Summary of Bible references on the Rapture

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ZNP said:
There are a variety of interpretations on why Dan is not listed as one of the twelve tribes composing the 144,000. At one extreme on a spectrum of interpretations is Jonathan Cahn saying it is because Dan was the leader of the apostasy and therefore he is not part of the wall. The wall is for separation, and holiness, Dan in his apostasy had no separation or holiness. On the other end of the extreme is. someone saying that the entire 144,000 are "the judge" that Dan is prophesied to be. That the entire 144,000 are the wall that decides who to keep out and who to protect. They support this interpretation saying that the tribe of Levi did not inherit the land because God was their inheritance. So Joseph got a double portion, both Ephraim and Manasseh got portions in the land and Levi didn't get anything because God was their portion.

Those are two extremely different interpretations. I would be inclined to believe that it was the second interpretation if there were a word in the Bible that Dan as the judge would act as a wall just as there is a word in the Bible explaining why Levi did not get an inheritance of the land. Since there is no such word I think that Jonathan Cahn's interpretation (which is considered a mainstream interpretation) is more likely, but I have an open mind. I don't think the verse that he will judge his brothers is enough, but I am open if someone can find a prophecy or word elsewhere that would support that interpretation. I think Dan's history of being first to embrace the apostasy would make them like Laodicea, that was the lampstand that had lost Jesus Christ as the light and life. He was outside of their church.

I also think Judas is very relevant. The 144,000 are a mingling of the twelve tribes and the twelve apostles. If one of the twelve apostles is disqualified, it would only seem fitting if one of the twelve tribes is also disqualified.
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I don't subscribe to any theologian for example Jonathan Cahn claims to be a messianic Jew. But, Jesus's parable of the wine skins and the new patch on old cloth make it very clear that you can't be Jewish and enter the New Covenant. At best you can say you're a Israeli. So everything Mr. Kahn says or does is in the flesh since he has not received the Spirit. I'll be honest with you I have to read the entire bible again with a eye on Dan. That's the only way I can be sure of a explanation, but based on what I've known about Elohim, and that is the father I can't see the possibility of him eliminating a patriacal descendency to me that doesn't seem feasible unless it were on Esau's side..
 
LTL said:
Manasses took the place of Levi in the order of the twelve tribes when Levi was called to serve.
In Rev. 7:4-8 Levi is returned because there is no longer the need for priests to serve since all 144,000 are priests serving God.
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There is no reference to Dan being called to serve, however, Levi and the other 11 tribes listed have acted as a wall that separates the people of God from the world. The Bible does not explicitly say the 144,000 are priests to God, rather they are "firstfruits" to God. This means they are an offering that belong to God. So it is not all of the Levites, only 12,000, only "the firstfruits" of them. The situation is very different from when the entire tribe was given to God as a tithe. Rather the firstfruits of each of these 12 tribes are given to God so that the whole harvest can be blessed. This is what the rapture is, and the fact that God does not want anything produced by Dan is telling.
 
GabrielMarques said:
I don't subscribe to any theologian for example Jonathan Cahn claims to be a messianic Jew. But, Jesus's parable of the wine skins and the new patch on old cloth make it very clear that you can't be Jewish and enter the New Covenant. At best you can say you're a Israeli. So everything Mr. Kahn says or does is in the flesh since he has not received the Spirit. I'll be honest with you I have to read the entire bible again with a eye on Dan. That's the only way I can be sure of a explanation, but based on what I've known about Elohim, and that is the father I can't see the possibility of him eliminating a patriacal descendency to me that doesn't seem feasible unless it were on Esau's side..
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Wow, well if you can't be Jewish and enter the New Covenant that is really bad news for the 12 apostles.
 
ZNP said:
There is no reference to Dan being called to serve, however, Levi and the other 11 tribes listed have acted as a wall that separates the people of God from the world. The Bible does not explicitly say the 144,000 are priests to God, rather they are "firstfruits" to God. This means they are an offering that belong to God. So it is not all of the Levites, only 12,000, only "the firstfruits" of them. The situation is very different from when the entire tribe was given to God as a tithe. Rather the firstfruits of each of these 12 tribes are given to God so that the whole harvest can be blessed. This is what the rapture is, and the fact that God does not want anything produced by Dan is telling.
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Very nice conclusion. I will consider what you have said.
Also, it is my understanding that the Davidic King holds his position in Judah, as well as the priesthood in Ephraim. Thereby fulfilling the primary functions of both houses in Israel. That of the kingship and the priesthood.
What are your thoughts on that?
 
LTL said:
Very nice conclusion. I will consider what you have said.
Also, it is my understanding that the Davidic King holds his position in Judah, as well as the priesthood in Ephraim. Thereby fulfilling the primary functions of both houses in Israel. That of the kingship and the priesthood.
What are your thoughts on that?
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What is your verse reference?
 
ZNP said:
What is your verse reference?
Click to expand...

I need a little time to dig that out of scripture, and I will get back to you on that.

Do you have any thoughts on the four storylines that I found in the Revelation?
Seals (ch. 5-8(i)), trumpets (ch. 8(ii)-11), mark of the beast (ch. 12-16), fall of Babylon (ch. 17-21).
 
1 Peter 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;

"Forasmuch" refers back to the previous chapter. Peter is describing the significance of baptism as it relates to Jesus' crucifixion, resurrection and ascension. It is a reference to Jesus ascending to heaven, sitting at the right hand of God as the conclusion of the baptism where we also are raised up out of the water in the same likeness. Peter is not saying that we have ceased from sin, he is saying that we should arm ourselves with the same mind because once we are raptured and taken up to heaven it will be without sin. The point of Baptism is that we are putting on the mind of Christ to take the same journey He took which ultimately concludes with us also being caught up to heaven.

2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.

So this obliterates the doctrine of "once saved always saved" as taught by many, particularly Free Masons. The New Testament does teach that you can have the full assurance of salvation. However, it also teaches that baptism is reminding us of Noah and Jesus. Noah went into the death waters and came out on the other side. Jesus went into the death waters and came out on the other side. When we get baptized we are making a public testimony that we intend to follow Jesus into the death waters and come out on the other side as well. Therefore we are arming ourselves with the same mind to cease from sin. If you get baptized into the triune God without that mindset, if you plan on returning to a life of sin as soon as the "ceremony" is over, then you have not armed yourself with the mind of Christ. You are not clothed with Noah's ark.
 
LTL said:
Do you have any thoughts on the four storylines that I found in the Revelation?
Seals (ch. 5-8(i)), trumpets (ch. 8(ii)-11), mark of the beast (ch. 12-16), fall of Babylon (ch. 17-21).
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I am not ignoring this, I am currently doing a final draft on my response. The short answer is yes. The complete answer is coming shortly.
 
ZNP said:
I am not ignoring this, I am currently doing a final draft on my response. The short answer is yes. The complete answer is coming shortly.
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No worries.
It is a large subject. My main thoughts are that some association exists between the four beasts (listed in Rev. 1:1 and in Rev. 6 as the 4 horses), and the 4 storylines.
There are two lines to these, the first being Father, Son, Angel, and John as the horses. And secondly, Son, Angel, John, and the beast of Rev. 13:1 as the rider followed by the false prophet of Rev. 13:11.

Seals would be Father, and Son as the rider
trumpets would be Son, and angel as the rider
mark of the beast (ch. 12-16) would be Angel, and John as the rider
the fall of Babylon (ch. 17-21) would be John, and the beast of 13:1 as the rider followed by the false prophet of Rev. 13:11

Not that it matters. But just a thought.
 
Compare

James 5:20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

with

1 Peter 4:8 And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins.

and

Philemon 1:18 If he hath wronged thee, or oweth thee ought, put that on mine account; 19 I Paul have written it with mine own hand, I will repay it: albeit I do not say to thee how thou owest unto me even thine own self besides.

These are the three pillars of the priesthood according to the order of Melchisedek.
 
1 Peter 4:10 As every man hath received the gift, even so minister the same one to another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God. 11 If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

This is a central theme of Peter's ministry. The Lord told him to feed his sheep. He it was that opened the door to the Gentiles when he got the revelation that all people were cleansed for ministry by the Lord's crucifixion. When the Jewish leaders commanded the apostles to stop teaching in the name of Jesus it was Peter who said that they needed to obey God and not those leaders. The black horse of famine is a result of a few corrupt leaders commanding all of God's people to be silent and not teach in the name of Jesus, whereas the truth is what Peter shares here, we are to minister as good stewards the manifold grace of God. Jesus said He had given every single believer a talent. Some more, some less, but we have all received like precious faith from Jesus and we are to share that and invest that in each others lives. If we do that there is no famine, if on the other hand we bury that talent in the back yard there will be a famine. Peter was also the one who told Ananias and Saphira their judgement for lying and pretending to have shared everything they had.
 
Here is what you will see prior to the rapture

Revelation 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;


Is Trump's billionaire bunker equal to the Fuhrerbunker that was in Berlin in 1945?


Doomsday plan? Tech billionaire and Palantir cofounder Peter Thiel relocates to Argentina


Zuck is building a huge doomsday bunker​


https://www.reddit.com/r/agi/comments/1tn7srd/zuck_is_building_a_huge_doomsday_bunker

Want to track the apocalypse? One theory: Follow the billionaires’ jets.​


www.nzherald.co.nz

Want to track the apocalypse? One theory: Follow the billionaires’ jets.

An artist has a theory: The ultrarich will flee city centres before an apocalyptic event.
www.nzherald.co.nz www.nzherald.co.nz
 
ZNP said:
I have made significant improvements to this document. The old one has been deleted and replaced with this.

The_Seven_Seals_of_the_New_Testament (1).pdf

drive.google.com drive.google.com
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Thank you.

And regarding the seven seals. There seem to be four methods of expression.
1) The seven seals as events in seven millennia. A friend explained this to me a few years ago.
2) The seven seals as events during the apostolic age that you have presented wonderfully.
3) The seven seals as events during the church age. (Just guessing at this one.)
4) The seven seals as events during the seven years of tribulation and judgment.

It may be the case that 2 and 3 are the same or that they overlap. Nevertheless, I am still trying to make the association between the four horsemen and the four storylines. And now I wonder if the four methods of expression listed above might have a better relationship to the four storylines than the four horsemen.

Numbers 1, 3, and 4 appear, at first glance, to work nicely. So the question I pose to you is, how do the seven seals, as events during the apostolic age (2 above), relate to the trumpets in Chapters 8-11?

Thank you for considering my question.
2a) How the first seal that you presented relates to the first trumpet Rev. 8:7.
2b) How the second seal that you presented relates to the second trumpet Rev. 8:8-9.
2c) How the third seal that you presented relates to the third trumpet Rev. 8:10-11.
2d) How the fourth seal that you presented relates to the fourth trumpet Rev. 8:12.
2e) How the fifth seal that you presented relates to the fifth trumpet Rev. 9:1-12.
2f) How the sixth seal that you presented relates to the sixth trumpet Rev. 9:13-21.
2g) How the seventh seal that you presented relates to the seventh trumpet.

And I can do this myself, so no worries about this.
Basically, it is the Melchizedek priesthood in the church age in relation to the trumpets.

There may not be any relationship, or perhaps very little.
 
LTL said:
Thank you.

And regarding the seven seals. There seem to be four methods of expression.
1) The seven seals as events in seven millennia. A friend explained this to me a few years ago.
2) The seven seals as events during the apostolic age that you have presented wonderfully.
3) The seven seals as events during the church age. (Just guessing at this one.)
4) The seven seals as events during the seven years of tribulation and judgment.

It may be the case that 2 and 3 are the same or that they overlap. Nevertheless, I am still trying to make the association between the four horsemen and the four storylines. And now I wonder if the four methods of expression listed above might have a better relationship to the four storylines than the four horsemen.

Numbers 1, 3, and 4 appear, at first glance, to work nicely. So the question I pose to you is, how do the seven seals, as events during the apostolic age (2 above), relate to the trumpets in Chapters 8-11?

Thank you for considering my question.
2a) How the first seal that you presented relates to the first trumpet Rev. 8:7.
2b) How the second seal that you presented relates to the second trumpet Rev. 8:8-9.
2c) How the third seal that you presented relates to the third trumpet Rev. 8:10-11.
2d) How the fourth seal that you presented relates to the fourth trumpet Rev. 8:12.
2e) How the fifth seal that you presented relates to the fifth trumpet Rev. 9:1-12.
2f) How the sixth seal that you presented relates to the sixth trumpet Rev. 9:13-21.
2g) How the seventh seal that you presented relates to the seventh trumpet.

And I can do this myself, so no worries about this.
Basically, it is the Melchizedek priesthood in the church age in relation to the trumpets.

There may not be any relationship, or perhaps very little.
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I agree that 2&3 can be seen as the same thing, we could make some distinctions, but I don't think it is that helpful. In the document I gave you it relates to the seven year tribulation as well and I explain that, you simply need to read the whole document.

I don't believe the seven seals refer to the seven millenia. However, you can look at the seven churches as showing us the seven churches throughout the church age: Apostolic church (Ephesus), Suffering Church when Christians were being burned at the stake (Smyrna), the compromised church when Christianity became the national religion of Rome (Pergamos), the Roman Catholic church (Thyatira), Protestant denominations (Sardis), Evangelical church (Philadelphia), and Apostate church (Laodicea). Based on this interpretation the last four will be here at the time of the rapture.

However, I don't believe that the seven seals being opened can refer to the seven thousand year history of mankind because it is very clear in the book of Revelation that the seals were not opened until after Jesus ascended to the throne, a point that Paul makes in the book of Ephesians. However, it is reasonable to equate the sixth seal being opened to the end of the church age which is also the end of the six thousand years of human history which is also the end of the church age.
 
ZNP said:
I agree that 2&3 can be seen as the same thing, we could make some distinctions, but I don't think it is that helpful. In the document I gave you it relates to the seven year tribulation as well and I explain that, you simply need to read the whole document.

I don't believe the seven seals refer to the seven millenia. However, you can look at the seven churches as showing us the seven churches throughout the church age: Apostolic church (Ephesus), Suffering Church when Christians were being burned at the stake (Smyrna), the compromised church when Christianity became the national religion of Rome (Pergamos), the Roman Catholic church (Thyatira), Protestant denominations (Sardis), Evangelical church (Philadelphia), and Apostate church (Laodicea). Based on this interpretation the last four will be here at the time of the rapture.

However, I don't believe that the seven seals being opened can refer to the seven thousand year history of mankind because it is very clear in the book of Revelation that the seals were not opened until after Jesus ascended to the throne, a point that Paul makes in the book of Ephesians. However, it is reasonable to equate the sixth seal being opened to the end of the church age which is also the end of the six thousand years of human history which is also the end of the church age.
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So what is the purpose of dividing the Book of Revelation into four sections? And these sections are designed to stand out.

The seals Ch. 5-8(i) with an ending that doubles as a midpoint harmonized to Chapter Fifteen
The trumpets Ch. 8:ii)-11 with a clear ending
The mark of the beast Ch. 12-16 with a clear ending
The fall of Babylon Ch. 17-21 with a clear ending

Are these supposed to be harmonized together for a clearer picture of the tribulation and judgment years?
The problem is that thousands of links flow like electricity throughout, making harmonization near impossible.
I have, however, been able to make sense of it all. And yet some relationship may still exist, and that is what I am looking for.

And regarding the Melchezedek priesthood. How did the apostles receive that? Is there a scripture indicating such?
 
LTL said:
So what is the purpose of dividing the Book of Revelation into four sections? And these sections are designed to stand out.

The seals Ch. 5-8(i) with an ending that doubles as a midpoint harmonized to Chapter Fifteen
The trumpets Ch. 8:ii)-11 with a clear ending
The mark of the beast Ch. 12-16 with a clear ending
The fall of Babylon Ch. 17-21 with a clear ending

Are these supposed to be harmonized together for a clearer picture of the tribulation and judgment years?
The problem is that thousands of links flow like electricity throughout, making harmonization near impossible.
I have, however, been able to make sense of it all. And yet some relationship may still exist, and that is what I am looking for.

And regarding the Melchezedek priesthood. How did the apostles receive that? Is there a scripture indicating such?
Click to expand...

And I should include that I did not know the information that you shared, and I thank you for that.
 
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