirit
suffering
alms
fasting
abiding in Christ and bearing fruit
enduring all things for love of God in perseverance unto the end

Jn 15:5 apart from Christ?

NOTHING!

phil 4:13 Union with Christ?

ALL THINGS!

acts 10:35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

Lk 1:75 In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.

care to explain this one?

2 Corinthians 12:9
And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

Amen?

 

[faithhopecharity101]

Anti Grace works salvation

grace and works

2 Corinthians 12:9
And he said unto me, My grace issufficient for thee: for my strength ismade perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

grace empowering works

faith working thru love!

love is a verb! love is known in deeds!

John 14:15
If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Luke 8:15
But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.

Jn 15:4-5
4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

mt 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

rev 2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

Jn 15:5

apart from Christ & grace?

NOTHING!

phil 4:13

Union with Christ thru grace?

ALL THINGS!

thks

 

[brightfame52]

thats bible!

but no its not works!

it grace and works!

The scripture teaches all salvation from A to Z, from Eternity to Eternity is all of Grace, you been deceived

 

[brightfame52]

grace and works

You deceived buddy, Salvation is by Grace without works

 

[faithhopecharity101]

Thats works

not the works you are thinking of there are different kinds of works!

kinds of works

((unfruitful works))

(works of the law)

Refer to the works of the mosaic covenant

(works of the flesh)

Listed in Gal 5:19-21 & Eph 5:3-5
these cause the loss of grace and the bar us from salvation in the kingdom of God. the unfruitful works of darkness

Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. eph 5:6

(dead works) or (works alone) or (natural works)

Works that are good in and of themselves but are not in union with Christ and grace and have power to accomplish perseverance unto eternal salvation! unfruitful works

Apart from Christ: NOTHING! Jn 15:5

((fruitful works))

Living works or deeds of rightousness!

(living works) (faith & works)

Supernatural good works (gifts of God) accomplished in union with Christ and empowered by His grace with perseverance to the end of our life unto eternal salvation!

fruitful works! Lk 3:9 Jn 15:5 bear fruit

2 cor 9: And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work:

With Christ & empowered by grace:
I CAN DO ALL THINGS! Phil 4:13

((deeds of righteousness))

Lk 1:75
In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.

acts 10:35
But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

1 John 3:10
In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.



The means of our salvation is according to the purpose of our creation!

Created to Know, Love, & serve God!


thks

 

[Aussie52]

Any salvation that can be lost is no salvation at all.

MM

Can't answer Taylor's logic? You just simply dismiss it.

As to salvation, 'For this reason we must pay much closer attention to what we have heard, so that we do not drift away from it. How will we escape if we neglect so great a salvation' Heb 2:1,3. The author was addressing Christians!