Was Mary Sinless?

[TruthDefender]

The original Catholic Church dogmas were created primarily for the biblically ignorant, gullible, peasants.
They were not allowed nor able to read the Bible for themselves.
They just did as they were told.

But after the Reformation took place?
And Bibles were made available?...
The RCC got caught with their pants down.
Then scrambled with rationalized damage control teachings we see today used as their cover.

For example....

​

And do not address anyone on earth ‘father,’ ​

for you have one Father, and he is in heaven. Mat 23:9​

​

When confronted with such an embarrassment they refuse to repent.
Instead, they began to fabricate and lie like a Democrat.
It's really all about power over others. Not about knowing truth.

We find mostly superstitious-religious people having a loyal affinity for the teachings of the RCC.
Leave them be. They do not have what it takes to take on actual truth that would transform them
and free them from the control of religious men seeking power over others.

Yes, but they need to be called out so that this False doctrine leaven doesn’t spread to others.

Absolute FALSE doctrine needs to be stomped on!

 

[Genez]

Yes, but they need to be called out so that this False doctrine leaven doesn’t spread to others.

Absolute FALSE doctrine needs to be stomped on!

Did you need it to be stomped on?
Or, can you see it for yourself?


God allows for freedom of choice.
For everyone will be accountable before God for their own choices.

 

[TruthDefender]

Did you need it to be stomped on?
Or, can you see it for yourself?

It would seem you’re lashing out because you feel threatened by your so called, “Choice?”

God allows for freedom of choice.
For everyone will be accountable before God for their own choices.

Where does it say God gives you a choice? Please do provide Scriptures. He never stated we have a choice in doctrine. There is only ONE doctrine, His doctrine.

The only so called choice He gives us is to follow Him, or not to follow Him. There is no choice in doctrine!

 

[Genez]

Where does it say God gives you a choice? Please do provide Scriptures. He never stated we have a choice in doctrine. There is only ONE doctrine, His doctrine.

The only so called choice He gives us is to follow Him, or not to follow Him. There is no choice in doctrine!

To be following Him requires learning sound doctrine.

Why's that?

“For my thoughts are not your thoughts,​

neither are your ways my ways,”​

declares the Lord.​

​

“As the heavens are higher than the earth,​

so are my ways higher than your ways​

and my thoughts than your thoughts.​

Isaiah 55:8-9

How else could you follow Him?

.....

 

[TruthDefender]

Did you need it to be stomped on?
Or, can you see it for yourself?


God allows for freedom of choice.
For everyone will be accountable before God for their own choices.

So you tolerate False doctrine? It’s ok if someone preaches this in your church?

If you say I’m false, you had better tell me how, using NT Scripture. (?)

 

[sawdust]

So you tolerate False doctrine? It’s ok if someone preaches this in your church?

If you say I’m false, you had better tell me how, using NT Scripture. (?)

I'm curious as to what you would do exactly. Unless you're an Elder in the Church you have no authority over the word preached. Will you rise up and usurp another's authority and declare "unclean" and start jumping on whoever is responsible?

What exactly would be your practical steps to "stomping on" this false doctrine?

 

[TruthDefender]

To be following Him requires learning sound doctrine.

Why's that?

“For my thoughts are not your thoughts,​

neither are your ways my ways,”​

declares the Lord.​

​

“As the heavens are higher than the earth,​

so are my ways higher than your ways​

and my thoughts than your thoughts.​

Isaiah 55:8-9

How else could you follow Him?

.....

Yes, sound, NT doctrine!

 

[bytheblood]

My conversion is irrelevant to the conversation. We learn from the word of God, not people's experience.

There's a reason why you won't share and it's because if you did it would conflict with your claim that you didn't have a spirit before salvation. Someone preached ( " HOW THEN SHALL THEY CALL ON HIM in whom they have not believed? and HOW SHALL THEY BELIEVE in Him of whom they have not heard? and HOW SHALL THEY HEAR WITHOUT A PREACHER? Rom. 10:14) or testified of Gods' Word to you, which are spirit, and by it you were drawn, by your spirit,(not your soul to which it was foolishness), to receive Jesus as your Savior. Your conversion story is very relevant to this conversation, if you could only be open and honest. Experienced people taught you about the Word of God, didn't they? Did you learn anything Sawdust?

 

[bytheblood]

all of the dogma's of Mary are found in Luke one!

where does Paul teach the assension of Jesus into heaven?

the rule of faith for christians is not scripture alone!

it must be revealed by Christ (eph 4:5 & Jude 1:3) and taught by His apostolic church. (mt 28:19, in union with Christ (mt 28:20 eph 5:24)

the dogmas and decree's of apostolic councils are binding on all Christians. (mt 16:18-19 & 18:18)

we can start with Mary mother of God: Lk 1:43 And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?

showing that Mary is also the ark of the new covenant!

There is a direct parallel between the mosaic covenant and the new, between the original ark and Mary most holy!


Ex 40:34 Then a cloud covered the tent of the congregation, and the glory of the Lord filled the tabernacle.

Luke 1:35
And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.


2 Sam 6:2 And David arose, and went with all the people that were with him from Baale of Judah, to bring up from thence the ark of God, whose name is called by the name of the Lord of hosts that dwelleth between the cherubims.

Lk 1:39 And Mary arose in those days, and went into the hill country with haste, into a city of Juda;


2 Sam 6:3 And they set the ark of God upon a new cart, and brought it out of the house of Abinadab that was in Gibeah: and Uzzah and Ahio, the sons of Abinadab, drave the new cart.

4 And they brought it out of the house of Abinadab which was at Gibeah, accompanying the ark of God: and Ahio went before the ark.

5 And David and all the house of Israel played before the Lord on all manner of instruments made of fir wood, even on harps, and on psalteries, and on timbrels, and on cornets, and on cymbals.

2 Sam 6:16 And as the ark of the Lord came into the city of David, Michal Saul's daughter looked through a window, and saw king David leaping and dancing before the Lord;

Lk 1:41 And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:


2 Sam 6:9 And David was afraid of the Lord that day, and said, How shall the ark of the Lord come to me?

Lk 1:42 And she spake out with a loud voice, and said, Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.

43 And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?


2 Sam 6:11 And the ark of the Lord continued in the house of Obededom the Gittite three months: and the Lord blessed Obededom, and all his household.

Lk 1:56 And Mary abode with her about three months, and returned to her own house.


2 Sam 6:12 And it was told king David, saying, The Lord hath blessed the house of Obededom, and all that pertaineth unto him, because of the ark of God. So David went and brought up the ark of God from the house of Obededom into the city of David with gladness.

Lk 1:41 And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:

Lk 1: 67 And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied…



Ark of the old covenant!

1) dwelling place of God.

2) Consecrated to God alone, incorruptible, pure gold.

3) The Spirit over shadowed the mercy seat.

4) The salvation prepared by God.

5) The Ark was the center of the power of God.

And they of Bethshemesh were reaping their wheat harvest in the valley: and they lifted up their eyes, and saw the ark, and rejoiced to see it. 1 Sam 6:13


Mary Ark of the new covenant!

1) dwelling place of God.

2) Consecrated to God alone, incorruptible, immaculate purity & charity.

3) The Spirit over shadowed Mary most holy. (Lk 1:35)

4) The salvation prepared by God in Mary. (Lk 2:30-31)

5) Mary the new covenant Ark is the center of the power of God.

We do the very same in the new covenant with Mary the center of God's power and the ark of the new covenant!

We look upon Mary and rejoice in God's power and salvation!

God prepared "our salvation" in Mary the ark of the new covenant!
Lk 1:49 Lk 2:30:32

Amen?

" But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, THAT IN THE MOUTH OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES EVERY WORD MAY BE ESTABLISHED." That must be confirmed in more than one scripture or it's not established.

 

[bytheblood]

Honestly? A simple statement that you perceive one way while many perceive another way. Your interpretation of things leaves one baffled at times. You claimed he said he understood the Bible where in fact it was your interpretation of what he said that came to that conclusion. Sloppy.

btw It's true, many don't understand the Bible. Prove the statement wrong.



How does that even work? God gives us an alive spirit but the moment we are conceived (which would be some split nanosecond timing in that scenario) it becomes deadened but not dead? What does that even mean, "deadened"? Semi-concious, off in some twilight zone? So even though God said the consequences of sin is death, in your world it doesn't actually mean death? Our spirits are still hanging by some miracle thread waiting for the presentation of the Gospel?

I'm wondering if I should keep giving you rope?

Let us revisit a subject, if you will. When in the book of James it reads " For as the body without the spirit is dead,..." James 2:26 the word dead here is, Strong's 3498; nek-ros from prim. nekus ( a corpse ), dead lit. or fig, also as a noun dead, This speaks of people who are no longer alive. In Eph. 2:1 it reads " And you hath He quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;..." The word dead here is the same in James but it can't mean no life because to be in sin you have to be alive. So to study it out I found Strong's 3499, which is derived from 3498; nek-ro; TO DEADEN, I.E. subdue:- be dead, mortify. So the word dead DOES mean deadened in this case, as in our deadened spirits before being quickened, Strong's 2227 dzo-op-oy-eh-o;( re)-vitalize, (lit. or fig.)- make alive, give life, quicken. You revitalize, make alive and give life to something that's already in existence. C'mon Sawdust, gimme some more rope, unless, of course, you have use for it yourself ) P.S. Are you one of the ones who don't understand the Bible or one of those that do?

 

[Genez]

There's a reason why you won't share and it's because if you did it would conflict with your claim that you didn't have a spirit before salvation. Someone preached ( " HOW THEN SHALL THEY CALL ON HIM in whom they have not believed? and HOW SHALL THEY BELIEVE in Him of whom they have not heard? and HOW SHALL THEY HEAR WITHOUT A PREACHER? Rom. 10:14) or testified of Gods' Word to you, which are spirit, and by it you were drawn, by your spirit,(not your soul to which it was foolishness), to receive Jesus as your Savior. Your conversion story is very relevant to this conversation, if you could only be open and honest. Experienced people taught you about the Word of God, didn't they? Did you learn anything Sawdust?

Before salvation, we could know Jesus was a man totally devoted to his love for God.
Loved God so much, that he wanted all men to love God like he loves God.

Does that much require a human spirit to accept?

 

[Genez]

Let us revisit a subject, if you will. When in the book of James it reads " For as the body without the spirit is dead,..."

And, that is why Jesus called unbelievers "dead."

Jesus said about unbelievers attending a funeral.... "Let the dead bury their own dead."

Is that so hard for you to grasp?

Problem is... You got something to sell.
You have been practicing your lines that someone else sold you on.

Interesting, you want to sell it to others to prove to yourself that you are not stupid when they accept it.

 

[bytheblood]

Before salvation, we could know Jesus was a man totally devoted to his love for God.
Loved God so much, that he wanted all men to love God like he loves God.

Does that much require a human spirit to accept?

Yes. It is only after our spirits are quickened, revitalized, that we can even BEGIN to know the depths of Jesus' love for the Father, let alone the depths of His love for US! We knew NOTHING about Agape before salvation, only philia: brotherly love, eros: romantic love and storge: family love, all conditional, and only a little of those.

 

[bytheblood]

And, that is why Jesus called unbelievers "dead."

Jesus said about unbelievers attending a funeral.... "Let the dead bury their own dead."

Is that so hard for you to grasp?

Problem is... You got something to sell.
You have been practicing your lines that someone else sold you on.

Interesting, you want to sell it to others to prove to yourself that you are not stupid when they accept it.

I'm not trying to sell ANYTHING. If you can comprehend what I posted from Strong's, 3498-3499, or even looked it up yourself, then maybe, just maybe, even YOU might have a teachable spirit. After all, it's what you learn after you think you know it all that counts. Typically, you go to name calling when you can't refute the truth. That's your story and you're sticking to it. I've shown you proof that dead can mean either deadened spiritually or deceased bodily, and they're both in that scripture.

 

[Genez]

Yes. It is only after our spirits are quickened, revitalized, that we can even BEGIN to know the depths of Jesus' love for the Father, let alone the depths of His love for US! We knew NOTHING about Agape before salvation, only philia: brotherly love, eros: romantic love and storge: family love, all conditional, and only a little of those.

Our spirit is begotten by the Spirit when we decided we want to believe.
Careful now. I said, "wanted to believe." Not, when we believed.

I have been watching you.
You always become very dull and hard of hearing when this passage has been shown to you...
You have shown yourself to be intellectually dishonest when you do.

Here!​

​

Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. You should not be surprised at my saying, ​

‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell ​

where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.” John 3:6-8​

Your misapplication of the term 'quickened' is equivalent to saying that women are born with stillborns in her womb.
That, when the husband does what is needed to fertilize the ovum? That stillborn is quickened to make it become alive.

God quickens our human spirit only after we have received our human spirit which was begotten by the Holy Spirit.

 

[Genez]

I'm not trying to sell ANYTHING. If you can comprehend what I posted from Strong's, 3498-3499, or even looked it up yourself, then maybe, just maybe, even YOU might have a teachable spirit. After all, it's what you learn after you think you know it all that counts. Typically, you go to name calling when you can't refute the truth. That's your story and you're sticking to it. I've shown you proof that dead can mean either deadened spiritually or deceased bodily, and they're both in that scripture.

I am very teachable. Just not gullible.
And, not to be bullied.

Strongs can only provide a limited scope, not actual exegesis.
You believe it does.

Strongs would cause strange results if it was used like you keep doing to explain what Jesus meant when he said we should pluck out our eye., or cut off our hand.

 

[bytheblood]

I'm not trying to sell ANYTHING. If you can comprehend what I posted from Strong's, 3498-3499, or even looked it up yourself, then maybe, just maybe, even YOU might have a teachable spirit. After all, it's what you learn after you think you know it all that counts. Typically, you go to name calling when you can't refute the truth. That's your story and you're sticking to it. I've shown you proof that dead can mean either deadened spiritually or deceased bodily, and they're both in that scripture.

"You have been practicing your lines that someone else sold you on" I seems to me the opposite is true, I'm not the one singing praises about a teacher, you are! YOU'VE been sold someone else's lines and trying to pawn them off as your own. You need to read the book " They Thought For Themselves." Your teacher, as much as you respected and learned from him, only knows in part.

 

[bytheblood]

Our spirit is begotten by the Spirit when we decided we want to believe.
Careful now. I said, "wanted to believe." Not, when we believed.

I have been watching you.
You always become very dull and hard of hearing when this passage has been shown to you...
You have shown yourself to be intellectually dishonest when you do.

Here!​

​

Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. You should not be surprised at my saying, ​

‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell ​

where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.” John 3:6-8​

Your misapplication of the term 'quickened' is equivalent to saying that women are born with stillborns in her womb.
That, when the husband does what is needed to fertilize the ovum? That stillborn is quickened to make it become alive.

God quickens our human spirit only after we have received our human spirit which was begotten by the Holy Spirit.

My so-called misapplication of quickened came from Strong's Concordance, oh well, I guess you know more than them . This is funny, " God quickens our human spirit only AFTER we HAVE RECEIVED our human spirit which was begotten by the Holy Spirit." Soooo, God gives us a dead spirit that has to be quickened?? This is one of the questions you have asked me and now you're using it. LOL, LOL, that's hilarious. That made my day! )) The knots you guys tie yourselves up in, you just can't make this stuff up, LOL, LOL.

 

[Genez]

My so-called misapplication of quickened came from Strong's Concordance, oh well, I guess you know more than them . This is funny, " God quickens our human spirit only AFTER we HAVE RECEIVED our human spirit which was begotten by the Holy Spirit." Soooo, God gives us a dead spirit that has to be quickened?? This is one of the questions you have asked me and now your asking it. LOL, LOL, that's hilarious. That made my day! ))

God quickens our spirit when we are learning Bible teaching as to have our soul comprehend it.

And, also quickens our spirit when the Holy Spirit is having us to recall something needed we have learned to apply it to our thinking for a given situation.

God quickens our spirit to help us understand and embrace spiritual truths, leading to a revitalization of our soul. This process involves becoming more aware of the Holy Spirit's presence and influence in our lives.

 

[bytheblood]

I am very teachable. Just not gullible.
And, not to be bullied.

Strongs can only provide a limited scope, not actual exegesis.
You believe it does.

Strongs would cause strange results if it was used like you keep doing to explain what Jesus meant when he said we should pluck out our eye., or cut off our hand.

Strong's provides words and their meanings which is the crux of our disagreement. So I guess the only one, in your opinion, who can solve this dilemma is your teacher right? Sometimes, when painted into a corner, it can feel like being bullied, because there's no other way out, but through the wet paint.