I'm also interested in what people think about Saul , does anyone think that he was forgiven ?
Was Judas Iscariot saved, or was he not?
- Thread starter Godsgood
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There are varying degrees of sin.
Short message explaining it.<
There are over a hundred sins.
The thought of foolishness is sin.
There are also abominations that deserve the death penalty.
The people who killed my parents are an example.
There are obvious differences in sin.
Are you referring to James 2:10?
10For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all
Yes, both King Saul and Saul/Paul the Apostle went to Heaven.
King Saul was punished by a premature death and went to be with Samuel.
Saul was saved either when he was blinded by the Lord or when he was told what to do by the Lord's servant. He then went on to be the most zealous gospel preacher and was inspired by the Holy Spirit to write half the New Testament.
Hi @Suze ...
I believe God only knows about king Saul...
I think there will be people who believe he was lost and those who believe he was saved...
The answer is not clear although he started of good , but then produced much bad fruit...
Only God knows , so its best to leave it in Gods hands...
How was the specific sin of Judas any different from all other specific sins? I can see many individual leaves on a tree, but all spring from the same root. All individual sins are connected to the exact same problem, so while they vary in detail, in essence they are one and the same.
The uniqueness of the sin does not equate to ...... it was not atoned for at the cross.
The lost will be partially judged by how much light of Truth, and word, and exposure to Jesus they have had.
Unlikely ANYONE that is lost had more direct experience and exposure to Christ than Judas Iscariot.
We didn’t spend three years with Jesus, witness and participate in miracles, and then sell Him out to His enemies for pocket money.
The "actions and subsequent actions" of Judas were sinful. Judas was a sinner, as are all of us.
The works of Judas, good or bad does not decide his fate. The fate of Judas is bound to the issue of election, as is all of mankind.
That is if you believe in election.
IOW, insisting that Judas was saved or not saved because of his works is a works-based gospel.
Judas is a perfect example of 'you don't have to be saved to follow Jesus." Salvation does not happen when you decide to follow Jesus. Salvation happens when Jesus judges you. For most of us it will be "on that day." But for some like Judas, the thief on the cross, the pharisees who blasphemed the Holy Spirit Jesus judged them early. But most of us will be judged/saved on judgement day:
Mat 7: “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’
Jesus is literally describing a day of judgement. Where men like Judas followed Him and even performed many mircles and yet where not saved.
Not all sinners betray Christ to the authorities for 30 pieces of silver or commit suicide. Neither are all sinners called the son of perdition. And you rightly state that Judas, like all, was not saved based on works. But while works don't save an individual, they do evidence spiritual reality or lack thereof.
Your sentence is misleading.
If you believe in election than regardless of:
how many years he spend with Jesus
what he witnessed
what miracles he participated in
who he sold out Jesus to
and for how much
is moot.
Our actions or inactions do not determine our fate, election does.
King Saul , sorry , should have made that clear .
Jesus asked Peter if he loved Him although, in asking three times, it wasn't that Jesus didn't know if Peter loved him. And Jesus knew all along that Iscariot was a pretender. Why didn't he realize the impossibility of doing that with Jesus? What was the impetus of his ultimate despair when he called Jesus 'an innocent man'? Did he believe in his own innocence up to that point? Did he think he was perfect until then? Could he not bear the 'shame' of being less than perfect? Is there anyone that can apart from knowing that Jesus 'despised the shame' and bore it for us?
And that is why I reject the perversion of “election” that you describe.
King Saul is a tough nut to crack.
I personally lean towards him being saved.
God gave him a new heart Scripture says.
The text also says that Samuel told him that he would be with him the next day in Sheol/Hades.
Now, that could mean the bad side of Sheol/Hades.
But Saul’s fear was about losing the battle and being defeated, not so much about being lost eternally.
Maybe he will be among the least in the Kingdom.
Or maybe he is lost. We just don’t know.
Judas is the perfect example one can be saved and choose to follow temptation. No matter his actions he could have repented.
Agree, scripture is silent on his last thoughts .. so why speculate, I cannot see how this is edifying.